Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Tuesday, December 10, 2019
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Fence Fees After the Fact..Need Advice
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
SheriS1
(Tennessee)

Posts:21


07/21/2019 5:17 PM  
I am looking for advice.

I live in a PUD=Planned Urban Development in TN. We purchased in April 2018. Shortly after we moved in, we submitted to put a fence in according the fence policy. We were given the approval and once installed, it was approved and accepted. Also, several more neighbors also had fences installed using the same process. Now a year and half later, the board is saying they can access homeowners a fence fee under a section in our bylaws for this calendar year, “Planting, Gardening and Landscaping”, see below, for the additional time it takes the mowers to open our gate and mow. Nowhere under this section are fences listed. The “Fences” are only listed under in this section.

ARTICLE V ARCHITECTURAL CONTROL
Section 2. Plan Submission. Buildings, fences (no fences will be considered for approval other than those no greater than four (4) feet in height and made of black wrought iron or black painted aluminum), walls or other structures shall not be commenced, erected or maintained upon the Property, nor shall any exterior addition, modification, change or alteration therein be made until the plans and specifications showing the nature, kind, shape, height, materials, location of such building, fence, wall, other structure, and any landscaping, have been submitted to and approved in writing as to the harmony and conformity with the exterior design and location of surrounding structures and topography by the Board of Directors of the Association, or by an Architectural Control/Review Committee comprised of three (3) or more representatives appointed by the Board of Directors of the Association. In the event that the Board of Directors or its designated committee fails to approve or disapprove of such design and location within forty-five (45) days after said plans and specifications have been submitted to it, approval will not be required and this Article will be deemed to have been fully complied with by the respective Lot Owner. Section 3. Completion Review. Upon completion of buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and any associated landscaping. The same Committee or the Board of Directors of the Association shall have the power necessary to continue the enforcement of the common scheme, to make any necessary rule or take any step that the same Committee or the Board of Directors of the Association deem necessary to require maintenance, modification, repair or replacement of any buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and to manage or control landscaping to limit Association expense or to maintain the common scheme. Section 3. Completion Review. Upon completion of buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and any associated landscaping. The same Committee or the Board of Directors of the Association shall have the power necessary to continue the enforcement of the common scheme, to make any necessary rule or take any step that the same Committee or the Board of Directors of the Association deem necessary to require maintenance, modification, repair or replacement of any buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and to manage or control landscaping to limit Association expense or to maintain the common scheme.

Now, the Board says they can assess a fee to the people that have fences, when it is not discussed anywhere in our bylaws under the section they are listing see (j) below.

Planting, Gardening, and Landscaping. No planting or gardening shall be done in the front landscape mulch beds except such as are installed in accordance with the initial plan at the time of construction of the buildings located thereon. Uniform and well groomed look is to be maintained even in the face of allowed elements and the Board may require removal of otherwise allowed elements. This shall include eleven (11) shrubs in a uniform configuration. Replacement of shrubs which are dead or overgrown is permitted as long as the number, configuration, and growth habit of the replacements reflect the original design. This facilitates ease of maintenance and insures a uniform and well groomed look. One tree from the association's approved list is permitted in each front yard.
(a) Planting of invasive plants (such as bamboo and English Ivy) is prohibited. See the current list posted at www.TNEPPC.org .
(b) One American flag no larger than three (3) feet by five (5) feet may be displayed in front yards for patriotic holidays and events. Flags may be displayed on the left side of the garage (as you enter) door. A non-rusting pole insert (bracket) must be used.
(c) No planting of any kind is to be done between the buildings. This impedes access for meter readers and lawn contractors. A clear path between the buildings must also be maintained in case first responders or fire equipment should need to have access to the back of the buildings.
(d) No artificial flowers, in pots or the ground, or large decorative flags shall be used in the front yards.
(e) There shall be a limit of six (6) decorative elements allowed for front yards of each lot. All decorative elements shall be in the existing mulch bed or on the concrete surfaces-notin the mowed areas. Each single item (pot, light, etc) counts in the total limit of six (6). These six elements shall be chosen from the following list: 1.) Water hose storage (pot or rack), 2.) Flower pots (planted and well maintained), 3.) Seasonal door decor, 4.) Solar light, 5.) Mini flag, 6.) Bench 7.) Birdbath (16" across maximum) 8.) Statuary (no more than 18" high).
(f) All elements must be in good condition and be well maintained.
(g) Winter holiday season decorations will not be included in the six element limit for front yards.
(h) Winter holiday decorations shall be allowed beginning Thanksgiving weekend and should be removed no later than one week after New Year's Day. Holiday decorations should not be extreme, and must not impact immediate neighbors negatively. Other special occasions may be reflected in the six element choices in front yards.
(i) Planting and landscaping behind buildings in the back yard are to be within mulched islands or beds which can easily be mowed and trimmed around. Individual or single trees or plants shall not be planted where grass must be mowed in back yards. No planting in the back of buildings should infringe on a neighbor's property or in any way impose on the immediate neighbors. All planting and landscaping in the back (including hard scapes) must be maintained by the owner.
(j) An additional assessment may be charged if Owner’s excessive planting or landscaping increases the cost of the Association lawn contract or requires significant extra labor from the contractor.

Could I please get some opinions here?



AugustinD


Posts:2051


07/21/2019 5:57 PM  
Posted By SheriS1 on 07/21/2019 5:17 PM
(j) An additional assessment may be charged if Owner’s excessive planting or landscaping increases the cost of the Association lawn contract or requires significant extra labor from the contractor.


