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Subject: Grandfathering under changing rules
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Author Messages
HarryJ2
(Florida)

Posts:1


11/20/2018 8:15 PM  
Our HOA board is considering adding a restriction regarding lawn mowers and other lawn maintenance equipment left out in view from the street.

If there are currently owners who leave their riding mower on their driveway, can they claim to be grandfathered under the old rules which do not restrict such equipment from being left out in the open?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16045


11/21/2018 2:01 AM  
Grandfathering is not an automatic thing.
It must be written into the document to exist.

The question that should be asked is if the Board has the authority to create a rule/restriction concerning restrictions on private property? For that answer, one needs to read the covenants.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3123


11/21/2018 4:53 AM  
Sheeeesh. I'm surprised some HOA's even allow humans to live in them at all. I'm sure some boards would prefer if no one lived in the entire neighborhood and just kept the houses as a hobby, kind of like a doll house.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:796


11/21/2018 8:51 AM  
Steve,

I think you are off topic - the point of this forum is to offer help in a positive manner - not to take broad positions as you have.

In order to provide an immediate offset, I like the idea of controlled environments when one lives close to others ... rules are needed ... the issue in this case, I think, is to determine what process must be followed - or, if there is a process at all given the current governing documents.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


11/21/2018 9:36 AM  
If your board, Harry, has the authority to make such a rule as stated in your governing documents, it can, while having to follow a certain procedure. If it does everything to the book, the rule is valid. It is not the type of rule where previous acceptable behavior can be permitted to continue. In other words, I see no reason why there should be a grandfather clause concerning this particular rule.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7865


11/21/2018 1:31 PM  
Just because someone has been doing something, does not mean when a Rule is put in place they do not have to abide by it.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3123


11/21/2018 7:48 PM  

I think you are off topic - the point of this forum is to offer help in a positive manner - not to take broad positions as you have.


I respectfully disagree. I am providing perspective on an overbearing board.



In order to provide an immediate offset, I like the idea of controlled environments when one lives close to others ... rules are needed


Again..... I respectfully disagree. The rule is overbearing. There doesnt need to be a rule for everything.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


11/21/2018 9:33 PM  
Opinions about the new rule are not what the OP asked, Steve. Is it still you who write your posts, Steve? They used to be written more clearly.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2518


11/21/2018 11:46 PM  
Posted By HarryJ2 on 11/20/2018 8:15 PM
Our HOA board is considering adding a restriction regarding lawn mowers and other lawn maintenance equipment left out in view from the street.

If there are currently owners who leave their riding mower on their driveway, can they claim to be grandfathered under the old rules which do not restrict such equipment from being left out in the open?

I'm going to say 'no'. I know of several associations where vehicle rules were changed to prohibit vehicles over a certain size and some owners had to get rid of their pickup trucks. On the other hand, I've seen associations change the rules on allowable pet weight and breed restricitons. Existing pets were grandfatherd in but upon those pets' demise the newer rules had to be complied with. It may come down to what's in the CC&Rs exactly since no rule change can affect what the CC&Rs say.

I highly doubt restrictions on where lawn maintenance equipment and tools may be stored would amount to a fundamental property right. Usually grandfathering something relates to changes regarding property rights or, in some cases, the rights granted to homeowners by the CC&Rs.

It sounds like the offenders are grasping at straws and heard the word "grandfathering" once without really understand its significance.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:203


11/22/2018 6:02 AM  
The CCRs grant NO 'rights'.

The CCRs impose RESTRICTIONS.

If not restricted 'it'is permitted. (subject to any actual 'governmental law')

A 'rule' may not be imposed UNLESS authorization for said rule is in the CCRs.

In a condo type 'arrangement' where one does not own the driveway fee simple ..... ?
AugustinD


Posts:1208


11/22/2018 7:40 AM  
I agree with the majority here that you likely can restrict that which is unsightly and no grandfathering is required. But I have a few observations to make. Riding mowers are pretty big. I think they are close to amounting to a vehicle that is driven every so often and left on the driveway. Also the use of a riding mower helps ensure the manicured lawn look that suburban residents favor. It's kind of a good thing that people purchase mowers to maintain their yards. Lastly from helping a friend of mine with his mowers, mower maintenance and upkeep is pretty intense vis-a-vis a car or truck. Let gas sit in a mower's carburetor a month, and we're talking probably having to throw in a new carburetor. Not a big deal but the point is, mowers need maintenance and having them parked in a driveway, for easy access for maintenance, can make some sense. I think I would have a discussion in front of the membership about parking riding mowers on driveways. If I were a director, I could see maybe voting to allow riding mowers, but not push mowers and other hand-operated (so to speak) equipment, in driveways and yards.

I would also bear in mind that, if your covenants say nothing unsightly is to be left in yards and driveways, then your HOA may not need another rule. Perhaps it should just provide a proper warning and then notice of violation to anyone violating the unsightly rule. Preferably the architectural committee and manager would handle such notices.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:796


11/22/2018 9:42 AM  
Lawn maintenance equipment should be hidden, in the garage or a storage area.

And, I disagree with Augustin on this one. Maintenance of riding or push mowers is easy ...

Hard to understand some of this.
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Grandfathering under changing rules



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