Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Sunday, May 19, 2019
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: HOA Management company refusing to say which houses have unpaid dues
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 7:36 AM  
I'm a resident and the HOA management company is refusing to tell me which 1 house has unpaid dues (They were due January 2018 and they are still unpaid as of November 2018)

I'm in North Carolina, and the North Carolina Planned Community Act law says:

Chapter 47F-3-118. Association records
"(b) The association, upon written request, shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot. The statement shall be furnished within 10 business days after receipt of the request and is binding on the association, the executive board, and every lot owner. "

It says "shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot."

I am a lot owner. The last words there say "against a lot". Not "Against your lot only".

Is the mangement company correct, or am I correct?
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:692


11/15/2018 7:46 AM  
Let the attorneys order new cars ...................


IMO: you are interpreting a 'vague' section as you would like it to be
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6350


11/15/2018 8:13 AM  
Yes, is too vague. "Against A lot" makes it sound like a particular lot. But, idk. Attorney can probably answer for $250. Why not just get the amounts owed? why do you want info telling you which lit? Is it to see if the owner is qualified to serve on the board?
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 8:20 AM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/15/2018 8:13 AM
Yes, is too vague. "Against A lot" makes it sound like a particular lot. But, idk. Attorney can probably answer for $250. Why not just get the amounts owed? why do you want info telling you which lit? Is it to see if the owner is qualified to serve on the board?




Because I'm 99% sure it's 1 of the board members that owes the amount, and I want to make that info public at the next community meeting, so he can be removed from the board.

Our documents allow someone thats past due to be on the board, but gives the board power to remove him themself, which they haven't done.
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1366


11/15/2018 9:07 AM  
I would argue that HOA must certainly communicate your account's details w/ you but are under no obligations to discuss another account's standing w/ you. While the board is bound to ethical standards regarding dues payments, to release information so a private citizen can publicly exposure a homeowner's delinquency would not be responsible.

I'd be willing to let you pay a lawyer to fight our board over it if were in our neighborhood, whether or not the HOA hired a lawyer to fight back at all.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8267


11/15/2018 10:03 AM  
There has been a lot of back and forth about how much should be published concerning dues delinquencies. Some argue publish the name of the person. Others argue just show totals. Our BOD gets a list of delinquencies by name. Our lawyer has advised us that publishing this list could open us to lawsuits if there is an error of any type. We opt not to publish it. We do publish amounts but no names, lot numbers, etc.

To the OP. I expect your BOD Members get the names thus I suggest you might go that route. Notify the BOD you believe someone on the BOD and/or running for election is not qualified as they are delinquent. Let them deal with it.
SueW6
(Michigan)

Posts:489


11/15/2018 12:03 PM  
My former HOA board was given ADDRESSES who were delinquent and the amount AND the status of the attempt to collect. Some were just days overdue, some had the water notice delivered, some had water turned off, some had liens on them. This was part of the Treasurer's report.

Do not release names.


RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:692


11/15/2018 12:11 PM  
..... Because I'm 99% sure it's 1 of the board members that owes the amount .....



to paraphrase Pogo: In other words, you don't know.


JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 12:15 PM  
Our board receives a list of late accounts that contains name & property address & amount.

But they are unwilling to release the name or address.

The NC law I quoted above makes it sound like a lot owner (which I am) can request the balance of any lot. The last 3 words here: ""shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot."

The reason I think it's a board member that is the 1 person with unpaid dues, is because I was on the board previously, and he had unpaid dues for 1 year then also. Also this board member's electricity has been shut off multiple times recently for no payment. It's a small community of 40-50 houses, so I am confident in my assumption that it's him.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:692


11/15/2018 12:40 PM  
..... my assumption that it's him. .....



J'accuse!

J'accuse!



JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8267


11/15/2018 1:58 PM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 11/15/2018 12:15 PM
Our board receives a list of late accounts that contains name & property address & amount.

But they are unwilling to release the name or address.

The NC law I quoted above makes it sound like a lot owner (which I am) can request the balance of any lot. The last 3 words here: ""shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot."

The reason I think it's a board member that is the 1 person with unpaid dues, is because I was on the board previously, and he had unpaid dues for 1 year then also. Also this board member's electricity has been shut off multiple times recently for no payment. It's a small community of 40-50 houses, so I am confident in my assumption that it's him.




Jeremy

You are reading it like:

""shall furnish to any lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against any lot."

