Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Friday, December 06, 2019
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Major Elevator Problems in high rise
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 10:27 AM  
Hi again. Need some advice. Our Florida high rise condo (28 stories) has 3 elevators, one of which has failed inspection and is essentially permanently out of commission. The other 2 elevators are always having mechanical issues (40 years old or so), and this week reached a crisis level where no elevator could be called to our high floor over many hours stretching over parts of 2 days. This was finally fixed, but again today we are down to 1 elevator. On Monday- Friday, one of the 2 "functioning" elevators is mostly occupied for commercial use (construction companies), deliveries, further taxing the elevators and wait times, particularly when only 1 elevator is working. For many hours this past week, my 90+ year old Mom had no way to access an elevator (until the last issue was repaired). The Board is floating ideas about the very delayed and much needed elevator replacement project, which is necessary and will take over 2 years to initiate. What are my options at this point?? I am inquiring more from a safety and recourse perspective during this period prior to elevator replacement in a few years. Thanks.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3362


11/23/2019 11:48 AM  
An elevator permanently out of commission? How did that happen? Does the condo maintain reserves for the elevators? How old is the building and how old are the elevators? Have they ever been refurb/replaced before? Why must the condo assocation wait years before getting the elevators repaired?

I think it may be time for you to have a new board, one that takes its responsibilities seriously. Did no one ever consider that the day would come when all of the elevators would be out of service, leading to a bit problem?

I think you need to arrange for elevator repair as soon as possible, not two years down the road. If it's going to take a special assessment to do it, then so be it.

The situation doesn't sound like fun for anyone at any age, but you've got to consider that the unit owners themselves are at least partially to blame for allowing the situation to develop. It didn't happen overnight.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8867


11/23/2019 11:53 AM  
Gerry

I expect the association is well aware of the situation but does not have enough money to properly fix the issue like new elevators.

You cannot get blood out of a stone.
AugustinD


Posts:2045


11/23/2019 12:08 PM  
Gerry, I agree with the others, especially the blood not coming from a stone. I think for the sake of your elderly mother you ought to consider selling and moving.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 12:11 PM  
40 year old condo. Many millions to replace 3 elevators (just our building, 2 others!!), Boards over the years have been kicking it down the road (but discussing it all the time). Grossly inadequate reserves. Piecemeal repairs for last decade, City just shut down one of the elevators, leaving us struggling with 2 with frequent intermittent issues. Repair guys were there again this week. They seem to think situation is very bad. My concern is how to survive the next 2+ years, and recourse (not financial, just how to ensure the best outcome). Is it unreasonable to suspend or limit use of the designated service elevator (one of the two remaining) which is used nonstop by contractors/workers who hit the stop button, tie it up for extended periods of time (not to mention further wear and tear). To me, it is a safety and health issue for a 90+ year old to be unable to leave a higher floor, or get to a condo in a reasonable amount of time. This should have priority over routine renovations or other elective uses. Also, is there anything to be gained by contacting the City? I am not trying to create problems, or have the building condemned, but it truly is an emergency situation when one cannot take 20+ flights of stairs.
With regard to blame, I think the homeowners are victims of their financial state, and Florida post hurricane costs and damage not anticipated or easily budgeted for. The buildings demise started after a hurricane in the early 2000's, which led to new roof's, cooling tower repairs, and many other expenses, many of which were not fully covered with insurance. Then exploding insurance costs, and repair costs with new guidelines. Assessments were inadequate and yet below the financial abilities of many homeowners. Other projects were troubled for various reasons.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 12:12 PM  
Yes. I just added some history.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 12:17 PM  
John and Augustin, you are right. And even though there will be assessments and monthly increases to fund the elevator project, the bidding companies and engineers say it will take 2+ years. We are talking about 9 total 28 story elevators. Major project. I'm just trying to figure out what is reasonable to ensure safety and quality of life prior to this. Contact the City? Limit commercial use/ moratorium on new construction projects until the elevators are done, whatever ideas are reasonable. We think about moving, but prefer not to at this point.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3910


11/23/2019 12:41 PM  
My guess is that the most the City will do is close more elevators.

