Board denies 2nd dog

Hello everyone,
I will try to make it as brief as possible. My mother resides at a condo in FL. She has lived there for 15 years and does own her unit. Last year my daughter left to attend an out of state college. While she was there she was bought a Shih-Tzu puppy. She found she couldn't keep him at the dorm so my mother brought him home with her (at that time we thought it would be temporary until she moved off campus). My mother has a Westie that weighs approx. 18lbs. & the Shih-Tzu weighs about 5lbs. She has had the Shih-Tzu since May 07 and has fallen deeply in love with him and him with her. The two dogs have become best of friends as well. My mother also has stage IV colon cancer. She finds great joy and happiness with these two little guy's. When she isn't at home with the dogs she is at the clinic for many hours receiving chemotherapy at which time the dogs find comfort with each other. Now what my problem is the Condo board has made rules that unit owners are allowed to have two pet's under 20lbs. either 2 cat's or 1 dog and 1 cat. I have pleaded with the board for permission for her to keep both dogs and also provided them with a letter from her Oncologist/Psychiatrist stating they are therapy dog's and detrimental to her health, happiness and well-being. The board said "NO"! I also offered to take the little dog home with me at night and he can stay with her during the day, again their response was "NO". My mother has had no problems or complaint's from neighbors regarding barking or not cleaning up after them. Actually at one of the meetings other unit owners were trying to defend her but the appointed not elected board still said "NO". Now they have told her she has to get rid of him or they will start fining her 25.00 a day up to 1,000.00. I also offered to just pay the 1,000.00 for them to leave her alone and they still said "NO". It's hard enough to go through chemo-therapy to prolong her life, feeling sick, trying to stay positive and then to have hateful people on her case is just to much. All she wants is a little happiness that these two bring her knowing she only has at best 1-2 years to live. Please, any advice will be greatly appreciated.

I would just take the Westie home with me and put him on a nutrition and exercise program until he lost 3 pounds.

At which point, both dogs would be "legal."

AnneH1: I find it unreasonable of the Board to create a rule which states that the 2 pets must be 1 cat, 1 dog (sometimes cats and dogs can't live together!).

Since you have proof from the doctor of having 'therapy dogs', as a medical necessity, the Board cannot deny you. It is the same as having therapy equipment (railings) or a special vehicle for your medical needs.

IMHO, any fine imposed will not hold up in court.

First off, I applaud that board for performing their duly elected duties, namely, enforcing the rules. Sometimes it is a rather disgusting chore, but very necessary.

Too many homeowners either neglect to read the rules or just ignore them in hopes they don't apply.
Our covenants state that the homeowner may have 1 cat and a dog of gentle disposition and weighing less than 50 lbs. Now we have a new homeowner that just moved in with 2 dogs. He's laying a guilt trip on the board that they are therapy for him also. I suppose if he had 3 or 4 dogs they would also be necessary for therapy. My point is, why is more than 1 dog necessary? RichardD

Richard enjoys his power which often creates situations that generate the negative media about HOAs. Anne, have you tried going to the media with your mother's story? Harold

There is a FL organization hoping to change the law

www.petsincondos.org

I looked up the official AKC dog weights and Westie Bitches are to be 13 to 16 pounds. When we got into an arguement about how to control which dogs were to be allowed into our developement, we went to the internet . The "official " weight" for the breed, according to the AKC was the standard which we use for each breed. My 15 pound westie is allowed and your overweight, 21 pound westie would not be allowed? Just because your's is overweight,that should not have any bearing on it's approval.And besides---WHO IS WEIGHING THE DOGS? Sometimes associations go just over the limits on interpreting their rules. For 1 or 2 pounds,someone has to look at this in another perspective.

Why 2 dogs?

Easy answer.

Dogs are social animals (pack animals).

Cats, not so much.

I know many people who have 2 dogs for that reason alone. When they are gone from the house, the dog still has a "companion" to "pack" with.

I would like to clarify that it is the _disabled person_ who has the rights, NOT the animal. The regs need to be followed.

Joe and Richard,

Before we jump to the conclusion that the Board is doing its job I think the OP needs to clarify

"Now what my problem is the Condo board has made rules that unit owners are allowed to have two pet's under 20lbs. either 2 cat's or 1 dog and 1 cat".

1. What do the CCR's say?

2. When did the condo board make these rules

etc etc.

We can't assume they are just doing their job, they may have overstepped their authority. I wouldn't want to assume that owners agreed to such and such when they moved in, until we know the above among other things.