That is not how I read it.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6350


11/15/2018 2:04 PM  
Thought this seemed familiar, Jeremy has brought this up before--or something very similar to it.
FredS7
(Arizona)

Posts:895


11/15/2018 3:35 PM  
The language quoted is somewhat ambiguous. As a board member, I would construe it to mean that disclosure of the owner's name of the lot with unpaid dues was not required.

OP is, of course, allowed to sue to get the information he wants.

JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 3:47 PM  
Posted By FredS7 on 11/15/2018 3:35 PM
The language quoted is somewhat ambiguous. As a board member, I would construe it to mean that disclosure of the owner's name of the lot with unpaid dues was not required.

OP is, of course, allowed to sue to get the information he wants.





Since it says "charges against a lot"

How would you feel if a resident said to the board "Hey I'm requesting the balance for lot #42", and not requesting a name, just a balance for that address.
ArtL1
(Florida)

Posts:133


11/15/2018 5:21 PM  
This bit may be more relevant.

"All financial and other records, including records of meetings of the association and executive board, shall be made reasonably available for examination by any lot owner and the lot owner's authorized agents as required in the bylaws and Chapter 55A of the General Statutes."

Does "all financial records" include individual lot assessment payments and balances? I don't see how it wouldn't.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2464


11/15/2018 5:51 PM  
This again??? Look, it is NONE of your business as to which house is delinquent. You do have a right to how how many are delinquent, the total amount owed and general information as to how the board is addressing it (e.g. all accounts have been sent to the attorney, X number have liens filed, X number have been sued, etc.)

You do realize that this cuts both ways - you want to know if this board member or someone else owes the association money, well, the same request could be made of YOU. Do you want all the details of your account exposed for the whole world to see?

Some have commented on disclosing delinquent homeowner names and as a former treasurer of my board, I have yet to see any situation where that resulted in the homeowner paying up. That may have been a thing in ancient days where people were sold into slavery or went to prison (along with the families) if debts weren't paid, but not anymore. I always said if people really want to know who owes what, offer to pay the debt - after that I'd expose everything as soon as the check cleared. Instead it brings up gossip at best (which does nothing to pay the debt) to people giving each other the stink eye (still no payment of the debt) and at worse, someone confronts someone else and next thing you know there's an argument followed by a shooting on the 6 o'clock news.

You keep harping on this board member and the only reason you're doing it is because you want him/her off the board. And it's getting tiresome - if you really want to know, offer to pay the debt in exchange for the information, and then you can do what you like (and deal with the consequences). Or just run against him - I seem to recall you said you were voted out or something because "you were the only one willing to enforce the rules." Fine - tell everyone what you've learned since then and let them decide. If you win, you'll find out soon enough who's delinquent and if the board is addressing everyone according to the collection policy.

Or just sue the association and see if the judge agrees with you - my guess is that you'll be laughed out of the courtroom.



GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2892


11/15/2018 5:51 PM  
At the risk of being contrarian, I interpret the language, "... shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot," to mean ANY lot owner may see a statment of unpaid assessments and other charges against ANY lot.

That's the law in Florida and that's the way I think it should be everywhere. So maybe I'm looking at it from the POV of the way I want it to be. But maybe not. If it was meant to be restricted to a lot owner's OWN statement of unpaid assessments it would have said that explicitly. I don't think it's ambiguous at all.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 6:13 PM  
Posted By SheliaH on 11/15/2018 5:51 PM

You do realize that this cuts both ways - you want to know if this board member or someone else owes the association money, well, the same request could be made of YOU. Do you want all the details of your account exposed for the whole world to see?





I'm not a deadbeat. I pay my bills. I don't care if people want to request to see my HOA balance.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 6:15 PM  
Posted By SheliaH on 11/15/2018 5:51 PM
Some have commented on disclosing delinquent homeowner names and as a former treasurer of my board, I have yet to see any situation where that resulted in the homeowner paying up.




I don't want to expose his balance to get him to pay up. I want to expose his balance so the residents vote to remove him from the Board!
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 6:17 PM  
Fine - I'm just going to encourage all the other residents to STOP paying their dues as well, since 1 person isn't paying their dues and the HOA is doing NOTHING to try to collect on it.

Maybe this will force the HOA to send the 1 debtor to collections finally after 1 year past due.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:548


11/15/2018 7:01 PM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 11/15/2018 7:36 AM
I'm a resident and the HOA management company is refusing to tell me which 1 house has unpaid dues (They were due January 2018 and they are still unpaid as of November 2018)

I'm in North Carolina, and the North Carolina Planned Community Act law says:

Chapter 47F-3-118. Association records
"(b) The association, upon written request, shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot. The statement shall be furnished within 10 business days after receipt of the request and is binding on the association, the executive board, and every lot owner. "

It says "shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot."

