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AllenP1 (Oregon)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I have yet to read any positive comments about HOA's (and certainly none from me). I'm just wondering if anyone belongs to an HOA that doesn't have manipulative, corrupt, self serving, or non committal BOD members. Is there a happy family out there?
KathyS (California)
Posts: 145
Posted:
Friday's Sacramento Bee had an article about incentives builders are giving in order to lure new homeowners. Part of the artile was about HOA's...."Here and statewide, it's become increasingly difficult to buy a house that isn't attached to a homeowner association. In California, about 60 percent of all new housing starts are under the control of a HOA.

That means asking sales agents what your HOA monthly dues would be -- to cover mowing the lawn, keeping up the community pool and enforcing the association rules -- has become a routine part of house hunting.

But will an HOA make you happy? Not according to a recent survey that shows 69 percent of respondents are annoyed by homeowner associations and their regulations. According to ServiceMagic.com, which connects consumers to home service professionals, nearly three-fourths felt an HOA imposes on their rights by dictating what they can and can't do with their properties. Sixty percent said they had avoided or would avoid buying a house that comes with HOA rules.

On the other hand, there's always another survey. In 2005, a Virginia-based HOA trade group, Community Associations Institute, said its survey showed 71 percent of residents rated their HOA as a positive experience. About one in four respondents said the best thing about an HOA was that it offered a maintenance-free lifestyle.

According to the institute, 57 million Americans live in HOA-governed neighborhoods.

California has 40,000 homeowner associations, reports the Montclair-based California Association of Homeowner Associations. CAHA chief Richard Monson says many residents like the uniformity that HOA standards bring to a neighborhood."

I have told everyone I know that is looking for a home to avoid an HOA at all costs. I live in a single family detached home HOA and there is never a day that goes by, someone isn't complaining about what the HOA is or isn't doing. More than anything, most of the people who live here hate the manager driving around, deciding who is in violation of some rule or CC&R and then receiving a violation letter for her perception.

One incident really miffed me. I was working in the yard and had a pile of leaves I hadn't bagged yet. I walked in the house and she drove by. A couple of days later, I received a violation letter in the mail stating I had a pile of leaves in the yard.

Far be it, the association rakes up all the leaves in the common areas immediately or fixes the fences or picks up the garbage or, or, or..... It's too bad homeowners can't send the association violation letters.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Allen:

I am for the most part happy with my HOA.
RebeccaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 43
Posted:
No. No HOA is without its share of "manipulative, corrupt, self serving, or non committal" members. To be fair though, neither is any other municipality or community, HOA or not. Well...to be really fair, neither is any other facet of life.

We encounter this behavior everywhere. It's only that much more disheartening in an HOA because it touches our homes. In Community Association living we want to believe that we would be shielded from the negatives of the outside world within our homes and communities. I imagine the initial theory of Community Assoc. living was just that, a place to retreat. I think most homeowners still buy into an HOA seeking peace and relief of sorts... from unkept lawns and pink flamingo lawn ornaments to crime-laden street corners and neighborhood used-car lots? As we all have read, the life of an HOA resident is, more times than not, quite a reach from the Utopia they thought they were buying into.

What can we do about it? Probably nothing. It is the worst of our human nature to be self-serving. It is a shame though. The idea behind an HOA is a great one. I still believe that there is potential in these communities, but then, I am not yet jaded by them. I have some fight left in me.

HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
An HOA is more personal than a city, county or state government due to the fact it is your neighbors who are enforcing the rules that control what you can and cannot do with your own property.
The CAI survey used to claim 90% were happy with their HOAs. Now I see they are admitting to 70%. Most people don't much care what happens UNTIL they get a violation letter. Then they quickly join the "anti" statistic. So every violation letter that goes out creates resentment and pounds another nail into the coffin. Many people firmly believe an HOA's sole function should be to maintain the common areas.
You never see a real estate ad shouting "THIS PROPERTY HAS AN HOA." But you do see ads shouting "NO HOA." I wonder why?
And then there are the BODs that allow their enforcement agenda to become a media frenzy. We are our own worst enemy. Harold
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
CAI asked homeowners in a HOA if they like it...HO says no...HOA starts to target said HO.