DJ1 - I feel that restrictions of pets based upon their weight is the MOST RIDICULOUS RULE IMAGINABLE!! I can't stress and express my feelings enough. However, Hanna is fully aware that weight and number restriction is the rule, whether adopted legally or not. That said, someone needs to live with it and cut the B.S. and sob story on either side.

What is irresponsible about going to the media? Are you promoting an HOA version of Las Vegas - what happens here stays here?
Must be ashamed of some of our rules. Otherwise, why are we so afraid of media scrutiny? Harold

I agree with Harold, what is so irresponsible about going to the media? If this is a good rule and it is clearly stated in the documents then there is no story or no issue. Sounds to me like some don't feel it is a good rule but are hiding behind the cloak of it is a rule therefore we must enforce it to the letter. If the board is being responsible and doing nothing wrong then what do they have to fear???

As to the issue at hand, if the board is not willing or denies an appeal of the rule by the homeowner, then the homeowner should seek help from her neighbors and try to get a united front to present to the board to get the rule changed.

To me it is a shame that in what is probably this person's last year o so of life that she has to fight such a petty battle. I certainly hope that when I am near my end and fighting such a horrible illness that my neighbors and friends care more about me than some rule probiting a second dog that weighs a couple of pounds. For those or you who are pro rules no matter what, I guess my opinion differs a little bit from yours and I like to remember the saying treat others as you want to be treated. And I will add that this is just my opinion and not an endorsement or statement or expertise.

Florida is loaded with HOAs and condos with these same CCRs: two pets, consisting of one dog and one cat, or two cats. Maybe the thinking is that two dogs in one unit or home will bark to each other all day?! Maybe it was started due to noise issues being prevented? I have no idea. Anyway, it seems that if the board chose to make an exception to this very sad scenario,(which it is) then there will surely be another equally sad scenario owner next in line who also wants an exception. Then the BODs will be in the volunteer business of determining whose sad story warrants exceptions, which is a slippery slope. And once an exception is made, you have opened Pandora's Box.

Paul:

I agree that exceptions may not be the answer, however, a good board realizes a bad rule and will adapt to fit their residents needs. Good point and post!

Hey folks back off a minute. 100 percent of the CC Rs in Florida were written by the developer who built the PUD. Not by the HOA. Try and change them they are a train wreck to change. In ours to change just 1 line it takes 90 percent of the members. Do the math 305 member families with 1 vote each. Do the math. Now onto the board they did not write the ccrs they have to by law enforce them FL720 is very direct on that issue. If they choose not to enforce the rules they can be sued for selective enforcement. Please for the love of God dont tell me people would not sue there HOAs or Condo Boards there are more Lawyers in Florida than all of china, japan Germany and England put together so don't go there with me. Sorry mam 1 of the dogs has got to go.
By the way how do you know that her neighbors did not report her. How did you think the Board found out about the 2nd dog? Let me clue you in after 19 years on a BOD I have seen some of the sweetest people come to a BOD Monthly Meeting and eat there neighbors alive with stories beyond your wildest dreams. Or how about they buy the house then come to the next meeting and demand the 60 foot high trees behind there house get cut down. Why they did not see them when they looked at the house to buy it.

I am sorry for the BOD put in this position by this ladies family. Remember her family did this not the BOD. Lets keep the blame game into proper proportion.

Perhaps it is you JohnM3 who should 'back off'. Anne said "Now what my problem is the Condo board has made rules that unit owners are allowed to have two pet's under 20lbs. either 2 cat's or 1 dog and 1 cat."

IF the board has put in place some new rule, or interpretation thru their bylaws AS OPPOSED to what the CCR's say, it is the BOARD that may have put themselves in this position. Until Anne provides more details it is impossible to say whether the Board is just doing their job, or whether they overstepped by adopting an 'interpretation' which isn't supported by the CCRs.

