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Subject: Surprise! Supporting possible lawsuit!
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Author Messages
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


09/12/2007 10:38 PM  
Here's a surprise for all you posters out there. I have an issue involving a possible lawsuit against my former HOA!!! Go figure! Apparently the new president has been using multiple "Scare tactics" against a few members. I am NOT surprised because I was well aware of this situation would be occurring. I actually expected it MUCH MUCH sooner!

Apparently, the new president has been sending out violation letters to homeowners to "clean up/repair their property or the HOA will send a contractor out to do the work for them and lien them". The new President is also harrassing a resident who has 2 teenage boys and lives near the clubhouse. They sometimes park their cars near the clubhouse which is considered "open parking". (Except for the handicap spot). She threatened to have their cars towed if they kept parking there because the BOD voted that area was for "clubhouse only". She also told the member that it was in the by-laws this way. UNTRUE. The streets are PUBLIC (That's in the by-laws) and only the city can enforce the towing. The county/city has an abandon vehicle law about 12 hours or more before they will consider a vehicle abandoned.

I know exactly what is going on and the backstory. It was exactly why I quit a few years ago. There was an existing group of people organized by a con-man who's been using the HOA's funds for years as his own. When I was president I removed his access and control.

Here's my issue about this. How do I advise a group of members to sue their HOA? I believe their reasons ARE VALID! Mind you, I never said that one shouldn't sue their HOA, just be aware of the risk your taking when you do make that choice to do so. I have advised these members who are interested in suing that they suing themselves and they understand that 100%. (I've also attempted to sue this HOA years ago myself). I also told them if they do decide to "sue" or write have a lawyer draft a letter of intent to sue, that they should do it as a group and NOT as an individual. There's power in numbers and less costs for the individual owners.

So far, one member is spear-heading this issue. I've given her a lawyer reference and told her to get a group of angry members together to discuss splitting the costs. I also told her that the legal fees may be tax-deductible if used on "investment property". So far, they are just wanting to hire a lawyer to draft a letter of concern and to "back off or else". I also informed her that there has to be "damages" for a better lawsuit and she could send the HOA the tow bill if the cars were towed.

There's alot more to this story as you can imagine. I've already been dragged back into this HOA's business over the years. I moved out years ago but live next door. So I am still close to many of the members. Yes, there are actual former Presidents who still care about their members and neighbors. We may be a rare breed but we do exist. I am willing to back these people up with whatever I can do. I am just curious about how other people were successful in winning one over in their HOA? These members deserve to "win" and want to give them every fighting chance.

By the way, I think I discovered that the current president may not even be a homeowner! She's living with the con-man Ex-president who is behind all of this. She moved in a few years ago to another house and then moved in with him. No word if she owned that house or was renting. This should add a nice "twist" to the situation don't you think? Thanks.

Former HOA President
RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:32


09/13/2007 2:55 AM  
MelissaP1 - Why not use this group of owners that you're organizing, call a special meeting and vote out the president. Seems to me if you have the community support, this action would be a better way than suing. RichardD
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


09/13/2007 4:32 AM  
Suing your HOA is suing yourself. Suing your HOA is suing yourself. Suing your HOA is suing yourself!

Having read the BB for sometime, that is the one consistent theme in most of your posts. Many of us have pointed out that while that is true, if you win you get 100% of the win while possibly only having to pay your prorated portion of any assessment the HOA may levy to pay for losing.

You recently revealed some rather personal details as to your past involvement. As an outside observer I'd say step back from the whole HOA thing, especially if you are now out of the HOA. It will be healthier for you.

I've said how we took up an activist position in 'our' HOA when we learned the developer apparently screwed up by not registering the CCR's on 34 of the ~114 homes here, including ours, thus giving us a way not to be part of what we have already seen to be, a bunch of people on a BOD that think they know what is right for everyone else! We can now watch from the outside as they fight amongst the remaining members but getting involved again?....not on your life. We closed our last letter to the community...'don't complain later if you don't respond now'!

Your new mantra could be, "If you get out of a bad HOA don't jump right back in. If you get out of a bad HOA don't jump right in. If you get out of a bad HOA don't jump right in".

Now repeat that after me Melissa!
Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495


09/13/2007 5:22 AM  
Melissa,

From Joe Friday.... "just the facts, Ma'am".. who cares about who is boyfriend/girlfriend, spouse of, late with dues etc.... If something is being done wrong that should be the focus of the actions - when we start delving into that "other" stuff (IMHO) that is evidence of a weak overall position. If the President is sending out letters (and you stated plural), isn't that what a board is supposed to do? If the letters are sent to everyone in violation - I see nothing "wrong" with that. Now if there is proof of abuse of power by the board - THAT would be the position I would take and use to my advantage. However if my yard/home is in disrepair, maybe I might want to heed the board's advise and clean/repair it.

On the issue of the parking and possible towing... you mentioned "teenagers, sometimes..." those are two very subjective elements there. Teenagers are not known to be the most responsible citizens. If they are parking in violation, they deserve to be towed. If the President is threatening to tow, while they are on public roads, you have to "prove" that they were parked legitimately (i.e. the tow truck driver takes a picture of the infraction prior to towing - that is a requirement that I have maded at my community). If it is an improper tow, then the President and the Towing company are liable for damages (civil); and possibly "GTA" (grand theft auto) criminal charges. On the comment about "sometimes" if they park illegally sometimes, then sometimes they are in danger of being towed. If they want to roll that dice, so be it....

If there is a organized group of residents angered by the actions of the President - why sue? Why not use that majority of residents and recall the President and install another person.

Mailing out ballots, support for the election (election monitors, ballots, etc) would be MUCH cheaper than retainer/billable hour fees from an attorney.

Remove the personalities from the issue and be objective. If the purpose is to "teach the President a lesson...(i.e. don't mess with us residents)" is that really a lesson that will be retained, and if so, at what costs?

