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Subject: Violation of handicap designated parking space in our community garage
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BrendaD4
(California)

Posts:3


08/06/2019 1:56 PM  
There has been a car parked for over 3 months in our handicap designated parking space in our parking garage without a valid handicap placard & an expired registration.The HOA & MGT Co was advised 3 months ago,it has not been rectified.They have turned a blind eye discriminating against 5-6 homeowners who actual have valid handicap placards.rd.Who can this violation be reported to?
AugustinD


Posts:1886


08/06/2019 2:08 PM  
Complete this form and submit to the address given in its instructions: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/forms/inv/inv172a
AugustinD


Posts:1886


08/06/2019 2:21 PM  
Also file a complaint with the state's Fair Employment and Housing Department, as linked here:

https://www.dfeh.ca.gov/complaint-process/file-a-complaint/filing-a-complaint-by-mail-2/

https://www.dfeh.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2018/06/IF-Housing_ENG32019.pdf
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6534


08/06/2019 4:02 PM  
Sounds like the HOA owns this space, right, Brenda?

Along with Augustin's suggestions, also complain in writing to the Mgmt. Co (MC) citing your HOA's rule(s) about this. Include a photo of the car.

Does you HOA have signage about towing cars that are illegally parked on HOA property? In your email to the MC, ask them to tow the car in violation of your rules.

How often does the board meet? In CA, board meeting must be open to owners. You & other owners, especially the ones who are affected, should all attend and speak during the CA-required open forum and complain bitterly. Ask that the car be towed and that the owners be called to a hearing and fined for f rules violation. This does assume that your HOA has a fining schedule for rules violations.
BrendaD4
(California)

Posts:3


08/06/2019 4:22 PM  
I have emailed& sent photos the Mgt Co for 3 months and spoke to a member of the HOA.
I will file on the 2 sights Augstin recommended.
The owner apparently passed away and the person who is handling her estate has not moved it.
I recommended the board tow it and send him the bill. The HOA ignored my suggestions.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/06/2019 4:33 PM  
Wait that sheds new light on the issue. It may be they can't legally move it. The estate has to go through Probate court. Plus the person has to gain title to the vehicle. Once they get the title it then has to be licensed. So this process can take 6 months or more.

Was helping my brother move this weekend. There was a van sitting in his driveway. I was like where did that come from and why can't you use it to help move? He said the van belonged to his deceased landlord. The new owner of her property and his can't take possession of it even though he bought ALL her property including what was parked in driveway/garage. It's not licensed or titled in his name. So the van has to sit until the title can be obtained. It's illegal to drive an unlicensed/untitled vehicle.

Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:1886


08/06/2019 4:34 PM  
Brenda, consider cc'ing the board and the HOA attorney a copy of your complaints. This may expedite a solution. To say the least, burdening the handicapped in violation of the law is not cool. Caveat: It would be best if the person submitting the complaints is one of the disabled people who need a handicapped parking space.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3763


08/06/2019 9:45 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/06/2019 4:33 PM
Wait that sheds new light on the issue. It may be they can't legally move it. The estate has to go through Probate court. Plus the person has to gain title to the vehicle. Once they get the title it then has to be licensed. So this process can take 6 months or more.

Was helping my brother move this weekend. There was a van sitting in his driveway. I was like where did that come from and why can't you use it to help move? He said the van belonged to his deceased landlord. The new owner of her property and his can't take possession of it even though he bought ALL her property including what was parked in driveway/garage. It's not licensed or titled in his name. So the van has to sit until the title can be obtained. It's illegal to drive an unlicensed/untitled vehicle.



The vehicle, if actually parked in a handicap space is subject to a immediate citation for law information, no ifs, ands or butts.

Been there, Done that
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/07/2019 4:05 AM  
If it is placard for handicap then it can stay there. I still say that if it's NOT licensed/title it can't move far. Someone should consider the OTHER side of things. Someone just lost a love one after all. Having someone harassing them to move a car when they are still grieving the loss is a bit much...

Former HOA President
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:81


08/07/2019 4:29 AM  
What ever happened to common courtesy? It's been over 3 months and all the person needs to do is have the car towed to another location. The fact is the car is needlessly occupying a handicapped parking spot and it needs to be moved so that it is available to those that need it.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6534


08/07/2019 8:46 AM  
Speaking to a "member of the HOA," which I'm guessing is a member of the board of directors, Brenda would not help. along with other suggestions, I again urge you and your neighbors, especially those who need that space attend the next open board meeting and express your opinion at open forum.

How did you recommend the Board tow the car? By letter ? At a board meeting? Does your HOA have towing signs and rules about parking in handicap spaces?

