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AllenP1
(Oregon)

Posts:10

09/16/2007 8:09 AM
I have yet to read any positive comments about HOA's (and certainly none from me). I'm just wondering if anyone belongs to an HOA that doesn't have manipulative, corrupt, self serving, or non committal BOD members. Is there a happy family out there?

KathyS
(California)

Posts:142

09/16/2007 8:31 AM
Friday's Sacramento Bee had an article about incentives builders are giving in order to lure new homeowners. Part of the artile was about HOA's...."Here and statewide, it's become increasingly difficult to buy a house that isn't attached to a homeowner association. In California, about 60 percent of all new housing starts are under the control of a HOA. That means asking sales agents what your HOA monthly dues would be -- to cover mowing the lawn, keeping up the community pool and enforcing the association rules -- has become a routine part of house hunting. But will an HOA make you happy? Not according to a recent survey that shows 69 percent of respondents are annoyed by homeowner associations and their regulations. According to ServiceMagic.com, which connects consumers to home service professionals, nearly three-fourths felt an HOA imposes on their rights by dictating what they can and can't do with their properties. Sixty percent said they had avoided or would avoid buying a house that comes with HOA rules. On the other hand, there's always another survey. In 2005, a Virginia-based HOA trade group, Community Associations Institute, said its survey showed 71 percent of residents rated their HOA as a positive experience. About one in four respondents said the best thing about an HOA was that it offered a maintenance-free lifestyle. According to the institute, 57 million Americans live in HOA-governed neighborhoods. California has 40,000 homeowner associations, reports the Montclair-based California Association of Homeowner Associations. CAHA chief Richard Monson says many residents like the uniformity that HOA standards bring to a neighborhood." I have told everyone I know that is looking for a home to avoid an HOA at all costs. I live in a single family detached home HOA and there is never a day that goes by, someone isn't complaining about what the HOA is or isn't doing. More than anything, most of the people who live here hate the manager driving around, deciding who is in violation of some rule or CC&R and then receiving a violation letter for her perception. One incident really miffed me. I was working in the yard and had a pile of leaves I hadn't bagged yet. I walked in the house and she drove by. A couple of days later, I received a violation letter in the mail stating I had a pile of leaves in the yard. Far be it, the association rakes up all the leaves in the common areas immediately or fixes the fences or picks up the garbage or, or, or..... It's too bad homeowners can't send the association violation letters.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

09/16/2007 8:44 AM
Allen: I am for the most part happy with my HOA.

RebeccaM1
(Florida)

Posts:43

09/16/2007 8:49 AM
No. No HOA is without its share of "manipulative, corrupt, self serving, or non committal" members. To be fair though, neither is any other municipality or community, HOA or not. Well...to be really fair, neither is any other facet of life. We encounter this behavior everywhere. It's only that much more disheartening in an HOA because it touches our homes. In Community Association living we want to believe that we would be shielded from the negatives of the outside world within our homes and communities. I imagine the initial theory of Community Assoc. living was just that, a place to retreat. I think most homeowners still buy into an HOA seeking peace and relief of sorts... from unkept lawns and pink flamingo lawn ornaments to crime-laden street corners and neighborhood used-car lots? As we all have read, the life of an HOA resident is, more times than not, quite a reach from the Utopia they thought they were buying into. What can we do about it? Probably nothing. It is the worst of our human nature to be self-serving. It is a shame though. The idea behind an HOA is a great one. I still believe that there is potential in these communities, but then, I am not yet jaded by them. I have some fight left in me.

