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PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/25/2007 10:28 AM
RonW: ..."Differing opinions from those officers and volunteers would be welcome and a great help. Rants from disgruntled homeowners are no help at all." This site certainly does present differing opinions--many of whom are from those in various roles within an association. We really do want a site that accepts all opinions; it's the democratic way. As far as "rants from disgruntled homeowners being no help at all...", I disagree. However, when a problem is presented as one-sided with sketchy info, it usually is. As we have found out in many poster-situations, there is always more to the story...and perhaps more 'sides', as well.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/25/2007 10:44 AM
RonW, "And for those who keep posting that we need to listen to the homeowners - we ARE homeowners, remember? And we talk to our neighbors and members." Guess there should be no problems then eh Ron?

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

11/25/2007 10:55 AM
Posted By DJ1 on 11/25/2007 10:44 AM RonW, "And for those who keep posting that we need to listen to the homeowners - we ARE homeowners, remember? And we talk to our neighbors and members." Guess there should be no problems then eh Ron? To use an example that is dear to me, some owners have told us that they want to be able to put their trash out earlier than our CC&Rs allow. We have "ballots" out now to amend those CC&Rs to allow this. It seems like not enough members are going to approve this amendment so it will stay as it is. Some want to be able to park four cars in their driveway rather than the three currently allowed. Same situation, it looks like it won't be approved. Now we ARE listening to the members but some aren't going to get their way one way or another. Someone is going to complain somewhere that his/her HOA is making them get rid of a car. If you have a solution, I'd like to hear it even though you are not an officer or even an HOA member. If not, there's really no point in continuing the discussion.

Ron SC

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2496

11/25/2007 10:58 AM
Paul, As usuaal, your mind has that great ability to make reference to some significant facts. It sure would be more productive that whoever posts tells enough of the story that helps in giving an opinion. I rant all the time, I just try to hide it behind something else.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/25/2007 1:36 PM
Kudos to you in this case RonW. As far as suggestion, I'd say if a group of residents is in favour of a particular position sugggest they 'lobby' their neighbours for the change if they want it in order to ensure it gets carried. If it fails then it won't be because of lack of participation. Some will be for, some will be against, and some won't care so they won't reply cause they aren't impacted but getting all to vote should be up to the for or against groups. Posted By RonaldW on 11/25/2007 10:55 AM Posted By DJ1 on 11/25/2007 10:44 AM RonW, "And for those who keep posting that we need to listen to the homeowners - we ARE homeowners, remember? And we talk to our neighbors and members." Guess there should be no problems then eh Ron? To use an example that is dear to me, some owners have told us that they want to be able to put their trash out earlier than our CC&Rs allow. We have "ballots" out now to amend those CC&Rs to allow this. It seems like not enough members are going to approve this amendment so it will stay as it is. Some want to be able to park four cars in their driveway rather than the three currently allowed. Same situation, it looks like it won't be approved. Now we ARE listening to the members but some aren't going to get their way one way or another. Someone is going to complain somewhere that his/her HOA is making them get rid of a car. If you have a solution, I'd like to hear it even though you are not an officer or even an HOA member. If not, there's really no point in continuing the discussion.

Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495

11/26/2007 4:58 AM
I have to say... there are a lot of strong opinions on parking in this thread, along with some other strong opinions that are tangents to the original posts. But that is how "conversations" really begin, start on one topic next thing you know something else pops up.... HOA are not democratic entitities, they are republics - while majority rules on many topics, most issues, powers and votes must first go thru a vetting process called the Board. I think that they down-side to HOA's is that folks know that their NEIGHBORS are the individuals who are charged with making AND enforcing the rules by which they all must live. When a cop/deputy pulls you over on the interstate, chances are you don't know if the officer likes to parade around on Sundays in their Spider-man/Super Friends under-roos. So you are more inclined to RESPECT that authority. Unfortunately in an HOA most of the "abusers" are those personality types who will read thru thirty pages of CC&R's (all stating the rules and and enforcement SOP's) to find ONE line/sentence, that they feel "allows" them to do what caused the infraction action by the HOA, in the first place. I have said before, and it has been stated here many times, the convenience of the ONE outweighs the needs of the ALL - with these folks. A good current example that has been mentioned in this post thread... there are over 10k members here... but yet we ONLY hear from about 1% on a regular basis. I am sure that the other 99% are gaining information and knowledge from reading these posts. Sound familiar....? Isn't that how most HOA's are ran...? Everyone on this site doesn't (IMHO) need to be a board member, committee chair/member, etc - to benefit from the information provided here. I do however believe that everyone on here SHOULD be a member of an HOA/COA, etc. If you are not, or you are an "ex" (former) HOA member, while you may have good intentions, you are not dealing with the levels of issues currently affecting HOA members. Think of it as you are on parole... you got out, now "run Forrest, run...!" Joe, Ron, Robert (et al)... "point of Order..." you are now hereby assigned to community clean-up for one Saturday of each even numbered month that falls on the odd number years for the period that you own in your HOA...