Moratorium on new construction projects near impossible to pass and get implemented. Who will decide that project X is an emergency or safety issue and project Y is not?

You could seek a grant or special funding from the State.

If you can afford to move, that's what I would suggest.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 12:47 PM  
Posted By NpS on 11/23/2019 12:41 PM
My guess is that the most the City will do is close more elevators.

Moratorium on new construction projects near impossible to pass and get implemented. Who will decide that project X is an emergency or safety issue and project Y is not?

You could seek a grant or special funding from the State.

If you can afford to move, that's what I would suggest.





Y, moving is easy way out for sure. Since all elective home improvement projects (like a kitchen redo) require permits and approval, it seems that a moratorium would free up an elevator for significant periods M-F. Or, specifically only allow move-ins on certain days, same with commercial use. Again, my premise is that safety and fair quality of life should have priority given markedly reduced elevator capability.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:1469


11/23/2019 12:50 PM  
I suspect everyone understood the Board was not suitably funding the reserve.

So, this is now simple - large special assessments until elevators replaced. The more money, the faster the effort will progress.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 12:56 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/23/2019 12:50 PM
I suspect everyone understood the Board was not suitably funding the reserve.

So, this is now simple - large special assessments until elevators replaced. The more money, the faster the effort will progress.





For sure George. And that will happen. The question is, what proactive steps can be done to give a high floor person (or anyone who can't take stairs) the best opportunity to survive the 2+years until the project gets done. Short of moving.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:1469


11/23/2019 1:18 PM  
Nada to my thinking.

Elevators based on priority? Access, sure, but not priority.

Why would someone qualify? Age? Infirmity? Alzheimer’s? Wheelchair? Fatness?

It wouldn’t stop.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 1:37 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/23/2019 1:18 PM
Nada to my thinking.

Elevators based on priority? Access, sure, but not priority.

Why would someone qualify? Age? Infirmity? Alzheimer’s? Wheelchair? Fatness?

It wouldn’t stop.





Well, I hadn't thought of that- like boarding an airline flight. No, wouldn't work. I was thinking of proactive ways to reduce elevator usage, and commercial use disrupting resident use at a time of crisis. I would like to see a hierarchy of approved elevator usage times/days, weight restrictions being actively reviewed by security. Specific days and times to schedule moves or supply deliveries. If we have 1 elevator working M-F, it stops for extended periods of time on the ground floor to load all sorts of materials, workers, doing elective work. We sit forever waiting, or in the past week, for some 16 hours with no elevator. A crisis should lead to crisis rules. No new projects, grandfather in old ones. Schedule move ins when one elevator is monopolized. These aren't normal times, and should not be treated as such. Just my take.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3910


11/23/2019 2:13 PM  
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/23/2019 1:37 PM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/23/2019 1:18 PM
Nada to my thinking.

Elevators based on priority? Access, sure, but not priority.

Why would someone qualify? Age? Infirmity? Alzheimer’s? Wheelchair? Fatness?

It wouldn’t stop.





Well, I hadn't thought of that- like boarding an airline flight. No, wouldn't work. I was thinking of proactive ways to reduce elevator usage, and commercial use disrupting resident use at a time of crisis. I would like to see a hierarchy of approved elevator usage times/days, weight restrictions being actively reviewed by security. Specific days and times to schedule moves or supply deliveries. If we have 1 elevator working M-F, it stops for extended periods of time on the ground floor to load all sorts of materials, workers, doing elective work. We sit forever waiting, or in the past week, for some 16 hours with no elevator. A crisis should lead to crisis rules. No new projects, grandfather in old ones. Schedule move ins when one elevator is monopolized. These aren't normal times, and should not be treated as such. Just my take.


Even if you could reach consensus on what the rule should be -- who is going to enforce it? What action are you going to take when someone ignores the rule? Will you allow exceptions? Yada yada?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 2:20 PM  
Posted By NpS on 11/23/2019 2:13 PM
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/23/2019 1:37 PM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/23/2019 1:18 PM
Nada to my thinking.

