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AnneH1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Hello everyone,
I will try to make it as brief as possible. My mother resides at a condo in FL. She has lived there for 15 years and does own her unit. Last year my daughter left to attend an out of state college. While she was there she was bought a Shih-Tzu puppy. She found she couldn't keep him at the dorm so my mother brought him home with her (at that time we thought it would be temporary until she moved off campus). My mother has a Westie that weighs approx. 18lbs. & the Shih-Tzu weighs about 5lbs. She has had the Shih-Tzu since May 07 and has fallen deeply in love with him and him with her. The two dogs have become best of friends as well. My mother also has stage IV colon cancer. She finds great joy and happiness with these two little guy's. When she isn't at home with the dogs she is at the clinic for many hours receiving chemotherapy at which time the dogs find comfort with each other. Now what my problem is the Condo board has made rules that unit owners are allowed to have two pet's under 20lbs. either 2 cat's or 1 dog and 1 cat. I have pleaded with the board for permission for her to keep both dogs and also provided them with a letter from her Oncologist/Psychiatrist stating they are therapy dog's and detrimental to her health, happiness and well-being. The board said "NO"! I also offered to take the little dog home with me at night and he can stay with her during the day, again their response was "NO". My mother has had no problems or complaint's from neighbors regarding barking or not cleaning up after them. Actually at one of the meetings other unit owners were trying to defend her but the appointed not elected board still said "NO". Now they have told her she has to get rid of him or they will start fining her 25.00 a day up to 1,000.00. I also offered to just pay the 1,000.00 for them to leave her alone and they still said "NO". It's hard enough to go through chemo-therapy to prolong her life, feeling sick, trying to stay positive and then to have hateful people on her case is just to much. All she wants is a little happiness that these two bring her knowing she only has at best 1-2 years to live. Please, any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
AnneH1, if they are "therapy dogs" as designated by the doctors; are they also designated by whatever local health agency? If so, you MAY have a case where the two dogs status could change with regards to the condo's rules (service animals).
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I would just take the Westie home with me and put him on a nutrition and exercise program until he lost 3 pounds.

At which point, both dogs would be "legal."

Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
Michele, the OP stated that the doc's state, one cat and dog, two cats, but nothing about allowing two dogs - even within the weight requirements.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
AnneH1: I find it unreasonable of the Board to create a rule which states that the 2 pets must be 1 cat, 1 dog (sometimes cats and dogs can't live together!).

Since you have proof from the doctor of having 'therapy dogs', as a medical necessity, the Board cannot deny you. It is the same as having therapy equipment (railings) or a special vehicle for your medical needs.

IMHO, any fine imposed will not hold up in court.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
AnneH1......Good Morning.....As an 18 year cancer survivor my heart is out to you and your mother....I did some research in Florida for you and this is the info I found....

Get your animal registered as an Emotional Support Animal, a type of assistive animal (remember that emotional disorders count as disabilities per the American with Disabilities Act) by the Service Animals Registry of America, SARA. Got questions?: e-mail them. **www.elitek9academy.com in Jupiter is affiliated with SARA.**

Especially if you live in Florida, seek assistance from The Advocacy Center for Persons with Disabilities,
800 342-0823.

The above was posted by a FORMER OMBUDSMAN for the Condo Associations of Florida......

I hope this will be of some help for you and your mother and may she find "relief" from these people who are so one sided...But for the Grace of God.......I know I would be lost without the companionship and love of my 3 labrador retrievers...They seem to know when I really need them the most...

Best of luck and let us all know the outcome........And if all else fails...........In florida it seems the only way to get the BOD attention is when you call the local TV station about cases like this......Lots of cases on the internet for Florida....Just google.....companion dogs in condos florida and see what pops up......

LindaC3
RichardD (North Carolina)
Posts: 66
Posted:
First off, I applaud that board for performing their duly elected duties, namely, enforcing the rules. Sometimes it is a rather disgusting chore, but very necessary.

