Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Friday, December 06, 2019
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Verify Proxy Votes
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
DaleC4


Posts:0


11/28/2019 7:25 AM  
I have searched the Kansas laws & regulations and Roberts Rules and cannot find anything that states that HOA members have the right to specify a specific spotter to go back with the Secretary and another board member to verify all votes. We have an HOA board that some question the integrity of when it comes to counting these votes. We want to make sure that the members in attendance have the authority to select the spotter that they want and not let the board select another one of “their” people to confirm that all votes are up and up. I hope that there is some document out there that applies to ALL states since Kansas does not specify. The governing laws in the HOA does not specify how the votes are confirmed.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:1469


11/28/2019 8:27 AM  
So, you’re thinking of something like a Federal law to mandate how HOAs count votes?

Sounds like you need to be on the Board, and then collect enough Board support to change however it is your Board is processing votes. Some Boards have been known to hire independent management companies to do this sort of thing.

But, you need to be part of the Board to get this sort of thing rolling.

Firing from the outside without proof of wrongdoing will just irritate those that are probably working hard to do the right thing.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6711


11/28/2019 8:50 AM  
In CA by statute, Owners may observe the inspectors of election (in our case, volunteer owners who count the votes) while they open the secret ballot envelopes and tabulate the votes.

But I don't know if Kansas has any statutes like that. I doubt there's any nationwide.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3362


11/28/2019 3:41 PM  
In Florida the ballots must be tabulated in the open and in plain view of anyone in attendance. Like California, Florida isn't Kansas. You'll have to refer to your states laws and statutes.

(btw the Wizard of Oz is on right now, speaking of Kansas)
DaleC4


Posts:0


11/28/2019 4:17 PM  
Yes, I do want to run on the board, but it appears to me (based off of some of the HOA members of long duration) that they question the integrity of the board members. The problem is that in the HOA covenants and the bylaws there is NO voting guidelines as such. Current HOA bylaws states: the voting of board members will be in secret (that’s it). The way this is done is that each person present representing a household has two votes to cast. After the nomination of officers ceases, we will write the name of the individual down we want elected and write 2 by their name for casting two votes. None of the ballots are signed in person. Then the Secretary and another board member goes to another room and counts all the ballots plus any and all proxies. We have NO non-board member designated as a spotter or independent inspector of the election. The board members could pad the count in favor of who they want on the board. I have been told that this is exactly what has happened in the past.

Therefore, my question is if a another state like California has specific election rules called out and our state of Kansas does not mention inspectors, would I have a case that other states do it this way and this is not unusual and we members DEMAND that a HOA member be assigned the task by majority vote and be allowed to verify all proxies? California HOA states: when an association’s election requires the use of secret ballots in accordance with Civil Code Section 5100, an association is required to “select an independent third party or parties as an inspector of elections.” (Civ. Code § 5110(a).) The number of inspector(s) must either be one (1) or three (3). (Civ. Code § 5110(a).). “Independent Third Party” Defined
An independent third party allowed to serve as an association’s inspector of elections includes, but is not limited to, the following: (Civ. Code § 5110(b))
* A volunteer poll worker with the county registrar of voters;
* A licensee of the California Board of Accountancy (CBA);
* A notary public; or
* A member of the association, provided that the member is not a director, a candidate for director, or related to a director or to a candidate for director.

I am like all other HOA members who are being bullied and watch their HOA board overuse their powers, there has got to be a way to hold them accountable for those states that are not this specific. To me basic voting rules must be able to apply to keep the HOA voting process transparent.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:1469


11/28/2019 5:03 PM  
“I have been told that this is exactly what has happened in the past.”

Hopefully, you have delved a bit deeper into this, than simply the above statement?
DaleC4


Posts:0


11/29/2019 5:39 AM  
First of all I should have asked before I even tried to seek you guidance as to what are your qualifications? Is this just a form where people try to get help and you come back with answers like you did. The reason I am inclined to believe that proxy votes are padded to their favor is because this board has approved deviations from the covenants “for members on the board or on the design committee”. If you have a board like that then without any kind of inspector we will never know. So could you please address the above question I had instead of trying to hone in on do they do this or not. There must be a way that we can stop any padding of votes by demanding that we have a HOA member, not being nominated, to go back with the board members to verify all proxy votes.
BobB31
(Florida)

Posts:134


11/29/2019 6:08 AM  
Posted By DaleC4 on 11/29/2019 5:39 AM
First of all I should have asked before I even tried to seek you guidance as to what are your qualifications? Is this just a form where people try to get help and you come back with answers like you did. The reason I am inclined to believe that proxy votes are padded to their favor is because this board has approved deviations from the covenants “for members on the board or on the design committee”. If you have a board like that then without any kind of inspector we will never know. So could you please address the above question I had instead of trying to hone in on do they do this or not. There must be a way that we can stop any padding of votes by demanding that we have a HOA member, not being nominated, to go back with the board members to verify all proxy votes.


I'm sure if such laws existed, someone would have posted cites to them. I was tempted to start googling, but, given your attitude toward people trying to provide assistance ... do your own f*cking research.
DaleC4


Posts:0


11/29/2019 6:42 AM  
I have done my own research and came across your website. This is the reason I DO NOT GET INTO THESE chat groups because the host does NOT know how to help those who are seeking help. You definitely are NOT an expert, but a person who like to curse out people. THERFORE, PLE;ASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR STUPID WEBISTE BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO HELP PEOPLE.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:1469


11/29/2019 7:28 AM  
Bob should have been more circumspect with his comment.

Many on this site have heard thousands of stories, with a large percentage based on heresay and ignorance of their own community, municipal, and state law. Many posters come here to complain without the ability to reference even their own governing documents. Many spend their effort ripping into their board’s activities without ever having served on the board or even a committee. Some come here just to badmouth the concept of HOAs.

So, perhaps we can start over? You provide specifics of your situation - not heresay, but things known, and we can ask questions, before providing our free opinions?
AugustinD


Posts:2045


11/29/2019 11:01 AM  
Dale, does your HOA have 12 or more units? Was your HOA created after January 1, 2011? If the answer to both of these is "yes," then the Kansas Uniform Common Interest Owners Bill of Rights Act applies. Section 58-4616 requires the HOA to provide a member with the "ballots, proxies, and other records related to voting by unit owners for one year after the election, action, or vote to which they relate." For details of making a request, see http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2012/b2011_12/statute/058_000_0000_chapter/058_046_0000_article/058_046_0016_section/058_046_0016_k/

Furthermore, if your HOA is a corporation, then Kansas's Corporations Act at Section 17-6510 gives you the right to inspect records. This may include the proxies et cetera you want to see. For details, see http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2012/b2011_12/statute/017_000_0000_chapter/017_065_0000_article/017_065_0010_section/017_065_0010_k/
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement