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RebeccaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 43
Posted:
Alright, this election stuff is starting to get really contentious. I manage a 112 Unit Florida HOA. The Board is still divided. One side has been putting it out to the membership that Directors in the opposing camp have incurred attorney's fees for the Association without majority Board approval. Now a couple of owners are requesting a transaction detail report of all legal fees incurred in 2007, with attached copies of invoices. This same group of owners has recently requested a barrage of other financials documents, which I have already taken care of. I don't have a problem with any of their requests. Most is stuff that I believe should be published regularly anyway.
My question is, when it comes to owner requests for records pertaining to legal action of the Association, are the actual invoices considered priviledged, because of information they may contain? This Board has not been forthcoming with the membership about its activities with their attorney and I know where this is going. I understand that pending litigation may be priviledged, but once it is over, at what point should owners be given access to the records? The invoices themselves don't detail the action, but they do at times, name litigants and things of that nature.

What do you all think? I tend to always lean toward the rights of the homeowners and their access to records, but I also want to make sure that everything I do is proper.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I think I would make a call to the attorney who produced them and get his professional legal opinion on the matter.

Almost every document we get, including email, from our attorney has a sort of disclaimer regarding privilege of information. He should be the best person to determine who has access to that "privilege."
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
RebeccaM1 - In addition to the Association attorney, don't you have one of your own that represents your interests as the Property Manager? Permitting access to review records of items that are not pending litigation is one thing, copying these records can get expensive however so a reasonable cost of duplication is customary.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
RebeccaM1: Is this recap correct?
1. 'Some Directors' have incurred attorney fees w/o Board approval.
2. Owners are requesting a detailed report of legal fees 2007 w/inv. copies.
3. Board not forthcoming w/records of legal action taken.
4. Poster (Rebecca) is Property Mgr.

To shed more light on this situation, why did "some Directors" go outside what the Exec. Board voted (not to go to the attorney)? And do they expect the attorney fee to be funded when they have acted on their own?
If you provide further details, we can offer better advice.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Rebecca, as the manager you can be held liable for your actions. Therefore, you need to know that whatever you do is "proper". For starters, I would never provide any legal information without approval of the Board. But to clarify, the total cost of the line item "legal" is not considered legal information but rather financial information. Members should have access to most of the records - except Legal and personnel matters.
RebeccaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 43
Posted:
Joe: Point taken. We aren't talking very much copying to be honest, and that homeowner is fine with a reasonable cost for such.

Paul: Your recap is correct. The Board President contacted the Attorney, first, for an opinion concerning a dispute amongst the Board regarding minutes (how they are approved, published, what they should say etc), after they approached me and she disagreed with how I had advised them. She later contacted the Attorney to inquire about Proxies voting. The rest of the Board and I only found out about that one when the bill came. She contacted the Attorney a third time to have them write a demand letter to an owner that wasn't paying the 10% service fee to the Association for a guest she claimed they were renting to.
The rest of the Board has done nothing about any of it until now, a month before the election. The two members of the Board that want the President out have apparently made some owners aware of the legal bills and hence, the document requests.

Roger: I understand what you are saying about the financial part of it. Certainly, they are entitled to know about every penny spent. It is my job to provide that information should they request it. The fact that I know why and how they plan to use it is of no consequence to me. As they say, "I don't have a dog in that fight". I just want to make sure I don't do anything wrong regarding the law and 720. I fully intend to provide a transaction detail form Quickbooks for legal expenses and a description for what each item is. I am just wary of providing the actual invoices, as there is still pending litigation that I feel needs to be sealed until it is over.

I am trying very hard not to do anything to affect this election in any way. I don't want to be used by one side or the other. As is only natural, I of course have personal opinions about how this Association has been/ is being run. In the end though, it is my strong respect for the democratic process that drew me to this industry in the first place and I am determined to let the owners do what they will regarding the governing of their community.

Geesh, there is really not enough space here for me to tell you all how deep this community's problems go. I just need a very simple by the book way to handle this request. I think I have gotten that from you all. I will provide the figures the owner is looking for and a generic description for each. I will advise the owner to request further information from the Board. The only problem with that will be that the Board President refuses to hold any more meetings until the election.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I feel your pain Rebecca, but you may need to turn over the invoices to the BOD members requesting them. Overall, the attorney does represent the BOD and the entire HOA membership. They should know what is going on with their money and votes.

Here's the "Dead horse statement": When you sue your HOA, your suing yourself and your neighbors. In this case, it takes a different meaning or twist. If the invoices pertain to a court appearance issue, then and of the BOD members should have a right to see the invoices from the attorney since they hired the attorney. They now fall under attorney-client privilege. However, the suing party is also a member of the HOA. The HOA's also represents them as a "whole". So the members are allowed to know what actions their HOA is taking in representing them legally on their behalf unless the judge rules otherwise.

