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Subject: Annual Membership Meeting Minutesn in FL
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JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:43


10/01/2019 2:53 PM  
At our 2019 membership meeting, the Secretary announced that there were no minutes from the previous years' meeting. After some questions from the audience as to why there were none, one of the board members stood up and apologized for the non-existent minutes but was quick to add that the lack of minutes was "not the fault of anyone on the board" and that they all work so hard and should be appreciated. I guess everyone in the audience was so taken aback by that response that no one said anything and the meeting continued.If it's not the fault of anyone on the board, who's fault is it? Would it not be the Secretary's? Anyone who questions is told to "not be so negative, we are all volunteers on the Board" I feel that does not exempt you from not doing your job. FYI, we are self managed. Your thoughts, please.

MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


10/01/2019 3:30 PM  
Meeting notes are a bit more complicated than one thinks. Yes, typically the Secretary is responsible for making the meeting notes. Ironic enough the President is NOT allow to take notes because they are NOT allowed to act as "Secretary". So the Vice-President/Treasurer or other officer position could.

It's up the board to approve those meeting minutes usually at the NEXT meeting. If any issues arise, then it may be another meeting to officially approve the meeting notes. Which IMO should not be released until official. Some people demand notes shortly after the meeting. They would not be official notes and should be stamped as such.

Meeting notes can be important to things like lawsuits and/or approval of some changes. A lawyer once told me that changes to the by-laws (NOT CC&R's) can be noted in the meeting notes. Not sure how true that is. However, they would be considered part of the official records of the HOA.

Yes, remember these people are VOLUNTEER. They are up to making mistakes. If you can do a better job, volunteer to do it.

Former HOA President
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:43


10/01/2019 3:47 PM  
I was Board president for over 6 years and our board never pulled stunts like this. This is just one of several incompetent things this board does. The president actually stated at a meeting that he "does'nt like rules" There are a few members gathering a group to possibly recall the board.
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:239


10/01/2019 4:31 PM  
Was anyone present at the meeting for which the minutes are missing? Was there any business at that meeting?

Those present could have put together minutes simply by looking at the prior meeting agenda.

Yes, yes, rules need to be followed but we’re not talking about treaty negotiations this is an annual meeting, which for most HOAs, most of the time, is a review of the budget, maybe an election, and a reminder to pick up dog poop.
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:43


10/01/2019 5:34 PM  
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 10/01/2019 4:31 PM
Was anyone present at the meeting for which the minutes are missing? Was there any business at that meeting?

Those present could have put together minutes simply by looking at the prior meeting agenda.

Yes, yes, rules need to be followed but we’re not talking about treaty negotiations this is an annual meeting, which for most HOAs, most of the time, is a review of the budget, maybe an election, and a reminder to pick up dog poop.




This was an annual membership meeting where the 2018 budget was to be approved and new officers elected.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3758


10/01/2019 6:09 PM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/01/2019 5:34 PM
This was an annual membership meeting where the 2018 budget was to be approved and new officers elected.


In the time it took to tell you that there were no minutes and no one was at fault, one of them could have grabbed a scrap of paper and written who go elected and whether the the budget got approved.

I get the impression that this group won't be able to get anything done. Might be time to rotate them out.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:239


10/01/2019 7:12 PM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/01/2019 5:34 PM
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 10/01/2019 4:31 PM
Was anyone present at the meeting for which the minutes are missing? Was there any business at that meeting?

Those present could have put together minutes simply by looking at the prior meeting agenda.

Yes, yes, rules need to be followed but we’re not talking about treaty negotiations this is an annual meeting, which for most HOAs, most of the time, is a review of the budget, maybe an election, and a reminder to pick up dog poop.




This was an annual membership meeting where the 2018 budget was to be approved and new officers elected.





Did that happen? Is there any reason someone can’t write the minutes now? I agree that your bird members seem to be lacking common sense but I also don’t understand why no one else at the meeting thought to just recollect what happened and write it down so you all could have minutes and move on.

GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


10/02/2019 1:31 PM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/01/2019 2:53 PM
At our 2019 membership meeting, the Secretary announced that there were no minutes from the previous years' meeting. After some questions from the audience as to why there were none, one of the board members stood up and apologized for the non-existent minutes but was quick to add that the lack of minutes was "not the fault of anyone on the board" and that they all work so hard and should be appreciated. I guess everyone in the audience was so taken aback by that response that no one said anything and the meeting continued.If it's not the fault of anyone on the board, who's fault is it? Would it not be the Secretary's? Anyone who questions is told to "not be so negative, we are all volunteers on the Board" I feel that does not exempt you from not doing your job. FYI, we are self managed. Your thoughts, please.


I agree with everything you said. It's SOMEONE'S fault. Another example where those who don't want to play the "blame game" are usually the ones to blame.

Also I'd like to point out that at a meeting of the membership there is no "audience". It's not a board meeting. The officers may give their annual reports to the membership (or in the Secretary's case, the minutes of the last meeting) but it's YOUR meeting, the members, and the members all get to fully participate. At the very least a full explanation of why there were no minutes from the previous meeting should have been given, not matter who may have been embarrassed by the actual details. Then it should have been discussed how to ensure such a thing never happens again.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8730


10/02/2019 1:36 PM  
Our MC runs our annual meeting and takes the minutes. Minutes usually less than one page.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


10/02/2019 2:11 PM  
You also might consider language that gives the Board the authority to waive late fees. Waiving them may be desirable in certain circumstances. As an inducement for paying delinquent assessments or fines, for example. Or perhaps after severe weather, storms, or flooding result in people paying late. Or maybe in a month where there's a State of Emergency in effect. Example: at the end of August we were under the gun from the possible approach of Hurricane Dorian. The Governor declared a State of Emergency on Aug. 29. If that hurricane had significantly affected us we were contemplating waiving late fees for September. It didn't and we didn't, but we would have. Not everyone has electronic payments out of their bank accounts set up. And it would have been for September only. Any pre-existing late fees due on an account would have been carried over. It wouldn't have been a blanket amnesty.
EdC5
(Florida)

Posts:95


10/03/2019 7:19 AM  
I try to stay out of these discussions, but I can't avoid this one. As a Florida CAM I manage associations, and the one thing I do not like to see are the so-called "self-managed" associations. The reason is they typically don't follow what is required of them by statutes and the governing docs. Now the OP stated that the board said that "there is no one to blame" (paraphrased). That is wrong on many levels; there IS someone to blame: the board, starting with the current and past secretaries. Florida statute requires that minutes and pretty much all documentation be kept and available to the members for 7 years (though there are a handful of exceptions that have a lower year limit). Statute does NOT make an exception for volunteer "self-managed" associations. If I were a member there, I'd start by telling the board that I want to review the records for the past 2 years (minimum), including bank statements, vendor contracts, monthly income & expense statements, and monthly balance sheets (showing actual vs. budget, if possible)(.

Edward J Cooke, CMCA, LCAM
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


10/03/2019 3:03 PM  
My apologies for my post above at 10/02/2019 5:11 PM

That reply was for another thread re. late fees and I have no idea how it ended up here in a completely different thread. The forum software on this site sucks, to be blunt.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


10/03/2019 3:06 PM  
Posted By EdC5 on 10/03/2019 7:19 AM
I try to stay out of these discussions, but I can't avoid this one. As a Florida CAM I manage associations, and the one thing I do not like to see are the so-called "self-managed" associations. The reason is they typically don't follow what is required of them by statutes and the governing docs.

We're self-managed and hired a MC at the beginning of this year. The CAM we were assigned was a bottom-of-the-barrel kinda guy who had no idea what was required of us either. The MC and the CAM are gone now. No doubt a MC can help an association (we still need one, just not THAT one). But they're no cure-all if nobody, PM and CAM included, know what they're doing.
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