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Subject: Commercial Vehicles and Emergency Vehicles
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ChristinaB2
(California)

Posts:15


05/11/2019 7:41 AM  
Regarding Commercial vehicles and California Law:

We have had issues with what is considered commercial vehicles in our community the Rules and Regulations clearly state in the eyes of vehicles. Most homeowners do not have any issues with a truck that has a rack or a box in the back, but there are one or two that do.

One of the homeowners has been cited for a commercial vehicle, however a letter from their attorney states that since the Rules are ambiguous and this is not included then they are ok.

One of my concerns are that the board has ben directed from legal to change the rules to include this vehicle, mind you we have been in numerios meetings with this homeowner. I do not think it is a good idea to change the rules mid steam. Legal has also stated that the variances that were previously given to Emergency vehicles once expired should not be renewed. It is my understanding that AB 1760 (FRAZIER). PARKING: EMERGENCY VEHICLES.
This bill would add Civil Code Section 4721 to make a prohibition or restriction in the governing documents void and unenforceable as it relates to the parking of an emergency vehicle owned or under the control of a member.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB1760

Is there any reason why the board can not allow these types of vehicles and only disallow the ones cited below in the rules?
It is my opinion that if the Board makes this change they will be setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

PREFECT: The Board has already given a variance for Campers and Toy Haulers TO BE PARKED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR A 7 DAY PERIOD

RULES AND REGULATIONS:
Parking, Vehicular Restrictions, and Garages Pursuant to Article 8, Section 2.5 of the CC&R’s, the following criteria applies to parking and vehicular restrictions:
a) Prohibited Vehicles: None of the following shall be parked, stored or kept within Briarwood: any large commercial type vehicle, including but not limited to, any dump truck, cement mixer truck, oil or gas truck or delivery truck, any recreational vehicles, including, but not limited to, any camper unit, house/car, motor home or off-road vehicle; any bus, trailer coach, camp trailer, boat, aircraft, mobile home; any inoperable vehicle or any other similar vehicle; or any vehicular equipment, mobile or otherwise, constituting a nuisance. No prohibited vehicle shall be parked, stored or kept on any Home Site except either; (a) wholly within an enclosed garage, and then only if the garage door is capable of being fully closed; or (b) in the case of a motor home or similar recreational vehicle of reasonable and customary size, in the side or rear yard of a Home Site only and out of view from any street or other Home Site behind a privacy screen (comprised of fencing, walls, landscaping or a combination thereof) approved by the Architectural Committee. Prohibited vehicles shall not be allowed in any driveway or other exposed parking areas or street, except for the purposes of loading, unloading, making deliveries or emergency repairs, provided that no Transitory Use shall extend over more than twenty-four (24) hours during any seven (7) consecutive days.
b) Garages: Garages shall be used for the purpose of parking the number of vehicles permitted, if and when an Owner has fewer vehicles than the garage will accommodate, the extra space in the garage may be used for temporary uses that would not prevent the garage space from later being used for parking of a vehicle. Street parking shall be permitted for guest parking or for the Owner or resident of a Home Site as long as the vehicle is not a Prohibited Vehicle; provided, all other vehicles of the guest, Owner or resident of a Home Site are first parked or stored in the garage and then the driveway.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/11/2019 9:37 AM  
What kind of truck are we talking about?

Been there, Done that
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/11/2019 9:45 AM  
I can see how neighbors playing loud music or loud yelling or wild parties can be considered a nuisance, but how does a vehicle become a nuisance?

I would want an 18 wheeler in my neighborhood, but our economy has changed over the past 40 years or so and more and more people have become independent plumbers and electricians, who do what they do to pay the mortgage, put food on the table and pay their HOA dues.

Been there, Done that
RoyalP


Posts:0


05/11/2019 2:11 PM  


..... the Rules and Regulations clearly state in the eyes of vehicles. .....

..... I would want an 18 wheeler in my neighborhood, .....




Jabberwocky



let the INTERPRETATION(s) begin


i think i could guess what was actually meant, but, i must rely on what was actually stated
ChristinaB2
(California)

Posts:15


05/11/2019 3:55 PM  
The vehicle is a Chevy Silverado HD Work truck Like attached, it has no markings or logos just plain.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8408


05/11/2019 3:58 PM  
And the problem with it is? Is it an eyesore? Blocking traffic? Just because it's a "commercial" truck?


