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Subject: Use of Clubhouse Ballroom

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KenR1
(New Jersey)

Posts:1

04/28/2006 10:01 AM
In our community the Board approved a request allowing any homeowner to have a social event in the clubhouse at any time it is not reserved. As an example, if a group has been using the pool during a particular day than they are allowed to have a social event such as a pizzi party without other residents being permitted to participate. In effect, as long as the ballroom has not been reserved, than a group may reserve it (first come first served for their individual party thereby not having to use their own homes. Many homeowners feel that by opening up the ballroom in this fashion will put undue wear and tear on the ballroom. Any other community allow such free use of their ballrooms?

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

04/28/2006 11:47 AM
I applaud your board for "allowing" its members to use common property. Why is this a problem? I assume there are guidelines for cleaning up after themselves. As for wear and tear, this should be covered by your maintenace budget and reserves. Why have and pay for this facility if it can't be used? Harold

DavidF
(Texas)

Posts:8

04/28/2006 12:00 PM
I couldn't agree more. This is part of the "Common Areas", accessible to ALL members, paid for with their dues money, and yes, it will get "wear and tear" again, it's what the dues are for. To offset some of the additional expenses, make sure you have specific guidelines about usage, breakage, and cleanup. Perhaps require a refundable/partially refundable deposit. If some specific areas start needing more attention or repair, example: a lot of teenage birthday parties, and the audio equipment is used a lot, and these items begin to need repair more often, then you can start charging a "rental fee" for the use of the extra equipment. Also, check your documents. Our CC&R's allow for setting and assessing usage fees for use of common areas. For the most part, we don't charge any extra fees. Large groups however, are charged for the extra life guards that we are required to bring in. -david

JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412

04/28/2006 12:33 PM
I too agree with Harold... what is the point in having them if you cannot enjoy them! It is one of the reasons we chose to live in this type of neighborhood. We have a small clubhouse and have decided that a $25 deposit will be required. If the room is not left in the condition in which it was found, the deposit will not be returned and considered a cleaning fee. If you charge a usage fee or rent the space, then you may be subjected to the ADA and other such laws.

DavidF
(Texas)

Posts:8

04/28/2006 2:45 PM
Posted By JulieS on 04/28/2006 12:33 PM If you charge a usage fee or rent the space, then you may be subjected to the ADA and other such laws. You might want to check on your specific local and State laws. Our attorney advised us that we did NOT have to comply with ADA because Association Common Areas are private facilities, Members only, not for public access. We had a homeowner complain that the pool was not ADA compliant and they demanded that we accommodate them. We referred to the attorney, who wrote the homeowner our response. The homeowner did attempt to sue, but nothing ever happened. Our attorney told us that the only attorneys in Harris County (Texas) that would have filed the case, most of us could not have afforded.

JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412

04/28/2006 3:02 PM
Being non-profit is one thing but once you start charging fees to use the property, which can be considered income, then you may need to become ADA compliant, etc., per our attorney in GA. We were told that as long as we do not charge then the laws are not applicable.

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

04/29/2006 5:59 AM
We have a large clubhouse with restrooms and an entrance allowing access into our outdoor swimming pool. The clubhouse has a pool table, ping pong table, shuffle board, dart boards, and air hockey game. We have found it necessary to lock the game pieces up or they disappear. Our members bring their own equipment unless there is a social event occuring and the Social director is available to open up the game equipment. Our clubhouse is equipped with a kitchen and propane barbecue and there is also a sauna. Both restrooms have showers. In the past we found members using the sauna for drying their laundry (?) and our showers for daily bathing (?) while construction was going on at their homes. (We do not allow camping or travel trailers in our community except for a seven day visit by a guest or family member or during the construction period.) The biggest expense for the clubhouse and pool is propane heat and we live in the Pacific Northwest. We have occasionally rented our clubhouse out to private events but grapple with the fairness of restricting access to all our members since their dues pay for its existence.

EdR
(Texas)

Posts:170

04/30/2006 7:44 AM
Here's a good one to ponder. Our HOA has a clubhouse, pool, two tennis courts and bathrooms at each (two). The owners/members of the assn. are allowed to use the clubhouse twice a year with only a deposit down ($100) fully refunded if no damage. We have a cleaning person who cleans every Monday at $70 a week (all bathrooms, clubhouse-kitchen, etc.)keeps bathrooms stocked with tissue, etc. After two uses per year, you pay a $25 fee for the usage that is kept by the assn. The problem I have with this is that our facilities are used mostly by outsiders who pay NOTHING. The other members have tennis leagues who play here with them and no on pays anything; if you go to use the court, you can't get on it because they are having a tournament and there may be two assn. members and 48 outsiders. The pool is overtaken by swim team members (we've determined 1/3 are from outside) that pay nothing and if someone on the board is a ST advocate, that person will shut the pool down to members in order for ST to practice or have a meet; in fact the whole month of May daily is ST practice and the owners cannot use the pool except for weekends until after Memorial weekend (this is Texas--it's hot enough to use the pool NOW). Then they've allowed Boyscouts, G-scouts, church groups, the local ladies' club and of course swim team to use our clubhouse without any deposit and with no $25 fee on third use if they are with an assn. member. Although I can see the "guest" aspect, there appears nothing that the other owners can do to have equal time or fairness and these people become HOSTILE if you bring the subject of it up. This is why that the best arrangement I've ever experienced with HOAs was in Texas, northwest of Houston, in a subdivision where they charged $200 for assessments per year which was for common area maintenance (CAM--landscaping, trimming, etc.), garbage pickup and maybe streetlights. The clubhouse, pool and tennis courts was run separately such as a country club and it was $500 a year. You be from outside of the assn. and use it and if you had a pool you probably didn't want to use it. It worked out great because we did't pay for what others were keeping us from using. I wish my current assn. would go this route--then I wouldn't care how many used up the facilities that I'm paying for. EdR

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

04/30/2006 10:06 AM
Very sad post Ed. I would not be quiet or enjoy paying fees to provide facilities for outsiders. The first time I was turned away from using the pool because an outside swim team is practicing, you-know-what would hit the fan. How can they keep you out? It is obviously the board who is allowing them to commandeer your facilities. If there are enough unhappy residents, you need to remove this board and replace it with "resident oriented" board members. What a crock. Harold

JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412

05/01/2006 10:27 AM
Our amenities are for members and their guests only. We do not rent anything to non-members. We don't want the members paying for additional wear & tear on our amenities or the increased liability risk. At no time is an area closed or restricted to members of the association.

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