If the goal it compliance to the rules and regulations - then work with the President towards a solution.
PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


09/13/2007 5:54 AM  
MelissaP1:

And here we have more sordid details of life in your ex-HOA community, and you ask..."How do I advise a group of members to sue their HOA? I believe their reasons ARE VALID!..." It's very interesting that the President is sending violation letters to residents (actually performing his enforcement responsibility) to "clean up/repair their property or the HOA will send a contractor out to do the work for them and lien them". I wonder where this President may have got the idea to resort to this tactic? ... Hmmm?

Since the most important fact right now is...You Are Not a Member of This HOA, not even a resident. I suggest--Stay out of it! There are plenty of other world problems where your energy, enthusiasm and persistence would be welcome and put to good use. Use your time wisely to find some other cause to fight, not this one.

Pull back and let these HOA residents work through their problems with their Board to find solutions. And, as you are a strong proponent of a 'Board recall' there's always that option.

There is one more thing--you could advise them to seek counsel from a very good website out there for HOA problems/situations....
JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728


09/13/2007 7:14 AM  
MelissaP1 - Who's surprised, certainly not me. You have posted volumes about details, drama, and exploits many of which I believe are basically he said, she said, he did, she did and inappropriate at best. You don't reside in the HOA anymore, clearly have an ax to grind. Regarding the new president sending out violation letters to homeowners to "clean up/repair their property or the HOA will send a contractor out to do the work for them and lien them". You find a problem with this because.....?

There should be no surprise I have relatively no respect for your HOA involvement, before or after you moved out of the HOA. You may want to seriously reconsider advising anyone in your former HOA. My interpretation would be that your actions border upon if not are altogether stalking and interference in a very dysfunctional environment. Don't fuel the fire.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


09/13/2007 1:24 PM  
Here's the deal. When I was President of the HOA, I found out the President before me was NOT following the Rules. I basically came in and got the HOA back in order. My adherence to the CC&R's and By-laws is legendary. No one before or after me has done the same. So now that I am gone from the HOA, the HOA has gone back to violating it's own rules again. However, I established enough education amongst a few good owners that they now recognize and are enabled to "Fight back" when the HOA goes too far. This is one of those situations where the seeds of ownership empowerment has come through. I told the owners that I would be available to them to support them and guide them if ever needed. It turns out they need some assistance to get them in the right direction.

You also have to understand that many of these issues these homeowner's are facing came from my "administration". I did make alot of changes that does effect the homeowners today in that HOA. Matter of fact, I was recently contacted by the Board to appear in court representing the HOA in a court case. It was in reference to the time period I was in office. So periodically, I am contacted by the current members, board, and even vendors! The HOA never officially left my front door.

The one claim in this case is in reference to a parking issue. The current president has threatened to tow a member's vehicle away for parking on the side of the street near the clubhouse. The President has apparently put up "Parking for clubhouse ONLY" signs in front. She then adviced the member that it was in the By-laws and agreed upon by the BOD to do this.

Here's the issue, when I was President, the CC&R's and By-laws were updated. It took 2/3rd's vote of the MEMBERS to change them. One of the new rule changes is that the streets are NO longer PRIVATE but PUBLIC streets. The size of the streets are too small we later had to go to the city and request that one side of the street be No parking and the curbs painted red to reflect this. We had to create an ordinance for the city to do this. This limited parking so there are a few spaces in front of the clubhouse available for visitor parking and one handicap space. Our HOA bans the use of "signs" other than For sale/Rent. Hence, why I had to go to the Code enforcement office of the CITY to allow for the red curbs to be done instead of No parking signs every 20 feet as per the city requirement.

The new president does NOT have the right to tow any vehicle. The city laws say a vehicle has to be abandoned before it can be towed by the city. The car has to be parked more than 12 hours in one spot to be considered abandoned. The President also has put up those 2 signs declaring the area exclusive to the clubhouse which is a violation of the no signs rules. The president can't make up parking rules anymore and enforce them no matter if they are in the by-laws. The streets aren't under HOA control.

This is just one example of what the members of this HOA are facing. Issues that I saw coming years ago. I tried my best to protect them and empower them when these issue would come up. That's why I feel that I should be supportive to the members when they call me. I am NOT calling them. It's turned out that 100% of the time, I am being dragged in to the HOA drama that I left behind. Unfornately, it's NOT my choice. The last time it involved a subpeona in court to appear. However, I am not going turn my back on anyone that needs my help either.

Former HOA President
Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495


09/13/2007 1:57 PM  
Melissa,

You and I have posted up in HOAtalk many times, sometimes we agree sometimes we do not. I am stating this as a former law enforcement officer (federal), you can NOT save someone that does not want to be saved, nor who will NOT stand up for themselves - you are ONLY being an "enabler." I have a stab wound "zipper" (wife refused to leave hubby beating on her, took knife to me during incident called in by neighbor on post), that reminds me of this daily. You are no longer part of this community's FIGHT - not saying that you do not have friends there, or that you should not have friends there, just that you are no longer a property owner. You as such no longer have an "investment" in how the community is managed - either as former owner, former HOA President, etc.

It is now the responsibility of the current owners to demand that their elected officials honor the governing documents, and conduct themselves in a professional manner. It is NOW their fight, and "determination" of what and how they chose to live.

... sometimes you gotta crawl before you can walk...
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


09/13/2007 2:07 PM  
Well, aren't you just the sweetest, long-suffering Mommy-bird? They will never learn to fly if you don't push them out of the nest!!

" The new president does NOT have the right to tow any vehicle. "

Then when she does, and is smaked with a personal lawsuit from the owner, then she'll know better, won't she? Sometimes you just have to give you "kids" permission to fail . . .

I fail to see how this is any concern of yours, regardless of your "stellar" performance as a past-president.