I am a lot owner. The last words there say "against a lot". Not "Against your lot only".

Is the mangement company correct, or am I correct?




By my reading you are correct.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:548


11/15/2018 7:04 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 11/15/2018 5:51 PM
At the risk of being contrarian, I interpret the language, "... shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot," to mean ANY lot owner may see a statment of unpaid assessments and other charges against ANY lot.

That's the law in Florida and that's the way I think it should be everywhere. So maybe I'm looking at it from the POV of the way I want it to be. But maybe not. If it was meant to be restricted to a lot owner's OWN statement of unpaid assessments it would have said that explicitly. I don't think it's ambiguous at all.




There wouldn't need to be a law to allow a lot owner to know their own balance! Anyway, I agree with you about lack of ambiguity.

It isn't the law in Texas and I agree with the way Texas does it, so I am definitely not reading it the way I want to. The only thing I wish was different in Texas is an exception for members of the board or candidates. We should know if they are not in good standing. It's a requirement in our by-laws to be in good standing, but what good does that do if we may not find out if a candidate or board member is?
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:548


11/15/2018 7:06 PM  
Posted By ArtL1 on 11/15/2018 5:21 PM
This bit may be more relevant.

"All financial and other records, including records of meetings of the association and executive board, shall be made reasonably available for examination by any lot owner and the lot owner's authorized agents as required in the bylaws and Chapter 55A of the General Statutes."

Does "all financial records" include individual lot assessment payments and balances? I don't see how it wouldn't.




Depends on the state. Some have protection for privacy in the matter of delinquencies.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 7:10 PM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 11/15/2018 7:01 PM
Posted By JeremyM3 on 11/15/2018 7:36 AM
I'm a resident and the HOA management company is refusing to tell me which 1 house has unpaid dues (They were due January 2018 and they are still unpaid as of November 2018)

I'm in North Carolina, and the North Carolina Planned Community Act law says:

Chapter 47F-3-118. Association records
"(b) The association, upon written request, shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot. The statement shall be furnished within 10 business days after receipt of the request and is binding on the association, the executive board, and every lot owner. "

It says "shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot."

I am a lot owner. The last words there say "against a lot". Not "Against your lot only".

Is the mangement company correct, or am I correct?




By my reading you are correct.




Thank you Jennifer. I just drafted up a demand letter to send to the HOA. If they still refuse to provide the info, I will bring it to court myself.


Dear Sir/Madam,

The undersigned hereby demands that you:

Provide the outstanding account balance owed to ____ Homeowners Association for the lot located at: _____ to Jeremy ____. I requested this information four times in writing on October 4th, 2018, October 11th, 2018, October 18th, 2018, and November 5th, 2018 via e-mail to [email protected]

Per Chapter 47F of the North Carolina Planned Community Act, located at: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bychapter/chapter_47f.html

§ 47F-3-118. Association records.
(b) The association, upon written request, shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot. The statement shall be furnished within 10 business days after receipt of the request and is binding on the association, the executive board, and every lot owner.

The Act states “shall furnish to a lot owner…” I am a lot owner of ______ Homeowner’s Association. Then it goes on to say “a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot.” ____ Lane is by definition, a lot. If it was meant to be restricted to a lot owner's OWN statement of unpaid assessments it would have said that explicitly. The law is not ambiguous and _____ Management is in violation by not providing the requested information. We are well past 10 business days and this information has not been furnished to me.

I will expect a response by December 3rd, 2018 or legal proceedings may begin.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8079


11/15/2018 7:27 PM  
So let's be fair... How do you feel about your neighbor demanding your payment records? Oh and the MC/HOA giving it to them without context? Now goo...

Former HOA President
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/15/2018 7:41 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/15/2018 7:27 PM
So let's be fair... How do you feel about your neighbor demanding your payment records? Oh and the MC/HOA giving it to them without context? Now goo...




I answered that a few posts up:

I'm not a deadbeat. I pay my bills on time. I don't care if people want to request to see my HOA balance.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:548


11/15/2018 8:01 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/15/2018 7:27 PM
So let's be fair... How do you feel about your neighbor demanding your payment records? Oh and the MC/HOA giving it to them without context? Now goo...




