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CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/17/2007 8:46 AM
Posted By DJ1 on 09/17/2007 6:55 AM KevinK1, We weren't discussing 'who's' responsibility crime which is why I wouldn't raise it. Robert's suspicion is that there would be more police calls to non-hoa than hoa homes. Maybe, maybe not. I just figure the 'take' would be bigger on a HOA than non-HOA home although the risks would also be higher as you pointed out this HOA security patrols in a particular HOA. I'm not sure if I correctly recall that ~60% of US homeowners living in some type of regulated community. Boy the Police must be very busy with crime in the other 40% then. "Bechtel warned that gates don't always keep crime out and can give residents a false sense of security. In your example, Orlando, they have apparently shifted the criminal activity away from Metro-West...perhaps to the HOA's discussed in the article I referenced. "Under normal circumstances gated communities are generally safer than non-gated communities," Bechtel said. "But we have had an upswing in residential burglaries in the last month in gated communities, so they don't always prevent crime." " “IF” you aren’t part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

HaroldS1
(Arizona)

Posts:314

09/17/2007 9:12 AM
"the majority of your guards are 50+ in age and really can't do anything but observe and write tickets." LOL. My brother-in-law works as security at a gated community. He is 64 and the week end security guard there is 91. Harold

DaneC
(California)

Posts:210

09/17/2007 10:57 AM
Posted By AllenP1 on 09/16/2007 11:58 PM Satellite dishes cannot be placed on common areas such as roof tops. If one can get reception on their deck, they're in luck. BUT...the top of the dish cannot exceed the height of the deck fence. Given these constraints only a few can use them in my HOA. I'm in Oregon. I think there is a lot more leeway allowed - tale a look at the FCC's OTARD fact sheet, and also take a look at the orders issued (cases) at the end - http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Dane Clark Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Vice President, Common Interest Developments Bay Commercial Bank Learn More About our Community Assoc. Banking Programs *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3701

09/17/2007 11:32 AM
Allen, I agree with Dane. FCC's OTARD overrules your CC&Rs on satellite dishes.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

HaroldS1
(Arizona)

Posts:314

09/17/2007 12:14 PM
"Allen, I agree with Dane. FCC's OTARD overrules your CC&Rs on satellite dishes." I thought that's what I said???? Harold

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

09/17/2007 12:29 PM
Posted By KarenT on 09/17/2007 8:23 AM Allen, I personally love being in a HOA because there are "rules" as stated by a few of the replies you've already rec'd. I also agree that the majority of the homeowners who are happy with their HOA. The 10%+- who are not happen to be the ones who NEVER PARTICIPATE in any of the meetings, cause problems with their neighbors and only care about themselves. HOA are communities and as such everyone has a stake in what happens and how they are managed. It's like when you vote for the President of the US - don't complain if you don't vote!! What is that saying about HOA rules, everyone likes them until there is one that they don't agree with...or something like that. Where did you get the "10%+/- who are not happen to be the ones....". Isn't one of the common recommendations that we see posted here (other than sell & move) is to run for the board to try to implement changes if you don't agree with what is happening in your HOA, and isn't that exactly what some here have done? It is a disservice to associate those who may be unhappy as the ones causing the problems, never participating etc. I am embedded within a HOA that has yet to enforce the CCR's. There isn't one home in the HOA including the president's that isn't currently in violatation one or more of the CCR's (everything on our property was approved by default when the Developer failed to respond to our ARC approval so I guess we technically were the only ones in compliance...until we found out the CCR's weren't registered on our title thus excluding us from the HOA). I see some humour in some of the generalizations posted (of course I too make the same mistakes).

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/17/2007 12:46 PM
To all, It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion. However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA. Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

09/17/2007 12:59 PM
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM To all, It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion. However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA. Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties. Robert: I would agree with that to a point, a well run HOA is more than likely equipped with a neighborhood watch or something of that magnitude and other devices to deter crime. However, a lot has to do with your location and the location of police to you. If you put a well run HOA in the middle of an area known for high drug activity and violence they are most certainly going to have more crime than a poorly run HOA in the middle of nowhere.

JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728

09/17/2007 1:02 PM
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM To all, It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion. However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA. Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties. RobertR1 - How do you make the correlation between a well run HOA and crime rate? Are you suggesting that a poorly run HOA is one that lacks something that a well run HOA has? A well run service, such as a security guard and gate may have an impact on decreased crime rate but your post above doesn't reference the contributing service/feature. Non-residents committing a crime on HOA property probably don't have any knowledge of the HOA being well-run. It's impossible for an HOA to prevent crime in and of itself. That's a tall order to require, especially when there's a will there's always a way. However, it is the HOA's responsibility to maintain and replace the services promised in an association's governing documents that may contribute to crime reduction such as a gate, or that is promised in the association's governing documents. I could also see an HOA informing the residents of criminal activity and or encouraging owners to be aware of behavior, look out for your neighbors, etc.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

09/17/2007 1:13 PM
Posted By JoeW1 on 09/17/2007 1:02 PM Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM To all, It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion. However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA. Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties. RobertR1 - How do you make the correlation between a well run HOA and crime rate? Are you suggesting that a poorly run HOA is one that lacks something that a well run HOA has? A well run service, such as a security guard and gate may have an impact on decreased crime rate but your post above doesn't reference the contributing service/feature. Non-residents committing a crime on HOA property probably don't have any knowledge of the HOA being well-run. It's impossible for an HOA to prevent crime in and of itself. That's a tall order to require, especially when there's a will there's always a way. However, it is the HOA's responsibility to maintain and replace the services promised in an association's governing documents that may contribute to crime reduction such as a gate, or that is promised in the association's governing documents. I could also see an HOA informing the residents of criminal activity and or encouraging owners to be aware of behavior, look out for your neighbors, etc. I don't want to speak for Robert, but my take on it is there are several things a well run HOA can do to help reduce crime in a neighborhood. 1. The first thing is establishing a good relationships with your local police department, get them to make their presence known in your community. 2. Organize and advertise a neighborhood watch, there is nothing criminals hate more than people watching for them. 3. If your CC&R's allow, fine homeonwers who have guests or who themselves create nuisances or issues in your neighborhood. Some HOA's have a nuisance clause, if you have it use it. 4. If you have parking restrictions enforce them, cars parked on streets are more likely to be broken into than cars parked in driveways, and cars parked in garages are obviously not going to be broken into. 5. Communicate to your membership about safety, leaving porch lights on, etc. Sometimes a reminder is all you need. These are just some simple things you can do that doesn't cost a lot of money, obviously you can buy cameras, high guards, etc. Criminals look for easy targets, a car parked in a garage with a lighted porch with a neighborhood watch sign is more than likely going to send them to another neighborhood without a neighborhood watch sign, with no porch light on and cars lining streets.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

09/17/2007 1:32 PM
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM To all, It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion. However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA. Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties. Robert, wouldn't it be fairer to compare two entities that are as close as possible to one another then? ie. Compare a 'well run' HOA with a 'well run' non-HOA community otherwise comparing a 'well run' HOA with a poorly run non-HOA isn't a fair comparison. (the latter run by local gov't I presume)

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/17/2007 3:20 PM
DJ1, My opinion? We are not discusssing anything to prove anything, or to change parameters to favor one side or the other. I am not running down non HOA communities and I am not defending poorly run HOA's. That's not the point. Of course, whether you live in one or the other it appears to me that more control can be exerted by an HOA or Condo. And, I am not advocating out of control boards anymore than out of control city councils. It's what you do with what you got that makes the difference. An association has got more to work with than a non-association neighborhood.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1702

09/17/2007 11:04 PM
I thought BradP's post articulated very clearly some of the ways that a well-run HOA can reduce crime. I don't think Robert was out of line at all in his statement. There is more to crime reduction than simply adding more police.

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

09/18/2007 6:23 AM
Brad, we have done all those things. Most of the trouble comes from, I hate to say it, renters. We also have a "camper section" that has recently had its deed restrictions changed from temporary to permanent living. A lot of the lots , most 50'x 50', were bought up by one guy and he wasn't too picky about who he sold to.

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

09/18/2007 6:26 AM
Forgot to mention, we are located in a rural area of central TX on a lake and we have had people come in by boat and break-in, or jump the fence (wire).

LindaE2
(Colorado)

Posts:1

09/22/2007 1:06 AM
I overheard a conversation between 2 people, last week. One woman was thinking about buying a condo, the other asking why, as if she was choosing euthanasia, or something as horrible. I regret not speaking up, and wished someone would have warned me off from my purchase. I thought a condo/HOA would REDUCE maintenance headaches. I have a whole list of exterior repairs, needed, requested many times, and ignored (we are talking holes in the roof). Their negligence is causing more damage, yet I would be fined, if hired repairs, out of pocket. Condo-life is not a peaceful, or carefree way to live. I would like to choose (and be able to fire) my own lawnmen, and contractors. I would save money and reduce stress, caring for my own home, MY way (the right way). To answer your question: our HOA is described as "very unhealthy". I describe our property manager with your words, above. When I upgrade, I will choose a home without a HOA; after this experience, I do not believe in them. However, I am not the type of person who gets angry over a boat in someone else's driveway. My question: Is there a place to post names of specific HOA's, or property managers, so future owners can be warned?