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2496

11/26/2007 5:36 AM
Dear Mr Done, I agree almost completly. However, you will have to ask my neighbor to do the clean up part, I have a Dental appointment on the assigned days. I will check my schedule and see when I can spare an hour, since I work nights, golf days, and drink all evenings, my time is limited. Surely some other owner can do the job as well.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/26/2007 8:33 AM
Jadedone4, I am one of the ones your refer to as on 'parole', probably the only one of 10,000 members who is in the unique situation of being led to believe we were members while we weren't. So why continue to come here, or post? While not bound by the CCR's, I am still a home embedded smack dab in the middle of a HOA and impacted directly by how that HOA operates in terms of if the HOA enforces their CCR's like parking, improvements to the exterior of properties, but most importantly by the people who are members of the HOA, some who when we decided not to join, decided we didn't exist, others who know while we were lead to believe we were members, saw first hand how someone can question a BOD and how they also treated us. HOA talk just listed a new article http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695230156,00.html about homeowners who are in a similar experience to us, where a HOA believes some homeowners may be in the HOA while the HO's think not as a result of things said by a realtor, developer, and/or miscommunication. We learned alot from HOA talk and many posters during our time believing we were members. We have also shared some of the basics of our experience and we continue to learn from current posters here as to how to help others within our messed up subdivision who are, or are not members bound by the CCR's. Posted By Jadedone4 on 11/26/2007 4:58 AM I have to say... there are a lot of strong opinions on parking in this thread, along with some other strong opinions that are tangents to the original posts. But that is how "conversations" really begin, start on one topic next thing you know something else pops up.... HOA are not democratic entitities, they are republics - while majority rules on many topics, most issues, powers and votes must first go thru a vetting process called the Board. I think that they down-side to HOA's is that folks know that their NEIGHBORS are the individuals who are charged with making AND enforcing the rules by which they all must live. When a cop/deputy pulls you over on the interstate, chances are you don't know if the officer likes to parade around on Sundays in their Spider-man/Super Friends under-roos. So you are more inclined to RESPECT that authority. Unfortunately in an HOA most of the "abusers" are those personality types who will read thru thirty pages of CC&R's (all stating the rules and and enforcement SOP's) to find ONE line/sentence, that they feel "allows" them to do what caused the infraction action by the HOA, in the first place. I have said before, and it has been stated here many times, the convenience of the ONE outweighs the needs of the ALL - with these folks. A good current example that has been mentioned in this post thread... there are over 10k members here... but yet we ONLY hear from about 1% on a regular basis. I am sure that the other 99% are gaining information and knowledge from reading these posts. Sound familiar....? Isn't that how most HOA's are ran...? Everyone on this site doesn't (IMHO) need to be a board member, committee chair/member, etc - to benefit from the information provided here. I do however believe that everyone on here SHOULD be a member of an HOA/COA, etc. If you are not, or you are an "ex" (former) HOA member, while you may have good intentions, you are not dealing with the levels of issues currently affecting HOA members. Think of it as you are on parole... you got out, now "run Forrest, run...!" Joe, Ron, Robert (et al)... "point of Order..." you are now hereby assigned to community clean-up for one Saturday of each even numbered month that falls on the odd number years for the period that you own in your HOA...

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/26/2007 8:41 AM
"Everyone on this site doesn't (IMHO) need to be a board member, committee chair/member, etc - to benefit from the information provided here." I forgot to say, I too am one who can and does benefit from the information provided here. I think a member who was a BOD member or committee member but who no longer holds that position can still share information/experiences they learned while holding the post. Same applies to me.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2496

11/26/2007 8:46 AM
Just a thought that occurred to me while reading the above posting by Dj1. I wonder if we would feel they way some do about who posts if a lawyer came on and wanted to post free legal advice and didn't live in an association. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/26/2007 9:09 AM
Or management companies who sponsor HOATalk?

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/26/2007 9:14 AM
...that don't live in an association.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/26/2007 9:27 AM
Oops, wasn't meaning to refer people like Roger, Gloria et al, just the idea Robert suggested that someone who may benefit financially by posting here and who offered to post free advice would not equally be discouraged from posting because of their lack of membership in a HOA as a criteria to do so. (double standard)

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2496

11/26/2007 9:55 AM
Dj1, Don't put words in my words. I never said anything about anyone posting on her for profit, and I would never in any circumstances denigrate, Roger, Gloria, et al. What I said was I just wondered if we would be so quick to complain about who posts here if a lawyer posted and wanted to give free advice. Just a thought, that's all, and now I wish I hadn't mentioned it.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

11/26/2007 10:48 AM
Robert I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, they were my words. I was interpreted your question, "I wonder if we would feel they way some do about who posts if a lawyer came on and wanted to post free legal advice and didn't live in an association." as you just explained. I expanded on it because a lawyer could benefit financially, just as the sponsors might, but that doesn't mean that is the reason they post, or that they should or should not be allowed to post. My choice of the additional example was a poor one but the intent of it was that not all posters are necessarily living in a HOA. Writing doesn't always convey what was meant and the clarifications I made were an attempt to correct my error.