You need to BACK AWAY, for lots of reasons, but I particularly like a previous poster's statement that your actions are bordering on stalking and you clearly have an ax to grind.

Aside from this particular issue that you "saw coming years ago," the more I read your posts, the more you "clarify" things, the more I am tempted to do some armchair psychoanalysis.

You have absolutely NO self-perception filter.

Your adherence to ... is legendary...no one before or after...has done the same ... I established enough education ...they now recognize and are empowered to "fight back" . . . seeds of ownership empowerment as come through.

Yet somehow, you still feel you need to support them and guide them?!

I'm curious to know exactly HOW many owners are "empowered"? How many of the former HOA are in your pocket?

And your dragging in the personal or intimate relationship of the current president and the ex-president is hypocrisy at its finest.

It would seem that if there had been an issue regarding her eligibility it would have come up during the elections, no?

Only NOW that she's exercising her position, and for what it sounds like, appropriately, for all you know, her reputation AND eligibility are being assailed.






GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5201


09/13/2007 3:11 PM  
Melissa I went back through 8 days of your postings and copied down some of your advice to other people; perhaps it will be of some help to you in your current dilemma:

Posted by MelissaP1

The HOA should send the owner a letter of notification of the violation and request a meeting. This letter should also include the options the member has. 1. The owner could repaint the house after going through the proper approval process. (This is the peaceful resolution). 2. (Instead of fining) The HOA could hire a painting contractor of their choice and rate, to paint the house the right color and send the owner the bill. If the owner doesn't pay this bill, that then can be used for the basis of a lien.

Basically, a HOA needs to use it's "teeth". Fines are not typically the "Teeth" of a HOA. It is liens/foreclosures that are. If someone is in violation of the rules that cost money to fix it, then it has to be turned into a "lienable" situation instead.

I don't think advising people to "Get a lawyer" EACH time they have an issue with their HOA is the best advice. You can't assume that the HOA BOD is Wrong. The BOD may be right and the person asking for advice could be in the wrong.

You know WHY the BOD gets their way??? It's because of OWNER APATHY!!! It's because the people who are ON their BOD are the Owner's who understand the importance of their home values and want to be involved in making sure they stay at or above value. The people on your HOA BOD are VOLUNTEERS who want to be there so they do have a say in their community. If the BOD is acting wrong, it's because of the majority of Apathetic homeowners who don't keep them in line. The one's that do complain, usually are the one's not getting their way. Wouldn't it be a Perfect world if we all got what we wanted?

When dealing with your BOD, treat them like you want them to treat you. You come to a meeting with a negative attitude calling everyone incompetent expect the same treatment of you from them. I would expect someone who doesn't like their board not knowing their board. If you had a good friend and neighbor on that board would appreciate someone calling them names and incompetent? I think not.

BOD members are human too. We live where we work. And like any "dog", we don't crap where we live and we don't pick up yours either.

So I guess there will never be competent BOD members or HOA's? What a shame. Because, I thought that everyone should try to get along and work for the betterment of their community. However, if everyone the members elect are so incompetent and stupid, I guess that may be a reflection of what you have to choose from in your community.

As for me, I choose to "Love thy neighbor" like the good book says, and let God doing the judging. I admit that I am not perfect and will let anyone know that in a heartbeat. I don't assume anything as anything can go. My advice has to have a direction so that later more relevant facts will come out. No one here knows the whole story about anyone or anything. We can only go from what we are told and what experience we may have had in that general area. Assumptions are what anyone makes of them.

There are other ways with dealing with your HOA than hiring an attorney and going to court. It may be as simple as having an attorney write a letter or gathering a majority vote of other homeowner's that disagree with a rule as well. The rules and regulations of a HOA are created by and for the homeowners. If a majority of homeowner's don't like the rules or the board, then they have the right to change or vote out the BOD. Every homeowner in "Good standing" has the right to vote. That vote is very important even if it is just one vote and not even a board vote.


"Common sense is like deodorant--the people who need it most never use it."
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


09/13/2007 3:51 PM  
Look, I moved out of my HOA years ago because of what I knew the current president and BOD would do. I did NOT want any part of it and don't even talk to them. Heck, I see these people out in public and I run the other way hoping they don't see me!!! I intentionally avoid places that I know the Current President or BOD members that I know may be. I can't even hang-out with my friends at a Hockey game because the President and the ex go there. If anything, I do my best to avoid contact with these people. At one point, I considered a restraining order to be placed on the Ex-president to stay away from my current home! Even went to the police station to make a report! Believe me, I have done my level best to stay out of the HOA business completely! It finds me and without warning too!

I moved to a house directly behind the HOA, into a non-HOA neigbhorhood. It's about a miles drive by road to the new house. I bought the house as an investment property to flip. Unfornately, I got stuck with the house when I lost my job and my rental home tenant in my HOA didn't pay rent. It forced me to sell the HOA home. My decision to stay in the area is based on the location and house values increases. It is NOT to keep in touch with my former HOA or neighbors. Heck, I found this house by accident and didn't realize exactly how close it was to my other house at the time. (It's walking distance and almost viewing). I think it's the idea that I am still "close by" that keeps the people dragging me in. I can't afford to move so I am stuck where I am at.

The first few weeks I moved to my new house, I kept noticing a police car driving by a few times. Thought they were "impressed" with my home improvements and were a "neighbor". I have 3 policeman within a block of my house. Later, I discovered that the Ex-President had called the police and told them I was responsible for the rash of break-ins in the HOA!!! The current president's gun was stolen from her car and he reported it was me that did it! He also told the board members the same thing! Mind you that I was the Neighborhood watch captain and heard about the break-ins. Never thinking I was some kind of "Suspect". Turns out one of the board members sons was completely responsible for all the break-ins. He was caught when he took a baseball bat to one of my neighbors as she stopped him from robbing the Ex-presiden't vehicle! I heard later that the ex-president "apologized" to that neighbor for accusing me but NEVER apologized to me personally. Mind you the WHOLE time, I was at home minding my own business not even involved with any of it! (I was an owner at the time but not living there.)

