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Subject: Who Is Correct
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JeffM22
(Washington)

Posts:2


08/02/2019 12:14 PM  
Hi. New to the site and grateful for this resource. I belong to an HOA and was the president when the first board was formed. Our CC&Rs has two issues that deal with parking of vehicles. The first section states - "All vehicles must be stored in garages or in a manner the board determines in not offensive when viewed from the street or from the ground level of adjacent lots". The second sections states - "The board shall have full authority to determine if any vehicle is obnoxious or undesirable to other lot owners and take appropriate steps to correct such a violation of this covenant.

While I was on the board, the board decided that based on these two sections, that homeowners were not to park their vehicles on the street. This was based on allowing emergency vehicles free access to residences without obstructing their ingress, safety for the children living in the HOA so a child did not run out between parked cars into traffic (which has happened prior to the decision not to park on the street), ease of city street crews to clean the streets and remove snow,for sanitation crews to pick up garbage and for delivery trucks to be able to conduct their business without blocked or obstructed streets. The board took the issue to the homeowners at the first annual meeting and there were no challenges nor arguments.

Then, because the declarant was still involved with the ongoing development, the entire board resigned due to the declarant's continued usurping the boards position on the HOA matters.

A new board was formed about a year latter and that board agreed with the previous board on the no parking allowed on the street issue. However, the original property management company quit and the new board brought on a new property management company. This new property management company is now telling all of us that the issue of parking on the street falls to the city to enforce. The city allows up to 14 days of street parking which totally goes against what the board homeowners want.

So my question here is, who is right, the board and homeowners or the new property management company? Thank you for all of your input on this matter.
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:121


08/02/2019 12:34 PM  
More information is needed, your CC&R's will state if the city deeded the streets to the HOA. First find out who owns the street. If the city owns it, then only they can enforce the parking rules and it appears cars can be parked. Then you would have to petition the city to ban parking on the street.
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:195


08/02/2019 1:13 PM  
The new management company is correct. You said the city cleans and removes snow from the streets so it is also up to the city to make parking rules following the states guidelines. If the HOA owned the street the city would not clean them and remove the snow.
RichardP13


Posts:0


08/02/2019 1:25 PM  
First off, the Board making the decision what is and what is not "obnoxious" or "undesirable" is a joke! Just curious, what does the board think is obnoxious or undesirable?

The answer is the PM is correct!
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:121


08/02/2019 1:33 PM  
The deed still needs to be checked. We've had both occurrences where the HOA was cleaning streets owned by the state and the opposite where the private street was cleaned by the state. It's only when someone checked the deed that decisions were reversed or a new policy was made.



JeffM22
(Washington)

Posts:2


08/02/2019 3:03 PM  
Thank you to all who have replied back to me on this issue. Yes the city owns and maintains the streets so per the responses here, looks like we are left to the city's requirements. I really appreciate your input. Have a great weekend.
MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:459


08/02/2019 3:26 PM  
Jeff,
They really need to re write that Obnoxious or Undesirable clause. I have been on boards for 9 years. I would not want other members of my board or myself for that matter deciding obnoxiousness of other peoples cars. I am not a fan of cars that have loud engines or exhausts. Boards should not be given this much latitude on any subject expressly when they are this subjective.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8877


08/02/2019 4:12 PM  
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8877


08/02/2019 4:18 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:12 PM
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL




ADDITION

HOA docs cannot usurp local government. Examples

1. Local says overnight parking allowed. HOA says no overnight parking allowed. HOA wins.
2. Local says no overnight parking allowed. HOA says overnight parking allowed. HOA loses.

Now the tricky part. #1. A non-owner parks overnight on the street. Nothing the HOA can do.

RichardP13


Posts:0


08/02/2019 6:05 PM  
???????????????????
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JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8877


08/02/2019 6:07 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 08/02/2019 6:05 PM
???????????????????
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Please amplify.
PestY


Posts:0


08/03/2019 7:37 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:18 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:12 PM
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL




ADDITION

HOA docs cannot usurp local government. Examples

1. Local says overnight parking allowed. HOA says no overnight parking allowed. HOA wins.
2. Local says no overnight parking allowed. HOA says overnight parking allowed. HOA loses.

Now the tricky part. #1. A non-owner parks overnight on the street. Nothing the HOA can do.





PRECISELY

+

? Who, within the HOA, will volunteer to maintain the/an ACCURATE and UP TO DATE list of member's vehicle license plates to enable contractual enforcement (of the member's overnight parking restriction) ?

IMO: the BOD should stick to maintenance issues and MYOB (which is the operation of the corporation)
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:195


08/03/2019 10:41 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:18 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:12 PM
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL




ADDITION

HOA docs cannot usurp local government. Examples

1. Local says overnight parking allowed. HOA says no overnight parking allowed. HOA wins.
2. Local says no overnight parking allowed. HOA says overnight parking allowed. HOA loses.

Now the tricky part. #1. A non-owner parks overnight on the street. Nothing the HOA can do.






I would love to see some case law that supports your position.
PestY


Posts:0


08/03/2019 11:10 AM  
Posted By SamE2 on 08/03/2019 10:41 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:18 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:12 PM
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL




ADDITION

HOA docs cannot usurp local government. Examples

1. Local says overnight parking allowed. HOA says no overnight parking allowed. HOA wins.
2. Local says no overnight parking allowed. HOA says overnight parking allowed. HOA loses.