Elevators based on priority? Access, sure, but not priority.

Why would someone qualify? Age? Infirmity? Alzheimer’s? Wheelchair? Fatness?

It wouldn’t stop.





Well, I hadn't thought of that- like boarding an airline flight. No, wouldn't work. I was thinking of proactive ways to reduce elevator usage, and commercial use disrupting resident use at a time of crisis. I would like to see a hierarchy of approved elevator usage times/days, weight restrictions being actively reviewed by security. Specific days and times to schedule moves or supply deliveries. If we have 1 elevator working M-F, it stops for extended periods of time on the ground floor to load all sorts of materials, workers, doing elective work. We sit forever waiting, or in the past week, for some 16 hours with no elevator. A crisis should lead to crisis rules. No new projects, grandfather in old ones. Schedule move ins when one elevator is monopolized. These aren't normal times, and should not be treated as such. Just my take.


Even if you could reach consensus on what the rule should be -- who is going to enforce it? What action are you going to take when someone ignores the rule? Will you allow exceptions? Yada yada?




Y, good points. We have a security gate with guards, they do a fantastic job of preventing normal deliveries like appliances, emergency repair personnel like plumbers and electricians, etc. They would just have to be trained to also prevent illegal operations. You're all right, I should list the place this week.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3412


11/23/2019 5:13 PM  
You cannot get blood out of a stone.




Many good points about scheduling construction work, service, move ins etc.....

Except this point.... you can get blood from a stone.

HOA cant afford it? They get a bank loan. HOA passes that along to the HOA members. Might be an special assessment, might be a portion of your raised dues going to the elevator loan. How the homeowners pay for it is their problem. They could sell.

Sure, the whole project might take 2 years with 9 elevators, but for now, the ones that must be fixed right away are the broken ones.

As for calling the city, you can, but its likely it will just shut down more elevators like other said. The city cant make the work go faster nor fix it for you. I suppose the city will just make it more expensive for the HOA.

PS. Its a very real possibility people will need to walk 28 floors temporarily. And its a definite the dues are going to skyrocket to pay for the elevators.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:833


11/23/2019 6:12 PM  
Well it sure sounds like past board of directors really screwed up BIG TIME. You can band together some owners and sue the association. You could possibly get a settlement from the D&O insurance carrier and if you prevail insist that that check go to replacing the elevators. I don't know what your cap is on your D&O insurance. but I assume it should be north of 2 million. You dues are going up regardless..
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:1469


11/23/2019 6:19 PM  
LetA,,

Sounds a bit far fetched.

The entire condo association was aware of the underfunding ... everyone did nothing. Sure, there are the clueless, but way most would know.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3412


11/23/2019 6:25 PM  
Sue? That will take years, even to settle. Horrible idea.

Paying money to lawyers instead of the elevator? LOL.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8753


11/23/2019 8:00 PM  
Well will say less chance of break ins and thefts with a broken elevator... No one is going to want to walk up 10 floors to steal a TV...

Time to either move or have a special assessment to pay for the job. Knowing a bit about elevator companies it could take time to get them replaced even when hired. There not a lot of choices and work load is pretty demanding. So even if you were all to pay a company, your still going to have to deal with shut downs or limits of service for weeks at a time.

Former HOA President
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/23/2019 9:41 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/23/2019 8:00 PM
Well will say less chance of break ins and thefts with a broken elevator... No one is going to want to walk up 10 floors to steal a TV...

Time to either move or have a special assessment to pay for the job. Knowing a bit about elevator companies it could take time to get them replaced even when hired. There not a lot of choices and work load is pretty demanding. So even if you were all to pay a company, your still going to have to deal with shut downs or limits of service for weeks at a time.