Too many homeowners either neglect to read the rules or just ignore them in hopes they don't apply.
Our covenants state that the homeowner may have 1 cat and a dog of gentle disposition and weighing less than 50 lbs. Now we have a new homeowner that just moved in with 2 dogs. He's laying a guilt trip on the board that they are therapy for him also. I suppose if he had 3 or 4 dogs they would also be necessary for therapy. My point is, why is more than 1 dog necessary? RichardD

AnneH1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Jade & Paul, ty for your advice and compassion.

Linda, ty very much for the information. Is your ca in remission? Yes, these little dogs love her so much & they do know when she isn't feeling well. They stay right by her side.

Richard, your response is one of the reason's our world is so messed up! Have you ever heard of the words compassion, caring or special circumstance? She has lived her for over 15 yrs. served on the board her self. She is sick now and we are asking for special permission considering the situation. As for the board, they pick & choose what rules they want to enforce dependent on their mood or who they are. This just seems to be the hot topic right now. Also, how can a board enforce certian rules when they themselves break rules too!!!!!!!! I can only hope you or someone close to you never is in this kind of situation!
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Richard enjoys his power which often creates situations that generate the negative media about HOAs. Anne, have you tried going to the media with your mother's story? Harold
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Therapy animals and emotional support animals are NOT service animals. To have a service animal(s) protected under the ADA,the person needs to be disabled under the guidelines of the ADA. The service animal needs to be tasks trained to mitigate the disability. These dogs have not been trained to do such tasks, nor do they appear to be therapy dogs, and therapy dogs have no protection under any law that I know of.
Emotional support animals have some acceptance under Fair Housing, check your laws on that and on numbers of ESAs to a person in a house.
Making one "feel better" is not a SD task covered under the ADA.
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
There is a FL organization hoping to change the law

www.petsincondos.org
📎 Attachments (1):
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Anne,

Sorry to say but there is nothing you can do about this rule. I researched Florida law to 1999, and not one case has been won in FL regarding keeping dogs or cats when a rule is laid down in the By-Laws.

There was a case as recently as last summer and the condo owner lost.

They also tried to get the dog listed as a service dog, and a letter from the doctor for medical reasons she should keep the dog; all to no avail.

Is there a friend or relative in a condo nearby that can take one of the dogs? They can still be together during the day, if not at night.

The board cannot fine someone if the dog visits during the day, only if they stay the night. Staying the night determines that they live there.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

I looked up the official AKC dog weights and Westie Bitches are to be 13 to 16 pounds. When we got into an arguement about how to control which dogs were to be allowed into our developement, we went to the internet . The "official " weight" for the breed, according to the AKC was the standard which we use for each breed. My 15 pound westie is allowed and your overweight, 21 pound westie would not be allowed? Just because your's is overweight,that should not have any bearing on it's approval.And besides---WHO IS WEIGHING THE DOGS? Sometimes associations go just over the limits on interpreting their rules. For 1 or 2 pounds,someone has to look at this in another perspective.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Perspective doesn't seem to be a strong point of some boards Donna. Certainly neither compassion. I see a whole new cottage industry for boarding pets overnight to avoid these rules. This is the type fodder which media loves, especially when involving beloved pets. This type of attention hurts all HOAs. Harold
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Why 2 dogs?

Easy answer.

Dogs are social animals (pack animals).

Cats, not so much.

I know many people who have 2 dogs for that reason alone. When they are gone from the house, the dog still has a "companion" to "pack" with.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Exactly Right Mr. Harold. What have we become ?
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JC3 on 11/13/2007 10:53 AM
To have a service animal(s) protected under the ADA,the person needs to be disabled under the guidelines of the ADA.

I would like to clarify that it is the _disabled person_ who has the rights, NOT the animal. The regs need to be followed.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardD on 11/13/2007 5:47 AM
First off, I applaud that board for performing their duly elected duties, namely, enforcing the rules. Sometimes it is a rather disgusting chore, but very necessary.