HaroldS1
(Arizona)

Posts:314

09/16/2007 9:43 AM
An HOA is more personal than a city, county or state government due to the fact it is your neighbors who are enforcing the rules that control what you can and cannot do with your own property. The CAI survey used to claim 90% were happy with their HOAs. Now I see they are admitting to 70%. Most people don't much care what happens UNTIL they get a violation letter. Then they quickly join the "anti" statistic. So every violation letter that goes out creates resentment and pounds another nail into the coffin. Many people firmly believe an HOA's sole function should be to maintain the common areas. You never see a real estate ad shouting "THIS PROPERTY HAS AN HOA." But you do see ads shouting "NO HOA." I wonder why? And then there are the BODs that allow their enforcement agenda to become a media frenzy. We are our own worst enemy. Harold

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

09/16/2007 10:28 AM
CAI asked homeowners in a HOA if they like it...HO says no...HOA starts to target said HO. Now would you really answer honestly? "nearly three-fourths felt an HOA imposes on their rights by dictating what they can and can't do with their properties" Uh, that is what CCR's do, dictate what owners can/cannot do with their properties! Geesh.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/16/2007 11:34 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned the effect of HOA on the surrounding communities. The county and city or town. I strongly suspect a well run HOA has a smaller percentage, of police calls, fire reports, etc. Just say 70 % are happy in HOA, but that has to be extended and add compared to what. So lets compare it to an inner city area, also a rural area, or within a towns limits. I'm not suggesting we are comparing equal life styles, I am saying in any community some are going to be unhappy. But the county government must love them, they all them all of the place. For all the reasons that have been mentioned here folks can dislike the HOA and our concerns should be to make our community livable and well managed, not to control all the people but to accomodate all the people. An in possible task but good leadership can produce better than 70%. When you move into a small town or city anywhere in this county the city official are subject to the same kind of commentary as at a BOD meeting.....no different. Just a matter of degrees. If you are living in a Condo or HOA you don't like (just like a town or city)move or get involved and make changes. You want to hear some complaints in an HOA or Condo or City, just let the Leaders decide to do nothing.

JohnC10
(Arizona)

Posts:106

09/16/2007 11:58 AM
Posted By KathyS on 09/16/2007 8:31 AM It's too bad homeowners can't send the association violation letters. But they can, I have many times. I've even sent the President a violation letter for leaving his trash can out. If the property is regularly maintained, looks good, and is a credit to the neighborhood what good does it do to remind the owner that a weed popped up between scheduled maintanence? That's the point I try to get across to them. It tends to work and ocassionaly you have to break in a new manager.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

09/16/2007 12:10 PM
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/16/2007 11:34 AM I don't think anyone has mentioned the effect of HOA on the surrounding communities. The county and city or town. I strongly suspect a well run HOA has a smaller percentage, of police calls, fire reports, etc. Just say 70 % are happy in HOA, but that has to be extended and add compared to what. So lets compare it to an inner city area, also a rural area, or within a towns limits. I'm not suggesting we are comparing equal life styles, I am saying in any community some are going to be unhappy. But the county government must love them, they all them all of the place. For all the reasons that have been mentioned here folks can dislike the HOA and our concerns should be to make our community livable and well managed, not to control all the people but to accomodate all the people. An in possible task but good leadership can produce better than 70%. When you move into a small town or city anywhere in this county the city official are subject to the same kind of commentary as at a BOD meeting.....no different. Just a matter of degrees. If you are living in a Condo or HOA you don't like (just like a town or city)move or get involved and make changes. You want to hear some complaints in an HOA or Condo or City, just let the Leaders decide to do nothing. Fewer police calls etc eh? The HOA in this article might not feel that way. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpgate0915pnsep15,0,3784121.story

HaroldS1
(Arizona)

Posts:314

09/16/2007 12:49 PM
Interesting story. But I wonder if the lady can gate her own property. I would doubt it. Harold

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/16/2007 1:42 PM
DJ1: And your example proves what? I suspect it proves the people commiting the crime are not from the HOA. Maybe it proves there should be measures to protect the neighborhood. But the crimes you speak of are not specific to HOA's. I live in a gated community on an island and for years we never locked our doors and cars. You do not do that now, and not because of the HOA, it is because more and more rental properties bring more and more people. And I am not saying rental folks cause any more crime on a whole than Home owners. I am saying that a neighborhood well managed can control the crime in the neighbordhood caused by residents of that neighborhood if you have an active association and owners that care enough.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

09/16/2007 5:17 PM
Robert, Hmmm, if I was a criminal would I look to break into an inner city home or perhaps a home in a higher income bracket...say a HOA?

