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BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/23/2007 2:55 PM
We have a row of fences along a main road that have become an issue. One lady painted her's gray to match her house, one has a redwood stain, one is dark brown, and the others have only replaced broken or rotten boards. It is a hodge podge of colors. I'm all for people weathering proofing their fence, it's better then letting it fall to disrepair, but all the different finishes is rather unappealing. We don't have anything in place in our CCR's except maintaining it and that it has to be board-on-board, and not made of metal. What do you have where you are? And how to we approach the owners to get there fences together?

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202

11/23/2007 4:29 PM
What is the definition of "maintenance" in your bylaws?

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/23/2007 6:35 PM
SusanW1, Under Article VIII - Use Restriction, it states the following: Fence: a. Shall not be contructed of metal b. Shall not be permitted in front yards; c. Shall be of wood construction and consistent in design, scale and materials with existing fences.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202

11/24/2007 5:49 AM
Unless there's more . . . there's no mention of color (specific color and responsiblity to maintain it) - only the required composition and style of the fence, the Board may have no power over what the owners have done with their little piece of the fence!

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901

11/24/2007 6:14 AM
Posted By BarbaraM7 on 11/23/2007 2:55 PM We have a row of fences along a main road that have become an issue. One lady painted her's gray to match her house, one has a redwood stain, one is dark brown, and the others have only replaced broken or rotten boards. It is a hodge podge of colors. I'm all for people weathering proofing their fence, it's better then letting it fall to disrepair, but all the different finishes is rather unappealing. We don't have anything in place in our CCR's except maintaining it and that it has to be board-on-board, and not made of metal. What do you have where you are? And how to we approach the owners to get there fences together? In many cases, prior written approval from the Architctural Controll Committee, Architctural Review Board, etc. is required to make changes to the property. Painting a fence a different color from the original or an approved color would require prior written approval even if the word "fence" is not specified. If you've let this get away from you, it may be hard to deal with at this point but you can stop it from getting worse. You might consider offering to use association funds to paint the side of the fences facing the road a uniform color.

Ron SC

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

11/24/2007 7:47 AM
Barbara, You have 2 options to solve this. Provide the paint for everyone or bite the bullet and transfer the fence painting over to the association for maintenance and painting. Sometimes we make so much work out of a simple issue. I'd go with the association's responsibility for it's care.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/24/2007 11:10 AM
Donna, I like your idea and will pass it on at the next meeting. Can we post pictures on this site? I would like to show you how it looks, but you can probably imagine it already or have something similar in your neighborhood.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/24/2007 11:13 AM
RonaldW, Only one of the residents submitted an Architectural Form years ago, it was the lady who painted her deck and fence gray. And she has maintained it. I like your idea too about the association funds being used to do the work, but the fences are private property, and we can't touch them without the owners approval, and since I just started researching this, it hasn't been discussed with the owners. I will take this idea to the next Board meeting.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/24/2007 11:20 AM
SusanW1, That's what I'm thinking too, but it couldn't hurt to discuss it with the owners. If the Association was willing to pay for the work and supplies, perhaps it could be done. I have a draft of updated guidelines that I am presenting to the Board at the next meeting. Only one of the people on that row of homes actually submitted a request to stain/paint their fence. The others did it on their own, without prior approval, which puts them in violation of Article VI of our CCR's I have been working on the updated guidelines for the past couple of months, it went from 1 page to 10, and it covers the fact that the resident must get prior approval, and that the color has to be approved.

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901

11/24/2007 11:23 AM
Posted By BarbaraM7 on 11/24/2007 11:13 AM RonaldW, Only one of the residents submitted an Architectural Form years ago, it was the lady who painted her deck and fence gray. And she has maintained it. I like your idea too about the association funds being used to do the work, but the fences are private property, and we can't touch them without the owners approval, and since I just started researching this, it hasn't been discussed with the owners. I will take this idea to the next Board meeting. The rest of them are in violation although you really cannot do much about it at this point. Grey is an unusual color for a wooden fence (at least around here). Natural, brown, and dark green are more common colors. Usually, it's best to try to make a fence blend in with the surroundings rather than stand out. I would think that most owners would be receptive to the idea of someone else painting their fence, even if only on one side. Once you get the fences painted, make sure everyone knows that painting a fence a different color needs prior written approval. Then just don't approve it. You have the justification and I think they will understand.