Too many homeowners either neglect to read the rules or just ignore them in hopes they don't apply.
Our covenants state that the homeowner may have 1 cat and a dog of gentle disposition and weighing less than 50 lbs. Now we have a new homeowner that just moved in with 2 dogs. He's laying a guilt trip on the board that they are therapy for him also. I suppose if he had 3 or 4 dogs they would also be necessary for therapy. My point is, why is more than 1 dog necessary? RichardD


Dear Hanna and HOATalk Posters - Shame on any of you for speaking out against RichardD. Bottom line the Board is upholding what the are required to uphold, simple end of story. Puhleeeeeeeease!! You bought into an association where the rules were the rules and now everyone is supposed to feel sorry because there is a very unfortunate exception, and therefore make an exception? The way it's supposed to work is that Hanna is supposed to request the matter be put on the agenda for discussion and let due process follow. Perhpas the other residents will band together and realize the unrealistic rule and the need to change, etc. As for HaroldS and his encouragement to go to the media, that is IMHO irresponsible and further drama which is what really gives HOA's a bad name, not RichardD's opinions.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Joe and Richard,

Before we jump to the conclusion that the Board is doing its job I think the OP needs to clarify

"Now what my problem is the Condo board has made rules that unit owners are allowed to have two pet's under 20lbs. either 2 cat's or 1 dog and 1 cat".

1. What do the CCR's say?

2. When did the condo board make these rules

etc etc.

We can't assume they are just doing their job, they may have overstepped their authority. I wouldn't want to assume that owners agreed to such and such when they moved in, until we know the above among other things.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
To clarify the distinction I was trying to make,

Boards generally have the power to clarify the CCR's but not make new rules that don't at least have some basis in the CCR's. CCR's vs bylaws.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
DJ1 - I feel that restrictions of pets based upon their weight is the MOST RIDICULOUS RULE IMAGINABLE!! I can't stress and express my feelings enough. However, Hanna is fully aware that weight and number restriction is the rule, whether adopted legally or not. That said, someone needs to live with it and cut the B.S. and sob story on either side.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoeW1 on 11/13/2007 7:37 PM
DJ1 - I feel that restrictions of pets based upon their weight is the MOST RIDICULOUS RULE IMAGINABLE!! I can't stress and express my feelings enough. However, Hanna is fully aware that weight and number restriction is the rule, whether adopted legally or not. That said, someone needs to live with it and cut the B.S. and sob story on either side.

You mean AnneH?

If there are restrictions on pets stipulated in the CCR's and the Board has simply expanded to define them that is one thing, but if the CCR's don't, then that is another thing. Issues like grandfathering could also apply depending on timelines as well.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
What is irresponsible about going to the media? Are you promoting an HOA version of Las Vegas - what happens here stays here?
Must be ashamed of some of our rules. Otherwise, why are we so afraid of media scrutiny? Harold
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
HaroldS - Did you ever stop to think the negative effect that a public display of turmoil may have upon property values? Perhaps you'd like to jump to another conclusion rather than the most obvious which is what future investors may think of an association with drama. If you are willing to trust that the media will get the story right, better your investment than mine.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
I agree with Harold, what is so irresponsible about going to the media? If this is a good rule and it is clearly stated in the documents then there is no story or no issue. Sounds to me like some don't feel it is a good rule but are hiding behind the cloak of it is a rule therefore we must enforce it to the letter. If the board is being responsible and doing nothing wrong then what do they have to fear???

As to the issue at hand, if the board is not willing or denies an appeal of the rule by the homeowner, then the homeowner should seek help from her neighbors and try to get a united front to present to the board to get the rule changed.

To me it is a shame that in what is probably this person's last year o so of life that she has to fight such a petty battle. I certainly hope that when I am near my end and fighting such a horrible illness that my neighbors and friends care more about me than some rule probiting a second dog that weighs a couple of pounds. For those or you who are pro rules no matter what, I guess my opinion differs a little bit from yours and I like to remember the saying treat others as you want to be treated. And I will add that this is just my opinion and not an endorsement or statement or expertise.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Anne:

You stated that the board made the rule, but what do your CCR's state? Rules and Regualations take a back seat to the recorded CCR's. I would like to hear what they say about dogs (pets) and their limits thereof.

My Mother passed away last year with stage 4 cancer and I know her little dog was a source of joy, happiness and companionship. In her last days she didn't reconize her daughters, but she did reconize her dog.

The CCR's are documented not in black and white but in grey, so that each incoming board has the latitude to interpret the CCR's for each circumstance. I believe in rules, but there has to be some leeway for extreme circumstances such as an ailing woman in stage 4 cancer.
DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Florida is loaded with HOAs and condos with these same CCRs: two pets, consisting of one dog and one cat, or two cats. Maybe the thinking is that two dogs in one unit or home will bark to each other all day?! Maybe it was started due to noise issues being prevented? I have no idea. Anyway, it seems that if the board chose to make an exception to this very sad scenario,(which it is) then there will surely be another equally sad scenario owner next in line who also wants an exception. Then the BODs will be in the volunteer business of determining whose sad story warrants exceptions, which is a slippery slope. And once an exception is made, you have opened Pandora's Box.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
DanaA & others: For a Board in FL to make an 'exception' for a 'sad' case may not be the way to go, as you say, but each community certainly has the right to create their documents to suit the needs of the majority of residents. This also includes pet definitions/restrictions.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Paul:

I agree that exceptions may not be the answer, however, a good board realizes a bad rule and will adapt to fit their residents needs. Good point and post!
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Seems Gloria sees the distintion I mentioned. Living within the rules, or working to change them are one thing but if the rules have been drafted by a Board, and if said rules exceed the authority of the Board, that may be another thing! I don't fall for the live with it line Joe and Richard seem to support, UNLESS, that is what the CCR's (members put in place) say vs the Bylaws the Board put in place.
JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288
Posted:
Hey folks back off a minute. 100 percent of the CC Rs in Florida were written by the developer who built the PUD. Not by the HOA. Try and change them they are a train wreck to change. In ours to change just 1 line it takes 90 percent of the members. Do the math 305 member families with 1 vote each. Do the math. Now onto the board they did not write the ccrs they have to by law enforce them FL720 is very direct on that issue. If they choose not to enforce the rules they can be sued for selective enforcement. Please for the love of God dont tell me people would not sue there HOAs or Condo Boards there are more Lawyers in Florida than all of china, japan Germany and England put together so don't go there with me. Sorry mam 1 of the dogs has got to go.
By the way how do you know that her neighbors did not report her. How did you think the Board found out about the 2nd dog? Let me clue you in after 19 years on a BOD I have seen some of the sweetest people come to a BOD Monthly Meeting and eat there neighbors alive with stories beyond your wildest dreams. Or how about they buy the house then come to the next meeting and demand the 60 foot high trees behind there house get cut down. Why they did not see them when they looked at the house to buy it.

I am sorry for the BOD put in this position by this ladies family. Remember her family did this not the BOD. Lets keep the blame game into proper proportion.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
All this talk about MUST FOLLOW THE RULES is fine - if that's what is unilaterally done. Anne tells us her mother's board picks and chooses which rules they want to enforce. Therefore there should be no problem bringing in the media. The board brought it upon themselves by selective enforcement.
HOA demands pet dog of seriously ill and dying resident must go. Story at 10!
Take it to the media Anne.
Harold
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Perhaps it is you JohnM3 who should 'back off'. Anne said "Now what my problem is the Condo board has made rules that unit owners are allowed to have two pet's under 20lbs. either 2 cat's or 1 dog and 1 cat."

IF the board has put in place some new rule, or interpretation thru their bylaws AS OPPOSED to what the CCR's say, it is the BOARD that may have put themselves in this position. Until Anne provides more details it is impossible to say whether the Board is just doing their job, or whether they overstepped by adopting an 'interpretation' which isn't supported by the CCRs.

