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Subject: Millennial Nextdoor Neighbor Joins Board - Hell Happens
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JeffM21
(Florida)

Posts:2


07/17/2019 4:21 PM  
I am in a townhome community. Longest living resident here at 12 years. 25 year old girl, drinker, smoker, loud music on the porch courthouse working girl moves next door. A fellow neighbor invited us over for pizza a year ago, ends at 2am, she texts me over and over after it was over to come over to her place. I decline. She gets angry and I block her. I am a 35 year old looking 53 year old single male no kids. I live a mature responsible life. Had to get co text out of the way.

She joined the board. I get a Christmas card on my door with trash in it (plastic for a childs toy). I don’t have children or know any. Her writing in the card says, “keep your trash off my property”. I take the card and drop it 2 feet away on her door mat taking offense at the act. Neighbor days later installs a Ring doorbell (an audio and video recording device) on the exterior wall (against gov docs). I arrive home and she immediately communicates through it as I am opening my door “I can see you, everything you do and I am watching you”. Unprovoked. Device is angled towards my door, not forward facing. I call the police. I provide the statutes about audio recording devices, statutes of trash dumping and they refuse to even talk to her. They did not care or agree with the statute. The next day, walking my dog, she comes out of the home with video phone rolling screaming at the top of her lungs to illegibility. Then walks inside and slams the door. Cops come back. They advise restraining order. I file temporary restraining order, she counters with attorney. Goes to court, judge willing to do a no co tact. Her attorney objects and he does nothing but dismiss.

I get warning letters to cease and desist for calling cops and harassing neighbor. I provide a thorough explanation of events, they reiterate their position. From the HOA that is.

Neighbor sets up 4 more cameras. 3 in the front in my home and parking space and 2 in the back porch and her bedroom facing into my back porch and yard. 2 cameras face into my home. I file temporary restraining order, she counters. Court refuses to entertain either.

Continuing, get a $1000 violation letter for parking onto the white line (rear tire about 5 mm) for parking into her parking space and disrupting her parking. I respond with the obvious that it was a rear tire, 5 mm, and a one time shot. Not in her space, or impeding anything. Next, I get a response saying I am parking too close to the white line that is closest to her spot (we have adjascent). I respond that I am parking within my spot, not touching the line and I am parking close to the line, but not touching or going on or over the line to avoid her three cameras pointing directly at me, my property and my space - and they are an illegal device and violation of the gov docs).

They respond again stating that me adjusting my car in and out of the space to position the car is an attempt be a nuisance to her (she’s not even home when I am) and issue a $1000 fine. But wait, there is more......

I receive another violation for not ever being approved by the borard as a renter. I explained I do not rent but live here with the owner (who got married recently and moved out). I respond I have lived here longer than any resident, given yearly passes, spoken at board meetings, on the registry for 12 years. Nothing in the gov docs addresses non owners except renters. They issue a $1000 fine to me. I rectify the matter with the owner by the owner setting up a legal living trust and I become the trustee of the property and legal owner. The board says, not approved and the fine stands.

Lastly, they never followed up or through on legitimate violations committed by the neighbor that are covered in the docs. I have amassed 3,000 images since this began of vehicles parked over the line grossly and habitually. They have not responded to any concerns or requests in the gov docs for matters and hearings, they are sending Max fee letters for violations that do not exist. Fees are to begin at $100, and ultimately max to $1000. In Florida, it takes a $2000 to get a lien.

This 25 year old must have have magical feminine powers because this is what she has successfully created.

I have no idea how to get this to stop without a $500 hour attorney to the tube of $50,000 and higher. This 25 year old is accomplishing what she set out to do. Since 2007 I live here, keep to myself, don’t engage, work from home, I have a puppy and mind my own business.

Last I heard is “fines stand” in an e-mail. How do I resolve these matters and issues. The board isn’t concerned about gov docs, procedures, hearings... yet...they are instituting fines and attempting to get a lien by virtue of the $2000 threshold. She has managed, the neighbor, to create this. Now, I’m on my heels and I literally have not violated anything, she has, they have, and when I follow procedure in requesting hearings, etc....nothing.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


07/17/2019 4:58 PM  
Well are fines legally allowed to be assessed? Plus you were NOT an owner at time of the fine were you? So that had to go to the legal owner/member of the HOA. They would be responsible for paying the fine. If they decide to make you responsible for paying them back, that is between you and that owner.