Former HOA President
ChristinaB2
(California)

Posts:15


05/11/2019 5:28 PM  
Melissa, it is just because they think it is considered a commercial vehicle, but they have also considered a dually truck a commercial vehicle.

Is it wise to change the rules when the board is currently in lawyer notices with the residents. The vehicle is not an eyesore nor is is blocking traffic, the owner typically Parkes it in the driveway so it is not on the street.
RoyalP


Posts:0


05/12/2019 6:57 AM  
? How about a bright yellow hum-v registered as a passenger vehicle ?

0

IMO: unless you can demonstrate a use for commerce it is NOT a commercial vehicle

company signage would be prima facie evidence
AugustinD


Posts:1886


05/12/2019 8:25 AM  
Posted By ChristinaB2 on 05/11/2019 3:55 PM
The vehicle is a Chevy Silverado HD Work truck Like attached, it has no markings or logos just plain.


Where I live has one of those monsters in the parking lot pretty regularly. I think it might be worth your while to read the following California Supreme Court opinion,
Bernardo Villas Management Corp. v. Black (1987), https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/190/153.html . Richard may have had the latter in mind when he posted.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/12/2019 9:48 AM  
Christina,

What do you consider vehicles that should not be allowed to park in your community based on YOUR understanding of the rules.

Been there, Done that
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8556


05/12/2019 10:51 AM  
Every few months we go round and round on what is a commercial vehicle and we never arrive at a one size fits all answer and we never will.

My last association was more into signage and rigging than actual vehicle style. A Ford F450 (6 wheels) with no signage nor equipment rigging was not considered a commercial vehicle. An Austin Mini with a sign on it was considered a commercial vehicle.

We had two identical mini-vans. One had a sign saying Airport Shuttle and the other had no signage. We ruled the Airport Shuttle was a commercial vehicle.

Basically a commercial vehicle is what an association says it is until their decision is legally challenged.

RoyalP


Posts:0


05/12/2019 6:10 PM  
from 'my' CCRs:

ARTICLE VII
USE RESTRICTIONS
Section 1. Land Use. All Lots shall be used for residential purposes only. No Lot may be
subdivided or its boundaries changed where the result would be a decrease in th,~size of any Lot,
without the written approval of the Board of Directors.
Section 2. Parking.
(a) All Lots have parking spaces for a minimum of two (2) vehicles. Parking of any
vehicles on lawns, by residents or guests, is prohibited.
(b) No commercial vehicles*, campers, trucks and vans over 3/4 ton capacity, recreational vehicles,
trailers, boats, tractors, motorcycles, motor scooters (other than electric wheelchairs)
or ATV's may be parked or kept overnight where they are visible (covered or
uncovered) on any residential Lot
;
(c) Temporary parking is available at the Clubhouse parking lot and long-term parking is
available in the RV Storage Area for the vehicles described above. Parking in these
areas is at your own risk. Owners of vehicles parked in the RV area are required to
identify such vehicles on a form provided by the Board of Directors for the purpose of
insurance protection.
* A commercial vehicle is any vehicle outfitted with utility/tool boxes, equipment
racks/devices, as well as stake bodieslbeds used for the storage/transport of
machinery/equipment/supplies
.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/12/2019 6:58 PM  
Posted By RoyalP on 05/12/2019 6:10 PM
from 'my' CCRs:

ARTICLE VII
USE RESTRICTIONS
Section 1. Land Use. All Lots shall be used for residential purposes only. No Lot may be
subdivided or its boundaries changed where the result would be a decrease in th,~size of any Lot,
without the written approval of the Board of Directors.
Section 2. Parking.
(a) All Lots have parking spaces for a minimum of two (2) vehicles. Parking of any
vehicles on lawns, by residents or guests, is prohibited.
(b) No commercial vehicles*, campers, trucks and vans over 3/4 ton capacity, recreational vehicles,
trailers, boats, tractors, motorcycles, motor scooters (other than electric wheelchairs)
or ATV's may be parked or kept overnight where they are visible (covered or
uncovered) on any residential Lot
;
(c) Temporary parking is available at the Clubhouse parking lot and long-term parking is
available in the RV Storage Area for the vehicles described above. Parking in these
areas is at your own risk. Owners of vehicles parked in the RV area are required to
identify such vehicles on a form provided by the Board of Directors for the purpose of
insurance protection.
* A commercial vehicle is any vehicle outfitted with utility/tool boxes, equipment
racks/devices, as well as stake bodieslbeds used for the storage/transport of
machinery/equipment/supplies
.