Quote:
Posted By JohnM3 on 11/14/2007 4:14 PM
Hey folks back off a minute. 100 percent of the CC Rs in Florida were written by the developer who built the PUD. Not by the HOA. Try and change them they are a train wreck to change. In ours to change just 1 line it takes 90 percent of the members. Do the math 305 member families with 1 vote each. Do the math. Now onto the board they did not write the ccrs they have to by law enforce them FL720 is very direct on that issue. If they choose not to enforce the rules they can be sued for selective enforcement. Please for the love of God dont tell me people would not sue there HOAs or Condo Boards there are more Lawyers in Florida than all of china, japan Germany and England put together so don't go there with me. Sorry mam 1 of the dogs has got to go.
By the way how do you know that her neighbors did not report her. How did you think the Board found out about the 2nd dog? Let me clue you in after 19 years on a BOD I have seen some of the sweetest people come to a BOD Monthly Meeting and eat there neighbors alive with stories beyond your wildest dreams. Or how about they buy the house then come to the next meeting and demand the 60 foot high trees behind there house get cut down. Why they did not see them when they looked at the house to buy it.

I am sorry for the BOD put in this position by this ladies family. Remember her family did this not the BOD. Lets keep the blame game into proper proportion.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
This advice from previous post may apply

"RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3243

08/12/2006 12:43 AM Quote Reply
Pat, the CC&Rs supercede the By-laws so the committee member is correct for those cases where the By-laws do not agree with the CC&Rs. By-laws are usually used to define the organizational structure not to address problems. In Colorado By-laws do not have to be filed outside the HOA. Within a couple weeks all member should have been provided a copy of the newly amended By-laws.

It is the Declaration of CC&R's which becomes effective when properly done and filed with the County. This is the controlling document for restrictions and the violations thereof. Are you sure there are different Declarations of CC&Rs for each section of your development? If so, why weren't the Declarations amended to become the same for all sections?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489

08/12/2006 2:36 PM Quote Reply
Pat,

You may have an Article in your Bylaws named INTERPRETATION that reads something like this:

"In the case of any conflict between the Articles of Incorporation and these Bylaws, the Articles shall control; and in the case of any conflict between the Declaration(CC&R's) and these Bylaws, the Declaration shall control."

AnneH1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I want to thank everyone. I am doing alot of research & learning alot from all your comments. My mom still has the dog, so what happens when we reach the max. fee of $1,000.00?
To all the people who think we need to get rid of them, I have offered SEVERAL solution's. I offered to take him home at night & drop him off in the morning. I offered to just pay the max fee right now. Now they want to make a rule NO VISTING ANIMALS.
Like I said before this board picks and chooses rules to enforce. Last night at the meeting they were talking about having to add more lights to the pool area (reg. by law)or they need to make a rule and post a signs "no swimming after dusk". They laughed & made jokes that the pool inspector won't be checking at night so they will just let everone know. AND NONE OF THE BOD'S wanted to sign the paper to send to inspectors, so they let one of the unit owners sign it. They made a rule no feeding the duck's one of the BOD'S still feeds them!
As far as how do I know a neighbor didn't report the dog, well, first of all I asked the board & NO letters have been written! Even if a letter was written it must be done under oath. The unit's above & beside my mothers' unit are vaccant(and have been for many month's).
The BOD'S aren't following proper procedure as far as returning written concern's and following proper procedure before trying to applying fine's.
Here's the real kicker, the 3 previous members & myself are the only one's who ran for the board, so guess what, I'm the new VP,LOL. I am atleast 20 years younger than them so look out!
I have also contacted the media & ADA as suggested by some of you.

