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Subject: Is it overreaching?
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LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:712


03/04/2019 8:35 PM  
Is it overreacting to put into a contact with a vendor to demand a start date, and end date AND ask for a 10% bill reduction for each day the project remains unfinished?
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2565


03/05/2019 4:07 AM  
You can (and should) ask for whatever you want - whether the vendor will agree to it is another story. That's why you do your due diligence when selecting a contractor and get everything in writing.

I believe ANY repair or home improvement project should have a start and end date, along with:

language on how changes are to be handled
specifics on what will be done, the type and quantity of materials to be used
who cleans up after the project is finished
a lien release from all subcontractors (so they won't put a lien on your property if they don't get paid by the main contractor)
who gets the permits (ultimately it's homeowner responsibility, so if the vendor says he/she will do it, get it in writing and be sure to inspect it before the work begins
a payment schedule (don't pay more than 20% at the start and don't pay the balance until after you've inspected the work, the area has been cleaned up and you have documentation that all liens have been released from all subcontractors

There's more, but that's a start.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2565


03/05/2019 4:27 AM  
I should also mention that if I were a vendor, I wouldn't agree to a 10% reduction - what if the reason for missing the date is the homeowner's fault? Sometimes you don't know the project will get complicated until after you start and find something that wasn't apparent when the estimate was prepared (thus the language for handling changes).
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8297


03/05/2019 4:46 AM  
I would not agree to the 10% either. Maybe more like the job shouldn't go over a 20% threshold of overall costs. Meaning they can't just start tacking on charges. It's reasonable if they find something that needs fixing along the way or additional materials. However, if it's going to add another 20% to the overall cost, then I would make that another contract for repairing. A contractor can't predict what issues/expenses they may run into when doing a project. So should build in a bit of a bumper.

Be careful of some contractors who want to add on their own expenses. There are certain things that is the nature of their job. Like if they are painters. Their paint brushes all go bad doing your job. They now want you to pay for their replacement brushes. I would say "no". The nature of their job are they are painters. It is the cost of them doing business. However, if they run out of paint then HOA pays for that.

I bring that up due to my ex-president who was a con man. He'd often bid out jobs and low bid them. However, along the way he would add on additional expenses and pass them onto the customer. So at the end the customer was paying for much additional work or expenses. They were things like his own supplies. So just be aware if you run across someone like that. Supplies should be things that involve the job itself, not something the contractor can walk away with IMO.

Former HOA President
TimM11


Posts:273


03/05/2019 8:45 AM  
I can't see many (or any) vendors agreeing to such a thing. Not sure what kind of project you're talking about, but around here at least, no landscaping company/contractor/etc lacks for work and most of them have a backlog anyway. Plus you'll get a reputation as a difficult client.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1419


03/05/2019 11:31 AM  
It is not unusual for large public and private projects to include performance bonuses for meeting schedule goals, or to have penalties for missing them. 10% per day seems extremely excessive. If the project is completed 10 days late, the contractor works for free. If you can get anybody to agree to this, hire them on the spot and make it difficult for them to complete on schedule.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:712


03/05/2019 5:28 PM  
I just threw 10% out there jut for the heck of it. The reason I ask, we had a project a few years ago that honestly should have taken less that 7 total days to complete. The two days after the demo, we had high winds for a few days. That put the contractors off schedule. The contractors started working on other clients projects and we got pushed back almost 90 days until total completion. I vowed as a board member that we are not going to have any more foul-up or goofiness.


BTW has anyone used pebble-tech finish in their pools or hot tubs? The stuff is supposed to have a 25 year warranty, but I don't think the warranty is "commercial" rated it is only home rated.
RoyalP


Posts:0


03/05/2019 7:23 PM  
The 'product' may have a 25 year warranty (similar to roof shingles ?!), but, what about the labor ??!!!!


eg. your 25 year $20,000 roof fails after 5 years and the 'shingle company' ships you $3500 in shingles




..... just sayin'


my HOA had the issue with 'fibre-tech' lining - we received $2950 worth of 'product' after spending $29000 for the total installation when it failed at 4 years (possibly due to faulty installation)
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1419


03/05/2019 8:04 PM  
Posted By RoyalP on 03/05/2019 7:23 PM
The 'product' may have a 25 year warranty (similar to roof shingles ?!), but, what about the labor ??!!!!



Not only do warranties often only cover product, not labor, they are also often pro-rated. If the shingles fail 15 years into a 25 year warranty, you get 40% of the value. But it gets even better, because their idea of giving you 40% is to give you 40% off an inflated list price so that it works out that you are paying normal retail for your replacement shingles.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RoyalP


Posts:0


03/06/2019 7:22 AM  
correct

GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3048


03/06/2019 12:48 PM  
Posted By LetA on 03/04/2019 8:35 PM
Is it overreacting to put into a contact with a vendor to demand a start date, and end date AND ask for a 10% bill reduction for each day the project remains unfinished?

I don't think so. You probably want to negotiate the terms with the vendor, but some time constraints are desirable and not unreasonable. We had a big roofing job once and the contract did not contain a "finish" date. The roofer did half the job and headed off to the other side of the state for 6 months leaving us with 20 roofs that still had not been repaired half a year after the contract was signed. That situation could have been avoided if the contract had provided a finish date "no later than...." some mutually agreed upon date.
RoyalP


Posts:0


03/11/2019 11:24 AM  
The key legalese is:


"Time is of the essence." Work to be completed no later than xx/xx/xxxx.

Penalty for each 24 hour period late is {negotiable amount / % of contract / whatever}.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:712


03/12/2019 5:34 AM  
Posted By RoyalP on 03/11/2019 11:24 AM
The key legalese is:


"Time is of the essence." Work to be completed no later than xx/xx/xxxx.

Penalty for each 24 hour period late is {negotiable amount / % of contract / whatever}.




It worked itself out, I was able to convince the PM to get the project completed in 4 days instead of 7.
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