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Subject: HOA and ESA
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FayeE
(New York)

Posts:18


11/27/2019 9:00 PM  
First
This is an Condominium. Homeowners own their condo. Each building has 2 sides- 2 condos on each side One up and one down
Second
A homeowner recently contacted the management company to info them that he/she is getting a ESA animal.
The management company informed the homeowner that they have to submit the proper paper work and the Board will make a decision.
Third
I informed the President (who is against this) that if they have the proper paperwork that we (HOA) can not deny them according to the Law. He got upset up and quoted the Law for Landlords. I informed him that he is not a Landlord that our Homeowners own their condo.

Question is:
Since our setup here is like an apartment building what does the Law say about this setup.
We are not Landlords. We are an HOA Board and we do allow 2 cats per Condo. If the ESA is a cat there is no issue. It is dogs that the President does not want. The people that bought the Condo from the beginning could keep their dog. By now all those dogs are dead. We also have a nuisance law when it comes to pets

Some back history:
One homeowner had a dog and it was a ESA dog. The President told the management company to write a letter saying they had to get rid of the dog because it barks and the neighbor did not want any noise. He made the MC send a letter to get rid of dog or be fined. I informed the President of the Law but his out was the nuisance clause.
I also said there are items that can silence dogs and even items for the neighbor bothered by the noise. Since there were no more complaints the dog is gone.


The real issue with the President:
The President hates the person wanting the current ESA. They have been battling for decades. The President has been pushing this homeowner all the time from even telling this person that they can not back their car into a parking space but the President does. We have no law restricting backing into a parking space. This kind of child behavior goes on all the time and even with me, the VP, he bosses me around like he is the Ruler over all the Board.

President says:
"That people needing a ESA or a Support Animal, that their rights can not unsurp his rights" a quote
Then he added THE END. meaning no more discussion he is right.
of course i responded and said a the end " Now the END"


Course of Action?
The Law says the HOA can not deny an ESA or a Support Animal.

Thank you
AugustinD


Posts:2045


11/27/2019 9:44 PM  
1. Case law sees HOAs as partial landlords.

2. Here is an introduction to the law in New York City: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/downloads/pdf/materials/EmotionalSupportAnimals_Housing_FactSheet.pdf

3.
I recommend the resident obtain a copy of her letter of rejection (for the ESA) and then immediately submit a letter of complaint to the appropriate authority. Google for the appropriate authority. The president is an unreasonable person. Trying to reason with him is a waste of the resident's time. The complaint should cover only the pertinent facts. If she naively goes into other problems with the president, the agency will ignore her complaint.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8753


11/28/2019 5:12 AM  
What do your CC&R's say about what type of animals you may own? You may also want to check up on the laws of ESA's. They recently made some changes to that law. Which believe does now require the proper official paperwork to be ruled a ESA. You can't just randomly claim it.

This isn't necessarily a "service" dog like someone for a blind person may have. It's an emotional support animal which skirts the line. I have 2 dogs and wouldn't necessarily call them "Emotional support system". They are pets whom I love. An emotional support animal does provide some duties like calming high anxiety or good with autistic children.

So if the situation was a person with a mental disability like PTSD, Autism, or anxiety I would have no issue with a dog. It should be presented to the board as such. It is also a possible animal control issue. So consult your local animal control for additional advice.

It's hard when you have people who just want a pet but claim it as an ESA... I truly believe in ESA/Service animals. I don't believe in people trying to skirt the system... Which is probably how your President is looking at it. (BTW... as writing this my dog is fully wedged against my back snoring... She's giving me "back support". LOL!)

Former HOA President
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3362


11/28/2019 3:36 PM  
Posted By FayeE on 11/27/2019 9:00 PM
This kind of child behavior goes on all the time and even with me, the VP, he bosses me around like he is the Ruler over all the Board.

And you push right back. Right? Or do you let him get away with it? How many other board members are there who also let him get away with his unprofessional behavior?
PaulJ6
(New York)

Posts:377


12/01/2019 1:07 PM  
The president is just asking to be sued for breach of fiduciary duty. Actually, the president is just begging to be sued for breach of fiduciary duty.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:833


12/01/2019 5:39 PM  
Faye!! follow the APA guidelines for getting an ESA.. Talk with your primary care physician to get a letter or "prescription" then take a copy of said letter to the HOA prez and tell him to stick it where the sun don't shine.
FayeE
(New York)

Posts:18


12/02/2019 8:27 PM  
Thank you for your reply. Thank you for the link but NYC has different laws than Western NYS.
As I know the homeowner is getting the proper paper work and as I have read the law that HOA can not deny an ESA animal. The President seems to believe in his head that it will be animal that the Homeowner can not take care of such as a puppy vs a dog. I have never seen a puppy be given as a ESA when the person is alone and an older person. A puppy or a kitten will be to much for that type of a person handle.