Ron SC

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/25/2007 7:12 AM
BarbaraM7: I have read with interest your many posts re issues in your association and that you are on the Architectural Committee. A word of caution. Its fine to note that ..."the resident must get prior approval, and that the color has to be approved..."; however, you will avoid many future problems if you and Board decide NOW decide on colors which will be appropriate for your community. You could include "fence colors" or color/s for any other area of the unit which will be acceptable (neutral colors). The resident will know what colors they have to work with--otherwise, you will be accused of favoring one resident over another with color choices; or some such problem.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/25/2007 9:45 AM
PaulM, We have an official color chart for shutters, siding, and painted doors. We do not have an official color chart for fence stains/paints. You've given me a good idea to go to the local paint shop and get a chart, then present it to the Board, and then it can be decided what colors are acceptable, then passing this on to the homeowners. Why didn't I think of that? This site really opens the mind to options that are right in front of our faces, but they just hasn't become clear yet. Thanks!!

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/25/2007 10:14 AM
BarbaraM7: To expand a little further on color choices, some communities have a volunteer group who works with the Architectural Committee on "aesthetics" (color choices, ideas on flower bed choices & other plantings, etc.). That could be done by investigating with the paint store and/or landscape designers and then to take a community vote on the most desired. Don't know if you want to go there; it can cause more problems, but it does make for a beautiful appearance and consistency while allowing each resident to be somewhat original within the established guidelines. Good Luck to you.

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901

11/25/2007 12:14 PM
Posted By BarbaraM7 on 11/25/2007 9:45 AM PaulM, We have an official color chart for shutters, siding, and painted doors. We do not have an official color chart for fence stains/paints. You've given me a good idea to go to the local paint shop and get a chart, then present it to the Board, and then it can be decided what colors are acceptable, then passing this on to the homeowners. Why didn't I think of that? This site really opens the mind to options that are right in front of our faces, but they just hasn't become clear yet. Thanks!! Regardless of what colors are acceptable, a row of fences of different styles and/or colors looks pretty bad. I suggest you do what you can to get all these fences to look like one long fence even if the association has to pay. I wouldn't worry too much about the inside of the fences, only what shows from the street.

Ron SC

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/25/2007 2:55 PM
PaulM, Residents plant flowers, etc. in their own personal yards. We do not have a community beautification plan, besides me with my requests to plant trees in open areas, and my flower garden along the VDOT wall (I asked and they said it wasn't a problem). Many of the residents aren't to interested in anything that might entail physical labor. Our Architectural Committee is a committee of one, me. I went to Home Depot today and picked up brochures on exterior stain/paint. I will present this next month at the BOD meeting.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/25/2007 2:57 PM
RonaldW, I couldn't agree more. One lady says it looks like shanty town. I am only one voice, but I'm a pretty loud one. Must come from all that calling for the cows to come home when I was growing up in Nebraska.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/26/2007 3:16 PM
RonaldW, The problem is that the row of house starts with an end unit and finishes with an end unit. The end units have two sides of fence. The first end unit has the gray paint, then the next 3 have nothing, then redwood stained, then dark brown, then nothing. You can almost imagine have out of sync it looks. We would have to get the ones who have already painted their fences (and their matching decks), to agree to painting/staining the portion of their fences that face the street. Some kind of fun we are having now, huh.

MikeS1

Posts:0

11/26/2007 4:00 PM
Barbara, I don't mean to be a stick-in-the-mud, here, but if the fences are NOT on common area land and they are in fact located on the owner's property; then we're now maintaining part of the fencing for "Some?" of the homeowners in the community. The fences are owned by the individual owners and not the HOA? Is this only benefiting a few owners and not others? Are all the affected owners OK with this? Is the rest of the community OK with this. If the fences are owned by each one of the residents, (and not by the HOA), it sounds like there might be some other potential legal issues. You know this reminds me of an identical scenario in FFX City where most of the homes were those crazy earthtones from the 70's. Everyone's rear fence matched their home, but after the fences fell into disrepair, the HOA started bugging the homeowners (Via due Process), to replace the fence sections, but along the way the Architectual committee standardized the fence color stain so that ONLY ONE color could be used and it looks much nicer now. By the Way - In this case, the fences were all owned by the homeowners and were NOT part of common areas or limited common areas/property. It sounds like you have a project on your hands - Good luck.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/26/2007 6:16 PM
MikeS1, Yes, the fences are on personal property. I've updated the 20 year old Architectural Guidelines to reflect any decisions that have been voted on by the BOD in the past, and to create a useable (i.e. readable) guide for the residents to use, both old and new. Now, we just need to get past some pending issues, and vote on these new guidelines, then put them into effect. I believe most of the misunderstandings in architectural issues has been from the lack of output from previous BOD's. One retired Board member said they didn't want people getting ideas. Well, they had ideas anyway, and look how that worked out. Perhaps the fences will just have to remain the way there are for the time being. My next plan is to submit a request to the BOD to plant columnar evergreens along the fences, on Common Ground, as a screen.