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/16/2007 5:27 PM
I'm sorry DJ1 but I see no need to enter into some non-productive guessing game. My posting is just my opinion, nothing more, some will agree, some will not, so be it.

KevinK1

Posts:34

09/16/2007 5:44 PM
I used to live in a neighborhood with a voluntary association. The association was basically dead and it was like no HOA at all. Many people complained about illegally parked cars, garbage piled outside garages, and the neglected entranceway to our neighborhood. A few of us got together and found out there were rules we were supposed to be following. We had meetings, contacted the county about zoning violations, collected dues, and got our entranceway cleaned up. I thought that experience was wonderful. The neighborhood was a better place afterwards. Although those who had junk cars in their driveway probably weren’t so happy and thought the HOA experience was a nightmare. I now live in a neighborhood where the HOA has a stronger presence. People still complain that things aren’t perfect and there are about 10% of the residents who think the HOA is a nazi organization that should be abolished. But the other 90% love that violation notices are sent, they love that we work to silence barking dogs, move illegally parked cars, get weedy lawns mowed, get owners to hide boats and trailers, and watch out for home values. I love HOAs. I moved to this neighborhood because it had rules. At one point I didn’t think the board members were following the rules correctly so I ran for a board position and was elected. I do my best to follow the rules and the 90% of residents who follow the rules love me and the 10% who don’t hate me. I think I have higher standards than most about how my home looks. If someone does something to fix their place up, I feel I need to make my place look as good. There are those who look around the neighborhood and see the crappiest example and decide they don’t have to do anything more than that. They say “why should I follow this rule if so-and-so isn’t following that rule”? I expect the people who love HOAs are those who emulate the best in the neighborhood and those who hate HOAs are those who emulate the worst in the neighborhood and don’t get involved. Everyone seems to have a story about one bad example from their point of view, but overall I would rather not live in a neighborhood without an HOA. The benefits far outweigh the negatives.

KevinK1

Posts:34

09/16/2007 5:56 PM
Fewer police calls etc eh? The HOA in this article might not feel that way. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpgate0915pnsep15,0,3784121.story You neglected to mention that it is the county's responsibility for law enforcement and they were not effective in stopping crime. It was the HOA that was taking action to stop the crime, even though it was not their duty. In Orlando, FL effectively all the nice expensive neighborhoods have active associations. And effectively all the crime-ridden areas have no active associations. There was recently a spike in crime in a large association controlled area called Metro-West. The association took matters into their own hands, hired security patrols, officers, and increased security at entranceways. They have reduced the crime activity while the rest of the areas in Orlando without associations continue to see crime increase.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:758

09/16/2007 5:56 PM
This board is designed to help people with problems or issues, hence the vast majority of writers are having issues with their CA or their CA is having issues with an owner. "News" is the exception to everyday life reporters know that nice stories don't make the front or main page. They are also under no obligation to present both sides and often don't. Don't read too much into the ServiceMagic survey. It wasn't random, just questions posted on their web site. People who aren't having any problems had no reason to go there, so it was skewed. CAI had a survey done by an outside agency that said just the opposite, but then, those who write the questions control a survey's outcome to a great degree. People hate their association, tolerate their association and love their association, and it may change from year-to-year depending on any of a thousand variables. If you took all of the problems presented on this board from the day it started, it wouldn't cover about 1/1000 or a percent of the decisions and interactions that take place on a daily basis in community associations around the country. The anomolies are not the rule. They just don't make good tabloid news. Yes there are problems that need to be addressed, but community associations, in and of themselves, are not the "Evil Empire" Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

LarryM3
(California)

Posts:31

09/16/2007 8:06 PM
Allen, I have been on a board for the last four years. I would guess that 90% of the owners appreciate what the board does and the other 10% thinks we are idiots no matter what we do. On the other hand: I think 90 % of the owners care about our properties and the other 10% it just doesnt' matter. If you want it to be good, it can be good . If you think it is bad , it will be bad. What do you want ? That is what IT CAN BE. Good luck. Volunteer, no matter how bad it can be. Only you can make a difference. I hate the complainers that won't try to help either on a committee or by other means. It can only be as good as the effort YOU put into it Larry