A few years ago, the president who took over after I left, called me. She called with an apology and asking for some advice on a situation. A few months ago, the HOA dragged me into a court case. The court issued a subpeona on that one so no choice!

I promise I am NOT looking to be involved with my former HOA. It's a matter that I was once an "expert" on the HOA's documentation and I was asked for advice for the other members to pursue their own avenue of "fight". There's NO money coming from my pocket to support their plans. Just providing guidance and giving them "insight" into what their rights are and what possible approach the BOD/President may take against them. I know BOTH sides of the fence here. I just may be balancing the scales a bit. Ironically, I am sure someone from the current BOD will contact me for advice! I will provide it to them as well. It's just that I know that they are wrong in this case, and will be advised as such. Hopefully, avoiding a lawsuit with compromise after all! Once both sides know what they are up against. It's only fair!

Former HOA President
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


09/13/2007 4:35 PM  
"It's turned out that 100% of the time, I am being dragged in to the HOA drama that I left behind. Unfornately, it's NOT my choice."

You can't be dragged anywhere you don't want to go. (Other than for the case you indicated you received a subpoena to be called into court)

Don't want to sound harsh or critical but step back for your own health and well being.

Signed,

Dr. Phil
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


09/13/2007 4:55 PM  
I wonder, I wonder why we have not heard from Roger, Gloria and Joe in this thread.

I would take this as a sign Melissa, and back off, there may be sharks in the water where you live.
TracyT
(Maryland)

Posts:228


09/13/2007 4:56 PM  
Melissa,

"The first few weeks I moved to my new house, I kept noticing a police car driving by a few times. Thought they were "impressed" with my home improvements and were a "neighbor". I have 3 policeman within a block of my house. Later, I discovered that the Ex-President had called the police and told them I was responsible for the rash of break-ins in the HOA!!! The current president's gun was stolen from her car and he reported it was me that did it! He also told the board members the same thing! Mind you that I was the Neighborhood watch captain and heard about the break-ins. Never thinking I was some kind of "Suspect". Turns out one of the board members sons was completely responsible for all the break-ins. He was caught when he took a baseball bat to one of my neighbors as she stopped him from robbing the Ex-presiden't vehicle! I heard later that the ex-president "apologized" to that neighbor for accusing me but NEVER apologized to me personally. Mind you the WHOLE time, I was at home minding my own business not even involved with any of it! (I was an owner at the time but not living there.)"

Are you certain you don't have an ax to grind?

Based on your own advice suing your HOA is suing yourself. You also know this is the last resort. I think you really know the answer to your own question which a previous poster (Richard I think) replied. But advise your friends what you preach.

Try to talk with the BOD the way you want to be spoken to. Cite the rules, CCRs, laws etc. (book, chapter and verse) if that doesn't work oust them by vote. Having an attorney write a letter is an option - but only after the other methods.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


09/13/2007 5:20 PM  
Thanks Dr. Phil It's like having that "Crazy Aunt from waaay out of town" coming for a "Visit" at times. Just when you think they are gone and on a cruise ship somewhere "WHAM" they are at your door! Can't refuse to let them in since they are "Family" but you don't want to make them comfortable either!!!

Yes, there are personal issues involved. However, I let those go a long time ago. It's now a matter of laws and rules violations and NOT personal. Just the facts ma'am! .

By the way, the whole idea of the HOA being able to do the work and bill the owner for the work or be liened, wasn't my idea. It was presented to me by the Ex-president with whom is pulling the strings. I personally REFUSED to do it but KNEW it was legal and applicable. However, he has convinced the new President to take this approach. (He has his own unlicensed handi-man service). Something I was dead-set against doing unless it could be done unilaterally and fairly. (Impossible) and would NEVER EVER allow him to do. He is what you call "Double-dipping" the members and the HOA. If he doesn't get a bid upfront, he then tries to convince the BOD/President to take the "Lien" approach and hire him at a HIGHER cost than his upfront bids. All perfectly "legal" in his mind.

This is first-hand knowledge that I have that the other members don't. Especially the ones who are being "harrassed". So that is the information I have given these angry members so they know what's behind the whole "harrassment". It's not personal, it's just so the members understand why this approach is being taken and I never did it. They believe it's against the rules but it's technically not. I don't want them to start suing and finding out that the HOA really does have this right. That is an area that I am most concerned about protecting and preventing.

Former HOA President
JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728


09/13/2007 5:26 PM  
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/13/2007 4:55 PM
I wonder, I wonder why we have not heard from Roger, Gloria and Joe in this thread.

I would take this as a sign Melissa, and back off, there may be sharks in the water where you live.




RobertR1 - Not sure what Joe you mean but if it's me JoeW1 (not JosephWest) I'm absolutely stunned by what I consider to be the phsycosis. I realize now the dysfunction. MelissaaP1 - I want to offer you some very friendly advise, step away, go somewhere warm, lie on a beach, get some sun. You may be posting things on this site that you simply do not mean and are deconstructing in many ways. You are ranting with explanations, extrapolations, and I believe are crying out for help. Take the advice of the many posters. If you really wanted to get away, you would not have moved right next door to the HOA. I say this with the hopes that it is you that seeks recovery.
JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728


09/13/2007 5:32 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/13/2007 3:51 PM
Look, I moved out of my HOA years ago because of what I knew the current president and BOD would do. I did NOT want any part of it and don't even talk to them. Heck, I see these people out in public and I run the other way hoping they don't see me!!! I intentionally avoid places that I know the Current President or BOD members that I know may be. I can't even hang-out with my friends at a Hockey game because the President and the ex go there. If anything, I do my best to avoid contact with these people. At one point, I considered a restraining order to be placed on the Ex-president to stay away from my current home! Even went to the police station to make a report! Believe me, I have done my level best to stay out of the HOA business completely! It finds me and without warning too!