JaneK
(California)

Posts:175

09/22/2007 8:57 AM
Good HOA experience? No. Neither the board nor management know the law, ethics or even how to be polite. They are petty and vindictive. They blatantly disregard the law and homeowner concerns and opinions, they want to control your life. Our dues keep going up due to poor planning and our property values are going down. In this area, CA, I’ve noticed “No HOA” advertised on real estate listings. Therefore, no HOA must be a definite plus. Crime can be kept down with a good Neighborhood Watch program. You don’t need an HOA to do that. If you think your HOA is good, remember you are one election away from disaster. Jane

SteveC4
(Florida)

Posts:66

09/22/2007 9:15 AM
Hello IM located in Florida and I would never buy anything that is associated with HOA...think they should do away with it.

MaryN
(Virginia)

Posts:125

09/22/2007 10:11 AM
For years our HOA was great..then new folks moved in..got elected to the BOD and acted like they had been given the keys to the kingdom. Our HOA is now split about equally..and we're now in the legal system .. spending lots of money to resolve our issues. Never, never again. It's a great idea, but can also get nasty and pit neighbor against neighbor. MaryN

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3701

09/22/2007 10:17 AM
Linda, what has your Board done about correcting the list of repairs? Are you on the Board? If not, consider running for the Board and become part of the solution.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

JaneK
(California)

Posts:175

09/22/2007 10:36 AM
Why is the solution always run for the board? I’ve been on the board and it’s definately not the solution! It’s impossible for one person to get petty, vindictive, control-freak board members and management companies (if you have one) to change. You’ll just go nuts. Eventually the board gets bad enough that you can easily get your neighbors together to exert some pressure. That’s happening here. Write your State reps often about the problems you are having and suggest laws be changed. Call the local office frequently. Jane

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3701

09/22/2007 11:01 AM
Posted By JaneK on 09/22/2007 10:36 AM Why is the solution always run for the board? I’ve been on the board and it’s definately not the solution! Running for the Board may not solve all the problems but I respect those who try. It is easy to complain about others; but more difficult to be part of the solution. I have experience that most of the time those who complain do not provide their complaints and proposed solutions effectively to those in a postition to correct the problem. Furthermore, I believe in the saying "If you want to get something done do it yourself."

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

JaneK
(California)

Posts:175

09/22/2007 11:50 AM
Posted By RogerB on 09/22/2007 11:01 AM It is easy to complain about others; but more difficult to be part of the solution. I have experience that most of the time those who complain do not provide their complaints and proposed solutions effectively to those in a postition to correct the problem. Are you REALLY listening to the complaints? In my experience, even when complaints and proposed solutions are effectively communicated, those in position to correct problems just ignore them and proceed to do exactly as they please. AND ‘if you want to get something done, do it yourself’ will probably get you a nasty violation letter and fine! As I said, you’ll just go nuts. Jane

KevinK1

Posts:34

09/22/2007 12:20 PM
Posted By DJ1 on 09/17/2007 6:55 AM KevinK1, We weren't discussing 'who's' responsibility crime which is why I wouldn't raise it. Robert's suspicion is that there would be more police calls to non-hoa than hoa homes. Maybe, maybe not. I just figure the 'take' would be bigger on a HOA than non-HOA home although the risks would also be higher as you pointed out this HOA security patrols in a particular HOA. I'm not sure if I correctly recall that ~60% of US homeowners living in some type of regulated community. Boy the Police must be very busy with crime in the other 40% then. "Bechtel warned that gates don't always keep crime out and can give residents a false sense of security. In your example, Orlando, they have apparently shifted the criminal activity away from Metro-West...perhaps to the HOA's discussed in the article I referenced. "Under normal circumstances gated communities are generally safer than non-gated communities," Bechtel said. "But we have had an upswing in residential burglaries in the last month in gated communities, so they don't always prevent crime." " As a matter of fact the Orlando police are very busy in a very small percentge of areas. It's the "20% cause 80% of the problems" rule. In Orlando, the vast majority of crime is in the Pine Hills area. Those HOAs went defunct years ago. Other older areas with strong HOAs are almost never heard of in the news because there is very little crime there. Everyone in Orlando knows where Pine Hills, along with a few other names that always come up in the news. It's always the same small percentage. If there are any statistics, I would gamble real money on Robert's suspicion.