Now would you really answer honestly?

"nearly three-fourths felt an HOA imposes on their rights by dictating what they can and can't do with their properties"

Uh, that is what CCR's do, dictate what owners can/cannot do with their properties! Geesh.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I don't think anyone has mentioned the effect of HOA on the surrounding communities. The county and city or town. I strongly suspect a well run HOA has a smaller percentage, of police calls, fire reports, etc. Just say 70 % are happy in HOA, but that has to be extended and add compared to what. So lets compare it to an inner city area, also a rural area, or within a towns limits. I'm not suggesting we are comparing equal life styles, I am saying in any community some are going to be unhappy. But the county government must love them, they all them all of the place. For all the reasons that have been mentioned here folks can dislike the HOA and our concerns should be to make our community livable and well managed, not to control all the people but to accomodate all the people. An in possible task but good leadership can produce better than 70%. When you move into a small town or city anywhere in this county the city official are subject to the same kind of commentary as at a BOD meeting.....no different. Just a matter of degrees. If you are living in a Condo or HOA you don't like (just like a town or city)move or get involved and make changes. You want to hear some complaints in an HOA or Condo or City, just let the Leaders decide to do nothing.
JohnC10 (Arizona)
Posts: 106
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathyS on 09/16/2007 8:31 AM
It's too bad homeowners can't send the association violation letters.

But they can, I have many times. I've even sent the President a violation letter for leaving his trash can out.

If the property is regularly maintained, looks good, and is a credit to the neighborhood what good does it do to remind the owner that a weed popped up between scheduled maintanence? That's the point I try to get across to them. It tends to work and ocassionaly you have to break in a new manager.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/16/2007 11:34 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned the effect of HOA on the surrounding communities. The county and city or town. I strongly suspect a well run HOA has a smaller percentage, of police calls, fire reports, etc. Just say 70 % are happy in HOA, but that has to be extended and add compared to what. So lets compare it to an inner city area, also a rural area, or within a towns limits. I'm not suggesting we are comparing equal life styles, I am saying in any community some are going to be unhappy. But the county government must love them, they all them all of the place. For all the reasons that have been mentioned here folks can dislike the HOA and our concerns should be to make our community livable and well managed, not to control all the people but to accomodate all the people. An in possible task but good leadership can produce better than 70%. When you move into a small town or city anywhere in this county the city official are subject to the same kind of commentary as at a BOD meeting.....no different. Just a matter of degrees. If you are living in a Condo or HOA you don't like (just like a town or city)move or get involved and make changes. You want to hear some complaints in an HOA or Condo or City, just let the Leaders decide to do nothing.

Fewer police calls etc eh? The HOA in this article might not feel that way.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpgate0915pnsep15,0,3784121.story
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
Interesting story. But I wonder if the lady can gate her own property. I would doubt it. Harold
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
DJ1:
And your example proves what? I suspect it proves the people commiting the crime are not from the HOA. Maybe it proves there should be measures to protect the neighborhood. But the crimes you speak of are not specific to HOA's. I live in a gated community on an island and for years we never locked our doors and cars. You do not do that now, and not because of the HOA, it is because more and more rental properties bring more and more people. And I am not saying rental folks cause any more crime on a whole than Home owners. I am saying that a neighborhood well managed can control the crime in the neighbordhood caused by residents of that neighborhood if you have an active association and owners that care enough.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Robert,