Yes, it will take long. If the provided info is accurate, actually over 2 years to see the first elevator completed. That’s why I’m trying to solicit reasonable game plan ideas to survive there 27 stories up averaging one elevator (vs 3). Besides limiting commercial use, other ideas like bungee cords, parachutes, Uber eats, etc. PS. In this building, stolen TVs will probably go up.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8753


11/24/2019 3:31 AM  
Is there a reason you all can't start the process ASAP instead of keep repeating what you already know? Seems to me if a project is going to take 2 years to complete, it's best to get on it ASAP. Finding other solutions will just have to happen when the issue arises.

There are always those "chair lifts" could put in the stairwell....

Former HOA President
EdC5
(Florida)

Posts:114


11/24/2019 5:35 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/23/2019 6:19 PM
LetA,,

Sounds a bit far fetched.

The entire condo association was aware of the underfunding ... everyone did nothing. Sure, there are the clueless, but way most would know.




Agreed; and since underfunding reserves requires a very specific voted waiver, the owners HAD to know that there was going to be a shortfall for maintenance. At this point there are 2 choices: 1) special assessment, and increase in regular assessments to bring the reserves in line; or, 2) loan, and increase in regular assessments to bring the reserves in line.

A couple of years ago I walked the association I was managing through the refinance of its mortgage. The entire process took about 7 months (in reality 9 months due to Hurricane Irma pushing the closing back). So, there are no "quick fixes" in this situation.

Edward J Cooke, CMCA, LCAM
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 6:16 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/24/2019 3:31 AM
Is there a reason you all can't start the process ASAP instead of keep repeating what you already know? Seems to me if a project is going to take 2 years to complete, it's best to get on it ASAP. Finding other solutions will just have to happen when the issue arises.

There are always those "chair lifts" could put in the stairwell....




Y. Those chair lifts !! 27 stories, might be like a cross country flight. As far as I can tell, the Board is proceeding (maybe not ASAP, but high priority) with elevator bids and finance planning. But the building is a disaster, structurally and financially, which tends to slow things down to where we’ve gotten to. Chronic leaks, 40 year inspection issues, needs new roof(s) again, floor and lobby renovation projects stalled and under budgeted. Our monthly dues have been way below average for area, except for 2 sizable assessments in 17 years. I think the cost to rapidly do the major projects might be beyond the means of the average homeowner (guessing $25,000 per condo, with average condo selling for around $180,000, and many low income homeowners living month to month). Pretty grim. But we have a great unit (once you’re in it), tough to leave a top floor with panoramic view, high ceilings, prime location, for something much worse for 2-3 times the cost. Trade-offs. So trying to survive elevator issue with all means possible.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3412


11/24/2019 6:28 AM  
tough to leave a top floor with panoramic view, high ceilings, prime location, for something much worse for 2-3 times the cost. Trade-offs. So trying to survive elevator issue with all means possible.


Shes 90. Wont be there too much longer due to mother nature. Maybe 2 more years before shes is in a assisted living home?

Gotta decide if its worth paying a $25k special assessment and not be able to live there anyway, or leaving now while its worth the most. Because when the special assessment hits, people will put units up for sale like crazy. Lowering everyone's sale price.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 6:29 AM  
Posted By EdC5 on 11/24/2019 5:35 AM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/23/2019 6:19 PM
LetA,,

Sounds a bit far fetched.

The entire condo association was aware of the underfunding ... everyone did nothing. Sure, there are the clueless, but way most would know.




Agreed; and since underfunding reserves requires a very specific voted waiver, the owners HAD to know that there was going to be a shortfall for maintenance. At this point there are 2 choices: 1) special assessment, and increase in regular assessments to bring the reserves in line; or, 2) loan, and increase in regular assessments to bring the reserves in line.

A couple of years ago I walked the association I was managing through the refinance of its mortgage. The entire process took about 7 months (in reality 9 months due to Hurricane Irma pushing the closing back). So, there are no "quick fixes" in this situation.





