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Subject: Financial Statement: on line posting
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StanH7
(Colorado)

Posts:8


10/04/2019 9:54 AM  
The discussion on whether HOA financials are public information seems to hit a grey area but: many HOAs without secure web sites post financials; property management companies release the information to Title companies and companies that provide Transfer Fee services; many HOAs post the financials in their newsletter with no restricted use clauses; Realtors can gain access via request; home buyers upon request. Most if darn near all property management company contracts with the HOA provide release of financials to requesting parties and such parties are rarely identified and no restrictions are state upon release. In fact this is not privacy act data or confidential, period. This information is not in most cases considered a public records as in deeds and HOA governing documents but is not considered privacy act data (no personal information or trade data or proprietary information). Thus if you are buying a home and want this information you can get it: get from the property management company, from the HOA web site, from the seller who can get it from the web site, from a Realtor, and many other ways thus this is hardly confidential and restricted information. The only lock on this is a property management company that profits from charging to provide
MarkW18
(Florida)

Posts:121


10/04/2019 10:04 AM  
AND your question is? Or are we playing Jeopardy?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/04/2019 10:29 AM  
And where are you getting all these ASSUMPTIONS? Sounds like someone doesn't know the rules of releasing financials. If you are NOT a HOA member you don't have access to them. So why in the world are these title companies, realtors, or other resources given access?

You may be confusing that there is a form HUD/PUD form that is filled out by HOA's in some closing transactions. Those are usually FHA or other government backed loans. Which is a 25 questionnaire basically about the health of a HOA. However, there is no financials revealed on that document. Just how many units, fee simple, how many rentals, any lawsuits, and collections etc... That is just given to the mortgage company and no one else.

A Realtor may ask for it on behalf of their client. They aren't responsible for gathering or providing. The potential buyer is still NOT a member. So the HOA can decide if they will allow it. Otherwise, it's a no go.

So posting online isn't usually done for PUBLIC. It is done just for membership with a special code for a website exclusive to them. We would never release this information outside of the HOA membership. We didn't even let general members see collection reports just expenditures. Plus never revealed names nor addresses. Just Lot#'s.

Not sure where your getting this assumptions from but don't think it's the reality of a HOA.

Former HOA President
StanH7
(Colorado)

Posts:8


10/04/2019 11:03 AM  
as a following up to previous posting, in fact HOAs post financials on unsecured web site, none of this is privacy information, in releasing to a member there is no restriction on what can be done with data nor does the home owner have to justify why they want the financials thus one second after the release is turns into unrestricted use, many HOAs post in their community documentation and if one thinks because it is in the community newsletter it doesn't go outside the community you are dreaming, however the proper access and no need to justify why, is from a home owner request, a Realtor or Title company has no more valid authorization to financials than the average citizen but home owner requests is of course the most seamless and proper manner to get all this information from the management company. note, the costly and abusive HOA home sale transfer fee should not be charged when a home owner provides this information to the buyer or Realtor or Title company
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:396


10/04/2019 11:50 AM  
Stan, the Resale Certificate charge (as it is called in Texas) is not abusive and is justified.

In the first place, in Texas, any member of an association may request to see, and make a copy of, any Association document with a few exceptions pertaining to owner account information, Attorney-Client privileged information if litigation is pending, and contracts which have not yet been executed or rejected.

The financial information is not all which has to be provided when a property is placed under contract. I know you posted from Colorado, I do not know what is required in Colorado. In Texas we have to provide:

Balance Sheet
Budget
Bylaws, Declaration, Amendments, other filed documents
Association Guidelines, Rules, and Policies
Resale Certificate
Certification of Insurance
Other pertinent documents

It is usual in the sale of a client property for us to spend 1 to 5 hours on the telephone with real estate agents, title company personnel, inspectors, and occasionally a seller or buyer or both. Some sales require the completion of forms for the mortgage company or others, some of the forms are particularly onerous and can require up to an hour to complete.

Our time is not free, we wish to be compensated for the time we spend supporting the sale of a property in a client association.




GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


10/04/2019 11:54 AM  
What's the point of all this? Of course prospective owners can get the financials. Of course current owners can get the information. Unless the HOA owns a secret recipe for soup or something, there are no state secrets hiding in anyone's financials. Everyone here sorta knows that already.

Once again: What's your point?
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


10/04/2019 11:56 AM  
Ah, OK, it's about transfer fees.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:117


10/04/2019 12:31 PM  
I think the point was to break the record for the longest run on sentence.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/04/2019 2:52 PM  
Each HOA is separate, different, and not connected. So not every HOA posts stuff as stated. You deal with one HOA one at a time. To group HOA's together is just a huge clusterluck. Too many assumptions and wanting to ASSUME things. Not sure if it is even a problem.

Former HOA President
StanH7
(Colorado)

Posts:8


10/04/2019 5:25 PM  
there is not one document on your list that is unusual or requires extra expense to produce, period, in Colorado we have additional documents all of which are maintained by the HOA with its' contract with the management company, there is no measurable expense to produce the documents and no requirement or need to have some lawyer certify that the documents are current and correct if the management company is doing its job, the home owner should be able to by-pass all this trumped up expense that has already been paid for with HOA dues by making a simple request to the HOA, property management companies have services package these documents for $50 so why does a property management company charge on average $350, a scam to be direct, why doesn't the transfer fee be accompanied by an invoice of what was done, when and by whom with line item cost, if there was an invoice it would flagrantly point out that the transfer fee can't be justified by work performed, why does the fee range from $50 to over $1000, it is because there is no relationship between work completed to sell the home and the fee but the management companies charge what they can get away with, the involvement of lawyers and lobbyist simply doesn't explain why any task in the transfer fee is justified, it is disgraceful, check out our web site and the articles on the transfer fee dirty dozen etc and get the facts www.coloradohoaforum.com
StanH7
(Colorado)

Posts:8


10/04/2019 5:28 PM  
yes, run on sentences for run on and unjustified fees, no eloquence is deserved when discussing rip off of the consumer, the day is coming soon when these fees will be ended for what they are, a scam and income enhancement scheme for property managers, read our literature on this and learn the facts vs hiding behind privilege www.coloradohoaforum.com
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


10/04/2019 5:56 PM  
check out our web site and the articles on the transfer fee dirty dozen etc and get the facts


In life, everyone charges different prices for everything. Everything is negotiable.

Management company is no different than a lawn mowing service. If you dont like them, fire them.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


10/04/2019 6:09 PM  
Your website discusses........ Underbidding HOA Contracts in Anticipation of Transfer Fee Income is Reckless
and Deceptive

HOA has the power to set terms of the contract, its called negotiation.

HOA would simply put the prices it wants the mgmt company to charge homeowners IN THE CONTRACT. $100 transfer fee, $100 resale certificate
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:396


10/04/2019 6:53 PM  
Fine Stan, you explain to me why I have to spend 1-5 hours on the telephone, and occasionally more hours completing forms, for lenders or whomever, and not expect to be compensated for doing so.

If I bail out, the sale does not close, If it is your property, how happy will you be. My time is worth $75.00 an hour, minimum. Go find an attorney who will support you at many multiples of that hourly rate.
StanH7
(Colorado)

Posts:8


10/05/2019 7:24 AM  
for all you weeping property managers that complain about the work to complete your so-called transfer fee "extra expenses", what we know is that 90+ of transfer fee-home sale work is routine, not extraordinary and not unique to the sale of a home, all paid for with HOA dues of the seller and continues to be paid for without break with the new home buyer, and if not why does the industry fight so hard to NOT provide a detailed receipt at closing showing what was done, when, and line item cost? If a PM can show extraordinary, unique work then they should be compensated but even when legislation was proposed that simply stated the requirements of a final billing (all obligations of the seller with the HOA and a statement that fees are unique and extraordinary and not previously paid for with HOA dues) they sent their paid folks to the legislature to kill the bill with a lot of lies and other influence. To the person who indicates their time is worth $75 an hour, bull, to fill out a form? This is the type of thing that upsets home owners. Then there are the ridiculous charges and unneeded charges at time concerning certifying documents also called padding the bill. I could go on but discussing this with folks in denial and profiteering is useless, the day is soon when home owners can use an alternative service to get all the documents and a final bill (aka Status Letter) to receive all this for no more than $50 and this discussion will end and extorting money from home owners at the day of closing will end. Have a good day and for those of you who charge $75 per hour to complete a computer form you are the reason we seek reform.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8730


10/05/2019 9:19 AM  
Stan

You are getting tiring. I suggest no one reply to him and he will go away.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


10/05/2019 11:46 AM  
the day is soon when home owners can use an alternative service to get all the documents and a final bill (aka Status Letter) to receive all this for no more than $50 and this discussion will end and extorting money from home owners at the day of closing will end.


Stan, the simple route would be to ask your mgmt company to charge no more than $50.

Have you done that?

PS. You dont need government to tell you what someone should charge, you simply dont buy their product. If this is important to you, you get quotes from a new mgmt company that will do this for $50, and get it in writing as part of the contract you have with them.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


10/05/2019 11:48 AM  
Its funny how some people think the mgmt company controls the HOA........
They simply forget its the HOA who controls the mgmt company and can replace them anytime.

If your mgmt company forgets this, give them a friendly reminder.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8730


10/05/2019 11:58 AM  
Posted By SteveM9 on 10/05/2019 11:48 AM
Its funny how some people think the mgmt company controls the HOA........
They simply forget its the HOA who controls the mgmt company and can replace them anytime.

If your mgmt company forgets this, give them a friendly reminder.