Hmmm, if I was a criminal would I look to break into an inner city home or perhaps a home in a higher income bracket...say a HOA?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I'm sorry DJ1 but I see no need to enter into some non-productive guessing game. My posting is just my opinion, nothing more, some will agree, some will not, so be it.
KevinK1 (< Not Specified >)
Posts: 34
Posted:
I used to live in a neighborhood with a voluntary association. The association was basically dead and it was like no HOA at all. Many people complained about illegally parked cars, garbage piled outside garages, and the neglected entranceway to our neighborhood. A few of us got together and found out there were rules we were supposed to be following. We had meetings, contacted the county about zoning violations, collected dues, and got our entranceway cleaned up. I thought that experience was wonderful. The neighborhood was a better place afterwards. Although those who had junk cars in their driveway probably weren’t so happy and thought the HOA experience was a nightmare.
I now live in a neighborhood where the HOA has a stronger presence. People still complain that things aren’t perfect and there are about 10% of the residents who think the HOA is a nazi organization that should be abolished. But the other 90% love that violation notices are sent, they love that we work to silence barking dogs, move illegally parked cars, get weedy lawns mowed, get owners to hide boats and trailers, and watch out for home values.
I love HOAs. I moved to this neighborhood because it had rules. At one point I didn’t think the board members were following the rules correctly so I ran for a board position and was elected. I do my best to follow the rules and the 90% of residents who follow the rules love me and the 10% who don’t hate me.
I think I have higher standards than most about how my home looks. If someone does something to fix their place up, I feel I need to make my place look as good. There are those who look around the neighborhood and see the crappiest example and decide they don’t have to do anything more than that. They say ā€œwhy should I follow this rule if so-and-so isn’t following that ruleā€? I expect the people who love HOAs are those who emulate the best in the neighborhood and those who hate HOAs are those who emulate the worst in the neighborhood and don’t get involved.
Everyone seems to have a story about one bad example from their point of view, but overall I would rather not live in a neighborhood without an HOA. The benefits far outweigh the negatives.
KevinK1 (< Not Specified >)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Fewer police calls etc eh? The HOA in this article might not feel that way.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpgate0915pnsep15,0,3784121.story

You neglected to mention that it is the county's responsibility for law enforcement and they were not effective in stopping crime. It was the HOA that was taking action to stop the crime, even though it was not their duty.
In Orlando, FL effectively all the nice expensive neighborhoods have active associations. And effectively all the crime-ridden areas have no active associations.
There was recently a spike in crime in a large association controlled area called Metro-West. The association took matters into their own hands, hired security patrols, officers, and increased security at entranceways. They have reduced the crime activity while the rest of the areas in Orlando without associations continue to see crime increase.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
This board is designed to help people with problems or issues, hence the vast majority of writers are having issues with their CA or their CA is having issues with an owner. "News" is the exception to everyday life reporters know that nice stories don't make the front or main page. They are also under no obligation to present both sides and often don't. Don't read too much into the ServiceMagic survey. It wasn't random, just questions posted on their web site. People who aren't having any problems had no reason to go there, so it was skewed. CAI had a survey done by an outside agency that said just the opposite, but then, those who write the questions control a survey's outcome to a great degree.

People hate their association, tolerate their association and love their association, and it may change from year-to-year depending on any of a thousand variables.

If you took all of the problems presented on this board from the day it started, it wouldn't cover about 1/1000 or a percent of the decisions and interactions that take place on a daily basis in community associations around the country. The anomolies are not the rule. They just don't make good tabloid news.

Yes there are problems that need to be addressed, but community associations, in and of themselves, are not the "Evil Empire"

Joe


Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net

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LarryM3 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Allen, I have been on a board for the last four years. I would guess that 90% of the owners appreciate what the board does and the other 10% thinks we are idiots no matter what we do.
On the other hand: I think 90 % of the owners care about our properties and the other 10% it just doesnt' matter.
If you want it to be good, it can be good . If you think it is bad , it will be bad. What do you want ? That is what IT CAN BE. Good luck. Volunteer, no matter how bad it can be. Only you can make a difference. I hate the complainers that won't try to help either on a committee or by other means.
It can only be as good as the effort YOU put into it
Larry
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Interesting.

I've had good HOA experiences; I've had bad HOA experiences; I've had good NON-HOA experiences; I've had bad NON-HOA experiences.

I've had good auto repair experiences.

I've had bad auto repair experiences.

I've had good experiences with dentists.

I've had bad experiences with dentists.

I've had good experiences at the Mall.

I've had bad experiences at the Mall.

Really, sincerely, what IS the point of your question?

TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228
Posted:
I am living in my third HOA. I bought into HOAs because I don't want the junk or unkempt yards, trash cans in view or eroding exteriors etc. Other than those types of items, our CCRs have very few restrictions.

However, in this relatively new HOA, there are people who have a personal agenda to "over" regulate.

Here's an example that is different than my problem (law suit). I learned of this when I went door-to-door to collect proxies for my husband to elected to BOD.