Yes. Agree totally. The underfunding is a known issue (despite 2 significant assessments, but relatively low monthly). Building age, changing demographics, skyrocketing costs and hurricane issues, etc. Again, my post is more about rights and survival guide given the circumstances and tenuous elevator situation for next few years (that said, I believe use modifications and great allotment to interim repairs would make it tolerable).
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 6:33 AM  
Posted By SteveM9 on 11/24/2019 6:28 AM
tough to leave a top floor with panoramic view, high ceilings, prime location, for something much worse for 2-3 times the cost. Trade-offs. So trying to survive elevator issue with all means possible.


Shes 90. Wont be there too much longer due to mother nature. Maybe 2 more years before shes is in a assisted living home?

Gotta decide if its worth paying a $25k special assessment and not be able to live there anyway, or leaving now while its worth the most. Because when the special assessment hits, people will put units up for sale like crazy. Lowering everyone's sale price.



Y. Good points. It could be a fire sale. We just got a $75 increase and people are going ballistic.
DonaldT4
(Massachusetts)

Posts:7


11/24/2019 7:19 AM  
OP has no good choices.

If he stays, there will be some combination of massive assessments (very likely >$10k) and little/no elevator service. And if people are complaining about a $75 increase, it would not be surprising if there are defaults when assessments are billed.

If he tries to sell, any prospective buyer is surely going to notice the broken elevator(s) and inadequate reserve fund. And if OP's selling agent does not disclose the impending assessments (whether or not they're officially announced), OP runs the risk of a post-sale law suit.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3412


11/24/2019 7:28 AM  
And if OP's selling agent does not disclose the impending assessments (whether or not they're officially announced), OP runs the risk of a post-sale law suit.


Nothing to disclose. The HOA has not decided what to do. It could use reserves, loan and not increase dues, etc..... Basically what I'm trying to say is, since nothing is official, there is nothing to disclose.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 8:03 AM  
Posted By DonaldT4 on 11/24/2019 7:19 AM
OP has no good choices.

If he stays, there will be some combination of massive assessments (very likely >$10k) and little/no elevator service. And if people are complaining about a $75 increase, it would not be surprising if there are defaults when assessments are billed.

If he tries to sell, any prospective buyer is surely going to notice the broken elevator(s) and inadequate reserve fund. And if OP's selling agent does not disclose the impending assessments (whether or not they're officially announced), OP runs the risk of a post-sale law suit.




Y, grim situation. Condo’s issues are well-known, reflected in price less than half of comparable surrounding properties, and much lower than years ago. Safe affluent oasis town in Miami area. Only 3-4% for sale, way reduced from previous years, so some leeway. As I figure it, the break even to own is around $1900/month. That’s monthly, taxes, and a mortgage on a $180,000 unit. So given at least half the owners are living check to check, what assessment amount leads to unsustainable defaults (vs continued infrastructure deterioration and delays)?? Realistically we want 2 more years, prefer not moving, but want reasonable and lawful elevator access.
EdC5
(Florida)

Posts:114


11/24/2019 8:09 AM  
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:03 AM
Posted By DonaldT4 on 11/24/2019 7:19 AM
OP has no good choices.

If he stays, there will be some combination of massive assessments (very likely >$10k) and little/no elevator service. And if people are complaining about a $75 increase, it would not be surprising if there are defaults when assessments are billed.

If he tries to sell, any prospective buyer is surely going to notice the broken elevator(s) and inadequate reserve fund. And if OP's selling agent does not disclose the impending assessments (whether or not they're officially announced), OP runs the risk of a post-sale law suit.




Y, grim situation. Condo’s issues are well-known, reflected in price less than half of comparable surrounding properties, and much lower than years ago. Safe affluent oasis town in Miami area. Only 3-4% for sale, way reduced from previous years, so some leeway. As I figure it, the break even to own is around $1900/month. That’s monthly, taxes, and a mortgage on a $180,000 unit. So given at least half the owners are living check to check, what assessment amount leads to unsustainable defaults (vs continued infrastructure deterioration and delays)?? Realistically we want 2 more years, prefer not moving, but want reasonable and lawful elevator access.




