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JudyL6 (California)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Our HOA says we cannot rent our unit because we are at the maximum rentals allowed by the CCRs. They are counting 3 units that are occupied by adult children, with the owners living elsewhere, as rentals instead of owner occupied. Nothing in our documents mentions this definition. Can they do this?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Is it their kids? Can they be keeping up the house for them? What punishment happens if the rule is violated?

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
What does your HOA's rental restriction say? That will spell out what they can and cannot do.

Some restrictions may have a strict interpretation of the term "rental", such as a unit that is occupied by anyone other than the unit owner. Others may exempt first degree relatives of the owner. But what matters to you is what your HOA has chosen to do.

Can they do it? Yeah, unless you want to go through the time and expense of a lawsuit and take your chances that a judge may agree with you. Associations have rental restrictions in order to preserve the character of the community, preserve property values, and maintain FHA eligibility (lenders won't approve mortgages in communities with too many rentals). Restrictions of this sort are attached to the deed of your home, copies of which you should have received when you bought your home.

(As an aside, when my association was looking into enacting a rental restriction, our lawyer recommended not having numerical limit because owners will be treated differently, since approval to rent your home depends on timing and actions of others. Restrictions of this sort are more vulnerable to court challenges.)
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/18/2019 8:12 AM
(As an aside, when my association was looking into enacting a rental restriction, our lawyer recommended not having numerical limit because owners will be treated differently, since approval to rent your home depends on timing and actions of others. Restrictions of this sort are more vulnerable to court challenges.)

At the risk of going off on a tangent, what was the alternative to a numerical limit that they recommended?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimM11 on 03/18/2019 11:05 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/18/2019 8:12 AM
(As an aside, when my association was looking into enacting a rental restriction, our lawyer recommended not having numerical limit because owners will be treated differently, since approval to rent your home depends on timing and actions of others. Restrictions of this sort are more vulnerable to court challenges.)


At the risk of going off on a tangent, what was the alternative to a numerical limit that they recommended?

Their recommendations resulted from a review of court cases around the country. Here is what they felt would be most likely to stand up in court:

* First degree relatives (parent, child, sibling) of the unit owner should not be counted as tenants.

* All owners should be entitled to a one-time exemption for up to two years. For example, if you must relocate and can't sell your home, you can rent it for up to two years. However, if the tenant moves out after a year, you can't lease it to a new tenant - you've used your exemption. (Lawyer felt that we shouldn't call it a "hardship" exemption, otherwise we'd be arguing over whether individual cases qualified.)

* Currently leased units should be grandfathered in until the unit is sold.

Even though this is a pretty loose rental cap, the amendment did not pass (over 25% of unit owners were not in favor). Owners may regret this if investors start to target the community. Our CC&Rs already prohibit short-term rentals (less than 6 months), as well as hotel or corporate rentals, and we enforce that. I check the airbnb web site regularly.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/18/2019 1:15 PM
Posted By TimM11 on 03/18/2019 11:05 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/18/2019 8:12 AM

At the risk of going off on a tangent, what was the alternative to a numerical limit that they recommended?


Their recommendations resulted from a review of court cases around the country. Here is what they felt would be most likely to stand up in court:

* First degree relatives (parent, child, sibling) of the unit owner should not be counted as tenants.

* All owners should be entitled to a one-time exemption for up to two years. For example, if you must relocate and can't sell your home, you can rent it for up to two years. However, if the tenant moves out after a year, you can't lease it to a new tenant - you've used your exemption. (Lawyer felt that we shouldn't call it a "hardship" exemption, otherwise we'd be arguing over whether individual cases qualified.)

* Currently leased units should be grandfathered in until the unit is sold.

Even though this is a pretty loose rental cap, the amendment did not pass (over 25% of unit owners were not in favor). Owners may regret this if investors start to target the community. Our CC&Rs already prohibit short-term rentals (less than 6 months), as well as hotel or corporate rentals, and we enforce that. I check the airbnb web site regularly.