Neighbor A has their home for sale. Potential buyers inquire about neighbor Bs junk in their backyard. Neighbor A gets B to build a shed and store the junk but B is quibbling with the CC/BOD about the type of door on the shed!

I am not the only unhappy camper in my HOA!

Now if only my PSL for the Ravens, entitled me (or my husband - the real sports genious) to a vote on play calling that would be something!
AllenP1 (Oregon)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Wow, lot's of responses and views. I'm an off-site owner; the worst of the worst as far as the BOD are concerned at my HOA. Yes, they've said that to me. Issues I have with my HOA.

1. Obvious and blatant favoritism granted to those that side with BOD decisions. For instance, there are strict laws about repairing cars in the parking lot (e.g., changing oil, body work, etc). The husband of a BOD member does this all the time though. The difference? "It's their hobby, and they have a right to a hobby". For Christ sake, give me a break. A neighbor was levied a fine for putting in new head lights.

2. My HOA has committee's for the sole purpose of looking for violations. The other day at a meeting one of the committee members said, "I think the deck on unit 57 looks really trashy with the Bar-B-Q sitting on the deck. I think it's time we issue them a fine". I said, "you have one as well on your deck". "Sure", she said, "but mine is a much nicer looking Bar-B-Q and isn't an eye sore". So the issue isn't the Bar-B-Q, but rather one of preference. Great, preference fines?

3. Satellite dishes are not permitted. Everyone must use Comcast. Nothing like choice. Isn't this America?

4. Questions regarding finances can be asked at meetings, but copies of financial information is not available. They are private. If they're private, why can we ask questions?
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
"Satellite dishes are not permitted." Not so. Federal law supersedes your CC&Rs. They can control where you place it, but at the same time that location must give good reception or another spot will have to allowed.
What state are you in? Arizona and many other states have laws allowing members to get most documents, certainly financial, from your HOA. Check your state statues. Harold
AllenP1 (Oregon)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Satellite dishes cannot be placed on common areas such as roof tops. If one can get reception on their deck, they're in luck. BUT...the top of the dish cannot exceed the height of the deck fence. Given these constraints only a few can use them in my HOA. I'm in Oregon.
MaryN (Virginia)
Posts: 125
Posted:
The CAI survey in Virginia. Who filled out the survey? I believe it was sent to BOD's..not the individual owners. HOA's are a great concept. I live in one and have owned property in several. If and when I move I will not even consider living in another HOA.
MaryN
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
AllenP
You are correct for Condominiums.
I do not think in an HOA there would be any Limited Common areas (Deck) involved. However if there were Townhouses involved it would depend on the deed to the townhouses that are attached.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
Mary, the CAI survey was done by phone to randomly selected people living in community associations, not just board memers, but it did include people from both condos and HOA's. Goes back to my opinion that condo owners have fewer problems with their association than HOA owners. They move in knowing that an association is going to have some sort of impact on their personal life.

Joe

Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net

*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal
EdieL (Virginia)
Posts: 86
Posted:
All HOA's go through growing pains. While going through these growing pains, you will get
BOD members that take the "I am fully in Charge" attitude. It is always hoped that the
growing pains will only last a few years, however there are times that the only ones running
for seats on a BOD are the social clicks in the community. In that situation the "I am in charge"
situation continues.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
KevinK1, We weren't discussing 'who's' responsibility crime which is why I wouldn't raise it. Robert's suspicion is that there would be more police calls to non-hoa than hoa homes. Maybe, maybe not. I just figure the 'take' would be bigger on a HOA than non-HOA home although the risks would also be higher as you pointed out this HOA security patrols in a particular HOA.

I'm not sure if I correctly recall that ~60% of US homeowners living in some type of regulated community. Boy the Police must be very busy with crime in the other 40% then.

"Bechtel warned that gates don't always keep crime out and can give residents a false sense of security.

In your example, Orlando, they have apparently shifted the criminal activity away from Metro-West...perhaps to the HOA's discussed in the article I referenced.

"Under normal circumstances gated communities are generally safer than non-gated communities," Bechtel said. "But we have had an upswing in residential burglaries in the last month in gated communities, so they don't always prevent crime." "

JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
I agree 100% with DJ. We are a gated community and on average the deputy sheriffs are on the property at least 20 times a month. This last month was a doozy,70+ times. We had a guy running around with a gun and a stabbing, plus a couple of pit bulls killing 5 cats. Gates ARE a false sense of security especially when the majority of your guards are 50+ in age and really can't do anything but observe and write tickets.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 249
Posted:
Allen,

I personally love being in a HOA because there are "rules" as stated by a few of the replies you've already rec'd. I also agree that the majority of the homeowners who are happy with their HOA. The 10%+- who are not happen to be the ones who NEVER PARTICIPATE in any of the meetings, cause problems with their neighbors and only care about themselves. HOA are communities and as such everyone has a stake in what happens and how they are managed. It's like when you vote for the President of the US - don't complain if you don't vote!!

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanM on 09/17/2007 7:14 AM
I agree 100% with DJ. We are a gated community and on average the deputy sheriffs are on the property at least 20 times a month. This last month was a doozy,70+ times. We had a guy running around with a gun and a stabbing, plus a couple of pit bulls killing 5 cats. Gates ARE a false sense of security especially when the majority of your guards are 50+ in age and really can't do anything but observe and write tickets.

The statement that ā€œgates ARE a false sense of securityā€ isn’t entirely TRUE!. It is unfortunate that you and a few others have had these unforeseeable troubles within your community. Although, I would have to say that the gates certainly do deter criminal behavior, much of what you speak of.

Unfortunately there are lunatics living in and around all of us, HOA or otherwise, therefore we (as a community) must work together to make living enjoyable and safe for all. HOA's do give many that security.

I’m certainly not claiming that gated communities don’t have violence, but I am claiming that they do decrease SOME criminal activity.

As does Speed limit signs don’t stop speeders, but they do decrease the number of people that feel that they can, therefore PREVENTING MANY HIGH SPEED RELATED ACCIDENTS!

Security signs don’t prevent burglary, but they do deter those from breaking and entering.

NO TRESPASSING signs don’t prevent another person from enter, but it does deter SOME from entering the property illegally.

I could go on and on, as I’m sure you could as well!

Many things are developed to (not necessary eliminate), but to reduce. HOA community or not there will always be some form of violent behavior, its inevitable!

Chuck W –AKA Guy with the head injury


Charles E. Wafer Jr.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DJ1 on 09/17/2007 6:55 AM
KevinK1, We weren't discussing 'who's' responsibility crime which is why I wouldn't raise it. Robert's suspicion is that there would be more police calls to non-hoa than hoa homes. Maybe, maybe not. I just figure the 'take' would be bigger on a HOA than non-HOA home although the risks would also be higher as you pointed out this HOA security patrols in a particular HOA.

I'm not sure if I correctly recall that ~60% of US homeowners living in some type of regulated community. Boy the Police must be very busy with crime in the other 40% then.

"Bechtel warned that gates don't always keep crime out and can give residents a false sense of security.

In your example, Orlando, they have apparently shifted the criminal activity away from Metro-West...perhaps to the HOA's discussed in the article I referenced.

"Under normal circumstances gated communities are generally safer than non-gated communities," Bechtel said. "But we have had an upswing in residential burglaries in the last month in gated communities, so they don't always prevent crime." "

ā€œIFā€ you aren’t part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Chuck W.



Charles E. Wafer Jr.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
"the majority of your guards are 50+ in age and really can't do anything but observe and write tickets." LOL. My brother-in-law works as security at a gated community. He is 64 and the week end security guard there is 91. Harold
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AllenP1 on 09/16/2007 11:58 PM
Satellite dishes cannot be placed on common areas such as roof tops. If one can get reception on their deck, they're in luck. BUT...the top of the dish cannot exceed the height of the deck fence. Given these constraints only a few can use them in my HOA. I'm in Oregon.