I moved to a house directly behind the HOA, into a non-HOA neigbhorhood. It's about a miles drive by road to the new house. I bought the house as an investment property to flip. Unfornately, I got stuck with the house when I lost my job and my rental home tenant in my HOA didn't pay rent. It forced me to sell the HOA home. My decision to stay in the area is based on the location and house values increases. It is NOT to keep in touch with my former HOA or neighbors. Heck, I found this house by accident and didn't realize exactly how close it was to my other house at the time. (It's walking distance and almost viewing). I think it's the idea that I am still "close by" that keeps the people dragging me in. I can't afford to move so I am stuck where I am at.

The first few weeks I moved to my new house, I kept noticing a police car driving by a few times. Thought they were "impressed" with my home improvements and were a "neighbor". I have 3 policeman within a block of my house. Later, I discovered that the Ex-President had called the police and told them I was responsible for the rash of break-ins in the HOA!!! The current president's gun was stolen from her car and he reported it was me that did it! He also told the board members the same thing! Mind you that I was the Neighborhood watch captain and heard about the break-ins. Never thinking I was some kind of "Suspect". Turns out one of the board members sons was completely responsible for all the break-ins. He was caught when he took a baseball bat to one of my neighbors as she stopped him from robbing the Ex-presiden't vehicle! I heard later that the ex-president "apologized" to that neighbor for accusing me but NEVER apologized to me personally. Mind you the WHOLE time, I was at home minding my own business not even involved with any of it! (I was an owner at the time but not living there.)

A few years ago, the president who took over after I left, called me. She called with an apology and asking for some advice on a situation. A few months ago, the HOA dragged me into a court case. The court issued a subpeona on that one so no choice!

I promise I am NOT looking to be involved with my former HOA. It's a matter that I was once an "expert" on the HOA's documentation and I was asked for advice for the other members to pursue their own avenue of "fight". There's NO money coming from my pocket to support their plans. Just providing guidance and giving them "insight" into what their rights are and what possible approach the BOD/President may take against them. I know BOTH sides of the fence here. I just may be balancing the scales a bit. Ironically, I am sure someone from the current BOD will contact me for advice! I will provide it to them as well. It's just that I know that they are wrong in this case, and will be advised as such. Hopefully, avoiding a lawsuit with compromise after all! Once both sides know what they are up against. It's only fair!




MelissaP1,

You have posted, "I did NOT want any part of it and don't even talk to them. Heck, I see these people out in public and I run the other way hoping they don't see me!!!"

Yet you post, "So that is the information I have given these angry members so they know what's behind the whole "harrassment". It's not personal, it's just so the members understand why this approach is being taken and I never did it. They believe it's against the rules but it's technically not. I don't want them to start suing and finding out that the HOA really does have this right. That is an area that I am most concerned about protecting and preventing."

Therein lies the dysfunction. If you did not want any part of it and don't even talk to them, how and wy are you giving the "angry members" information so the know what's behind the whole "harrassment".

It seems to me it is personal. Okay, nothing wrong with that especially with situations that pull upon the heartstrings. Recognize the need to step away and enjoy every other aspect that this wonderful world has to offer you.

Very best regards,
JoeW1
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5201


09/13/2007 5:44 PM  
Melissa you are involved because you want to be involved. Otherwise when people climbed your mountain to ask the HOA guru you would simply tell them you didn't want to get involved, eventually they would stop climbing.

I have read your posts even when you were posting under your male nom de plume, and remember the "drama" that involved the "con-man" I can't help but wonder if your interest is more personal than you have implied?

As far as the new president hiring her boyfriend the ex-president (not you the other ex-president) to do the repairs and billing the HO's while it may be improper is apparently legal from your own admission. The easiest and most expedient thing for everyone is for you to tell the HO's involved to make the repairs and bring their property up to the association's codes.

"Common sense is like deodorant--the people who need it most never use it."
NancyD1
(Florida)

Posts:447


09/13/2007 6:06 PM  
And the beat goes on, and on....
LindaC3


Posts:0


09/13/2007 6:30 PM  
MelissaP1--- may I offer you a friendly piece of advice along with all the other posters on this forum...Have you ever heard of the word "interferring" ?.......... The key words here are that YOU ARE NO LONGER A MEMBER OF THIS HOA....... Do not dispense "bad" legal advice with regards to suing an HOA that you do not belong to.....This type of bad advice will come back and bite you and if you are not careful someone will download all your posts and they may be used against you in a countersuit......Close the door to this member of your "family" ..Like one poster said...find another constructive outlet for all your unspent energies....This situation that you have gotten yourself wrapped up in is like driving down a one way street the wrong way....sooner or later your luck will run out and you will hit another car head on with disasterous consequences....Best of luck to you and may you find in your infinite wisdom to take some of this advice posted for your benefit and use it wisely............LindaC
GloriaM
(North Carolina)

Posts:829


09/13/2007 6:41 PM  
Oh my, on a personal level I really don't want to comment on this string for fear of not sounding professional. So I will continue to wear my MC hat and just say Melissa, listen to the many posters, leave your former Title behind, forgiveness is a wonderful gift. It allows you to move on to bigger and better things.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


09/13/2007 7:34 PM  
To all,
It is way late, but I think Melissa has fooled us all and is receiving just what she set out to get.

Good job girl, now take that energy and brains and put it to work on something useful.
LindaC3


Posts:0


09/13/2007 7:52 PM  
RobertR1..............BINGO...But i just needed to get all that I said to her off my chest and now I feel better...Off to do something constructive this late hr..like watch tv and fall asleep........... Smiles LindaC
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


09/14/2007 5:21 AM  
Thanks for the support all! Gee I thought I was amongst friends and comrades. Who knew that if you really care about people that you get judged and called "psycho". Gee, who'd thought living in a HOA could be "personal" and filled with personal relationships. No black and white issues is there?