KevinK1

Posts:34

09/22/2007 12:33 PM
Posted By DJ1 on 09/17/2007 1:32 PM Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM To all, It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion. However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA. Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties. Robert, wouldn't it be fairer to compare two entities that are as close as possible to one another then? ie. Compare a 'well run' HOA with a 'well run' non-HOA community otherwise comparing a 'well run' HOA with a poorly run non-HOA isn't a fair comparison. (the latter run by local gov't I presume) Let's take Holden Heights in Orlando as a good example. On the west side of Orange Blossom trail, Holden Heights with no HOAs has rampant crime. On the East side of Orange Blossom Trail, Holden Heights with some very strong HOAs, has much less crime. They are a couple blocks apart separated by the road and a block of businesses on wach side of the street. Are the crooks just too lazy to cross the street and walk two blocks? No, they are going where there is less chance of getting shot or arrested. Robert, I'm with you. I even lived in an area where our neighborhood was the only one with an active HOA. We had less crime than just two or three blocks away. If a criminal has a choice between two targets, he will take the easier one.

KevinK1

Posts:34

09/22/2007 12:39 PM
I've never had a bad HOA experience. We have a couple of problem residents in our neighborhood. They keep pushing and pushing with violations, but the HOA keeps them pretty much in line. If not for our HOA, the people on each side of the problems would have moved long agao, and we would have six problems, then 10, then...

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/22/2007 1:07 PM
JaneK and all, Well, it looks like there is sure some defeciencies that are basic to all HOA's and condos. I honestly believe we are the result of poor legislation to begin with and then just photocopied from state to state by whoever had a financial interest in the process. Changes were made to maximize profits by individuals and the money interest ran the show at the State House level. How many times have we heard and seen on this site someone post, "This is still America and I have certain rights that allow me to do, etc, etc."? Not an unusual exclamation, I had a Real Estate Lawyer e-mail me and tell me that, no kidding. He said this country was founded on majority rules. Well it don't work that way in a HOA, and it probably shouldn't. But when the Founding Fathers sat down to write our constition and produced our doctrines, they had bigger fish to fry than "the bottom line." Our county decided at one point years ago to appoint a large group of citizens from all walks of life to formulate a Comphrehensive Plan to control growth. Most thinking folks thought it was a wonderful fair and reasonable approach and a document that would behave as it was constructed. But, it got eroded by special interests and we are suffering like rapid growth areas (just like HOA's suffer from too much of a good thing). The differences are: as I see it, The comprehensive plan was a strong document and now the area is taking a second look at growth and going back and taking the powerful elements from the original plan and merging them to some of the new lessons they learned from explosive growth. They are starting to appoint citizens committees again, in fact one nearby county is allowing no new growth until they have adequate legislation to protect the people and the land. I hope they will address HOA's and condo's. We don't need BOD or Lawyers or, management companies and politicians and developers to formulate our laws, we need the folks experienced in living the life to have a share in what laws are passed. Nothing I have seen on this site that discribes fault can not be addressed with adequate legislation. We are floundering around folks, trying to make sense out of someone else's logic or illogical self conceived acts or desires. Few lived it a democratic society until America was born. We succeeded because of the people and our desire to live peacefully. We lived by our doctrines, it is impossible to live under the documents we are presented with and not run aground. It will be fixed, it will take time, it will take people and we may have to start all over again with some smart money having the vision of seeing the potential in a well run HOA. ALL would benifit.

LouiseH1
(South Carolina)

Posts:13

09/23/2007 6:20 PM
Allen, I have not heard of anyone that has had a great experience. I have posted a problem we are having and some of your terms apply. I feel that when a covenant is written it was in the favor of the declarant/developer. Unfortunately, this "power" is then passed on to 3 to 5 people. More times that not, these people are power hungry. We have a small community in comparison to some in our area. We have now formed a committee and the number is growing to put pressure on this Board. The other problem...if you don't meet a quorum a Board can stay there indefinitely. Homeowners cannot be complacent and sit back and take it. I don't think most realize when we sign on in these HOA communities to what extent we give up some of our Consitutional rights and one is the Pursuit of Happiness. I firmly believe we need to start with our state representatives and start demanding a change in the powers of these HOA's. Louise

MichelleC4
(Oklahoma)

Posts:7

09/23/2007 6:38 PM
I would have to say that our experience has been postitive. In fact all of the HOA's in town banded together to form the HOA Alliance of Norman. The result is we got a mayor with significantly less money elected! The opposing side (the developers had running the town for years)

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/23/2007 7:28 PM
Louise and Michelle, Louise: I think you are starting to see the root problems, that being Legislation. I am sure you have read Michelle's post. Michelle, You are talking big time action now. I can imagine how difficult it would be in some places to do what you all did, and I am sure you all had your problems. But you did it and you all deserve thanks from more people than you can imagine by showing the way to go. You are no longer those strange rich people that live in associations in order to keep the rif raff out. You are now a political force that demand their rights. Get that new mayor to use his powers to help your HOA's out from under your unproductive form of control, that was bad when the documents were written and now that the developers have gone, has been held together with patches by the state to escape a crises and please any special interest except the Homeowner. A job well done.

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