Ooops, I wasn't clear. The bullet points I listed above were the exemptions from a blanket no-rentals restriction. In other words, owners may not rent their units unless they fall into one of the categories above.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our Covenants say no rentals within the first year of ownership and no rental for 6 months or less. I know of 3 cases where the parents bought the house and their child moved in. As the children were adults and we had no complaints concerning them, we ignored it. We have one case where the child bought the home and her Dad only moved in. Again, no problems so another blind eye.

Overall my HOA believes no complaint, no foul.
GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
We are owner occupied and no rentals. That way an owner that lives there can't rent out rooms.

We had one that tried "it's not a renter it's my mom." We found out mom was paying the utilities and that is rent. Mom is now on the deed and they had to pay our legal fees. That is when we changed to owner occupied.

People better think twice before saying relatives aren't renters. In many cases they can't afford a home and the family has to buy them a place to live. Good luck with the owner wanting to maintain the property or raise HOA fees because they are thinking I already had to buy them a home and I'm not spending any more than I have to.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Actually when you rent your home, the HOA dues become tax deductible as they count as "maintenance". You can not do this as the owner/main residence. It's NOT tax-deductible. So raising the dues for one's rental property doesn't result in much argument. The renter never pays the dues to the HOA.

My thing is with rental, is unless the HOA owns the home, do not think they need to control if owner rents it out or not. The owner NEEDS to put in their agreement that the renter follows the HOA rules or subject to eviction. (That's not in nor required in most rental agreements/HOA rules). Having that rule protects owner/HOA. That is because the HOA has to hold the feet down of the owner to upkeep/follow the rules.

Former HOA President
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeR8 on 03/24/2019 2:04 AM
We are owner occupied and no rentals. That way an owner that lives there can't rent out rooms.

We had one that tried "it's not a renter it's my mom." We found out mom was paying the utilities and that is rent. Mom is now on the deed and they had to pay our legal fees. That is when we changed to owner occupied.

People better think twice before saying relatives aren't renters. In many cases they can't afford a home and the family has to buy them a place to live. Good luck with the owner wanting to maintain the property or raise HOA fees because they are thinking I already had to buy them a home and I'm not spending any more than I have to.


Obviously I'm lacking all details here, but I gotta ask . . . was the juice worth the squeeze?

You sure showed that homeowner and their mom! Nothing at all changed about the overall situation aside from a lot of money being spent and anxiety, frustration, wasted time, and bad feelings on both sides. I'm sure mom was a significant drain on the common elements and causing enough trouble to necessitate HOA intervention. But now that she's on the deed, all is good . . . they are paying exactly what they were before for the monthly/yearly assessment, but the mighty HOA has won (I suppose) . . . and the lawyer made a few bucks off of them to boot!

Congrats?
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
..... or

incorporate

mom is 1% owner

everyone, especially the attorneys, become(s) very happy

rah rah

HOA

sis boom bah

hooray hooray

HOA

bs-meter
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I don't believe any one actually read what the OP actually posted.

The poster was actually asking if the HOA can count toward the number of rental, the three that are being lived in by the owners children. No one actually had an issue with the children living there with the exception of one person from Arizona.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/25/2019 11:18 AM
I don't believe any one actually read what the OP actually posted.

The poster was actually asking if the HOA can count toward the number of rental, the three that are being lived in by the owners children. No one actually had an issue with the children living there with the exception of one person from Arizona.

I read it and said that it depends what the OP's rental restriction says. Some restrictions count any non-owner occupants as renters, others do not count first-degree relatives. The OP's board has to enforce whatever flavor of restriction that HOA has. And because boards have to avoid selective enforcement, they can't just enforce when there are problem tenants.

It can be difficult to enforce the stricter restrictions. In my community we've had older residents living in units owned by their adult children as a result of estate planning maneuvering, divorce decrees, etc. None of them involved formal, written leases. Are these rentals or not? You can make a reasonable case either way.

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