It amazes me how other posters on here can complain about a wife, partner or relative can be on a BOD and complain about that and it not taken "personal" and offensive. I post something to let a few people in to get to know me as a "Human being" and not some robot with no heart because I was a HOA president, and everyone gets all judgemental and smart alecy.

I don't really care what you people think about me. I am going to do the right thing. That is support people who need my help and have requested it. It would be the same thing I would do for any poster on here if they needed someone to help them. Sometimes no matter what other people think or judge of you, you have to stand up and do what you believe is the right thing.

The right thing here is to do is to be there for the people who need the help and provide the correct resources and information. I don't have to get personally involved or make this my case. Just answer questions when asked and hope the best works out for all involved.

Sometimes, there really are HOA board members who don't hurt their membership and stand behind them no matter what. I am proud to say that I am one of those people who will stand behind and support people and not cop out and say it's not my fight. If the writers of the consitution of the United States took that approach when they left England, we'd be having "Tea" right now. Good luck to you people and goodbye!!!

Former HOA President
JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142


09/14/2007 6:37 AM  
WOW! This thread does seems like an episode of Dr. Phil, complete with the stomping off stage left.;)
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


09/14/2007 6:53 AM  
Melissa, some of us have said we don't WANT to be harsh or critical but from our perspectives it seems that that is what we are doing.

Would you rather we all NOT give you our honest suggestions/advice and instead tell you what you WANT to hear, not what you need to hear?

Seems to me friends/comrades would do the former not the latter, mind you, perhaps in a more gentle manner than some have.
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


09/14/2007 7:06 AM  
To all,
As a request to the folks running this site:

I would like to suggest that this entire thread be deleted.

The reasons are obvious, not the least being; there is not creditable information here that would serve as a reference to the operation of any kind of HOA.
JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728


09/14/2007 7:17 AM  
MelissaP1 - If you didn't care about what we think or have recommended, why post at all? I don't see where anyone posted you are a psycho. However, there seems to be some psychosis evidencing itself as a delusion of grandeur.

As for your claims of keeping positive, you post to me that I was never a board member or held office. That is false. Do you make other claims as such of people in your former HOA? If so, the police you write that are circling around your home may be doing more than surveillance on your neighbors.

Not sure if you've ever read Catcher in the Rye. Your efforts to "be there for people" who supposedly "need help" are similar to the main character Holden who is experiencing adolescence and trying to keep the children running in the rye field from falling of a nearby cliff. In reality he is trying to save them from the same mistakes he experienced growing up.

Sometimes Mellisa, as in your scenarios and situation the best thing to do is walk away and let people grow up on their own and learn by their mistakes. Since you no longer reside in the HOA, there can be no valid claim that your clinging to the cracks in that foundation will protect your investment.

As for RobertR1's request to HOATalk to delete this entire thread, I respectfully object. I think it should be kept for historical purposes to evidence the real intent of the author. I think it is very relevant to the operation of an HOA because it shows what we all have to tolerate and the kinds of characters living in one.
JC3


Posts:290


09/14/2007 9:36 AM  
I object to it being removed, too.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:9451


01/08/2012 8:17 PM  
Anne,

As you know people act/react to situations based on their experiences, training, etc.

To my knowledge, everyone here only knows each other through their postings. What isn't known about someone tends to be filled in by expectations based on experiences and, perhaps, people we associate with. As an example, based on your postings, you remind me of an individual in my Association. What I don't know about you may typically be filled in by an expectation on how that individual would react (because you remind me of them).

I know, well I would like to think, that I have changed my behavior based on gaining experiences, additional knowledge, etc.

This thread is from 2007. I suspect many posters have changed since then.

As the big yellow banner at the top of the site says, this is to be a positive place for people to exchange ideas. Since we are human, there are many times posters on this forum have disagreed with each other. Fortunately, for the most part, they just agree to disagree. All advice is offered freely and, as with any advice, may be taken in whole, in part or simply discarded.

Tim
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:9451


01/08/2012 8:37 PM  
I see that I failed to finish my thought before posting:

Posted By TimB4 on 01/08/2012 8:17 PM

To my knowledge, everyone here only knows each other through their postings. What isn't known about someone tends to be filled in by expectations based on experiences and, perhaps, people we associate with. As an example, based on your postings, you remind me of an individual in my Association. What I don't know about you may typically be filled in by an expectation on how that individual would react (because you remind me of them).




to continue on that thought:

Unfortunately, if I have an unfavorable opinion of the individual you remind me of, I might have a bias to anything you say. Right or wrong, this is human nature and it takes time to expand beyond that expectation and base the reactions and relationships on the individual and not the expectation.


MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


01/08/2012 9:43 PM  
Thanks Tim. Wondered why my old post from like 5 years ago showed back up...LOL. Brought back some memories for me. I also know people similar to this and it's nothing new...To each their own pedastool I say...! LOL...

Former HOA President
AnneT


Posts:0


01/09/2012 12:14 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 01/08/2012 8:17 PM
Anne,

As you know people act/react to situations based on their experiences, training, etc.

To my knowledge, everyone here only knows each other through their postings. What isn't known about someone tends to be filled in by expectations based on experiences and, perhaps, people we associate with. As an example, based on your postings, you remind me of an individual in my Association. What I don't know about you may typically be filled in by an expectation on how that individual would react (because you remind me of them).

I know, well I would like to think, that I have changed my behavior based on gaining experiences, additional knowledge, etc.

This thread is from 2007. I suspect many posters have changed since then.