I think there is a lot more leeway allowed - tale a look at the FCC's OTARD fact sheet, and also take a look at the orders issued (cases) at the end -

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Allen, I agree with Dane. FCC's OTARD overrules your CC&Rs on satellite dishes.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
"Allen, I agree with Dane. FCC's OTARD overrules your CC&Rs on satellite dishes." I thought that's what I said???? Harold

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenT on 09/17/2007 8:23 AM
Allen,

I personally love being in a HOA because there are "rules" as stated by a few of the replies you've already rec'd. I also agree that the majority of the homeowners who are happy with their HOA. The 10%+- who are not happen to be the ones who NEVER PARTICIPATE in any of the meetings, cause problems with their neighbors and only care about themselves. HOA are communities and as such everyone has a stake in what happens and how they are managed. It's like when you vote for the President of the US - don't complain if you don't vote!!


What is that saying about HOA rules, everyone likes them until there is one that they don't agree with...or something like that.

Where did you get the "10%+/- who are not happen to be the ones....". Isn't one of the common recommendations that we see posted here (other than sell & move) is to run for the board to try to implement changes if you don't agree with what is happening in your HOA, and isn't that exactly what some here have done?

It is a disservice to associate those who may be unhappy as the ones causing the problems, never participating etc.

I am embedded within a HOA that has yet to enforce the CCR's. There isn't one home in the HOA including the president's that isn't currently in violatation one or more of the CCR's (everything on our property was approved by default when the Developer failed to respond to our ARC approval so I guess we technically were the only ones in compliance...until we found out the CCR's weren't registered on our title thus excluding us from the HOA). I see some humour in some of the generalizations posted (of course I too make the same mistakes).

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion.

However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA.

Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM
To all,
It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion.

However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA.

Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties.

Robert:

I would agree with that to a point, a well run HOA is more than likely equipped with a neighborhood watch or something of that magnitude and other devices to deter crime. However, a lot has to do with your location and the location of police to you. If you put a well run HOA in the middle of an area known for high drug activity and violence they are most certainly going to have more crime than a poorly run HOA in the middle of nowhere.

JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM
To all,
It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion.

However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA.

Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties.

RobertR1 - How do you make the correlation between a well run HOA and crime rate? Are you suggesting that a poorly run HOA is one that lacks something that a well run HOA has?

A well run service, such as a security guard and gate may have an impact on decreased crime rate but your post above doesn't reference the contributing service/feature.

Non-residents committing a crime on HOA property probably don't have any knowledge of the HOA being well-run.

It's impossible for an HOA to prevent crime in and of itself. That's a tall order to require, especially when there's a will there's always a way. However, it is the HOA's responsibility to maintain and replace the services promised in an association's governing documents that may contribute to crime reduction such as a gate, or that is promised in the association's governing documents. I could also see an HOA informing the residents of criminal activity and or encouraging owners to be aware of behavior, look out for your neighbors, etc.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoeW1 on 09/17/2007 1:02 PM
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM
To all,
It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion.

However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA.

Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties.


RobertR1 - How do you make the correlation between a well run HOA and crime rate? Are you suggesting that a poorly run HOA is one that lacks something that a well run HOA has?

A well run service, such as a security guard and gate may have an impact on decreased crime rate but your post above doesn't reference the contributing service/feature.

Non-residents committing a crime on HOA property probably don't have any knowledge of the HOA being well-run.

It's impossible for an HOA to prevent crime in and of itself. That's a tall order to require, especially when there's a will there's always a way. However, it is the HOA's responsibility to maintain and replace the services promised in an association's governing documents that may contribute to crime reduction such as a gate, or that is promised in the association's governing documents. I could also see an HOA informing the residents of criminal activity and or encouraging owners to be aware of behavior, look out for your neighbors, etc.

I don't want to speak for Robert, but my take on it is there are several things a well run HOA can do to help reduce crime in a neighborhood.

1. The first thing is establishing a good relationships with your local police department, get them to make their presence known in your community.
2. Organize and advertise a neighborhood watch, there is nothing criminals hate more than people watching for them.
3. If your CC&R's allow, fine homeonwers who have guests or who themselves create nuisances or issues in your neighborhood. Some HOA's have a nuisance clause, if you have it use it.
4. If you have parking restrictions enforce them, cars parked on streets are more likely to be broken into than cars parked in driveways, and cars parked in garages are obviously not going to be broken into.
5. Communicate to your membership about safety, leaving porch lights on, etc. Sometimes a reminder is all you need.