You are now a HOA member? Can you run for a board position? Not asking for trouble here. Just not to be pushed around by keeping your head down and out of her way. That's the way she likes it. Why do what she likes?

Time to decide to move out or just go about your life. Keep calling the police when she does something illegal. However, do NOT confuse that with the police being able to enforce HOA rules. They don't. That is up to the HOA.

BTW: Fines can't be used for liens/foreclosures in most states unless they do some kind of fancy book keeping. I don't advertise that. Just wouldn't be fretting so much over fines till you find out what exact powers they have for enforcing them.

Former HOA President
TimM11


Posts:287


07/18/2019 6:04 AM  
What does her age (or gender) have to do with anything?

I had just turned 27 when I first joined the BOD in my HOA. I certainly didn't do stuff like this.

MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:371


07/18/2019 6:37 AM  
Jeff,
Typically when you read a long post like this I assume some exaggeration is taking place. If half of what you are saying is true it would be far too much for anyone to put up with. What makes the place you are living in worth the hassle? Sounds like the whole world is against you. I would recommend you find a new place to live.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2621


07/18/2019 7:03 AM  
You may not be a renter in the traditional sense, but you don’t own the house either (at least it wasn't clear as to whether you brought the unit from your friend). If you're not the owner, have you told your friend about any of this? He or she should be intervening with the board on your behalf – as an HOA member, the board is more apt to pay attention to what he or she has to say (at least in theory).

Might there be other neighbors who know this lady better than you do? If so, perhaps they would be willing to talk to her or referee a meeting between you two so you can get your differences ironed out once and for all.
I don’t know why I’m getting the sense that there’s a LOT more to your relationship with this woman, but I will take you at your word. Therefore… her behavior does look like that of a stalker, so if so if you didn’t get the no contact order the first time, take your information showing what’s happened since then and try again.

Your final option is to move. I realize this has been your home for some time and it isn’t fair that some idiot is making things difficult for no apparent reason, but if you’ve done everything and it hasn’t worked, sometimes it’s best to move on.

AugustinD


Posts:1886


07/18/2019 8:22 AM  
Jeff, please get a copy of the governing documents, skim them, and identify whether they say your subdivision is a condominium (Florida statutes Chapter 718), homeowners' association (Florida statutes 720), or cooperative (Florida statutes 719). If you can attach a copy of, or link to, the condo's/HOA's/Cooperative's Declaration, then this would be helpful. You have a lousy neighbor and I think probably an inept board. The police and court responses are not entirely surprising. Some specific thoughts follow.

Posted By JeffM21 on 07/17/2019 4:21 PM
I am in a townhome community. Longest living resident here at 12 years.
But not an owner for most or all of this 12 years. Plus it's not legally relevant.

I get a Christmas card on my door with trash in it (plastic for a childs toy). I don’t have children or know any. Her writing in the card says, “keep your trash off my property”. I take the card and drop it 2 feet away on her door mat taking offense at the act.
In the future, stay off her property. When she puts anything on your property, photograph it, log it and then discard it. Or if you think it might be evidence, put it in a bag and put a card in the bag with the date and time received.

Neighbor days later installs a Ring doorbell (an audio and video recording device) on the exterior wall (against gov docs).
Please quote verbatim the section of the governing docs that addresses this.

I get warning letters to cease and desist for calling cops and harassing neighbor. I provide a thorough explanation of events, they reiterate their position. From the HOA that is.
Did the HOA attorney send these letters? Save them, of course. The HOA is way out of line for telling you not to call the police.

get a $1000 violation letter for parking onto the white line (rear tire about 5 mm) for parking into her parking space and disrupting her parking.
Please quote verbatim what the governing documents say about (a) parking and (b) fines.

[...] not touching or going on or over the line to avoid her three cameras pointing directly at me, my property and my space - and they are an illegal device and violation of the gov docs).
Please quote verbatim what the governing docs say about these cameras being prohibited.

They respond again stating that me adjusting my car in and out of the space to position the car is an attempt be a nuisance to her (she’s not even home when I am) and issue a $1000 fine.
Please quote verbatim what the governing docs say about fines for nuisances.

I receive another violation for not ever being approved by the board as a renter. I explained I do not rent but live here with the owner (who got married recently and moved out).
This is way too close to being a renter to be quibbling about being, say, a platonic roommate. I would not complain about the HOA's position on this.

I respond I have lived here longer than any resident, given yearly passes, spoken at board meetings, on the registry for 12 years.
I think this has no legal relevance.

Nothing in the gov docs addresses non owners except renters. They issue a $1000 fine to me.
Please quote verbatim what the gov docs say about non-owners inhabiting HOA homes and the fines for same. If this board is making up fines as they go, it is way out of line.

I rectify the matter with the owner by the owner setting up a legal living trust and I become the trustee of the property and legal owner.
I have doubts a "legal living trust" would qualify you as the owner. My understanding is that, if your name is not on the deed, then you are not an owner.

Lastly, they never followed up or through on legitimate violations committed by the neighbor that are covered in the docs. I have amassed 3,000 images since this began of vehicles parked over the line grossly and habitually. They have not responded to any concerns or requests in the gov docs for matters and hearings, they are sending Max fee letters for violations that do not exist. Fees are to begin at $100, and ultimately max to $1000. In Florida, it takes a $2000 to get a lien.
For now: Put your evidence in a notebook. Date all photos. Keep a journal.

they are instituting fines and attempting to get a lien by virtue of the $2000 threshold. Now, I’m on my heels and I literally have not violated anything,
To me, you have violated some things. But I think the HOA may have seriously overreached.

Like the others here posted, I think you are in for a long battle. Many of us leave bad HOAs. Their being run by amateurs is a huge problem that even statutes and ombudsman do not seem to address well.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3296


07/18/2019 10:35 AM  
If they fined you personally and you're not an owner, you simply dont pay it.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3123


07/18/2019 2:52 PM  
Posted By SteveM9 on 07/18/2019 10:35 AM
If they fined you personally and you're not an owner, you simply dont pay it.

Depends on the governing documents. Some explicitly allow for fining tenants where such tenants sign a lease that explicitly acknowledges that tenants may be fined. Ultimately, the landlord homeowner will be responsible, so fining tenants is often not done simply because it leads to another layer of red tape, i.e. the homeowner would only be fined if the tenant was fined first and refused to pay. Regardless of fines, putting a lien on the property is no skin off the tenant's nose. That circus (fine tenant -> tenant doesn't pay -> fine homeowner) could possibly add months onto the length of time it takes to cure a violation.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:736


07/19/2019 12:25 AM  
Something tells me you two had a relationship or a one night stand and she is going full Fatal Attraction on you. Honestly either way, you need to bite the bullet and hire an attorney. You are going to need C&D & Restraining orders filed, and a whole other heap of legal maneuvering.
MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:469


07/19/2019 9:16 PM  
Posted By LetA on 07/19/2019 12:25 AM
Something tells me you two had a relationship or a one night stand and she is going full Fatal Attraction on you. Honestly either way, you need to bite the bullet and hire an attorney. You are going to need C&D & Restraining orders filed, and a whole other heap of legal maneuvering.




The OP comes off so innocent, yet throws outdated terms out there like "girl" you gotta assume that he has some guilt too.
PestY
(South Carolina)

Posts:67


07/20/2019 4:40 AM  
Posted By MarkM31 on 07/19/2019 9:16 PM
Posted By LetA on 07/19/2019 12:25 AM
Something tells me you two had a relationship or a one night stand and she is going full Fatal Attraction on you. Honestly either way, you need to bite the bullet and hire an attorney. You are going to need C&D & Restraining orders filed, and a whole other heap of legal maneuvering.




The OP comes off so innocent, yet throws outdated terms out there like "girl" you gotta assume that he has some guilt too.