As the big yellow banner at the top of the site says, this is to be a positive place for people to exchange ideas. Since we are human, there are many times posters on this forum have disagreed with each other. Fortunately, for the most part, they just agree to disagree. All advice is offered freely and, as with any advice, may be taken in whole, in part or simply discarded.

Tim




No THEY haven't changed. I came looking to try to find a clue for the animosity emanating from this individual. I found it. That person treats everyone that way.

I was attacked and ridiculed so if you want to talk about judging someone I was judged and very unfairly.

I get your message that I remind you of someone at work. Since you didn't say anything about that person I figure it is probably negative.

The way it is with me is that for too long I was intimidated by people and would become invisible because I thought I had no right to an opinion. That was yesterday.

When someone sets out to harrass, ridicule and intimidate me I call it what it is.

You don't have to do anything about it. I used to wait for someone to rescue me even when I was a child. No one ever did. At this stage of my life I realize the only person who is going to rescue me is me.

I left my note here for future victims of this person. I guess I am not PC enough for most people. I don't pretend that skunk smells like a rose and I don't pretend like a snake is a cat. It is what it is.

AnneT


Posts:0


01/09/2012 12:20 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/08/2012 9:43 PM
Thanks Tim. Wondered why my old post from like 5 years ago showed back up...LOL. Brought back some memories for me. I also know people similar to this and it's nothing new...To each their own pedastool I say...! LOL...





I've met people like you before. Not my imagination because I looked at more than a few of your previous posts and your behavior is the same in every one of them.

Here's what you wrote to me right out of the starting gate when I had explained exactly how I knew that it was our money being donated and not the people in the HOA. You're a hypocrite. You tell people to speak up when they see something isn't right and then when they do your pit viper personality comes out.

This is what you wrote to me and you had no reason to be such a bitch. A bitch is a bitch and you are one. You say you don't see the full story maybe that's because you can't read anything other than your own drivel.



FROM MELISSA THE SNIPER:

What do you think a HOA is supposed to do? There's reality and fantasy. HOA's aren't run by "Proffessionals". They are run by people who just have a vested interest in keeping their home values up. The President could be the "avon lady" or a Real Estate agent. There's no hard rules on who is on the board nor who are the members of the HOA. Just have to be an homeowner.

I don't see the full story coming out here. Since you don't attend meetings, how do you know it's your dues being used? How do you know this isn't a charity the homeowners donate to every year on their own? I don't see proof your dues are being used to supply the charity.

A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. It works like a "poker kitty". Everyone pitches in but the person with the best hand/squeeky wheel wins the pot...There's just no way to please everyone with the money the HOA has in it's budget. Someone is going to complain about something. Why do we spend money on new mailboxes but not on a lightbulb that burnt out at the entrance? Etc...

Until you make the effort to get involved and educated, expect what you get. I don't believe anyone has a say in their HOA if they don't have a solution and work toward getting there. Everyone has problems and issues, they just don't make the effort to make the fixes or solutions..... The power is yours, if you don't use it, then keep making up excuses...
AnneT


Posts:0


01/09/2012 12:28 AM  
We could have left it to be as it was. I was satisfied however Tim and Melissa (or Melissa if Tim is another of her alter egos) can't tolerate my not pretending to recognize a bitch for a bitch.

I wrote and explained very clearly how I felt our funds were misused and I explained why and how and where I came up with that knowledge.

MISS BITCH just can't hold her tongue so she accuses me of Fantasy thinking. I not the narcissitic psycho here - Melissa is. I despise people like you because you like to play games with people. You pretend with your smiley faces to be "nice" the whole time you are actually attacking people.

I'm not worried - I know that there are many other people who have been harrassed and stalked by Miss Melissa and I have no doubt that others will bbe in the future.

If you don't like me warning people not to pay Miss Bitch any mind - that's your problem.

Would you like me to cut and paste all the nasty things you've said to everyone Melissa? That way I can save them the trouble of going from page to page and they can get the total picture all in one.

You haven't changed as evidenced by the fact that on the question I wrote everyone was very courteous and helpful except for YOU. You're a narcissistic psychotic bitch.

If you belong on a stool it would be in the outhouse where the stench of you would fit right in.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:9451


01/09/2012 12:36 AM  
Anne,

I was not implying that I had a positive or negative impression of you. I was just trying to give an example of how someone might have certain expectations based on their experiences.

AnneT


Posts:0


01/09/2012 12:42 AM  
Posted By AnneT on 01/09/2012 12:20 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/08/2012 9:43 PM
Thanks Tim. Wondered why my old post from like 5 years ago showed back up...LOL. Brought back some memories for me. I also know people similar to this and it's nothing new...To each their own pedastool I say...! LOL...


FROM MELISSA THE SNIPER:

What do you think a HOA is supposed to do? There's reality and fantasy. HOA's aren't run by "Proffessionals". They are run by people who just have a vested interest in keeping their home values up. The President could be the "avon lady" or a Real Estate agent. There's no hard rules on who is on the board nor who are the members of the HOA. Just have to be an homeowner.

I don't see the full story coming out here. Since you don't attend meetings, how do you know it's your dues being used? How do you know this isn't a charity the homeowners donate to every year on their own? I don't see proof your dues are being used to supply the charity.

A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. It works like a "poker kitty". Everyone pitches in but the person with the best hand/squeeky wheel wins the pot...There's just no way to please everyone with the money the HOA has in it's budget. Someone is going to complain about something. Why do we spend money on new mailboxes but not on a lightbulb that burnt out at the entrance? Etc...

Until you make the effort to get involved and educated, expect what you get. I don't believe anyone has a say in their HOA if they don't have a solution and work toward getting there. Everyone has problems and issues, they just don't make the effort to make the fixes or solutions..... The power is yours, if you don't use it, then keep making up excuses...