Why is it you think the above section precludes charging extra for the landscaper's extra time dealing with a fence? How much is the HOA trying to charge you?
SheriS1
(Tennessee)

Posts:21


07/21/2019 6:14 PM  
Up in the Architectural section, fencing and landscaping are referred to as separate issues. No where does it say Landscaping to include fencing, in the section garden, planting and landscaping or in the original fence guidelines. A few years ago, our community changed from a condo to a PUD, and since condo’s CC&R’s included exterior maintenance at $140 a month, the monthly assessment did not change. There are people with larger yards, hilly topography, added white fence panels (1 came with the units and people have added up to 5 more) and they are saying it is because the mowers can not just mow across straight paths, and are assessing $20.00 a month to the metal fence owners only. Then our bylaws also have assessment rules, and this additional fee can not be selected homeowners...the CC&R’s say all assessments will be for all lots..
AugustinD


Posts:2051


07/21/2019 6:30 PM  
I am curious: Who owns the land on which the fences are installed: The HOA, or the individual member who owns the fence?
SheriS1
(Tennessee)

Posts:21


07/21/2019 6:33 PM  
I own the land.
AugustinD


Posts:2051


07/21/2019 6:58 PM  
Posted By SheriS1 on 07/21/2019 6:14 PM
There are people with larger yards, hilly topography, added white fence panels (1 came with the units and people have added up to 5 more) and they are saying it is because the mowers can not just mow across straight paths, and are assessing $20.00 a month to the metal fence owners only. Then our bylaws also have assessment rules, and this additional fee can not be selected homeowners...the CC&R’s say all assessments will be for all lots..


Because it appears your covenants direct that the PUD (HOA) has the maintenance responsibility for the lawns, and because you say the governing documents do not permit individual members being assessed differently, it appears to me that you are correct. I imagine it will take a lot of letter writing and possibly the hiring of an attorney to get the board to see things your way. Your best bet may be to get together like-minded people see that they win a board majority at the next election.
SheriS1
(Tennessee)

Posts:21


07/21/2019 7:14 PM  
Section 7. Uniform Rate of Assessment. Both annual and special assessments must be fixed at the uniform rate for all Lots and may be collected on a monthly basis. Except that special assessments of a single Lot as provided herein shall be authorized and an obligation of that Lot Owner (example: damage to property by Owner assessment or attorney fee collection assessment).
SheriS1
(Tennessee)

Posts:21


07/21/2019 7:14 PM  
Section 7. Uniform Rate of Assessment. Both annual and special assessments must be fixed at the uniform rate for all Lots and may be collected on a monthly basis. Except that special assessments of a single Lot as provided herein shall be authorized and an obligation of that Lot Owner (example: damage to property by Owner assessment or attorney fee collection assessment).
AugustinD


Posts:2051


07/21/2019 7:29 PM  
Posted By SheriS1 on 07/21/2019 7:14 PM
Section 7. Uniform Rate of Assessment. Both annual and special assessments must be fixed at the uniform rate for all Lots and may be collected on a monthly basis. Except that special assessments of a single Lot as provided herein shall be authorized and an obligation of that Lot Owner (example: damage to property by Owner assessment or attorney fee collection assessment).


Easy come, easy go. The last sentence of the above combined with the following makes me think this is a "special assessment."

Posted By SheriS1 on 07/21/2019 5:17 PM
Section 3. Completion Review. Upon completion of buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and any associated landscaping. The same Committee or the Board of Directors of the Association shall have the power necessary to continue the enforcement of the common scheme, to make any necessary rule or take any step that the same Committee or the Board of Directors of the Association deem necessary to require maintenance, modification, repair or replacement of any buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and to manage or control landscaping to limit Association expense or to maintain the common scheme.


Part of your rebuttal is that other neighbors with problematic landscaping yada are not being assessed extra. But I think it's getting subjective. You can write the board and point this out, then see what they say. It's probably best to win election to the board with a like-minded majority.

This needs more eyes on it. Hopefully others will share their thoughts.


SheriS1
(Tennessee)

Posts:21


07/21/2019 7:54 PM  
Thank you. The Board President has gone Rogue! He is telling neighbors that he will assess..and when asked for a meeting he said we will have our annual in November. I have tried to inform them that their limit of power is with the common expenses of our community and our bylaws state that anything over 2,000 needs a vote when spending out of the reserves. He has allowed the Landscape board member to spend $60k in 2 years on landscaping, without the homeowners vote. The board says they don’t need our vote. We have to vote on Capitol improvements and I have told them that it is one thing to replace, but it another to add to landscaping in the tune of $22k in June. This does not include our lawn maintenance. The President put gutter cleaning on the budget because he doesn’t want to clean his gutters.. for the total of $3k. A majority of the homes/PUD do not have trees. Mostly near the presidents home.
AugustinD


Posts:2051


07/21/2019 8:08 PM  
Posted By SheriS1 on 07/21/2019 7:54 PM
The President put gutter cleaning on the budget because he doesn’t want to clean his gutters.. for the total of $3k. A majority of the homes/PUD do not have trees. Mostly near the presidents home.


The above got my attention. Are gutters listed in the governing documents as a HOA maintenance responsibility? If not, hopefully your neighbors and you can get this guy off the board.
SheriS1
(Tennessee)

Posts:21


07/21/2019 8:15 PM  
They are not listed..😳
AugustinD


Posts:2051


07/21/2019 8:34 PM  
Posted By SheriS1 on 07/21/2019 8:15 PM
They are not listed..😳


In the course of regular maintenance, a HOA should never touch property that is not its responsibility to maintain, as listed in the governing documents. I think your HOA's president is a walking lawsuit. Now the question is whether your HOA's membership will have the good sense to remove him and put a competent volunteer in his place.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Fence Fees After the Fact..Need Advice



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement