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Subject: Question about HOA right to get invovled in plumbing dispute
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QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


09/23/2019 7:14 PM  
I live in a condo managed by an HOA, I am a renter, and I recently had a problem with an HOA employee entering my condo.

He then tried to find out who was at fault for a plumbing problem. The upstairs neighbors denied that they caused a clog in the pipe between the kitchens in both units. Then he reported this denial back to my RE manager, who then immediately threatened us with making us pay. This was all before anybody even talked to the actual plumber.

The plumber had a very different idea about who was at fault. I referred my RE manager to him, and have heard nothing further about it, but I’m very angry.

There is nothing in the CC&R’s about the HOA’s right to enter, but the on-site manager / maintenance man thinks nothing of doing it. My RE manager should have waited, and talked to the plumber before getting that antagonistic about it. I am most angry about the on-site manager’s contribution to the whole thing.

My husband was the one who let him into our condo, and he is a stroke survivor with a bad memory, so now he does not remember what the excuse supposedly was for coming in. We had already requested the repair 2 days before, and were still trying to get a plumber out . It seems to me like my RE manager was using the on-site manager as her personal condo inspector, and I have a problem with that. The HOA was not paying for the repair, so what were they doing coming in, taking a look, and getting involved?

Where would I go to complain about the HOA’s actions?

Thank you for your thoughts!
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


09/23/2019 7:30 PM  
I am confused about the situation. If you are a renter, then it's your landlord responsibility to be involved. Which sounds like they are having the RE Manager handle on their behalf. The HOA typically doesn't have employees. It sounds like they are an employee of either the RE Management or the HOA's management company.

My assumption is that this is an employee of the HOA's management. Whom was requested to investigate the clog in the walls. Not sure who hired the plumber. Yes, they should have consulted a plumber but relied on the HOA's MC's employee. The interaction should have been then between the plumber and your RE Manager and/or landlord. They in turn would be in contact with the HOA.

Sorry to say but you are a renter. Which means you don't have much right to deny someone from coming in. It's up to your landlord to decide on that matter. Next time should be a call to them or the RE Management in charge.

Former HOA President
QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


09/23/2019 8:03 PM  
Let me clear this up. Yes, I meant the HOA's management company. I am NOT complaining about my RE manager's involvement. Nowhere did I say that. I am not happy with how she handled it either, but I'm posting here because of how the on-site manager handled it.

The RE manager does not manage on behalf of the HOA management company. The RE manager rents out individual units, and pays the association fees. The HOA management company supposedly takes care of the exterior of the buildings and the grounds. The on-site manager does not work for my RE manager, he works for the HOA management. He seems to say "I'm just the maintenance guy" when it suits him, and he says "I'm the on-site manager," when it suits him.

I was not sure who actually hired the plumber either, until I asked the on-site manager. It was my RE manager.

I DID contact my RE manager first, and she was the one who brought in the on-site manager, who is an employee of the HOA's management company. Yes, I know that being a renter makes me second-class, but I have rights too. I have a right to not be harassed and threatened before anyone even bothers to talk to the plumber. The on-site manager had no business repeating my upstairs neighbor's lies back to my RE manager. THAT is what I'm angry about.

Is there any help for this?

Thanks everybody.....
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3234


09/23/2019 8:22 PM  
I would say your beef is with the landlord. He should be the go-between between you and the condo association and its employees/contractors/managers/vendors. If your landlord's agent/employee/manager isn't explaining things to your liking then your beef is still with your landlord. The condo association may be responsible for the pipe, depending on whether it's common property or limited common property. You'd have to check the condo's dedlaration or CC&Rs to determine that. And that is also really your landlord's problem, not yours. In that case it's perfectly reasonable for the condo association to make the call on which plumber to call. I don't know about Nevada, but in Florida a condo association maintains the right to enter a unit for several different reasons; it doesn't necessarily have to be an emergency.
MarkW18
(Florida)

Posts:121


09/23/2019 8:34 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 09/23/2019 8:22 PM
I would say your beef is with the landlord. He should be the go-between between you and the condo association and its employees/contractors/managers/vendors. If your landlord's agent/employee/manager isn't explaining things to your liking then your beef is still with your landlord. The condo association may be responsible for the pipe, depending on whether it's common property or limited common property. You'd have to check the condo's dedlaration or CC&Rs to determine that. And that is also really your landlord's problem, not yours. In that case it's perfectly reasonable for the condo association to make the call on which plumber to call. I don't know about Nevada, but in Florida a condo association maintains the right to enter a unit for several different reasons; it doesn't necessarily have to be an emergency.