Since you stated early on in this thread that the other 2 elevators are having issues, here is what I'd recommend if I were the CAM managing your building. Get those 2 elevators repaired and in good working order NOW! Because if the fire marshal comes in and discovers that you have an elevator out of service and the others are not working reliably, then the fire marshal is very likely going to deem the building unsafe and forbid occupancy. Special assessment necessary to cover the cost? Call a member meeting and let them know the facts --- either do this or you might have to live somewhere else.

Edward J Cooke, CMCA, LCAM
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3910


11/24/2019 8:14 AM  
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:03 AM
So given at least half the owners are living check to check, what assessment amount leads to unsustainable defaults (vs continued infrastructure deterioration and delays)??


By how much is the number of defaulting owners going up over time?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AugustinD


Posts:2045


11/24/2019 8:19 AM  
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:03 AM
Realistically we want 2 more years, prefer not moving, but want reasonable and lawful elevator access.


-- I think your board ought to pay a few thousand dollars for a licensed reserve fund analyst to look at everything; complete a reserve study; and advise you on how much money will be needed and the best way to pay for the elevators. This will help give compelling proof to many, though not al. (Most people, including board members, do not understand the details of Reserve studies. Some people will read the Reserve study summary and understand the situation is dire.)

-- What are even the chances your board will agree to either a large special assessment or taking out a loan? Is there hope?
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 8:27 AM  
Ed, thanks for your reply, hits home and seems like only reasonable thing to do if we’re staying there. My 2 biggest concerns have been: 1. prolonged period without elevator access (longest was the past week for some 16 hours, 4pm- 8am or so), and 2. Building being declared unsafe. County has already taped up the one elevator, and posted failed inspection notice. I have emailed the Manager and Board, we’ll see what happens. As an aside, where I live in Hawaii, a similar age high rise condo was in need of major repairs. Plumbing, electric, parking garage, etc. Massive assessment. The occupants all had to actually leave the building for approximately 6 months. Probably the only way to accomplish a proper repair of a 40 year old decaying structure. The problem is, the majority of residents of our Fla property would not have the means to leave.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 8:30 AM  
Posted By NpS on 11/24/2019 8:14 AM
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:03 AM
So given at least half the owners are living check to check, what assessment amount leads to unsustainable defaults (vs continued infrastructure deterioration and delays)??


By how much is the number of defaulting owners going up over time?




I can’t give you an exact amount, but I would guess fairly low so far as our monthly dues have been very low. Around $500/month, was around $375 17 years ago when we bought. We had an $8000 assessment about 5 years ago, which many rolled into their monthly. And still talk about it, since the project was never completed. That’s a whole other story.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 8:31 AM  
Posted By NpS on 11/24/2019 8:14 AM
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:03 AM
So given at least half the owners are living check to check, what assessment amount leads to unsustainable defaults (vs continued infrastructure deterioration and delays)??


By how much is the number of defaulting owners going up over time?




I can’t give you an exact amount, but I would guess fairly low so far as our monthly dues have been very low. Around $500/month, was around $375 17 years ago when we bought. We had an $8000 assessment about 5 years ago, which many rolled into their monthly. And still talk about it, since the project was never completed. That’s a whole other story.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 8:32 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 11/24/2019 8:19 AM
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:03 AM
Realistically we want 2 more years, prefer not moving, but want reasonable and lawful elevator access.


-- I think your board ought to pay a few thousand dollars for a licensed reserve fund analyst to look at everything; complete a reserve study; and advise you on how much money will be needed and the best way to pay for the elevators. This will help give compelling proof to many, though not al. (Most people, including board members, do not understand the details of Reserve studies. Some people will read the Reserve study summary and understand the situation is dire.)

-- What are even the chances your board will agree to either a large special assessment or taking out a loan? Is there hope?



GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 8:42 AM  
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:32 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 11/24/2019 8:19 AM
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:03 AM
Realistically we want 2 more years, prefer not moving, but want reasonable and lawful elevator access.