When is the next board meeting??
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8550


08/07/2019 9:51 AM  
I would consider having the vehicle towed to a legal parking spot as close to its present location as possible then zip lip.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/08/2019 4:53 AM  
Has anyone looked at the laws regarding vehicles left behind by the deceased? What happens if no one has title to the vehicle or if the tags are not current?

I am pointing this out as it's not as "easy" as towing. There may be some REAL legal reasons out there why the vehicle is staying. So before you all ASSUME this person is being rude and disrespectful, maybe see what laws may be in their way of taking action.

NOTE: If a house is foreclosed on, the new owner in some states can NOT touch the house for up to a year! There is a period called "Right of Redemption". The original owner has up to a year to pay back the money owed and catch up on the mortgage. So a new owner has no benefit if they fix up the house and then the original owner comes back to claim it.

I bring this up as sounds like someone who would also be blaming the HOA for no one fixing up a foreclosed house. What do you expect if the owner is tied up with legal issues that they can't do anything about? Getting a new title or tag from the deceased takes time. Probate alone is around a 6 month or longer process. So don't jump to conclusions that the HOA or the MC can by-pass laws.

Former HOA President
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:133


08/08/2019 5:42 AM  
Posted By BrendaD4 on 08/06/2019 4:22 PM
I have emailed& sent photos the Mgt Co for 3 months and spoke to a member of the HOA.
I will file on the 2 sights Augstin recommended.
The owner apparently passed away and the person who is handling her estate has not moved it.
I recommended the board tow it and send him the bill. The HOA ignored my suggestions.





It appears the HOA has more empathy than you.
AugustinD


Posts:1886


08/08/2019 5:52 AM  
Posted By SamE2 on 08/08/2019 5:42 AM
It appears the HOA has more empathy than you.


Nonsense. In this case the needs of the living, and particularly the disabled, have priority over the dead.

A municipality would not hesitate to tow a vehicle parked in a metered space long expired, without caring to whom the vehicle belonged.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6534


08/08/2019 7:05 AM  
I agree entirely with Augustin.
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:133


08/08/2019 8:17 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 08/08/2019 5:52 AM
Posted By SamE2 on 08/08/2019 5:42 AM
It appears the HOA has more empathy than you.


Nonsense. In this case the needs of the living, and particularly the disabled, have priority over the dead.

A municipality would not hesitate to tow a vehicle parked in a metered space long expired, without caring to whom the vehicle belonged.





Right because one parking place is going to tip the scales of justice in the world we live. We are talking about one parking place, if that is their biggest problem they should be very grateful.

KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6534


08/08/2019 8:49 AM  
Sam, if like our "extra" parking, there is only one handicap space. The pint is that actual living residents with handicaps cannot park there. Nor can actual alive residents' handicapped guests park there. .
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:338


08/08/2019 8:53 AM  
Posted By SamE2 on 08/08/2019 8:17 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 08/08/2019 5:52 AM
Posted By SamE2 on 08/08/2019 5:42 AM
It appears the HOA has more empathy than you.


Nonsense. In this case the needs of the living, and particularly the disabled, have priority over the dead.

A municipality would not hesitate to tow a vehicle parked in a metered space long expired, without caring to whom the vehicle belonged.





Right because one parking place is going to tip the scales of justice in the world we live. We are talking about one parking place, if that is their biggest problem they should be very grateful.





The board's duty to protect the HOA, and this includes avoiding getting sued. They may be ignoring the issue, or they may be stuck in the middle of the never ending nightmare that is probate. Throw in issues with disabilities and towing other people's property (hat's no doubt part of an estate, and you've got a potential legal minefield. I don't blame them for stepping slowly and cautiously.

The board's fiduciary duties do not include achieving world justice. While some board members may believe they are omnipotent, most experienced directors learn the limits of their powers and can spot red herrings pretty easily.
AugustinD


Posts:1886


08/08/2019 11:41 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 08/08/2019 8:53 AM
The board's duty to protect the HOA, and this includes avoiding getting sued. They may be ignoring the issue, or they may be stuck in the middle of the never ending nightmare that is probate.
There's the unlawful discrimination-on-the-basis-of-disability suit for not having the correct, city-required (or FHA required) number of handicapped spaces. Then there's the suit that Sam, Melissa, and you appear to claim will happen because an unlawfully parked vehicle was towed, with the plaintiff presumably the estate of the deceased, suing for the damages caused by... towing?

The legal duties of an executor/executrix require him or her to keep property safe until distribution is made per the terms of the will. Maintaining a vehicle in an unlawful parking spot where it may be towed or ticketed is not keeping the vehicle safe.

I appreciate your claim that a violation of disability and fair housing law is a red herring.

