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RobertG
(Arizona)

Posts:396

04/26/2006 8:01 AM
Do any of you allow members to know which homes have violations? I am constantly asked why nothing is done about Mr Jones that has weeds in his yard. However, we have been working through violation process and Mr Jones has been notified many times. However, the rest of the homeowners never know this and think nothing is being done. What solutions have you implemented to help the community know something is happening, just not resolved yet?

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

04/26/2006 9:21 AM
Since violations are between the homeowner and the association and may lead to monetary dealings I would think it is in the best interests of all involved to keep the nature of things private. However, I think the community needs to know when situations or events occur and the association has acted in the community's best interest. This can be done without the naming of names however.

RobertG
(Arizona)

Posts:396

04/26/2006 10:54 AM
The problem is that if you just say the house at 123 N Elm street have been cited, then in effect, you have named the person.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

04/26/2006 12:05 PM
Robert, beyond advising people of the Rules we place notices of a general nature in the newsletters. These notices address common violations and let the owners know they are handled in accordance with the procedures outlined in Rules & Regs. If an owner contacts us to find out what has been done about a specific problem, they are advised of the history and told they are welcome to come view the records. This is information is always available to homeowners unless there is a law suit involved.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

MikeJ
(Florida)

Posts:9

04/26/2006 4:35 PM
If you are in Florida, the Florida Statutes allow members to look at all Association records. You may let the member know they can look at the records and see that violations are being addressed.

LisaS
(Illinois)

Posts:339

04/27/2006 2:52 PM
We are asked all the time why 'nothing ' is being done about violations. Our violation process per CCr's include certified letter, more letters, fines, etc. It is not an instant result! I always state that the matter has been addressed on 'this' date, and that it is still in process, or homeowner has complied, or we are pursuing the matter. I also advise that the records are available for review by appointment.

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

04/28/2006 8:37 AM
My reply does not imply our association would indicate the address in the 'naming' of the violation. We simply say the violation or violations are being addressed through our policies and procedures. However even though WA state law does state association records are to be made available to all members you might check the US privacy act which supersedes these state laws. We do not allow any member access to the following association records: AR aging reports Individual Lot files, except to the owner(s) of the lot Legal files

LuciusD
(Colorado)

Posts:139

04/29/2006 2:43 PM
Why would you want to keep the process secret? All owners have a right to know all the details. Who, what, when, where, etc. Besides that, it is in the best interests of those cited, for the process to be entirely open. If the process is kept secret, it may very well be because the process is not being conducted properly. Perhaps an abusive board or committee would rather not have the membership know they are taking shortcuts and failing to follow due process.

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

04/29/2006 2:59 PM
Privacy laws are not to be taken lightly, especially when violations and fines are involved that could lead to legal actions. Good, decent Boards who follow well-thought out policies and procedures and don't name the violators to their association members are not neccesarily acting deceitfully.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

04/29/2006 9:57 PM
you should also check your state laws about open meetings, and the right to public access to your documents. If your HOA is a corporation, you may have to follow certain laws regarding public records, open meetings, making certain records available, etc.. it can be very complicated, so research well.

LuciusD
(Colorado)

Posts:139

04/30/2006 8:31 PM
SwanB, What make you think violators are entitled to any sort of privacy? Are owners not more entitled to total disclosure of association business than violators are entitled to secrecy?

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

04/30/2006 9:20 PM
As a Board member I am working for every member in the association, including the member who may occasionally violate a rule. I believe repeat offenders should be dealt with quickly and harshly and with a fine schedule that curtails the tendency. I also believe the membership should be made aware of the types of violations that are occuring and the steps being taken to deal with them. However I still don't see why it is necessary to point the finger and name names. This seems like playground tactics and unnecessary when looking at the big picture. Shaming someone doesn't make them stop, hurting them in the pocketbook does. I am now speaking on a personal level as a single Board member of our association who has also been the Violations Director for a year. My approach as Violations Director and the previous Violations Director worked very well in our association. Previously our members were feeling targeted and alienated in the process. A complaint I heard was the complete story wasn't sought out before a fine was levied and then the fine was oftentimes having to be rescinded, once both sides of the story were heard. I ask you, in this type of case, do you think it would be fair to name the party or parties involved to all the association members? Especially in a society with litigation on its mind as ours is?