The President will try his darnest to deny this man based on his personal feelings. If he has the proper paperwork we just can not deny. I will be darned to be included in a lawsuit that I forbid him to have it.

Thank you again it is greatly appreciated.
I wish you a Merry Christmas
Faye
FayeE
(New York)

Posts:18


12/02/2019 8:37 PM  
Thank you for your response.
I know this homeowner getting the proper paper work to have an ESA. The meds are not doing enough in helping him to remain calm and feel loved. He is a man about 66. He served our country and has issues from that. He is all alone. I tried being a friend to him and fight the President for him but he has so many issue that I just could not be a friend. After decades of the Homeowner now President of the HOA he has bullied this man something terrible. I hate to think it is because he is gay. But I have that funny feeling that is the reason and they live in speaking distance from each other.

So I will do all I can to make sure this homeowner gets his ESA as long as he has all his proper paper work.

Thank you
Merry Christmas
Faye
FayeE
(New York)

Posts:18


12/02/2019 8:50 PM  
it took me a little while being new to the Board but I have started pushing back. He says things like calm down Faye and that just makes me mad when he is trying to handle me. He does that a lot but not anymore.
We have 3 other board members plus me and the President. One (woman) just wants things to look pretty and to hell with the buildings falling down. She votes with the President all the time Another one also a woman could care less what is going on and votes with the President all the time Then we have a new member a older gentleman with onset Alzheimer. He is like everything is okay and votes with the President all the time too.
Once when I argued against the President spending a $5,000+ the President told me to shut up, I take to much time and he will remove me from the Board. At the time it threw me because I was very new to the Board but that will not happen anymore.

My son told me to quit. I have been thinking about doing that. If I can do it when it leaves them short on the Board better yet.
Thank you
Merry Christmas
Faye
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3910


12/02/2019 8:54 PM  
Looks like it's time for you to start recruiting Faye.
Best of luck.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
FayeE
(New York)

Posts:18


12/02/2019 8:55 PM  
He needs to be sued for something. Using the Board to his own advantage. Thinking he is the Boss and does anything he wants without consulting with the Board. He claims he does not have to answer to the Board and I keep telling him oh yes you do. He needs a kick where the sun does not shine
Thanks
Merry Christmas
Faye
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:1469


12/03/2019 5:47 AM  
Faye,

Your posts are interesting, but I’m not hearing anything that indicates you have a plan, and help from others, including the community, to replace the person you discuss.

You have also added, later in the thread, to the gripes about this person ... do you have a plan? Agreement on the plan? Support for executing the plan?
FayeE
(New York)

Posts:18


12/03/2019 9:03 AM  
A plan? When I am the only one looking out for the interests of all the homeowners, I hit a brick wall. Oh, he does move to protect the buildings in emergency situations.
The only plan I have, I believe, is take it to the Homeowners personally. I have talked to a few already. most people near the Presidents home are all very loyal to him especially all the elderly. When talking to one elderly person she stated when she has a problem he comes right over. I cannot change her mind. She has a disabled husband, she takes care of and she is in her 80's We do have many elderly people with more younger people coming in as they pass or are moved to nursing homes.

The other attitudes are they do not care. With this last HOA increase I felt they would be more upset but maybe 10 were upset but then they say what can they do.

I do tell them that they can call a special meeting to get the President out. They basically say Oh they did not know that

To replace a spot on the Board is a joke. No one wants to do the job. Out of 84 units we get maybe 27 people to show at our annual meetings.

So, what is my plan?
All I see I have is to talk to the homeowner's face to face. I want nothing in writing sent out from me. That is to protect me.

Please if you see a plan that I can not PLEASE tell me. I am an army of one. I question everything and I am fighting to get the buildings fixed up . We have a terrible mold issue and the President’s decision was not to inform the homeowners and wait that maybe it will dry up and there would be no more problem That is one serious mistake and I feel is putting people's health at risk. I am fighting that decision at most Board meetings. The plan for me is to tell the Homeowner’s. I am one of the worst buildings.

I will take any help I can get in how to stop this lunacy. I have no one else. Thank you
FayeE
(New York)

Posts:18


12/03/2019 9:08 AM  
Thanks I have been even at the annual meeting. No one wants to do this job. I am staying for now because if we do not have enough for a 5 person board then it goes out to hire. That is terrible in my opinion and costs us more money.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3910


12/03/2019 12:07 PM  
Posted By NpS on 12/02/2019 8:54 PM
Looks like it's time for you to start recruiting Faye.
Best of luck.

Plan:
- Recruit people who want things to change like you do.
- Recruit people who have skills that can make a difference to your community.
- Recruit people who are willing to run for the BOD.
- Recruit
- recruit
- Recruit

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
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