"..... courthouse working girl ....." to be precise


MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:469


07/20/2019 6:26 AM  
Posted By JeffM21 on 07/17/2019 4:21 PM
A fellow neighbor invited us over for pizza a year ago, ends at 2am, she texts me over and over after it was over to come over to her place. I decline. She gets angry and I block her. I am a 35 year old looking 53 year old single male no kids. I live a mature responsible life. Had to get co text out of the way.


Lastly, they never followed up or through on legitimate violations committed by the neighbor that are covered in the docs. I have amassed 3,000 images since this began of vehicles parked over the line grossly and habitually.




I think they deserve each other
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


07/20/2019 6:39 AM  
I think the OP isn't exactly an owner in this HOA. So not sure what kind of real standing he has. I'd basically would skip the whole HOA role in his conflict as the police can't enforce any of that. He needs to keep it real and call the police or a lawyer to deal with the situation.

It's hard to tell if this is criminal or not. Ironic enough. We just had a similar case in the news. This dealt with a Realtor who was harassing a tenant about parking their car. He did similar things to the other tenant with cameras, signs, and tried to have a visitor arrested for wearing shorts! He's now been arrested for harassment. Not good for him...

Former HOA President
ArtL1
(Florida)

Posts:140


07/20/2019 8:29 AM  
1) Learn to speak type clearly.
2) Is your association an HOA or Condo Association...i.e. are you governed by FS 720 or FS 718? Either way, read the statutes (720.305 or 718.303). Either you're not accurately relaying what's going on, or your association is violating the law. i.e. They can't fine you $1000 for a one-time violation. The legal limit is $100 per violation per day.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3123


07/21/2019 7:19 PM  
Posted By ArtL1 on 07/20/2019 8:29 AM
They can't fine you $1000 for a one-time violation. The legal limit is $100 per violation per day.

Read the entire sentence. It ends with, "... unless otherwise provided in the governing documents."
JeffM21
(Florida)

Posts:2


08/04/2019 2:12 PM  
Most of the responses here are ignorant, uneducated, without substance or merit. Now I understand why my attorney said he left this site. I found the information I need through statutes, code, and settled law.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/04/2019 2:34 PM  
No. Actually your lawyer needs "case laws" and statutes etc... We are just here to give FREE advice by our experiences. Yours may differ. No one is a lawyer here or if they were, they aren't your lawyer.

Former HOA President
MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:371


08/04/2019 2:42 PM  
JeffM21,
I get a kick out of your comments. You and your attorney are so much smarter than everyone on this site. That is why you both came here looking for advice. Sounds to me like you guys are the dumb ones. I can't remember anyone of these replies saying that we are the smartest people in the HOA planet. What we did give you is our honest opinion. The fact that you have discounted everyone's opinion but yours tells all anyone will ever need to know about you and the attorney you are paying to much money.

I hope you have fun writing the check to so called attorney who I guess went to law School but goes to a free site to get validation on legal issues.
PaulJ6
(New York)

Posts:184


08/04/2019 4:19 PM  
Posted By JeffM21 on 08/04/2019 2:12 PM
Most of the responses here are ignorant, uneducated, without substance or merit. Now I understand why my attorney said he left this site. I found the information I need through statutes, code, and settled law.




If your lawyer is a HOA lawyer, why would he need to use this site for professional reasons? I am a lawyer and an owner in a HOA; I am not a HOA lawyer and don’t use online message boards in my practice at all.

What is the purpose of disparaging contributors to this board?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


08/04/2019 6:53 PM  
It was probably that other lawyer from New York who was posting here for a bit. He was quite the "Ambulance chaser" type. Giving really bad advice which should have had them disbarred if you ask me.

Former HOA President
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3763


08/04/2019 7:12 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/04/2019 6:53 PM
It was probably that other lawyer from New York who was posting here for a bit. He was quite the "Ambulance chaser" type. Giving really bad advice which should have had them disbarred if you ask me.



And you don't give bad advice? Please!!!!!

Been there, Done that
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3123


08/04/2019 9:42 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/04/2019 6:53 PM
It was probably that other lawyer from New York who was posting here for a bit. He was quite the "Ambulance chaser" type. Giving really bad advice which should have had them disbarred if you ask me.

Roll tide.
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