The agent in charge of the unit should be the party involved, NOT the renter. The renter doesn't need to read the CCR's, just the Rules and Regulations. If the agent can't solve the issue, kick it upstairs to the owner.
QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


09/23/2019 10:52 PM  
I would say your beef is with the landlord. He should be the go-between between you and the condo association and its employees/contractors/managers/vendors. If your landlord's agent/employee/manager isn't explaining things to your liking then your beef is still with your landlord. The condo association may be responsible for the pipe, depending on whether it's common property or limited common property. You'd have to check the condo's dedlaration or CC&Rs to determine that. And that is also really your landlord's problem, not yours. In that case it's perfectly reasonable for the condo association to make the call on which plumber to call. I don't know about Nevada, but in Florida a condo association maintains the right to enter a unit for several different reasons; it doesn't necessarily have to be an emergency.

It's not that the agent isn't explaining things to my liking, it's that the agent used the incorrect information she got to jump on us for something that
was not our fault. The on-site manager exacerbated the situation by repeating our neighbor's lies back to the agent. The problem with the idea of "the agent"
being the first contact, is that she is in an office at a distance, and does not come here. The on-site manager is here on property daily.

The CC&R's do nothing to clarify who is responsible for what pipe. There is also nothing specified about right to enter, emergency or not.



QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


09/23/2019 11:04 PM  
MarkW18:

The agent did solve the plumbing issue, after much effort on my part. She is a big part of my problem with my on-site manager.

The on-site manager involved himself, inspected the plumbing situation for her, then talked to the pipe-clogging deniers
over us, then repeated their lies back to her, and she then harassed us in a very antagonistic manner without waiting
to talk to the plumber first.

So....my reason for coming here is I want to know if there is any help for the on-site manager's exacerbation of the
situation. In other words, I could really have done without his actions in the matter, and things would have resolved
just fine. The plumber came and fixed it, and that would have been communicated back to her.

Since there is nothing in the CC&R's about who fixes what pipe, or about the HOA management company's right to enter,
should I just go talk to the Nevada real estate division?

Thank you very much everyone.

MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


09/24/2019 4:09 AM  
AGAIN you are a RENTER. You are NOT a HOA member. Your beef is to be taken to the landlord. Since the landlord uses a RE Management company, then that is who is to handle it. Why escalate it to some other resource? Your not a HOA member.

Former HOA President
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:162


09/24/2019 4:44 AM  
My understanding of what I read is that a shared pipe was clogged. This is a drain pipe that services both your unit and the unit above you. If this is the case the pipe belongs to the HOA and they should be involved. As far as the HOA entering the unit you said your husband let them in so he gave them permission to enter the unit. In my HOA we would have fixed the shared pipe and billed the party that caused it or the HOA would have paid for it if it happened from just normal activities. Not sure what pipe was clogged by 2 days seems to long to fix especially if it was affecting the upstairs neighbor. Who reported the clog to the HOA? I think the HOA was acting within their responsibility.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


09/24/2019 7:20 AM  
Since there is nothing in the CC&R's about who fixes what pipe, or about the HOA management company's right to enter,
should I just go talk to the Nevada real estate division?



Since a person that lived there let them in, the only report you could file would be a "hurt feelings report"

At the end of the day, the clog needed to be fixed. Doesn't matter how you feel.
QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


09/24/2019 7:21 AM  
MelissaP1:

I know very WELL that I am a RENTER. I fear that you are thinking more about heirarchy than about their inappropriate behavior.
I'm probably not going to get any help here, so I'm going to the Nevada real estate division.

TO that guy who told me that I only need to know the rules, not the CC&R's: I made it my business to
read the cc&r's thank you! And it has helped me in the past. RENTERS are not just peons.



SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


09/24/2019 7:25 AM  
I fear that you are thinking more about heirarchy than about their inappropriate behavior.
I'm probably not going to get any help here, so I'm going to the Nevada real estate division.


Nevada real estate division does not regulate how nice people should be.
QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


09/24/2019 7:26 AM  
SteveM9:

Where did I say that I did not want to get the clog fixed? NOwhere.

I'm sorry that you think it's just fine for for the HOA management
company to repeat my neighbor's lies back to my RE manager, and for
that manager to then harass us instead of waiting to talk to
the plumber to find out what actually happened first.

You know what , never mind. I'll find someone in government
to answer my questions.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


09/24/2019 7:40 AM  

I'm sorry that you think it's just fine for for the HOA management
company to repeat my neighbor's lies back to my RE manager, and for
that manager to then harass us instead of waiting to talk to
the plumber to find out what actually happened first.