Probably wouldn't stand up in court if challenged.

Been there, Done that
JillS8
(California)

Posts:84


05/12/2019 7:03 PM  
In California a pickup truck is registered as a commercial vehicle.. Look it up. We have been going back and forth on this for 15 years. In our CC&Rs it refers to the California Vehcle Code. The Code defines pickups as commercial vehicles. Look at your registration for any pickup truck it will say commercial right on the registration. You are able to add a camper shell and re register as passenger vehicle in California. Also is much cheaper to register.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/12/2019 7:15 PM  
Posted By JillS8 on 05/12/2019 7:03 PM
In California a pickup truck is registered as a commercial vehicle.. Look it up. We have been going back and forth on this for 15 years. In our CC&Rs it refers to the California Vehcle Code. The Code defines pickups as commercial vehicles. Look at your registration for any pickup truck it will say commercial right on the registration. You are able to add a camper shell and re register as passenger vehicle in California. Also is much cheaper to register.



You need to read the case above, as it become case law when challenged. These times are a changin.

Been there, Done that
RoyalP


Posts:0


05/13/2019 5:20 AM  
"..... A condominium project may impose covenants and restrictions on the use or enjoyment of any portion of the common interest area. (Civ. Code, § 1353.) These covenants and restrictions become equitable servitudes, unless unreasonable. (Civ. Code, § 1354.) Ώ] Here, the trial court properly found the restriction unreasonable as applied to clean noncommercial pickup trucks. The court correctly concluded the parking of such vehicles in condominium carports was not aesthetically unpleasant to reasonable 𖐶 Cal. App. 3d 155] persons and did not interfere with other owners' use and enjoyment of their property. ....."


makes sense




@Richard,

? would a california case have any bearing in a south carolina action ?
RoyalP


Posts:0


05/13/2019 5:29 AM  
@richard:

the case in point involved a p/u WITH A 'SHELL'





from ca dmv:

An "automobile" is a passenger vehicle that does not transport persons for hire. This includes station wagons, sedans, vans, and sport utility vehicles. Vehicle Code Section 465.

A "commercial vehicle" is a vehicle which is used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property (for example, trucks and pickups). Vehicle Code Section 260. (a 'shell' installed unto a 1/2 ton p/u enables registration EITHER as commercial or passenger vehicle)
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:738


05/13/2019 5:39 AM  
If it were me, I would propose that a commercial vehicle is just that, a vehicle over a certain axel weight and needing a commercial drivers license to operate. This is splitting hairs over vehicles with logos, tool boxes or an on-call paramedic, fireman that is dispatched from their home. There are some reasons why vehicle owners get 'Truck" plates for their cars. One reason is, it allows them to park in loading zones like couriers.

RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/13/2019 8:17 AM  
Posted By RoyalP on 05/13/2019 5:29 AM
@richard:

the case in point involved a p/u WITH A 'SHELL'





from ca dmv:

An "automobile" is a passenger vehicle that does not transport persons for hire. This includes station wagons, sedans, vans, and sport utility vehicles. Vehicle Code Section 465.

A "commercial vehicle" is a vehicle which is used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property (for example, trucks and pickups). Vehicle Code Section 260. (a 'shell' installed unto a 1/2 ton p/u enables registration EITHER as commercial or passenger vehicle)



I have a 2018 RAM 3500 registered as a passenger vehicle

Been there, Done that
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/13/2019 8:18 AM  
Posted By RoyalP on 05/13/2019 5:20 AM
"..... A condominium project may impose covenants and restrictions on the use or enjoyment of any portion of the common interest area. (Civ. Code, § 1353.) These covenants and restrictions become equitable servitudes, unless unreasonable. (Civ. Code, § 1354.) Ώ] Here, the trial court properly found the restriction unreasonable as applied to clean noncommercial pickup trucks. The court correctly concluded the parking of such vehicles in condominium carports was not aesthetically unpleasant to reasonable 𖐶 Cal. App. 3d 155] persons and did not interfere with other owners' use and enjoyment of their property. ....."


makes sense




@Richard,

? would a california case have any bearing in a south carolina action ?