-- I think your board ought to pay a few thousand dollars for a licensed reserve fund analyst to look at everything; complete a reserve study; and advise you on how much money will be needed and the best way to pay for the elevators. This will help give compelling proof to many, though not al. (Most people, including board members, do not understand the details of Reserve studies. Some people will read the Reserve study summary and understand the situation is dire.)

-- What are even the chances your board will agree to either a large special assessment or taking out a loan? Is there hope?






Thanks. Sorry for lacking exact info, I believe reserve studies have been done regularly. The Boards and condo seems to have various factions, some wanting assessments and more rapid solutions, others blaming previous Boards for financial malfeasance and not willing to add financial burden to their supporters. It’s like a war zone environment at times. Kind of like politics. The reality is a comparable 40 year old building here in Hawaii pays $2000/month maintenance at this point, and our Florida condo should probably be somewhere in between to support the hyperinflation of hurricane- related costs, labor, regulations, etc. The current Board will likely pass some type of assessment which probably won’t be enough to cure things, but will still hurt the average homeowner.
AugustinD


Posts:2045


11/24/2019 8:57 AM  
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:42 AM
The Boards and condo seems to have various factions, some wanting assessments and more rapid solutions, others blaming previous Boards for financial malfeasance and not willing to add financial burden to their supporters. It’s like a war zone environment at times. Kind of like politics.


I suppose those who do not understand how dire things are will get a hard lesson in the next few years or maybe much sooner.

From your wonderful detail, I imagine the pricing of the condos sort of factors in the likelihood of an enormous special assessment at some point. If I were interested in buying a condo at a low purchase price in hurricane-vulnerable Florida, then I think I could easily live with the special assessment. After all, I paid less because said assessment was likely. What I could not live with are (1) the financial illiteracy of the board and candidates for same and (2) people making large essential expenditures, directly affecting safety and habit-ability, into a political football. The latter two things would weigh on me heavily and subtract mightily from my enjoyment of Florida-living. Add in a 90-year-old mother living in the same condo and my concerns for her. As has been suggested, I would not buy there. I think I would prefer the stress of moving my mother and myself to the next few years of uncertainty and likely great inconvenience.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 9:13 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 11/24/2019 8:57 AM
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 8:42 AM
The Boards and condo seems to have various factions, some wanting assessments and more rapid solutions, others blaming previous Boards for financial malfeasance and not willing to add financial burden to their supporters. It’s like a war zone environment at times. Kind of like politics.


I suppose those who do not understand how dire things are will get a hard lesson in the next few years or maybe much sooner.

From your wonderful detail, I imagine the pricing of the condos sort of factors in the likelihood of an enormous special assessment at some point. If I were interested in buying a condo at a low purchase price in hurricane-vulnerable Florida, then I think I could easily live with the special assessment. After all, I paid less because said assessment was likely. What I could not live with are (1) the financial illiteracy of the board and candidates for same and (2) people making large essential expenditures, directly affecting safety and habit-ability, into a political football. The latter two things would weigh on me heavily and subtract mightily from my enjoyment of Florida-living. Add in a 90-year-old mother living in the same condo and my concerns for her. As has been suggested, I would not buy there. I think I would prefer the stress of moving my mother and myself to the next few years of uncertainty and likely great inconvenience.





All great points I agree with. Summary of my situation: Bought beautiful penthouse unit 17 years ago, at amazing price right after 9/11 (penthouses were not in vogue that week). Building was in fine shape. 2005, Hurricane Wilma hit, causing significant damage and necessitating redo of 700+ cement balconies, roofing, and many other issues. Condo never recovered financially or infrastructure-wise. But we always loved our unit. Fast forward to 2019. Mom just stopped driving, has early dementia, but is on auto-pilot moving around the condo, and neighborhood amenities. Trying to stave off move or nursing home, which could easily be accomplished except for this elevator issue adding an unknown. You're right, one would be nuts to buy there given the essential expenditures being delayed and likely beyond the means of the average homeowner. The condo is on a beautiful piece of land, would probably be best bought out, demolished, with new high rise built.
AugustinD


Posts:2045


11/24/2019 9:24 AM  
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 9:13 AM
But we always loved our unit. Fast forward to 2019. Mom just stopped driving, has early dementia, but is on auto-pilot moving around the condo, and neighborhood amenities.