I don't see how feelings come into a matter of law.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8079


11/15/2018 9:07 PM  
Okay. Can I see your payment records good or bad? Just asking because it's the law...

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:548


11/15/2018 10:18 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/15/2018 9:07 PM
Okay. Can I see your payment records good or bad? Just asking because it's the law...




If I run for the board and you live here and you want to know if I am current, absolutely.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:55


11/16/2018 3:17 AM  
North Carolina Debt Collection Act states:

§ 75-53. Unreasonable publication.
No debt collector shall unreasonably publicize information regarding a consumer's debt. Such
unreasonable publication includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(1) Any communication with any person other than the debtor or his attorney,
except:
a. To designated third parties with the written permission of the debtor or
his attorney.

HOA dues are covered under this Act.

Regardless of what the governing documents say, State and Federal laws hold higher ground. The Board would be releasing private information to you and the debtor could sue the HOA for releasing that information.

I hope your demand letter gets you no response. If it does, then the Board is not upholding their fiduciary responsibility.

How about running for the Board during the next election?

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8079


11/16/2018 5:17 AM  
Remember what you demand to ask of others they can ask of you. I don't care if you have the best payment record on earth. It doesn't matter according to you. Well then why does someone have to know this and do it behind your back and make it public without your consent? This is what your asking the HOA to do when you want the information of other owners.

Guess what? It may not matter if this person doesn't pay their dues or held them out of "protest". Many HOA's have it that you lose your vote if your not in good standing. Some HOA's don't have that caveat. Doesn't mean someone can't run. They just can't vote for themselves.

I think it's a personal issue to know about financials. You don't know what the context of why money is owed. Who says I didn't forget that month? Who says it's because I hate living in a HOA and don't want to pay them a dime? IF it's the first thing, it's a mistake but still shows up on my record. If it's the latter, most people will know that attitude is what you have.

Former HOA President
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/16/2018 5:25 AM  
PatJ1, it's like people don't even read before posting...

I know state law is higher than governing documents. The law I quoted above is state law, NOT governing documents.
Also, this person has NOT been sent to collections, so the law you cited is irrelevant since there is no debt collector in this matter.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:55


11/16/2018 5:31 AM  
Oh, I've read more than you know.

The debt collector is the HOA. Doesn't have to be a collection agency.

Go ahead with hire an attorney and let us know how that works out for you.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/16/2018 5:57 AM  
The HOA has not begun collections on this person. Our management company has an official collections policy, but they only begin it if the Board agrees to begin it, and they haven't.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/16/2018 5:57 AM  
The HOA has not begun collections on this person. Our management company has an official collections policy, but they only begin it if the Board agrees to begin it, and they haven't.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:692


11/16/2018 6:40 AM  
Posted By PatJ1 on 11/16/2018 3:17 AM
North Carolina Debt Collection Act states:

§ 75-53. Unreasonable publication.
No debt collector shall unreasonably publicize information regarding a consumer's debt. Such
unreasonable publication includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(1) Any communication with any person other than the debtor or his attorney,
except:
a. To designated third parties with the written permission of the debtor or
his attorney.

HOA dues are covered under this Act.

Regardless of what the governing documents say, State and Federal laws hold higher ground. The Board would be releasing private information to you and the debtor could sue the HOA for releasing that information.

I hope your demand letter gets you no response. If it does, then the Board is not upholding their fiduciary responsibility.

How about running for the Board during the next election?




The HOA is NOT a debt collector and is NOT covered by quoted legislation.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:692


11/16/2018 6:42 AM  
ps.

the debt collector the HOA 'hires' to collect the debt is covered
AugustinD


Posts:1571


11/16/2018 6:52 AM  
Jeremy, I agree with your interpretation. Ordinarily I would prioritize the privacy of members. But the North Carolina statute you quote seems clear. I can understand the statute's purpose. Geno says it is the same in Florida. Plus I see your point about not wanting a HOA member in arrears on the board. I also think your demand letter is fine. Two comments:

-- Does your HOA lien members who owe assessments? If so, the lien may be public record at the county clerk's. This could save you the trouble of going to court.

-- Campaign season at HOAs can get nasty. Be ready for the Board to publicize all manner of distortions about you. Such publication may not be entirely legal, but fighting this will be hard.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


11/16/2018 6:57 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 11/16/2018 6:52 AM
Jeremy, I agree with your interpretation. Ordinarily I would prioritize the privacy of members. But the North Carolina statute you quote seems clear. I can understand the statute's purpose. Geno says it is the same in Florida. Plus I see your point about not wanting a HOA member in arrears on the board. I also think your demand letter is fine. Two comments:

-- Does your HOA lien members who owe assessments? If so, the lien may be public record at the county clerk's. This could save you the trouble of going to court.