We disagree. No big deal.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:338


08/08/2019 12:13 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 08/08/2019 11:41 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 08/08/2019 8:53 AM
The board's duty to protect the HOA, and this includes avoiding getting sued. They may be ignoring the issue, or they may be stuck in the middle of the never ending nightmare that is probate.
There's the unlawful discrimination-on-the-basis-of-disability suit for not having the correct, city-required (or FHA required) number of handicapped spaces. Then there's the suit that Sam, Melissa, and you appear to claim will happen because an unlawfully parked vehicle was towed, with the plaintiff presumably the estate of the deceased, suing for the damages caused by... towing?

The legal duties of an executor/executrix require him or her to keep property safe until distribution is made per the terms of the will. Maintaining a vehicle in an unlawful parking spot where it may be towed or ticketed is not keeping the vehicle safe.

I appreciate your claim that a violation of disability and fair housing law is a red herring.

We disagree. No big deal.




No, no, the disability and fair housing stuff isn't the red herring, it was the comment about the HOA being concerned with "achieving justice" rather than concentrating on possibly conflicting legal issues. I really didn't explain that well at all. (Note to self: don't post when migraine threatens.)
AugustinD


Posts:1886


08/08/2019 12:32 PM  
Okay, thanks for explaining.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/08/2019 3:45 PM  
Damage is caused by towing. That's why they offer towing insurance...Plus where is the tow truck going to tow it to? An impound yard? Prepare the HOA to be sued for that expense. The impound yard charges for keeping. Where they going to tow it to another spot in the parking lot?

I say leave it alone where it is. Find out the legal reasons why or how it has to be properly moved. Thanks for bringing it to the HOA's attention. Doesn't mean they are to be involved in moving it.

Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:1886


08/08/2019 4:09 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/08/2019 3:45 PM
Damage is caused by towing.
If you towed the vehicle, I expect damage would occur. A licensed towing company will know how to lift the drive wheels off the ground and not cause damage. Else the towing company ordinarily will have insurance. But I can dig your lack of concern for handicapped folks who need the parking space.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/08/2019 5:55 PM  
Um if you recall from the OP the car does have a handicap placard. It's just expired. So handicap person did/does own this vehicle. What rule then are they violating? An expired handicap placard? The car may not be registered. Unregistered means no valid tags. You can't drive on invalid tags... Technicalities I am pointing out...

I don't care how great your tow company is. Accidents still happen. It's why towing insurance is an option on your PERSONAL insurance. Do you know a tow truck company is required to carry tow insurance?

Former HOA President
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:81


08/08/2019 6:10 PM  
You are wrong. Re-read the OP's first post. It states:

"There has been a car parked for over 3 months in our handicap designated parking space in our parking garage without a valid handicap placard & an expired registration."

I find the argument that an executor of an estate would be allowed to violate the HOA rules simply 'because' baffling. If he decided to paint the deceased person home purple when the rules specify a different color would you let it slide or would you enforce the rule? Also, the fact that this person has allowed a car to occupy a handicapped spot for at least three months tells me all I need to know about them. Doesn't he or she have an obligation to protect the deceased persons property instead of leaving the car basically abandoned and subject to theft or damage? Why doesn't he or she move it to the driveway of the deceased? Why haven't they mustered up enough energy to figure out how to move the vehicle after a 3 month period of time? Odds it's a mix of being rude, incompetent and having no regard for the deceased persons property.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:338


08/09/2019 4:39 AM  
We would probably treat this as any other parking violation: written notice(s) to the executor of violation (copied to police) that car had been towed and could be retrieved by contacting Joe's Triple A Super Duper Towing, contact info following. Note that our parking restriction gives the association permission to tow vehicles and we display the proper notice on our property that we are a tow away zone. Some parking violations are subject to immediate towing, others require multiple written notices with deadlines. A vehicle without a handicapped sticker parked in a handicap designated space is an immediate tow; inoperable vehicles (such as ones with expired tags) need multiple notices.

However... This is where you have possibly conflicting legal requirements: the need to respond appropriately to this violation vs. the need to follow "due process" in handling said violation. Our normal procedure is to give our attorney a heads up before tackling anything where fair housing laws come into play. We'd also want his guidance since this situation involves an estate and executor, and there may be specific requirements related to that. In fact, this situation is sticky enough that we'd probably turn it over to him and let him handle it. I believe in spending (fewer) legal dollars to keep us out of trouble rather than spending a lot to deal with whatever mess we've gotten ourselves into.

MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/09/2019 4:58 AM  
Note: There was a car in New York City parked on the side of the road for nearly 20 years recently towed. It became like a feature of the neighborhood after awhile. People were shocked and upset the car was finally moved. The owner had died years ago. Somehow the car was able to stay parked there for all those years.

Former HOA President
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