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

04/30/2006 9:24 PM
Our state laws are adhered to very carefully and we have researched this. Our meetings are open meetings and our records are open to the association members to the extent the law requires. Rest assured, we are not a Board who is attempting to hide anything from any of our members. We are a Board who has worked hard to raise the level of integrity and standard back up from a Board with numerous hidden agendas and disregard for our bylaws and cc&r's.

LuciusD
(Colorado)

Posts:139

05/01/2006 6:36 PM
Then every owner is entitled to complete and detailed access to all enforcement actions. Enforcement is simply not a legitimate privacy issue.

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

05/02/2006 9:35 AM
It seems I took some hits for our association when I posted we did not allow our members access to our Accounts Receivable Aging (AR aging reports) or publish the names of our violators. Our reason being that violations lead to fines which lead to debt. I was surprised by the implied accusations from the posts and curious because our basis for not offering our members the AR aging reports is based on the wording of the Federal Trade Commission's Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and the fact that a debtor may not publicize a list of people owing them money which is what an AR aging list is. We believe we are following the rules of the US Govt. Please correct us if we are wrong. We are not doing this to be underhanded or hide things from our membership.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

05/02/2006 10:55 AM
I don't think anyone has said they publicize. States have laws which allow access to view and copy most data in HOA files. Following is a Colorado HOA Rules & Regs example: ------------------------------------------------ Rules and Regulations on Inspection and Copying of Association Records The records of the Association shall be reasonably available for inspection and copying during normal working hours to a Unit Owner, or their appointed representative, in response to their good faith request for a proper Association purpose. The Association may withhold records such as those protected by attorney-client privilege and information which might be used for soliciting purposes. No owner shall disclose Association information which can be used for soliciting purposes. Privacy concerns, however, are narrowly construed. For example, despite what might be embarrassing to a homeowner, delinquent account information can not be withheld from an Owner if the request is made in good faith and for a proper purpose. The Owner shall submit a written request to the Registered Agent providing a) Name, b) Address, c) Date, d) purpose, e) Specific records for which copies are requested, f) Specific records for which only onsite review under supervision are requested. Upon receipt of a request the Agent shall contact the Owner to schedule a meeting within five business days and advise on the cost involved. The Association shall disclose certain information to all Unit Owners annually and to an Owner when selling of a Unit. Disclosure of information may be accomplished by various means: (1) maintaining a binder at the Registered Agent’s office; (2) sending by E-mail upon request; (3) posting on an internet web page with accompanying notice of the web address via first-class mail or E-mail; (4) first-class mail; and (5) personal delivery. Information which shall be disclosed includes: a) The name of the Association; the name of the Association’s designated Agent and Management Company, if any; physical address and phone number for both the Association and the designated Agent and Management Company, if any; and if the Association address, designated Agent, or Management Company changes then Owners shall be advised within 90 days; b) The Declaration and amendments to the Declaration with the initial recorded date, and reception number or book and page; c) The Articles of Incorporation and amendments thereto; current Bylaws; and all current Rules and Regulations; d) The date the fiscal year commences; operating and reserve budgets for the current fiscal year; most recent Annual financial statements including a Balance Sheet and Income Statement; and report on results of any financial review or audit preceding the current annual disclosure; e) The current regular assessment and special assessments, if any; f) A list of all Association Insurance policies, including Property, General Liability, Directors and Officers Liability, and Fidelity. Such list shall include the Company and Agent’s names, Policy limits, deductibles, additional named insureds, and expiration dates; g) Minutes of Member and Board meetings for the last year; and h) Responsible Governance Policies, which shall include maintaining accounting records using generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) and the seven required Rules and Regulations listed in Colorado Statute 38-33,3-209.5 (1) (b) : Enforcement of Covenants and Rules, including Notice and Hearing procedures and the schedule of fines; Collection of unpaid Assessments; Inspection and copying of Association records by Owners; Conduct of meetings; Handling conflicts of interest involving Board members; Investment of reserve funds; Procedures for the adoption and amendment of Policies, Procedures, and Rules.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

