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Subject: Motion and bylaw violation
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OwenB
(Florida)

Posts:9


01/06/2019 11:12 PM  
At an Association meeting a motion from the floor was made, seconded and passed by majority vote to add another association meeting without being on the agenda and without any 14 day notice that our bylaws requires. This motion would change the bylaws by adding this extra meeting without notifying the other members not at the meeting any voting right, discussion, or 14 days notice of this motion being made. As president I want to make proper compliance . At another association meeting a motion to rescind by violation probably would be voted down with the group. Any other way to rescind this motion ?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8297


01/07/2019 6:02 AM  
So what is the purpose of this 2nd meeting? Not sure what voting rights of other members would be violated. It's a board meeting correct? General membership doesn't usually vote at those.

Just curious why the 2nd meeting and if there will be notes? Is it going to be a formal one or just another meeting for everyone to get on the same page? Does it need to have the by-laws modified or just noted in the meeting notes?

So many questions...

Former HOA President
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2565


01/07/2019 6:04 AM  
You'll probably have to wait until the next meeting to address this. You say a motion to rescind the motion would 'probably" be voted down, but don't know for certain, so at the next meeting, express your concerns (cite the section of the bylaws that address this) and see what happens.

That said, what are your concerns about adding another meeting and what type is it? The members still have to be notified that the meeting is being held regardless of the type, and they have the option to attend or not. There may be slightly different requirements for an annual meeting vs. a special homeowner's meeting vs. a regular board meeting - recheck your documents so you'll know exactly what type of meeting you're talking about.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6418


01/07/2019 8:28 AM  
With others, your post, Owen, is a little confusing.

To be sure I understand: You do say Association Meeting (aka, meeting of the Members [owners]), right?

The item to have a second Association meeting was not on the recent Association meeting agenda. Must it be on the agenda according to your bylaws or FL statute? If so, what is the exit wording of that bylaw or statute?

Why do owners want an additional association meeting every year? Do they have association meetings mixed up with board meetings?

AugustinD


Posts:1785


01/07/2019 8:34 AM  
Posted By OwenB on 01/06/2019 11:12 PM
At an Association meeting a motion from the floor was made, seconded and passed by majority vote to add another association meeting without being on the agenda and without any 14 day notice that our bylaws requires. This motion would change the bylaws by adding this extra meeting without notifying the other members not at the meeting any voting right, discussion, or 14 days notice of this motion being made. As president I want to make proper compliance . At another association meeting a motion to rescind by violation probably would be voted down with the group. Any other way to rescind this motion ?


For context, was this a Meeting of All Members or a Meeting of the Board?

Either way, so-and-so can take a vote and ostensibly pass whatever motion it wants. But this does not mean the Board has to take action that is unlawful. When it comes time to implement the motion, the HOA should refuse to do so, stating proper notice was absent, and so the motion is a violation of the Bylaws and, if implemented, would make the HOA vulnerable to a court challenge. As needed ask the HOA attorney to write something up on the point. Then present this to the membership. At the next meeting, explain all of this. If people want to go to court, let them.

The typical HOA member has next-to-no understanding of the legal implications of not complying with the governing documents. I think one of the main functions of a HOA Board is to educate. One of the main chores of a HOA President is to preside at meetings. A savvy HOA president would have forbid this motion and discussion, stating that proper notice was not given, and so even if the membership insisted on a kangaroo court type of vote, the "passed" motion would not be legally enforceable. Then explain the proper way to get this on a meeting agenda et cetera. If the next Meeting of Members is not for many months, have a director put the idea of another association meeting on an agenda for discussion.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16382


01/07/2019 8:40 AM  
Realistically, expecting this was at a general membership meeting, the vote is invalid. This is because not all members of the Association was aware of the vote being taken.

That said, the Board can call a membership meeting at anytime they desire.

My suggestion, call a general membership meeting for the purpose of voting to amending the Bylaws to require 2 vs. 1 general membership meeting.
SueW6
(Michigan)

Posts:503


01/07/2019 1:31 PM  
Any motion that would change the bylaws would have to go thru the steps outlined in your current bylaws for how to amend them and who has that power.

Interesting concept however. WHY is another Annual Meeting of the Members even needed? Sounds like they aren’t getting info from the B oard, so they want another meeting.

OwenB
(Florida)

Posts:9


01/07/2019 7:39 PM  
Hey all , Thank you all for your input. I pretty much was thinking along the lines as most of you . I wanted to hear someone else say it.
Some clarification : As I said it was at a association / members meeting. We have 3 association meetings Nov, Dec, and January all for different purposes that covers everything necessary . Most of this started when some Snowbirds thought we should cradle to their life style and work our meetings to their 2nd home arrivals. Our meetings has been as is for ever. This one person became over excited and made this motion to add another meeting making it 4 association and 4 board meeting in 4 months, a little much. He would not with draw even after being told all the reasons he should. This part doesn't bother me it can be worked out, I just wanted to correctly dissolve the invalid motion . Thank you .
SueW6
(Michigan)

Posts:503


01/08/2019 5:18 AM  
Too bad the motion ever was allowed to be made. That says the board and especially the president dont know their own bylaws and don’t know that the motion was invalid.

Expunge the motion from the minutes.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6418


01/08/2019 4:29 PM  
I'm not sure but I don't think something that actually was motioned and decided at a meeting can be "expunged," and I'd need to see a citation from Robert's Rules or some other reliable source.

but I don't think that Owen needs to make a motion to rescind that "decision" either. Augustine's advice looks like the most sensible and legal to me: "When it comes time to implement the motion, the [board] should refuse to do so, stating proper notice was absent, and so the motion is a violation of the Bylaws ... As needed ask the HOA attorney to write something up on the point."

But, Owen, why in the world does your HOA need so many members meetings?? Is your board permitting members to make lots of decisions that the should be the work of the board??

GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3048


01/09/2019 3:18 PM  
Isn't a motion to do something that violates the Bylaws out-of-order?
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