Having been a part of the care team or the POA for a few elderly relatives, I see your point. Yes, moves throw an elderly person in the early stages of dementia or more way out of kilter.

Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 9:13 AM
The condo is on a beautiful piece of land, would probably be best bought out, demolished, with new high rise built.


I think what you suggest is an interesting option. I wonder if the essence of any recent reserve studies could be interpreted this way as well. In this vein, it is not uncommon for condos to be converted to apartment buildings, via a developer buying out all (or nearly all) the owners. Rents often do get high enough in certain locations that developer-investors come swarming like sharks.

But I am betting your board would never consider investigating a proposal where all units agreed to be bought out.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 9:38 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 11/24/2019 9:24 AM
Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 9:13 AM
But we always loved our unit. Fast forward to 2019. Mom just stopped driving, has early dementia, but is on auto-pilot moving around the condo, and neighborhood amenities.


Having been a part of the care team or the POA for a few elderly relatives, I see your point. Yes, moves throw an elderly person in the early stages of dementia or more way out of kilter.

Posted By GerryW1 on 11/24/2019 9:13 AM
The condo is on a beautiful piece of land, would probably be best bought out, demolished, with new high rise built.


I think what you suggest is an interesting option. I wonder if the essence of any recent reserve studies could be interpreted this way as well. In this vein, it is not uncommon for condos to be converted to apartment buildings, via a developer buying out all (or nearly all) the owners. Rents often do get high enough in certain locations that developer-investors come swarming like sharks.

But I am betting your board would never consider investigating a proposal where all units agreed to be bought out.




The newest luxury condos nearby are starting at $4million, and go into double digits. One has a car elevator that takes you to your floor. It's insane, probably the end of another bubble. Our condo has the best lot, would be perfect for another. I wouldn't want to do it until my Mom's gone, food for thought (will probably never happen unless building condemned) while we're waiting for the elevator to arrive.
AugustinD


Posts:2045


11/24/2019 9:59 AM  
Gerry, interesting. Truth to power, maybe your condo complex is an excellent medium-term investment for someone who does not have to live there. Buy one or more units. Ignore the board's and membership's ramblings. Maybe call state and city inspectors to see if they will declare the one building un-inhabitable . (Taking away as much control as possible from these amateur, and necessarily political, Board members might be best.)

How far behind are the elevators in the other two buildings? If all the buildings can be shut down within five years, developers may start circling, offering a good price compared to what the investor paid today.

I wonder if CAI has published studies of condominiums going belly up. I see condominiums declaring bankruptcy does happen now and then.
GerryW1
(Florida)

Posts:101


11/24/2019 10:44 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 11/24/2019 9:59 AM
Gerry, interesting. Truth to power, maybe your condo complex is an excellent medium-term investment for someone who does not have to live there. Buy one or more units. Ignore the board's and membership's ramblings. Maybe call state and city inspectors to see if they will declare the one building un-inhabitable . (Taking away as much control as possible from these amateur, and necessarily political, Board members might be best.)

How far behind are the elevators in the other two buildings? If all the buildings can be shut down within five years, developers may start circling, offering a good price compared to what the investor paid today.

I wonder if CAI has published studies of condominiums going belly up. I see condominiums declaring bankruptcy does happen now and then.




All the elevators are at the extreme ends of their lives, with weekly service calls the norm. The one which most recently failed inspection in our building made it impossible to keep the 3 shell game going. I believe they could keep things like this for years if 3 are functioning in each building, since 3 becomes 2 regularly, and 2 becomes 1 or worse more frequently recently. I think the default potential when the next assessment occurs will be a more likely potential event (vs county closure- probably would have happened already if 40 year inspections had turned up anything major- didn’t so far)
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Major Elevator Problems in high rise



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement