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Subject: Security Cameras
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Author Messages
SylviaS5
(Illinois)

Posts:4


10/02/2019 10:47 AM  
Are there any rules, regulations, or laws pertaining to security camera footage? A previous Board Member that was not currently running sent out a mass email to everyone in the building speaking lies and slandering a person that was running to be on the Board. She said she had a video to prove one of her statements and anyone that wanted to see it she would send it to them. She sent the video to about 5 people. It is my understanding the video was only given to one person that was involved in an altercation at the time. Where would we start looking to find out about laws. There is nothing stated in the Declarations regarding videos from the security cameras.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/02/2019 3:24 PM  
Well I would say this isn't a HOA issue entirely. It's involved no doubt but not necessarily it's responsibility. I would have the "victim" discuss the matter with the police or a lawyer. They may have a case of harassment in regards to criminal charges. It could be liable in civil court. Especially if it caused any kind of damages.

So HOA should stay out and discourage this type of behavior. As far as a friend/neighbor I would encourage the person to bring charges or atleast talk to the police to make this person aware of the criminal actions they are guilty of. The police can't drop charges so just a warning may do. They can also consult an attorney for a letter of intent to sue if they don't cease and desist.

Former HOA President
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3758


10/02/2019 6:41 PM  
The HOA could have 3rd party liability under recent amendments to the Fair Housing Act.

See article:

https://www.hoalawblog.com/hoa-liability-discriminatory-harassment-primer/

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/02/2019 7:53 PM  
Why drag the entire HOA (I.e neighbors) into this mess? It's the "victims" issue to deal with. The HOA can be witness or support them. Not wanting the HOA to spend a dime on this matter for someone's stupid behavior.

Former HOA President
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3758


10/03/2019 9:13 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/02/2019 7:53 PM
Why drag the entire HOA (I.e neighbors) into this mess? It's the "victims" issue to deal with. The HOA can be witness or support them. Not wanting the HOA to spend a dime on this matter for someone's stupid behavior.


There is a lot of chatter about the unfairness of making the HOA liable as a 3rd party for an FHA violation. Yet, that's the new law, and unless it gets changed, someone is bound to test it in court. Those with the deeper pockets are easily added to a lawsuit.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:459


10/04/2019 7:44 AM  
Posted By NpS on 10/03/2019 9:13 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/02/2019 7:53 PM
Why drag the entire HOA (I.e neighbors) into this mess? It's the "victims" issue to deal with. The HOA can be witness or support them. Not wanting the HOA to spend a dime on this matter for someone's stupid behavior.


There is a lot of chatter about the unfairness of making the HOA liable as a 3rd party for an FHA violation. Yet, that's the new law, and unless it gets changed, someone is bound to test it in court. Those with the deeper pockets are easily added to a lawsuit.




Count me as one of those who believes that new law needs to be challenged. In my opinion it's nothing more than a cynical ploy to tap into the deeper pockets of an HOA when the defendant in the complaint may have few assets. What will happen is that HOAs will run up their spending on legal assistance in order to "show willing" whenever there is a chance that Fair Housing laws may come into play. (In face we do that already in my community.)

There are real limitations to what an HOA can legally do to correct bad behavior by a homeowner who refuses to comply. In Ohio we can fine and then foreclose if they don't pay, but many states have laws forbidding such actions. And even vile homeowners have rights. The HOA could well end up being sued by that person as well, leading to even more legal expenses.

The list of reasons not to buy into an HOA or COA just keeps getting longer and longer...
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/04/2019 8:24 AM  
What exact "Deep pockets" does a HOA really have? Explain this to me? I could not raise our dues $5 to get the money we needed to run the place. So where is this money going to come from in a lawsuit? Insurance? Our insurance deductible was 20K!!! Are you and your neighbors going to need to raise money to pay the deductible alone?

No a HOA does NOT have "deep pockets". It you and your neighbor's pockets. How much you want out of yours to handle this mess?

Former HOA President
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3758


10/04/2019 8:56 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/04/2019 7:44 AM
There are real limitations to what an HOA can legally do to correct bad behavior by a homeowner who refuses to comply. In Ohio we can fine and then foreclose if they don't pay, but many states have laws forbidding such actions. And even vile homeowners have rights. The HOA could well end up being sued by that person as well, leading to even more legal expenses.


Cathy -

Please note that this new revision to Federal housing law is not exclusively about HOAs. It's about any 3rd party. HOAs are only one type of 3rd party. Landlords can get snagged. Management companies can get snagged. There's a long list of other 3rd parties that can get snagged.

The statute puts all kinds of entities between a rock and a hard place. I agree that it doesn't make sense, but as I said, the law is the law until it gets changed.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:459


10/04/2019 9:43 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/04/2019 8:24 AM
What exact "Deep pockets" does a HOA really have? Explain this to me? I could not raise our dues $5 to get the money we needed to run the place. So where is this money going to come from in a lawsuit? Insurance? Our insurance deductible was 20K!!! Are you and your neighbors going to need to raise money to pay the deductible alone?

No a HOA does NOT have "deep pockets". It you and your neighbor's pockets. How much you want out of yours to handle this mess?




Larger communities in cities can have budgets over a million dollars and multi-million dollar reserves. Someone here commented recently that his annual budget was in that range. It may not be the norm, but that doesn't mean your association is the norm either - although I think the average is closer to your end of the scale.

And yeah, that money is going to come out of the pockets of homeowners whose only crime was not choosing their neighbors wisely. That's why I and others are so annoyed by this law. It supports my belief that community associations are cash cows that benefit almost everyone except the people who own homes in them.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:459


10/04/2019 9:53 AM  
Posted By NpS on 10/04/2019 8:56 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/04/2019 7:44 AM
There are real limitations to what an HOA can legally do to correct bad behavior by a homeowner who refuses to comply. In Ohio we can fine and then foreclose if they don't pay, but many states have laws forbidding such actions. And even vile homeowners have rights. The HOA could well end up being sued by that person as well, leading to even more legal expenses.


Cathy -

Please note that this new revision to Federal housing law is not exclusively about HOAs. It's about any 3rd party. HOAs are only one type of 3rd party. Landlords can get snagged. Management companies can get snagged. There's a long list of other 3rd parties that can get snagged.

The statute puts all kinds of entities between a rock and a hard place. I agree that it doesn't make sense, but as I said, the law is the law until it gets changed.




But but but... Landlords can evict trouble makers. Management companies can fire employees. Most community associations can't do much of anything with an owner who just won't comply with the rules.

I'm going to share the link you posted with our board and PM.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/04/2019 10:21 AM  
Wow.. Where to start. No you can't "Choose" your neighbors/members in a HOA. If you can buy a house, you become a member whether or not you or your neighbors like it. No landlords can NOT just "evict troublemakers". There are laws that protect the tenants. If you don't have it in your lease agreement that a violation of a HOA is grounds for eviction, then you can't evict. MC's can fire their OWN employees not any of the HOA's. Considering HOA's are run by VOLUNTEERS.

If someone has millions of dollars in their RESERVES it can't be touched for other purposes than for replacement of capital expenses. It doesn't work like a savings account. the money is there for roof replacement, street maintenance, or other capital expense of the large variety. The money for lawsuits and such would come out of the regular budget.

So this board member potential person should NOT be protected by any HOA rules. They are violating real laws. This is harassment directed toward another person. I say have the victim call the police or a lawyer. Take the fight to the members doors not the HOA's streets.

Former HOA President
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