LuciusD
(Colorado)

Posts:139

05/02/2006 5:58 PM
There is a distict difference between "publicizing" debts to disinterested parties and disclosing aging reports to members of an association to whom the debts are owed. We distribute the aging report to every member who attends the annual meeting. They are entitled to know.

LisaS
(Illinois)

Posts:339

05/04/2006 9:22 PM
SwanB...while I agree with most of your post, I disagree with the interpretation regarding AR. Association records should be available for review (as required by your state or the Non Profit Corp Act). Consequently, in that respect AR should be availabe for review. I myself would not neccesarily 'name names' at an annual meeting, but outstanding accounts should appear in the financial statements and anyone who is a member should be able to review the specifics. Kind of a compromise... We file liens for unpaid dues. Liens are a matter of public record.

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

05/05/2006 6:50 AM
We also file liens for unpaid dues, etc. and that information is available. The AR aging reports I am referring to are the monthly reports our accountant creates for the Treasurer and Board to review for the Treasurer's report at the Board meeting. A Board member has access to those monthly AR reports. The AR report indicates any AR owing and could include office copying, guest/tenant registration, fines, gate card fees, annual dues, liens, etc. Our financial statements are available at any time for our members to review i.e. Balance sheet and Profit and Loss and the Capital Budget which is ratified at at our Annual Meeting. Example of a reason why we learned not to share our AR: Two different members were posted amounts owing for over a year. Our bylaws do not allow a member to be levied a single fine over the amount of our annual dues. For the second month the member was fined over $200 more than the annual dues for that year (along with the $ amount for the previous months). The next month the total of the three months was doubled. The Board then put a lien on the member's property and turned off his gate cards without following the procedures outlined in our bylaws which require waiting 60 days and then a written notice allowing him 10 days to respond and then turning the gate cards off. Foreclosure proceedings were contemplated. The second member owed a fine for an infraction they did not commit but for which the Board was not willing to rescind since they 'could have'. They were not given due process as was written in our bylaws and finally gave up and put their property on the market, feeling it was a personality issue with that particular Board since they were also renting their property out. The fine was related to a renting incident but they proved the vehicle was not even staying at their cabin the weekend it drove through the gate. Both of the above incidents were publicized to the membership and both were heading to litigation. I came on the Board and the next month four of that Board resigned and since we have been able to replace the rest with a consistently higher ratio of integrity and knowledge of our Bylaws, covenants and openmindedness to the concept that we are representatives of our members, not rulers of them. Our legal counsel was the one who indicated might be in our best interests to not share our AR aging report with our membership and was not one of our records that was designated as 'open to the membership' along with any legal file or personnel file.

BradB1
(Illinois)

Posts:15

05/11/2006 7:28 AM
Our HOA requires that a complaint be filed IN WRITING on a form that requires a witness/complaintant signature. Our process of notice of violation includes the right to a hearing and to "face the accuser." This may sound drastic, but there were WAY too many little grumblings of the grapevine and not enough people willing to come forward and put their name on the line to back up the complaint. Also, there were too many retaliation complaints. This way, if someone does have a legitimate complaint, they should have no problem submitting the form and to be willing to come forward if requested, to give further information regarding the complaint at a hearing. The accused also has the right to defend themselves and explain their situation. At the very least, it offers an opportunity for mediation between the homeowners--with the ultimate purpose of harmonious living in our community. Also, they can take back their experience to the "grapevine" with at least a little more understanding of the other side of the story. It FORCES people to do what they should already be able to do as neighbors. Our board has adopted the rule that they are not allowed to submit claims/complaints against any homeowners (at least not be the only complaint, or the first complaint.) They can validate that a violation exists one brought to the attention of the board by an official complaint form. There is no other way to substantiate the validity of claims or to have the complaints be heard by the board in an unbiased manner--the board cannot serve as judge/jury and complaintant. Our property management group is supposed to (in a perfect world) do weekly "walks" of the property to assess for violations as well--focusing on the major construction/nuisance and asthetic concerns. Obviously, a neighbor has no idea whether or not a permit has been obtained for certain projects. Things like parking or items in the backyard are up to the neighbors to report.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