Here's the thing. There is such a thing called "Disclosure" when things go to court in cases. That is where BOTH sides are given evidence to review from both sides so they can mount a proper defense or prosecute. The issues will come out in court. You can't really hide anything there and drop "bombshells". Plus after the case is settled, it becomes public knowledge unless the judge orders the case be kept confidential. Your not doing any sides any good or bad by keeping the information away from eachother. It's got to come out sooner or later.

I did attempt to sue my HOA once for an illegal assessment. I was an elected board member at the time! It was quite ironic for me to vote to hire an attorney to represent the BOD/HOA against ME! So I had access to BOTH sides of the litigation. Heck, I even was the one that called the HOA's attorney to warn him I was going to sue and that he would be contacted soon by my lawyer. That was a funny conversation to have with your lawyer!

Former HOA President
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
I went 'round and 'round with our board and management agent when I requested to review the invoices from the board's attorney. After much debate I was finally provided heavily redacted invoices (all mention of subjects discussed in phone calls or meetings and all names were blacked out). This did provide the information I needed to compare actual legal fees to the budget and to the monthly financial reports. It was an acceptable compromise.

Dave
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I say good for Dave and good for Rebecca.

Dave; for sticking with it and moving what can be an immoveable object.

Rebecca: From this side of your posts, there is little to disagree with, you will do what your intelligence dictates, at the time you have to make the decision. Your head is on straight and I think you are capable of working through a delicate situation. If I would give advice to you, it would be, at this point; You are in this for the long haul, next year at this time a new set of problems will be in front of you. You apparently want to make changes for your community, this is not do or die, it is more be cautious that you don't do anything that will disrupt your plans for the future. Time will be on your side to right the wrongs.
Good luck
Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
I agree with Roger and others on this post. I also want to note that in David's case above, the redacted invoices were appropriate, if and only if, they contained descriptions of services which identified parties (owner with lien, foreclosure) or something that is "personnel" or legal related (pending lawsuits, actions taking of a sensitive nature).

Although it was not mentioned/addressed, I would also expect the President to have some lateral access to the HOA attorney in an advisory role, which would not require the full board's approvals. I would also expect that upon doing so, that the President forward the matter to the full board for their information.
RebeccaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 43
Posted:
I think in this particular instance, the redacting could be the way to go. I want to provide everything the homeowner is entitled to see, but protect the Association where pending issues are concerned. We aren't talking a lot of information here. The majority of the issues are already resolved and, as such, I feel they are open to be inspected. My only issue of concern is particular owners privacy concerning lien info and pending litigation. I know what this owner is looking for and I should be able to provide that without compromising ongoing efforts. I believe the requesting homeowner will be quite reasonable about it in fact. It is my Board that is being naughty.

Thank you all for the help.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
RebeccaM1: IMO, your sensitivity to this issue is important and the Board should see it as such. You are, after all, contracted by the Board; however, you do not want to jeopardize your integrity or professionalism by revealing documents or info from them which should be kept confidential. If the Board wants to override your caution and counsel, then that's on them.
You must maintain your credibility.
RebeccaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 43
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulM on 09/11/2007 9:47 AM
RebeccaM1: IMO, your sensitivity to this issue is important and the Board should see it as such. You are, after all, contracted by the Board; however, you do not want to jeopardize your integrity or professionalism by revealing documents or info from them which should be kept confidential. If the Board wants to override your caution and counsel, then that's on them.
You must maintain your credibility.

I understand. You all have provide similar arguments for me before. I can not control what the Board says and does. I can only advise them as to what is statutorily proper and the rest, as you say, is on them. I want only to "CYA" at this point. Going on as they are, this Board could potentially get sued, again. I don't want anything I do held to be improper.

Robert: You hit the nail right on the head, but I am afraid it is probably too late for me in this community. Two on the Board want me out. The other two are willing to let those two get rid of me, to exploit it afterward. The remaining member is too far removed, both figuratively and literally, from the situation to have any opinion at all. At this point, I am just trying to keep everything as clean as possible and then wait and see after the meeting. It is definately not "do or die". This community has so much potential, but I may not be the manager to help them realize it.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Rebecca,
Tough spot for you to be in and it may just be that this Board don't deserve you. For a manager to even consider the potential of the community speaks volumes. I am still a believer in some folks having enough sense to see the forest in spite of the trees. The longer I mess with what goes on in HOA and Condo's, the more I am convinced that the whole self management system needs an overhaul, starting at the top of the State level. Both entities (Condos and HOA) seem to spend considerable time fixing what is wrong internally, and many don't have the tools or drive to try to sort things out, and when the poor soul wants to contribute, they find such a self induced mish-mash in their governance, they quickly back off. Good luck to you!

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