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1700

09/16/2007 8:24 PM
Interesting. I've had good HOA experiences; I've had bad HOA experiences; I've had good NON-HOA experiences; I've had bad NON-HOA experiences. I've had good auto repair experiences. I've had bad auto repair experiences. I've had good experiences with dentists. I've had bad experiences with dentists. I've had good experiences at the Mall. I've had bad experiences at the Mall. Really, sincerely, what IS the point of your question?

TracyT
(Maryland)

Posts:220

09/16/2007 8:35 PM
I am living in my third HOA. I bought into HOAs because I don't want the junk or unkempt yards, trash cans in view or eroding exteriors etc. Other than those types of items, our CCRs have very few restrictions. However, in this relatively new HOA, there are people who have a personal agenda to "over" regulate. Here's an example that is different than my problem (law suit). I learned of this when I went door-to-door to collect proxies for my husband to elected to BOD. Neighbor A has their home for sale. Potential buyers inquire about neighbor Bs junk in their backyard. Neighbor A gets B to build a shed and store the junk but B is quibbling with the CC/BOD about the type of door on the shed! I am not the only unhappy camper in my HOA! Now if only my PSL for the Ravens, entitled me (or my husband - the real sports genious) to a vote on play calling that would be something!

AllenP1
(Oregon)

Posts:10

09/16/2007 9:12 PM
Wow, lot's of responses and views. I'm an off-site owner; the worst of the worst as far as the BOD are concerned at my HOA. Yes, they've said that to me. Issues I have with my HOA. 1. Obvious and blatant favoritism granted to those that side with BOD decisions. For instance, there are strict laws about repairing cars in the parking lot (e.g., changing oil, body work, etc). The husband of a BOD member does this all the time though. The difference? "It's their hobby, and they have a right to a hobby". For Christ sake, give me a break. A neighbor was levied a fine for putting in new head lights. 2. My HOA has committee's for the sole purpose of looking for violations. The other day at a meeting one of the committee members said, "I think the deck on unit 57 looks really trashy with the Bar-B-Q sitting on the deck. I think it's time we issue them a fine". I said, "you have one as well on your deck". "Sure", she said, "but mine is a much nicer looking Bar-B-Q and isn't an eye sore". So the issue isn't the Bar-B-Q, but rather one of preference. Great, preference fines? 3. Satellite dishes are not permitted. Everyone must use Comcast. Nothing like choice. Isn't this America? 4. Questions regarding finances can be asked at meetings, but copies of financial information is not available. They are private. If they're private, why can we ask questions?

HaroldS1
(Arizona)

Posts:314

09/16/2007 11:03 PM
"Satellite dishes are not permitted." Not so. Federal law supersedes your CC&Rs. They can control where you place it, but at the same time that location must give good reception or another spot will have to allowed. What state are you in? Arizona and many other states have laws allowing members to get most documents, certainly financial, from your HOA. Check your state statues. Harold

AllenP1
(Oregon)

Posts:10

09/16/2007 11:58 PM
Satellite dishes cannot be placed on common areas such as roof tops. If one can get reception on their deck, they're in luck. BUT...the top of the dish cannot exceed the height of the deck fence. Given these constraints only a few can use them in my HOA. I'm in Oregon.