It's called CASE LAW

Been there, Done that
AugustinD


Posts:1886


05/13/2019 8:40 AM  
It's the reasoning at the end of the 1987 California opinion that holds my attention:

"Beauty--even with cars--is in the eye of the beholder. In this world where those persons concerned with upwardly mobile status frequently drive off-road vehicles including well-appointed jeeps or pickup trucks, we think the trial court's ruling is eminently sensible. The pickup truck, often both comfortable and economical, has become for many the equivalent of the convertible in earlier years. As times change, cultural perceptions--including society's acceptance of certain types of vehicles--also change. The pickup truck no longer has a pejorative connotation. One person's Bronco II is another's Rolls-Royce."

It is not binding on other states, of course. However from my reading, nationwide from time to time covenants are thrown out as being unreasonable. I am not talking about covenants like savagely oppressive, and now long outlawed, racial or religious restrictions. I am talking about covenants that reflect the physical accoutrements of old lifestyles.

I think the points in the California decision are sound. Richard's elaboration on this is consistent with my own take. If I were on the board faced with these decisions, I would be giving attention to people needing to make a living; how pickups and SUVs have become fashionable and sometimes, are needed for income; how it seems everyone in the Texas and the U. S. Southwest has a pickup; and so on. I'd try to weigh this against the fact that the covenants are a contract, people having bought into the HOA on the assumption the covenants are Thee Law. But of course, some covenants issues are not always that black and white. Significantly, one can roll the dice on a trial court and sometimes even an appeals court. It's best to avoid both. As many here have noted over the years, it is hard to say what a court would say in similar situations in any given state.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3781


05/13/2019 9:21 AM  
People here are posting definitions of commercial vehicles and I could find dozens more that are equally different.

First, boilerplate CCRs were tied to a HOA like a anchor but the majority don't reflect the communities to which they are tied to. It would be like if the federal government created guns laws and removed the ability to allow to states to create theirs, specific to their state. A one size fits all.

Let's take a plumber with a work truck or van and place them in two different HOA's, one a single family detached (SFD)community with multiple private streets and plenty of street parking. Another a 97 unit Townhome community with limited parking. The plumber is a independent contractor owning their company and on-call 24/7. They are allowed to advertise in the HOA newsletter as a resource in time of need and contribute to the cost of the newsletter. The plumber used to be a mortgage banker but was shut out after the crash of 2007-2008.

In the townhome community, the person couldn't park their truck in the garage and can't park in the limited amount of visitor spaces. The HOA created 8 spaces that are available for rent on a monthly basis just for these type of situations. Otherwise they would have to park somewhere else, which actually be some distance.

The SFD has plenty of space. They have a three car garage and enough to park three vehicles in driveways plus any street parking. BTW, both communities have "no commercial vehicle" (whatever interpretation you can muster up) language in their CCRs. The SFD has a cranky old biddy on the Board who doesn't like an individual, well, a lot of different types of individuals, if you get my drift. She has had this plumber's vehicle cited and fined on numerous occasions, even threatened to have it towed. Her next door neighbor works for State Farms as a claims adjuster and drive a company vehicle with company decals. This is no problem to her.

At 1:00 AM in both communities a water heater burst and begins to flood the home. One plumber can get there right away with their tools while the other has to travel to get their vehicle, wherever they found parking.


Unfortunately today's Boards are not smart enough or too lazy or have their own agenda to figure these things out. Lawyers are no help, just muddy the waters.

In 2015, I moved out of my HOA. It took me one year to find a house that wasn't in a HOA. I could have purchased a new one within a HOA the next day anywhere in Southern California. Any homes built today are all in HOA's.

Been there, Done that
RoyalP


Posts:0


05/13/2019 12:23 PM  
..... It took me one year to find a house that wasn't in a HOA. .....



You have PROVEN your ability to reason
ChristinaB2
(California)

Posts:15


05/22/2019 8:38 PM  
Thank you all for your responses, I just think it is pretty crappy for the Board to change the rules of the game, half way through the game when things are not going there way, and they are being challenged by an homeowners attorney that has stated that the HOA rules are ambiguous.
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