Again, there is no government department that handles people being mean and lying to others.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:117


09/24/2019 7:45 AM  
If you think dealing with the HOA is bad good luck with the government.
TimM11


Posts:302


09/24/2019 7:48 AM  
You'd probably need to contact your state Attorney General's office for your concerns about how it was handled from a tenant POV. As others have mentioned, the relationship is technically between your landlord and the HOA, not you and the HOA, but in practice things can get a little murky when tenants are involved.
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:162


09/24/2019 7:49 AM  
Let us know how you make out with the government. I would like to know if we should change our process. It sounds like the HOA could have been more tactful but didn't do anything wrong to me.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8601


09/24/2019 2:49 PM  
It is a hierarchy thing. You are a renter and NOT a HOA member. Your landlord is the member of the HOA. It is the owner's responsibility which they have passed onto the RE manager.

I agree don't see anything wrong here other than you don't like who the HOA sent over. The plumbing was fixed. Whom paid for it is irrelevant to you. It's relevant to your landlord and/or the HOA.

Don't like being a Renter in a HOA, that's the breaks kid... It is what it is. Your NOT a member. Simple as that.

Former HOA President
QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


10/01/2019 11:16 AM  
Turns out that the "onsite manager" is just the maintenance man.
He's been presenting himself as "also the onsite manager" for years.

He calls the owner / re manager directly when there's a problem.
Completely bypasses the actual manager. Like when a tenant across
the street had a 100 cats in his one bedroom condo. He called himself.

I believe my RE manager called him and not the actual HOA manager
because she wanted him to go inspect our unit for her. And what
she got was mislead about the HOA not paying for the repair.
And then wanted us to pay for it. That makes it my business all
right.

The HOA has paid for it in the past. He told me, after I asked
who actually hired the plumbing company, that my RE manager had
done it. That tells me that she went to him, and that is why he
knows about it.

He got involved, heard the neighbor's denial, repeated that back
to the RE manager, and then later told me it has nothing to do
with him, and that the HOA won't pay. He even told me how he
thought the 2 RE management companies should handle the payment.
He's just the maintenance man. He is responsible for maintaining
the grounds.

I asked the actual community manager about what this actual job is,
but have not told her anything else yet.

I'll be a good peon and only go through my RE manager, when the
HOA manager tells me I have to. She has not. She wants me to tell her if
there's any problem with the maintenance man. I have reservations about
it, but am thinking about it.



QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


10/01/2019 11:18 AM  
MelissaP1: I can't take your advice seriously; you have not even understood the problem.
The HOA did NOT send a plumber. If they had, there would have been no problem.

OY.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:789


10/01/2019 12:19 PM  
QimualaN1 you don't have a horse in this race,"you're not a owner/member of the HOA", and trust me on this, in the governing documents the HOA has emergency rights to enter any unit when it comes to plumbing issues. The onsite manager should have communicated only with your RE and your RE communicates with you
QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


10/01/2019 1:53 PM  
Actually, the bylaws state that they shall abide by NRS chapter 116,

AND NRS 116.310312 states that the HOA shall enter only when a unit
is unoccupied, AND there is some kind of emergency going on , like a flood.

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-116.html#NRS116Sec310312

None of this says that the maintenance may enter an occupied unit.

So SHOW ME where it in the NRS it says that an HOA may
enter an occupied unit.

Is it customary to send in the guy who picks up trash?
I don't think so.



JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8730


10/01/2019 2:50 PM  
Quim

Stop pour over state sights. The answer will be in your association docs, not the state docs
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3362


10/01/2019 5:46 PM  

So SHOW ME where it in the NRS it says that an HOA may enter an occupied unit.


The NRS doesn't need to document letting someone in your house voluntarily. Which is what happened.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3758


10/01/2019 6:22 PM  
If they stopped asking you to cover the cost, would you be willing to let this thing go?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
QimualaN1
(Nevada)

Posts:10


10/01/2019 6:45 PM  
And the association docs refer to NRS chapter 116,
which states that the HOA may enter when a unit is
unoccupied, AND when there is an emergency such as
flooding. I already mentioned it.

Come to think of it, there was another flooding incident
not long before, (the people upstairs have been causing
a lot of leaks), and the maintenance man told me then
that it had nothing to do with him. Not like I asked,
but he was quick to say it.

So the one differentiating factor here is that my
RE manager asked him to do it.

NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3758


10/01/2019 8:50 PM  
If they stopped asking you to cover the cost, would you be willing to let this thing go?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
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