These are just some simple things you can do that doesn't cost a lot of money, obviously you can buy cameras, high guards, etc. Criminals look for easy targets, a car parked in a garage with a lighted porch with a neighborhood watch sign is more than likely going to send them to another neighborhood without a neighborhood watch sign, with no porch light on and cars lining streets.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/17/2007 12:46 PM
To all,
It pleases me to know there are folks reading what you post and I appreciate that you would consider my opinion.

However. What I said was: I felt there would be less crime or police activity in A WELL RUN HOA compared to a non HOA.

Some of the stuff that has been reported here that happened within an HOA I am sure are factual. But there will be times when you can't avoid trouble. But, if the HOA or Condo is well run you will have the eyes and ear of all the community to help prevent, report, and work to overcome difficulties.

Robert, wouldn't it be fairer to compare two entities that are as close as possible to one another then? ie. Compare a 'well run' HOA with a 'well run' non-HOA community otherwise comparing a 'well run' HOA with a poorly run non-HOA isn't a fair comparison. (the latter run by local gov't I presume)

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
DJ1,
My opinion?
We are not discusssing anything to prove anything, or to change parameters to favor one side or the other. I am not running down non HOA communities and I am not defending poorly run HOA's. That's not the point. Of course, whether you live in one or the other it appears to me that more control can be exerted by an HOA or Condo. And, I am not advocating out of control boards anymore than out of control city councils. It's what you do with what you got that makes the difference. An association has got more to work with than a non-association neighborhood.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I thought BradP's post articulated very clearly some of the ways that a well-run HOA can reduce crime. I don't think Robert was out of line at all in his statement. There is more to crime reduction than simply adding more police.

JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
Brad, we have done all those things. Most of the trouble comes from, I hate to say it, renters. We also have a "camper section" that has recently had its deed restrictions changed from temporary to permanent living. A lot of the lots , most 50'x 50', were bought up by one guy and he wasn't too picky about who he sold to.
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
Forgot to mention, we are located in a rural area of central TX on a lake and we have had people come in by boat and break-in, or jump the fence (wire).
LindaE2 (Colorado)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I overheard a conversation between 2 people, last week. One woman was thinking about buying a condo, the other asking why, as if she was choosing euthanasia, or something as horrible. I regret not speaking up, and wished someone would have warned me off from my purchase. I thought a condo/HOA would REDUCE maintenance headaches. I have a whole list of exterior repairs, needed, requested many times, and ignored (we are talking holes in the roof). Their negligence is causing more damage, yet I would be fined, if hired repairs, out of pocket. Condo-life is not a peaceful, or carefree way to live. I would like to choose (and be able to fire) my own lawnmen, and contractors. I would save money and reduce stress, caring for my own home, MY way (the right way). To answer your question: our HOA is described as "very unhealthy". I describe our property manager with your words, above. When I upgrade, I will choose a home without a HOA; after this experience, I do not believe in them. However, I am not the type of person who gets angry over a boat in someone else's driveway. My question: Is there a place to post names of specific HOA's, or property managers, so future owners can be warned?
JaneK (California)
Posts: 175
Posted:
Good HOA experience? No.

Neither the board nor management know the law, ethics or even how to be polite. They are petty and vindictive. They blatantly disregard the law and homeowner concerns and opinions, they want to control your life. Our dues keep going up due to poor planning and our property values are going down. In this area, CA, I’ve noticed ā€œNo HOAā€ advertised on real estate listings. Therefore, no HOA must be a definite plus.

Crime can be kept down with a good Neighborhood Watch program. You don’t need an HOA to do that.

If you think your HOA is good, remember you are one election away from disaster.
Jane
SteveC4 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Hello IM located in Florida and I would never buy anything that is associated with HOA...think they should do away with it.
MaryN (Virginia)
Posts: 125
Posted:
For years our HOA was great..then new folks moved in..got elected to the BOD and acted like they had been given the keys to the kingdom. Our HOA is now split about equally..and we're now in the legal system .. spending lots of money to resolve our issues. Never, never again. It's a great idea, but can also get nasty and pit neighbor against neighbor.
MaryN
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Linda, what has your Board done about correcting the list of repairs? Are you on the Board? If not, consider running for the Board and become part of the solution.

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