I agree. Once in awhile they need a shot fired over their bow.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/05/2019 12:39 PM  
The management company may charge the HOA for this expense. Which the HOA then may pass onto the new buyer. The HOA is a non-profit corporation in most cases. So would not be surprised if they want reimbursed for what they had to pay the MC.

This also may be a charge the MC charges. Again EACH HOA is different. They are NOT connected. So one HOA may charge a charge and another not. Some make up multiple types of charges. Since a HOA is ONLY funded by the members for the members it would make sense to pass along any expenses they can.

Former HOA President
StanH7
(Colorado)

Posts:8


10/05/2019 1:05 PM  
my last statement. it seems most are property managers and either don't have a clue about what a home sale transfer is or are part of the rip off completed via this fee. if you are a realtor i suggest you read about this fee and understand it and challenge the abusive and excessive cost. take a look at the coloradohoaforum web site and learn about this fee and then you will understand why the property management industry keeps this dirty little abusive fee under wraps by never providing a detailed receipt to the payee indicating what was done, when, line item cost and certifying no charges are covered by HOA dues. good day and the day is coming when this fee is $50 or less and that is mild extortion
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/05/2019 1:32 PM  
Stan we are NOT management companies nor Realtors here. We are HOA members or HOA Board members. Your rant is completely missing it's mark with us. There is no conspiracy here. Go to Area 51 please. Heard there are plenty there... And maybe it's a HOA of Aliens!

Former HOA President
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


10/05/2019 3:04 PM  
Transfer fees are an area where there's a lot of abuse taking place in Florida. The statutes set a maximum dollar amount and while it's probably too low, so many condos, HOAs, and management companies are trying to game the system that it's becoming a problem. Here's a blog post that refers to a Class Action suit in Miami where the homeowners prevailed and got refunds on the illegal transfer fees they were forced to pay. Most buyers just pay the fees because they're not savvy enough to question them. Property Management firms know this and have no problem violating the statutes to goose their cash flow.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8730


10/05/2019 4:12 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/05/2019 1:32 PM
Stan we are NOT management companies nor Realtors here. We are HOA members or HOA Board members. Your rant is completely missing it's mark with us. There is no conspiracy here. Go to Area 51 please. Heard there are plenty there... And maybe it's a HOA of Aliens!




I agree.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3758


10/05/2019 5:16 PM  
Posted By StanH7 on 10/04/2019 9:54 AM
The discussion on whether HOA financials are public information seems to hit a grey area but: many HOAs without secure web sites post financials; property management companies release the information to Title companies and companies that provide Transfer Fee services; many HOAs post the financials in their newsletter with no restricted use clauses; Realtors can gain access via request; home buyers upon request. Most if darn near all property management company contracts with the HOA provide release of financials to requesting parties and such parties are rarely identified and no restrictions are state upon release. In fact this is not privacy act data or confidential, period. This information is not in most cases considered a public records as in deeds and HOA governing documents but is not considered privacy act data (no personal information or trade data or proprietary information). Thus if you are buying a home and want this information you can get it: get from the property management company, from the HOA web site, from the seller who can get it from the web site, from a Realtor, and many other ways thus this is hardly confidential and restricted information. The only lock on this is a property management company that profits from charging to provide


Hi. I must admit that I was at first intrigued by your incredibly detailed description about the disclosure of financial statements. And then your post just stopped mid-sentence. I thought maybe you fell asleep at the keyboard or something because all of a sudden in the middle of a sentence your typing stopped just like that. I know that when i fall asleep at the keyboard i wind up doing things like sad;n lkeqwevoidsnv or sdpghnoq'G because i usually fall onto the keyboard. Apparently you have figured out how to fall asleeep at the keeyboard without doing things like sadpoefwj and rpnhjewon as i sometimes do. i;m wondering if yoyu lcan let me in on some of your secrets. Also, i would like to apoligize about the nasty people who post here here that hijackeed youjr threaad about financial statements. Here i was reading abouit financial statements and all of a suddon some jackassss turns it into a rant about transfere fees. What a dork dont your think. Please do not get discouraged about it. Fignt on. I do realize that Colorado stature requires that's right actually requires theaat a management company must must must disclose transfere fee costs that get charged to homeonwere associations. That should make it easy for you to seleect a management company that doesnt charge a fee that you like. my statae does not have sucha a law and i think it would be a total waste of my time to pursue such a law because there arere more imporatnt tthings in life to be concerned with you. So i sent a donatoion to your wevsite so that you can prevent jackasese from hijacking your threads. Best of luck anda pleasesfea lete me know how you did thata fallinga osleeep while typing trick without messing up uytou;asr typing. And dont forget to

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


10/05/2019 6:02 PM  
Stan, since you are a member of your HOA, why dont you offer to do all the resale certificates for your HOA for free. It would be alot of work, but you would save everyone so much money.
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