Please continue with your comment's until this is final.
Annie
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Hi Annie, I have been reading your topic replies with great interest. I, too, own a condo in Florida. Our original rules said NO PETS. PERIOD. The board a few years back changed the rule to : pets, 15 pounds or less who are 100% INDOOR pets are allowed. So I must ask you---does the little 5 pound dog ever go outside? We have owners here who have small dogs who are trained to "go" on doggie pads. They're specifically made for indoor dogs to do their business. We have owners here who have small dogs and no one even knows it!!! No one ever sees them. If your mom's smaller dog is never seen, why couldn't she just say it's "gone"? I know, I know, people will come after me about ethics and fibbing. But maybe if the dog seems to have "disappeared" all the fuss will die down. Yet at this point (if the media has been notified) it may be too late. It sounds as if you've all been very "upfront" and are working very hard to keep this out in the open and resolved. I wish your family a peaceful resolution. You don't need this stress.
AnneH1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
As far as I can tell the original doc's just state 2 pets. The board further broke them down making the rule 2 cats or 1 cat & 1 dog.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
AnneH1..... Here we go again...another condo taking "written recorded documents" and changing the wording to suit them........Seems to be the rampant thing to do here in FLorida..When will they ever learn... If the recorded docs state simply 2 pets ,,,under what authority are they allowed to then make a RULE stating either 2 cats or 1 dog 1 cat.....I remember awhile back RogerB posted about rules changing or amplifing the recorded docs...maybe he will read this and post to you...Hope your Mother is fairing well....Please remember that all this stress will affect her cancer.....As Norman Cousins tell those of us who survived the big C laughter and positive attitude will see us thru...You are on my C prayer list.......And yes as an 18 yr survivor of advanced cervical cancer... attitude indeed does see us thru...... LindaC3
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Maybe RichardD and JoeW1 will also offer up some useful advice as to you as to what to do when a Board oversteps the CCR's cause so far just telling you to accept whatever they DICTATE just reinforces their incompetence with what they are trying to do and who knows what else they will try to do! It is one thing to expect owners to live by the CCR's that are registered, it is another thing to expect owners to bend to the will of a Board that doesn't know what it is doing.
AnneH1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Linda
yes I know about the stress & pos. attitude. It is very important you are rite, I hear what you are saying & again I thank you! Congradulations on your cure! Thank you for your prayers! xoxo
Annie
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
AnneH1...... I recieved the following info the other day..Not sure if you are in this area of South Florida but the State is sponsoring group meetings with the ombudsman to hear complaints of your nature so they can get their ducks in a row so to speak for the next Legislative Session...Interesting things ARE taking place in Florida with regards to Condos and HOA'S....It's all fine and dandy that we have these statutes to refer to , but if they do not contain any " beef" to back them up then they are basically useless..... Best of Luck and keep us all up to date.....and to all, may you and yours have a wonderful Thanksgiving... LindaC3

FLORIDA CONDOMINIUM OMBUDSMAN CALLS FOR
ANNUAL CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATIONS MEMBER ROUND-UP
IN PEMBROKE PINES
November 15, 2007
Dear Friends and Members,
make sure you make a note on your calendar on this date:
Saturday, December 8, 2007 -- 10:00 A.M. until 1 P.M.
The Florida Condominium Ombudsman Danille Carroll is inviting all owners and interested parties to the ANNUAL CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATIONS MEMBER ROUND-UP at the Broward Community College -- South Campus, 7200 Pines Boulevard, Building 68 in Pembroke Pines.
BarbaraM7 (Virginia)
Posts: 86
Posted:
My sympathies to your situation. Yet, my question is what responsiblity is your daughter taking for buying the dog without checking to see if she could keep it with her Seems rather unfair to her Grandma and Mother to have to bear the rsponsibility for her actions.

In our community we have a lady with asthma and she is allowed to have a window A/C due to her condition, with a Doctor's letter. Any one else in the community can not have the window A/C since everyone has central A/C. I've heard of the Fair Housing Act and Discrimation against Handicap people in such cases as therapy dogs, but the dogs had to registered as "Therapy dogs".
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraM7 I've heard of the Fair Housing Act and Discrimation against Handicap people in such cases as therapy dogs, but the dogs had to registered as "Therapy dogs".