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901

11/26/2007 6:45 PM
Posted By MikeS1 on 11/26/2007 4:00 PM Barbara, I don't mean to be a stick-in-the-mud, here, but if the fences are NOT on common area land and they are in fact located on the owner's property; then we're now maintaining part of the fencing for "Some?" of the homeowners in the community. The fences are owned by the individual owners and not the HOA? Is this only benefiting a few owners and not others? ............ First, I didn't suggest "maintaining" the fences, only painting the outside a uniform color. Once that is done, the owners would have to maintain the fence themselves with that color. This is to correct the lack of the ACC requiring a uniform color in the first place. I believe that by correcting an eyesore, this would benefit the entire association and all its members. Much like we and many other associations maintain entranceways that don't belong to individual homeowners.

Ron SC

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

11/27/2007 6:52 AM
As I originally suggested, I feel that the association or ARC did not follow thru on monitoring the fence painting to begin with. Grab the reins and either paint the fence all one color and then as long as the assoc. is required to maintain it, it will remain one color and in much better shape than it is now. To expect that fence to look uniform, it will never happen as long as the owners are required to do it.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/27/2007 7:51 AM
DonnaS, You're right, and here we are trying to help the community by cleaning up past messes that weren't nipped in the bud at the beginning. The fences are owned by the homeowners and they will have to be approached, and it will never happen as long as the owners are required to do the painting, and I fear it will also never look uniform if the past is any indication.

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/27/2007 9:24 AM
BarbaraM7: In re-reading your posts, I am still unclear as to who the fence along the main road belongs to. At one point you state they (fences) are on 'private property' and belong to the unit owners and owners have painted "their portion" different colors. Further, there is a reference in your CC&Rs to fences not being metal, not in front yards and shall be wood, consistent in design, scale and materials. This sounds like two different fence situations... Was the fence, now in question, along the main road erected initially by the developer of the community or did it exist prior to the community? Was the fence along the main road painted initially by the developer of the community? Does the CC&R state that the fence along the main road is on "common" area and is to be maintained/repaired by the association?

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/27/2007 11:59 AM
PaulM, The fences were built by the owners as they moved in to the community, it did not exist prior to them buying the house. The fences belong to them and they were initially plain board-on-board style, most likely treated wood. Over the years they have faded and people have had to replace broken boards. In the last 5 years some people have begun to stain or paint their fences to make them look better. The previous BOD's didn't have a rule on what paint or stain color to use, so people went ahead and did what they liked, the only rules listed in the CCR's that they could not be metal, not in front yards, and shall be wood, etc. The lady with the gray fence and deck asked the prior Board if she could do it and they said yes, not thinking what a hodge-podge that would start, and how bad the fences would look if they didn't stick to one color choice. The fences are not on Common Ground, but within the owners property lines.

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/27/2007 12:26 PM
BarbaraM7: Since the fences were built by the owners, they belong to the owners, and are the property of the owners, I am not certain if or how far the Board can go in determining color or how the fences should look. Presently, your documents do not indicate the fences are 'common area' or the responsibility of the association, so for the association to assume the paint color and do the work does not follow the present document/s. I wonder, if at this juncture, an amendment would be in order to state the fence is to be all one color and to be maintained/repaired by owner (or association (?). The existing statement re fence being "consistent in material' could be applied to paint/stain color. Lots of Luck!

MikeS1

Posts:0

11/27/2007 2:32 PM
Spot on!... Paul!

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