05/11/2006 8:09 AM
Brad, here is how DARCO has solved all the the problems you identified. We do a weekly inspection of the HOA focusing on ANY AND ALL violation. PLUS owners are encouraged to contact us with complaints on violations, problems, and questions. They can request anonymity, their name is not publically recorded, and they can decide whether or not to testify if a Hearing is required. We investigate and if there is a violation we document it with pictures and a written report of our observations. This resolves the problems of owners not wanting to alienate their neighbors. BTW, Board members are owners and have the same rights to complain of violations. If there is a Hearing and the Board is the Hearing Committee then the Board member who filed a complaint is not identified and they abstain for voting. DARCO is the party that files the complaint - not the homeowner.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

05/11/2006 8:17 AM
We also require the complaint to come through in written form and signed by the complaintant. Then the complaint is investigated by our Violations Director and logged into a reports log and a letter is written to document the findings and summary of the conversation or dialogue concerning the complaint and the follow up on resolving the complaint or violation or levying of fine as per our posted Schedule of Violations and Fines. The member who has a complaint or violation against them has the ability to appeal at the next Board meeting either in writing or in person or by an agent for themselves, if they cannot be there. All of our accounts are not payable for a month so there is a month's timespan for the appeal process. As a past Violations Director, I have even been asked to be that 'agent' for members who I have levied fines against and they are appealing (?). It certainly seemed odd to be asked to function in that role but I guess they felt I was honest and fair in my interactions with them.

SwanB
(Washington)

Posts:194

05/11/2006 8:22 AM
RogerB: This is one area where an agent or body, other than the Board, would serve better, I think. In the processing of complaints and violations when a Board member is the offender. Our previous Board had multiple offenders on it and nothing was done about it, for years. Then I came on the Board and was put in the position of Violations Director. As the 'bad' Board members started dropping off, I was positioned to 'go after their violations'. Not a very fair position to be placed in, especially as I was a new HOA member at the time also. Here the community was saying; these members have been violating for ten years and you need to deal with it. My strategy was to acknowledge the rift but to stand on the strong basis that I could only go forward from here. To me that was the fairest way to approach this situation. "From this day forward, these violations would not be tolerated..."