Therapy dogs do NOT have any special legal status. NO dog/animal does.
The _qualified person with a disability_ (QPWD)(as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act) has the right to have animals that have been trained to do tasks that mitigate their disabilities. These trained animals are called service animals, or assistant animals, or perhaps seeing-eye, guide, hearing, or seizure animals.
QPWD's can take their Service animals (almost) anyplace the public can go. People with ESA's are granted certain protections under the Fair Housing Act. People with ESA's do NOT have the right (under the ADA) to take the ESA everyplace.
People with therapy animals have no such rights of any kind. They simply take their animals to various places to offer comfort, help, stimulation, to various people or groups: Nursing homes, hospitals, etc.
A therapy dog is a pet, and the owner is not granted the protection of the ADA or FHA.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
To all... Have we become a society that is so self absorbed in following the rules that along the way we forget about compassion for our fellow neighbor ? Who amongst in our daily lives hasnt broke a rule along the way. Exceeding the speed limit... having 15 items in the 10 item checkout line..etc.....We seem to forget that Rules and Laws were designed to maintain order not create chaos....
Annes Mother dog according to the posts is not a nuisance...This is just another example of " Condo Commando" mentality so prevalent here in florida... Condos associations are always in the news down here in Florida for their flagrant disregard of the the rules.............
As we approach this Holiday Season may we all look deep into our hearts and souls and be thankful for we have and pray for those that struggle with the everyday...
But for the Grace of God go I , as my Mother always told us kids growing up
May Annes Condo Association have a heart...make an exception to the rule and allow her Mother to have a peaceful resolve to this ordeal.....
LindaC3
BarbaraM7 (Virginia)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Has the community as a whole been approached? The Board is elected by the residents that live there, so the residents should have the decision to make changes or exceptions to their rules in this case, or am I wrong here that the rules of an HOA are written in stone. Let the people speak!
AnneH1 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Barb,
funny you should ask, In a very humble way I asked the Pres. if I/we could get a petition signed by all the units owners in regards to this situation. Her response was "feel free to do so you can have me recalled too it won't hurt my feelings". You see, I feel Im dealing with not only heartless people but ingnorant.
BarbaraM7 (Virginia)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Anne, The response of your President is childish. Put the petition in motion, get Grandma involved and let the Democratic process begin. We'd all be living in flats and having bangers and hash for breakfast if the guys who signed the Declaration of Independence bent under "Imperial" rule. Sounds like the President's feeling have already been hurt because the association hasn't presented her with her crown.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Anne:

When I replied to your post I asked the question; "What do your CCR's state" Now I finally see that the CCR's say 2 pets and that they do not distinguish between dogs or cats, just 2 pets.

The rule that the BOD made up falls behind the CCR's, it is the recorded instrutment that stands up in court. Tell the president that the rules of an HOA is not to change the CCR's but is to follow them. If they change them its called an amendment and must be voted upon by the majority of membership.

Rules are to set policy and proceedures in accordance with the CCR's.
JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288
Posted:
Dear DJ1; The point I was trying to make was this. All-most all CCRs inthe HOAs are written by the developer not the Board. I was trying to tell you that.
Further this is why I have stated previously is this site for HOAs or condos and cause different assocs have unique problems.

Reference the Omnibudsman its a class a political joke. Keep in mind when you raise your hands to speak first question are you in a condo answer no a hoa . They will telll you sorry you cant speak. Been there before. Then without talking to the other parties ie the BODs they make rules then you have the disaster my community is in cause we cannot enforce code violations.
Contray to popular belief not all BODs are commandos just some. We got 57 different BODs in my city and they all coexist okay

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
I have no problem with your latter point John, but you also said "I am sorry for the BOD put in this position by this ladies family. Remember her family did this not the BOD."

The BOD put themselved in this position and caused the problem when they made a rule of 1cat/1dog vs the CRR's that allow 2 pets.

The Lady has 2 pets as the CCR's allow. She didn't cause the conflict.

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