MaryN
(Virginia)

Posts:125

09/17/2007 3:55 AM
The CAI survey in Virginia. Who filled out the survey? I believe it was sent to BOD's..not the individual owners. HOA's are a great concept. I live in one and have owned property in several. If and when I move I will not even consider living in another HOA. MaryN

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2148

09/17/2007 4:44 AM
AllenP You are correct for Condominiums. I do not think in an HOA there would be any Limited Common areas (Deck) involved. However if there were Townhouses involved it would depend on the deed to the townhouses that are attached.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:758

09/17/2007 5:38 AM
Mary, the CAI survey was done by phone to randomly selected people living in community associations, not just board memers, but it did include people from both condos and HOA's. Goes back to my opinion that condo owners have fewer problems with their association than HOA owners. They move in knowing that an association is going to have some sort of impact on their personal life. Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

EdieL
(Virginia)

Posts:72

09/17/2007 5:46 AM
All HOA's go through growing pains. While going through these growing pains, you will get BOD members that take the "I am fully in Charge" attitude. It is always hoped that the growing pains will only last a few years, however there are times that the only ones running for seats on a BOD are the social clicks in the community. In that situation the "I am in charge" situation continues.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

09/17/2007 6:55 AM
KevinK1, We weren't discussing 'who's' responsibility crime which is why I wouldn't raise it. Robert's suspicion is that there would be more police calls to non-hoa than hoa homes. Maybe, maybe not. I just figure the 'take' would be bigger on a HOA than non-HOA home although the risks would also be higher as you pointed out this HOA security patrols in a particular HOA. I'm not sure if I correctly recall that ~60% of US homeowners living in some type of regulated community. Boy the Police must be very busy with crime in the other 40% then. "Bechtel warned that gates don't always keep crime out and can give residents a false sense of security. In your example, Orlando, they have apparently shifted the criminal activity away from Metro-West...perhaps to the HOA's discussed in the article I referenced. "Under normal circumstances gated communities are generally safer than non-gated communities," Bechtel said. "But we have had an upswing in residential burglaries in the last month in gated communities, so they don't always prevent crime." "

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

09/17/2007 7:14 AM
I agree 100% with DJ. We are a gated community and on average the deputy sheriffs are on the property at least 20 times a month. This last month was a doozy,70+ times. We had a guy running around with a gun and a stabbing, plus a couple of pit bulls killing 5 cats. Gates ARE a false sense of security especially when the majority of your guards are 50+ in age and really can't do anything but observe and write tickets.

KarenT
(Washington)

Posts:57

09/17/2007 8:23 AM
Allen, I personally love being in a HOA because there are "rules" as stated by a few of the replies you've already rec'd. I also agree that the majority of the homeowners who are happy with their HOA. The 10%+- who are not happen to be the ones who NEVER PARTICIPATE in any of the meetings, cause problems with their neighbors and only care about themselves. HOA are communities and as such everyone has a stake in what happens and how they are managed. It's like when you vote for the President of the US - don't complain if you don't vote!!

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/17/2007 8:24 AM
Posted By JanM on 09/17/2007 7:14 AM I agree 100% with DJ. We are a gated community and on average the deputy sheriffs are on the property at least 20 times a month. This last month was a doozy,70+ times. We had a guy running around with a gun and a stabbing, plus a couple of pit bulls killing 5 cats. Gates ARE a false sense of security especially when the majority of your guards are 50+ in age and really can't do anything but observe and write tickets. The statement that “gates ARE a false sense of security” isn’t entirely TRUE!. It is unfortunate that you and a few others have had these unforeseeable troubles within your community. Although, I would have to say that the gates certainly do deter criminal behavior, much of what you speak of. Unfortunately there are lunatics living in and around all of us, HOA or otherwise, therefore we (as a community) must work together to make living enjoyable and safe for all. HOA's do give many that security. I’m certainly not claiming that gated communities don’t have violence, but I am claiming that they do decrease SOME criminal activity. As does Speed limit signs don’t stop speeders, but they do decrease the number of people that feel that they can, therefore PREVENTING MANY HIGH SPEED RELATED ACCIDENTS! Security signs don’t prevent burglary, but they do deter those from breaking and entering. NO TRESPASSING signs don’t prevent another person from enter, but it does deter SOME from entering the property illegally. I could go on and on, as I’m sure you could as well! Many things are developed to (not necessary eliminate), but to reduce. HOA community or not there will always be some form of violent behavior, its inevitable! Chuck W –AKA Guy with the head injury

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

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