BarbaraM7
(Virginia)

Posts:86

11/26/2007 3:08 PM
RobertR1 and DJ1, I for one would love FREE advice from any lawyer. Not that I would have to heed what he/she says, but FREE, how often would that happen in this life. Again, wasn't this post about parking--need help with wording. It is looking more and more like an online word-sparing match, and my mind is getting tired from the words being hit back and forth.

JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728

11/26/2007 5:03 PM
To all: As far as I'm concerned, and based upon many of your post history, many of us give better advise than any lawyer I've come accross. Our HOA attorney has given interpretation that is so off base we sit back and kick ourselves for deferring. Common sense and reasonableness/good business judgement, a Board read of the gov. docs., and knowledge of local, state, and federal laws, OR the willingness to do the research, are pretty much all you need. Emphasis on the common sense and reasonableness/good business judgement.

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

11/26/2007 10:22 PM
Totally agree with your logic sir. " Thats an amen from the balcony"

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/27/2007 9:57 AM
To Joe/John: A double-Amen from me...

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2496

11/27/2007 1:24 PM
Joe, Paul, and John, I certainly hope that is true. I know the thought to ask an attorney doeessn't appear in my radar as much as it did six months ago. Have a lawyers appointment tomorrow! HaHa, gottcha, this has nothing to do with HOA's.

AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:386

11/28/2007 3:44 PM
Hello All. I've been sitting back and reading all of your comments and debates about everything EXCEPT my original post about needing help with wording for our parking problem. To all of you that stuck with the issue I extend a big thank you! I took your comments to our board and we think we've come up with the wording we need. Now we just have to sit back and wait for the fireworks. As I said, previously, the MAJORITY of the members here asked for this to be done. I won't offend Joe by using the "J" word, but the two "J's" who live here won't be happy because it's always THEM FIRST, and too bad about everyone else. Thanks again, everyone!

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2496

11/28/2007 4:30 PM
Anna, Don't think people are ignoring you because they are people. I agree, we should have stayed on the subject, difficult to do without a censor, and we don't want that. On the other hand if you research this topic (it is very popular, and seldom solved to please all. There is only so much you can do and you will at some time reach a point that you have to conclude, well, that's the best I can do. On the discussion topic page there is a search feature and if you search "parking" you will find 17 pages at least of 30 entrys a page. That's a lot of conversation. I am not belittling your problem at all, it is a "Hot Button". that's for sure. Regards wording, I would try to put it in a part of your rules of conduct that can be easily changed. You work hard, and re-write the words, three weeks later someone decides the words are wrong and should be changed. If you have a specific section maybe we could help, but I am sure you want to be fair to everyone and that is what we try to do, and because you have your finger on the pulse, you can likely do a better job. Again, I'm sorry we haven't been as direct as we all would loike to be and we did get off the track.

AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:386

11/28/2007 5:13 PM
RobertR---I should have said: I've been sitting back and ENJOYING reading....! I love seeing where these posts go. There is a WORLD of insight available just from what people say here! I wasn't complaining! I was just waiting for people to "take a breath" so I could jump back in and give my thanks!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2944

11/28/2007 5:50 PM
Anna, It took 3 pages to finally have someone acknowledge what your original post was asking. I think that we should make better efforts to stay on the subject. It sometimes sounds like a chat room and I don't think that it was meant to do that. As much fun as it is to read some of the far out opinions, we should be sticking to the subject better than we have been because the posters are looking for answers.

MikeS1

Posts:0

11/29/2007 3:58 AM
Donna - That's really not entirely an accurate statement. See the 4th posting on the first page. I hope that Anna was able to use this language which was pulled from an active resolution, which seems to work pretty well.

JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728

11/29/2007 4:48 PM
DonnaS - My reply, the 1st, acknowledged what Anna was asking, in addition to taking the chance and heat for pointing out some infractions. II offered a suggestion on methodology in order for her and her Board to come up with the wording. You see, every association is different and when it comes to parking, often a well developed rule considers the physical layout and the usage patterns of all owners. With all due respect if you are going to be a monitor re-read page one. There are a lot of acknowledgments and helpful suggestions found there in addition to mine.

AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:386

11/30/2007 7:57 AM
Thank you Donna. I ALWAYS appreciate your words of wisdom and suggestions! Keep up the good work!

AlexL1
(Florida)

Posts:162

12/01/2007 6:25 PM
Anna: I have read and re-read the many responses to yourparking problem which is not unique to your area..... It is a problem everywhere. The problem is that I have read and read again but still do not have a good .... very good solution to the parking problem. Perhaps there is none

AlexL1
(Florida)

Posts:162

12/01/2007 6:26 PM
Anna: I have read and re-read the many responses to yourparking problem which is not unique to your area..... It is a problem everywhere. The problem is that I have read and read again but still do not have a good .... very good solution to the parking problem. Perhaps there is none

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