I want to thank everyone. I am doing alot of research & learning alot from all your comments. My mom still has the dog, so what happens when we reach the max. fee of $1,000.00?
To all the people who think we need to get rid of them, I have offered SEVERAL solution's. I offered to take him home at night & drop him off in the morning. I offered to just pay the max fee right now. Now they want to make a rule NO VISTING ANIMALS.
Like I said before this board picks and chooses rules to enforce. Last night at the meeting they were talking about having to add more lights to the pool area (reg. by law)or they need to make a rule and post a signs "no swimming after dusk". They laughed & made jokes that the pool inspector won't be checking at night so they will just let everone know. AND NONE OF THE BOD'S wanted to sign the paper to send to inspectors, so they let one of the unit owners sign it. They made a rule no feeding the duck's one of the BOD'S still feeds them!
As far as how do I know a neighbor didn't report the dog, well, first of all I asked the board & NO letters have been written! Even if a letter was written it must be done under oath. The unit's above & beside my mothers' unit are vaccant(and have been for many month's).
The BOD'S aren't following proper procedure as far as returning written concern's and following proper procedure before trying to applying fine's.
Here's the real kicker, the 3 previous members & myself are the only one's who ran for the board, so guess what, I'm the new VP,LOL. I am atleast 20 years younger than them so look out!
I have also contacted the media & ADA as suggested by some of you.

Please continue with your comment's until this is final.
Annie

As far as I can tell the original doc's just state 2 pets. The board further broke them down making the rule 2 cats or 1 cat & 1 dog.

Maybe RichardD and JoeW1 will also offer up some useful advice as to you as to what to do when a Board oversteps the CCR's cause so far just telling you to accept whatever they DICTATE just reinforces their incompetence with what they are trying to do and who knows what else they will try to do! It is one thing to expect owners to live by the CCR's that are registered, it is another thing to expect owners to bend to the will of a Board that doesn't know what it is doing.

AnneH1...... I recieved the following info the other day..Not sure if you are in this area of South Florida but the State is sponsoring group meetings with the ombudsman to hear complaints of your nature so they can get their ducks in a row so to speak for the next Legislative Session...Interesting things ARE taking place in Florida with regards to Condos and HOA'S....It's all fine and dandy that we have these statutes to refer to , but if they do not contain any " beef" to back them up then they are basically useless..... Best of Luck and keep us all up to date.....and to all, may you and yours have a wonderful Thanksgiving... LindaC3

FLORIDA CONDOMINIUM OMBUDSMAN CALLS FOR
ANNUAL CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATIONS MEMBER ROUND-UP
IN PEMBROKE PINES
November 15, 2007
Dear Friends and Members,
make sure you make a note on your calendar on this date:
Saturday, December 8, 2007 -- 10:00 A.M. until 1 P.M.
The Florida Condominium Ombudsman Danille Carroll is inviting all owners and interested parties to the ANNUAL CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATIONS MEMBER ROUND-UP at the Broward Community College -- South Campus, 7200 Pines Boulevard, Building 68 in Pembroke Pines.

Therapy dogs do NOT have any special legal status. NO dog/animal does.
The _qualified person with a disability_ (QPWD)(as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act) has the right to have animals that have been trained to do tasks that mitigate their disabilities. These trained animals are called service animals, or assistant animals, or perhaps seeing-eye, guide, hearing, or seizure animals.
QPWD's can take their Service animals (almost) anyplace the public can go. People with ESA's are granted certain protections under the Fair Housing Act. People with ESA's do NOT have the right (under the ADA) to take the ESA everyplace.
People with therapy animals have no such rights of any kind. They simply take their animals to various places to offer comfort, help, stimulation, to various people or groups: Nursing homes, hospitals, etc.
A therapy dog is a pet, and the owner is not granted the protection of the ADA or FHA.

Has the community as a whole been approached? The Board is elected by the residents that live there, so the residents should have the decision to make changes or exceptions to their rules in this case, or am I wrong here that the rules of an HOA are written in stone. Let the people speak!

Anne, The response of your President is childish. Put the petition in motion, get Grandma involved and let the Democratic process begin. We'd all be living in flats and having bangers and hash for breakfast if the guys who signed the Declaration of Independence bent under "Imperial" rule. Sounds like the President's feeling have already been hurt because the association hasn't presented her with her crown.

Dear DJ1; The point I was trying to make was this. All-most all CCRs inthe HOAs are written by the developer not the Board. I was trying to tell you that.
Further this is why I have stated previously is this site for HOAs or condos and cause different assocs have unique problems.

Reference the Omnibudsman its a class a political joke. Keep in mind when you raise your hands to speak first question are you in a condo answer no a hoa . They will telll you sorry you cant speak. Been there before. Then without talking to the other parties ie the BODs they make rules then you have the disaster my community is in cause we cannot enforce code violations.
Contray to popular belief not all BODs are commandos just some. We got 57 different BODs in my city and they all coexist okay