Now the tricky part. #1. A non-owner parks overnight on the street. Nothing the HOA can do.




I would love to see some case law that supports your position.




not case law exactly, but:

If you and I were to contract NOT to park on the public street in front of our homes, but to park inside our garage that CONTRACT a/k/a COVENANT would be enforceable.

An HOAS's covenants are interpreted the same way BUT said covenant does NOT apply to a non-member of the general public.

The HOA member is a 'sub-set' of the general public who have covenanted AMONG THEMSELVES.

Said restriction against parking on a public street becomes, in practice, unenforceable.


LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:837


08/03/2019 5:52 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:18 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:12 PM
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL




ADDITION

HOA docs cannot usurp local government. Examples

1. Local says overnight parking allowed. HOA says no overnight parking allowed. HOA wins.
2. Local says no overnight parking allowed. HOA says overnight parking allowed. HOA loses.

Now the tricky part. #1. A non-owner parks overnight on the street. Nothing the HOA can do.






#1 absolutely makes no sense.. how can an HOA override a local ordnance on the street where the HOA has no authority to enforce?
BobB31
(Florida)

Posts:136


08/04/2019 12:07 AM  
Posted By LetA on 08/03/2019 5:52 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:18 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:12 PM
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL




ADDITION

HOA docs cannot usurp local government. Examples

1. Local says overnight parking allowed. HOA says no overnight parking allowed. HOA wins.
2. Local says no overnight parking allowed. HOA says overnight parking allowed. HOA loses.

Now the tricky part. #1. A non-owner parks overnight on the street. Nothing the HOA can do.






#1 absolutely makes no sense.. how can an HOA override a local ordnance on the street where the HOA has no authority to enforce?


I had the same initial take but I think I get it now. The HOA "wins" because it can enforce its rules against its members. No authority over non-members, but complete authority over members.
PestY


Posts:0


08/04/2019 7:01 AM  
Posted By BobB31 on 08/04/2019 12:07 AM
Posted By LetA on 08/03/2019 5:52 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:18 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/02/2019 4:12 PM
Jeff

I disagree with the issue falls to the city to enforce. When one becomes a member of an HOA they sign an agreement to abide by the Covenants/Bylaws/Rules & Regulations of the Association which can be harsher than city rules.

Our local governmental laws allow overnight street parking. Our association signed by an owner do not allow such. We win......LOL




ADDITION

HOA docs cannot usurp local government. Examples

1. Local says overnight parking allowed. HOA says no overnight parking allowed. HOA wins.
2. Local says no overnight parking allowed. HOA says overnight parking allowed. HOA loses.

Now the tricky part. #1. A non-owner parks overnight on the street. Nothing the HOA can do.






#1 absolutely makes no sense.. how can an HOA override a local ordnance on the street where the HOA has no authority to enforce?


I had the same initial take but I think I get it now. The HOA "wins" because it can enforce its rules against its members. No authority over non-members, but complete authority over members.




PERFECT
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:245


08/04/2019 8:30 AM  
I agree in theory that the HOA does have the authority - on a civil level- to enforce its contract that homeowners should not park on the street. But let’s be pragmatic.

How will the HOA know what cars belong to who? Do they have the ability to run license plates? What if owners refuse to give their vehicle info? Who is going to monitor all the cars parked on the street to determine how long they have been parked there? Is the rule that they cannot ever be parked there - not even for five minutes? What about guests? Are owners allows to have guests parks on the street? How many and for how long? Who is going to monitor guest cars, how long they have been parked, and to whose house they belong?

No tow company is going to tow from a public street. So how are you going to enforce this rule? Does the association have the authority to fine? Will you file lawsuits against owners for parking in the street?

Is it the best use of association funds and volunteer time to patrol and monitor parking? Is this an actual problem in your community? Have you had a child struck by a car while running into the street from behind a parked car? Have you had an emergency vehicle unable to get down the street? Has the trash company been unable to collect trash?

PestY


Posts:0


08/04/2019 10:04 AM  
..... How will the HOA know what cars belong to who? Do they have the ability to run license plates? What if owners refuse to give their vehicle info? Who is going to monitor all the cars parked on the street to determine how long they have been parked there? Is the rule that they cannot ever be parked there - not even for five minutes? What about guests? Are owners allows to have guests parks on the street? How many and for how long? Who is going to monitor guest cars, how long they have been parked, and to whose house they belong?

No tow company is going to tow from a public street. So how are you going to enforce this rule? Does the association have the authority to fine? Will you file lawsuits against owners for parking in the street? .....



facepalm-emoticon


D'OH
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:195


08/04/2019 11:43 AM  
I understand the idea between the HOA and owner but would argue you have a contract with the state about where you can park your car on public land. The state may allow other governments to further restrict parking if they follow outlined procedures. I doubt the HOA is allowed to make parking rules and don't think the state rules were followed. I have a house in New Jersey and parked a boat trailer on the street. The city has an ordnance against parking boat trailers on the public streets. They towed my trailer and issued a ticket. I paid the towing and fought the ticket. The state of New Jersey requires any cities that pass parking laws to install signs. My city did not have any signs so I was found not guilty of the parking ticket and got my towing money returned. I can't see a judge allowing a HOA to restrict usage of property they don't own. I do think it would be an interesting case to review.
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