To answer your question Miss Bitch - What I expect an HOA to do with the money collected from homeowners? I'll tell you what I DON'T expect them to do with them and that is donate the money to some alleged probably non-existent homeless people whom I have never met. I expect them to use them for the purposes they are collected. My HOA is not registered as a charitable organization. Upon pressure from more than a few members they finally published in the HOA blog in the local south KC newspaper what they did with the money they collected. THAT'S how I know STUPID BITCH - if you weren't always looking for something to hassle people about you would have found the answers. INSTEAD the first words out of your BITCH mouth were rude and stupid and derogatory so you can take your SUPERIOR B.S. and shove it. I'll let you figure out where.

I do that too, Tim, I see the one someone conducts themselves and just like with what you did me, I now have a good idea how you operate. And I don't like you any better than you or Melissa like me.

I can live with that. What I can't live with is playing games like the BITCH / Pit Viper here likes to play.

If you look like a bitch, act like a bitch, sound like a bitch and probably smell like a bitch - You're a BITCH.

Everyone else here was being very subtle in their reactions to your bullshit. I'm not into subtle. And I'm also not into people who form alliances to attack one person.

This was between the BITCH and me but now TIM has decided to join the conversation.

Don't expect any PC bullshit from me, I haven't got the time or the patience to play your stupid games, either of you.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:9451


01/09/2012 1:04 AM  
Anne,

I've done nothing but try to assist you.
I hope that the advice I offered was useful.
As with any advice your free to use all of it, some of it or none of it.

I hold no animosity toward you and I'm not sure why you hold any against me. I wish I did, as it might help me better express myself so not to create that animosity. Either way, it is certainly your prerogative to have such an opinion and your right to express it.

To keep things civil, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

In my opinion, your postings in this thread are inappropriate and are in violation of the posting rules established by the owners of this site. Therefore, I have reported them to the moderator.


AnneT


Posts:0


01/09/2012 1:15 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 01/09/2012 1:04 AM
Anne,

I've done nothing but try to assist you.
I hope that the advice I offered was useful.
As with any advice your free to use all of it, some of it or none of it.

I hold no animosity toward you and I'm not sure why you hold any against me. I wish I did, as it might help me better express myself so not to create that animosity. Either way, it is certainly your prerogative to have such an opinion and your right to express it.

To keep things civil, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

In my opinion, your postings in this thread are inappropriate and are in violation of the posting rules established by the owners of this site. Therefore, I have reported them to the moderator.






If they are in violation of whatever - am I supposed to be afraid? YOU attacked me clearly and Melissa thanked you for coming to her aid so like I said, I am not PC-oriented.

Have me banned - I don't care - clearly this is a club for social misfits and psychotic tramps with visions of grandeur who like to gossip and snipe about who did what to whom.

Both of you attacked me, yours was a bit more subtle. So don't put this on me. But please do whatever you want call whoever you want I DON'T CARE because I won't be back I don't need the kind of bullshit that goes on here. You and the BITCH can hangout all you like but NOT ME.
AnneT


Posts:0


01/09/2012 1:19 AM  
All you've done is try to help me? Yes, in the beginning you did. Then you decided to step in and help MELISSA the pit-viper and join forces against me so please, I'm not stupid. Be honest and tell the truth. Don't play games.

Anyway, I have all the information I need and more than enough evidence that this is no place I care to be.

To anyone else who finds this conversation - do a search like I did and you'll get the scoop on MELISSA right away. She USED TO BE PRESIDENT and she gives all sorts of hateful advice because she's entitled to after all SHE USED TO BE PRESIDENT. Now she's stalking the new president and harrassing her neighbors. good for her.

YOU two deserve each other.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


01/09/2012 4:33 AM  
Tim I will share a meal of crow with you anytime...

Advice is free, it's up to you to take it or not. Advice never said it was kind, accurate, or for you. It's just free...


Former HOA President
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5201


01/09/2012 5:43 AM  
Anne, I personally have a problem with some of the "advice" Melissa dispenses and have called her on it but she is not the one who devolved the thread into unwarranted name calling - YOU DID.

"Common sense is like deodorant--the people who need it most never use it."
BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:2485


01/09/2012 6:14 AM  
Glen,

Your post may have fallen on deaf ears. I noticed Anne's post count has dropped to zero which probably indicates she has cancelled her forum registration.
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


01/09/2012 11:03 AM  
If nothing else this is a good wakeup call for all of us to put ourselves in the poster's shoes. A lot of times they are very inexperienced or no experience and look to us for help. Heck I am still very inexperienced at all of this. Sometimes while well intentioned, unnecessary commentary can be construed negatively by others.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4910


01/09/2012 2:44 PM  
That's a good view to take BradP. However, posters similar to AnneT aren't unusual to deal with. The littlest thing can set them off and drag you down with them. My original post that set her off wasn't that bad. I only posted one thing before she took personally.

There are people you can help and there are people you can help be victims...This was someone who wanted help being a better victim than getting help to solve their issues.

I know I am not perfect nor is my advice all that great...It's free and it comes from experience. You can take it or you can leave it. I just hope it makes you think of another angle that may help you in the end.

Former HOA President
JeanneK3
(Maryland)

Posts:556


01/14/2012 1:59 PM  
Although I haven't read the above thoroughly, I did note that it seemed to be assumed that just because it is in bylaws that the association can enter property and repair something and bill the homeowner doesn't mean you can do it without a court order. State and county laws that prohibit trespassing on someone's property would trump anything in association documents. The reason is that the documents are contracts, not laws, and only a court of law can determine if a violation is really a violation that would allow one to bypass trespassing laws.
Got the above from the Howard County Police who said if called by an owner because a contractor was on their property illegally, they would come and force the contractor to leave.
Jeanne
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


01/14/2012 2:43 PM  
Jeanne:

great point and as a personal safety note I would never enter someone's property to repair something without some police protection unless you like to look down the barrel of a gun. Too risky.
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