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:820

08/10/2006 8:43 AM
Posted:05/11/2006 10:28 AM Our HOA requires that a complaint be filed IN WRITING on a form that requires a witness/complaintant signature. Our process of notice of violation includes the right to a hearing and to "face the accuser." This may sound drastic, but there were WAY too many little grumblings of the grapevine and not enough people willing to come forward and put their name on the line to back up the complaint. Also, there were too many retaliation complaints. This way, if someone does have a legitimate complaint, they should have no problem submitting the form and to be willing to come forward if requested, to give further information regarding the complaint at a hearing. The accused also has the right to defend themselves and explain their situation. At the very least, it offers an opportunity for mediation between the homeowners--with the ultimate purpose of harmonious living in our community. Also, they can take back their experience to the "grapevine" with at least a little more understanding of the other side of the story. It FORCES people to do what they should already be able to do as neighbors. Our board has adopted the rule that they are not allowed to submit claims/complaints against any homeowners (at least not be the only complaint, or the first complaint.) They can validate that a violation exists one brought to the attention of the board by an official complaint form. There is no other way to substantiate the validity of claims or to have the complaints be heard by the board in an unbiased manner--the board cannot serve as judge/jury and complaintant. Our property management group is supposed to (in a perfect world) do weekly "walks" of the property to assess for violations as well--focusing on the major construction/nuisance and asthetic concerns. Obviously, a neighbor has no idea whether or not a permit has been obtained for certain projects. Things like parking or items in the backyard are up to the neighbors to report. I have been asked this same question many times. When a HO wants to know why the neighbors in violation still hasn’t complied? What is AR? In my neighborhood, we are dealing with 25% delinquent account on assessment. I didn’t and still don’t know what can or can’t be done to these violators. In New York where I originally grew up as a kid I remember my parents looking in the local paper to see who hasn’t paid their land taxes. My BOD has told me the procedure fir repetitive non payment is liens and foreclosure. I have come to realize this is a long process. I think if the HO was “embarrassed” for non payment of his or her dues by making their neighbors aware that they are and have been delinquent on their assessment. Then they might attempt to pay something. HMMMMMMMM IMO I have read the responses to the post. Good suggestions although, It’s still unclear to me as to what else can be done or maybe what else should be done. I would appreciate any suggestions on how my HOA can collect from delinquent HO. Thank you, as always. Sorry for such a long post Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:787

08/11/2006 1:14 PM
There is a difference between recording the names in the official documents of the association, (the minutes) and publishing them in some other manner. I agree with everyone that since the names are in the minutes and since the minutes oare a part of the association's records that are available to the owners, that the names are, in a sense, "public". But not really, since only the owners can see them, under controlled circumstances. If published in a newsletter, or flyer, then that control is lost. Take for example, an association that regularly publishes the names of rules violators or delinquent owners in a newsletter. It is possible, that by the time the newsletter is delivered, that the problem has been corrected, or there may have been a mistake by the association in citing the problem in the first place. In any event, you now have one teed-off owner who is going to be asking about your "publisher's liability" insurance. The idea is to correct the problem, not humiliate the owner, and I guarantee you that publishing their names will create a lifelong enemy. I usually like to tell boards that in association matters, "friends come and go, but enemies accumulate" and you really don't need to create them, they'll be enough popping up on their own. Check with your attorney with respect to potential liability issues before publishing names. This is one of the reasons I don't like publishing the exact minutes from a board meeting (unless your documents or state law requires it, which then also establishes a certain level of protection for you). Instead, just do a summary, leaving out names, and note that the minutes are available for a review by owners. Also, with the right to inspect your documents, do most of you require the owner to sign a document to limit how they may use the information? What if an owner were to give the delinquency report to a local newspaper in order to embarass someone? Consider having your attorney draft a document limiting how the owner can use the information (basically keeping it inside the association). Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

08/11/2006 8:48 PM
My opinion is that it is irresponsible for anyone to publish or publicly speak of violators. To me there is a huge difference between a criminal offense and not paying dues on time. I have seen some associations who have published names of deliquents, but I don't see how that can do any good. I always try to apply the "what would I like to have done" standard. Anytime you publish or talk about violators you risk giving out misinformation and opening yourself up to serious problems. We handle all those with deliquent dues internally by the board. If someone questions a yard and if we are doing anything I will respond that we are either working on it, nothing we can do, was not aware of it. I don't give specifics. I may be off base and wrong in my thinking.

TerryL
(California)

Posts:23

08/12/2006 10:31 AM
In our HOA, violations are discussed in the general session. Members who have made multiple complaints about violations have a right to know that the association is taking measures to correct the problem. What is reserved for the executive session is issues of financial nature. Delinquencies, fines, etc. are discussed in executive session. In CA, members are entitled to see the HOA's records, which include the agendas of meetings.

TerryL
(California)

Posts:23

08/12/2006 12:18 PM
I think that Joe's comment about controlled circumstances should not be overlooked. The owners of the corporation have a right to know the business of the corporation. That includes knowledge about violations and what the HOA is doing to resolve it. There is a difference between making details public, and making them available to the membership.

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