-- Campaign season at HOAs can get nasty. Be ready for the Board to publicize all manner of distortions about you. Such publication may not be entirely legal, but fighting this will be hard.




We have the ability to put liens on past due lots, but never have. It's a small HOA of 40-50 houses, and everybody has always paid except this 1 individual that's now 11 months late.

We had to pull teeth just to even get 5 people to volunteer to be board members. Nobody actually wants to do it, nobody will be campaigning lol.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:55


11/16/2018 7:12 AM  
Posted By RoyalP on 11/16/2018 6:42 AM
ps.

the debt collector the HOA 'hires' to collect the debt is covered




This information is available on many websites.

The North Carolina Debt Collection Act

North Carolina's own fair debt collection statute—the NCDCA—is similar to the FDCPA in some respects. Like the FDCPA, Association Dues are likely to be considered "consumer debts" under the NCDCA so long as the property in question was purchased by an owner who is a natural person for family or household purposes. Critically, however, unlike the FDCPA, a "debt collector" under the NCDCA is any person engaging in debt collection from a consumer, not just persons who collect debts on behalf of others. Consequently, the NCDCA applies to both Associations and their property managers in their routine collection of delinquent Dues from a consumer.

The NCDCA prohibits debt collectors, such as Associations and their property managers, from using threats, coercion, harassment, unreasonable publication, deceptive representations, and unconscionable means when collecting consumer debts. A list of all actions prohibited by the NCDCA is beyond the scope of this article, but some examples include:

Communicating the existence or details of the debt to third parties who are not authorized by law or the written permission of a debtor to receive such communications;

Associations and property managers that violate the NCDCA may be liable for three times a debtor's actual damages sustained as a result of a violation (so-called "treble damages"), civil penalties up to $4,000 for each violation, and, in some circumstances, the debtor's reasonable attorneys' fees.

Entire article can be found here: https://www.wardandsmith.com/articles/what-community-associations-in-north-carolina-need-to-know-about-fair-debt-collection

Also a good read from the Federal law: https://blog.hignell.com/hoa-management/what-not-to-do-when-collecting-hoa-fees



Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:692


11/16/2018 9:04 AM  
I stand re-educated.

NigelB
(Texas)

Posts:252


11/16/2018 8:22 PM  
Posted By SheliaH on 11/15/2018 5:51 PM
This again??? Look, it is NONE of your business as to which house is delinquent.





What you say might be true - but on the other hand it might not be true.

The ability of a member of the association to receive information from the association concerning delinquencies is totally dependent on the governing documents of the association and any State law governing the release of such material. The delinquent member might have a privacy right, but on the other hand the member of the association might also have a right to that information. It all depends on State law and the associations governing docs and policies.
JoyceR2
(Virginia)

Posts:149


11/16/2018 9:28 PM  
Know nothing about NC HOA laws but below is some VA HOA info regarding Information Request which is simply to say it is not a narrow subject:
There are five different statutes that address a right to inspect and copy company records.
1. Virginia Condominium Act. A unit owner in good standing has the right to examine and
copy association records “so long as the request is for a proper purpose related to his membership in the unit owners’ association, and not for pecuniary gain or commercial solicitation.” This statute was applied in a case in which the Virginia Supreme Court permitted a unit owner to inspect and copy salary information which identified the precise compensation paid to certain employees. Generally, an association can withhold records relating to
• Personnel matters;
• Contracts, leases, and other commercial transactions to purchase or provide goods or services, currently in or under negotiation;
• Pending or probable litigation.
• Matters involving state or local administrative or other formal proceedings before a government tribunal for enforcement of the condominium instruments or rules and regulations promulgated by the executive organ;
• Communications with legal counsel;
• Disclosure of information in violation of law;
• Meeting minutes or other confidential records of an executive session;
• Documentation compiled for consideration by the executive organ in executive session; or
• Individual unit owner or member files.
2. Virginia Property Owners Association Act. A member in good standing can examine and copy certain HOA records “so long as the request is for a proper purpose related to his membership in the association.” This right is limited similarly as set forth in the Virginia Condominium Act.
3. Virginia Stock Corporation Act. A shareholder of a corporation is entitled to inspect and copy certain records of the corporation. However, this right is limited to when
• The shareholder has been a shareholder for at least six months immediately preceding the shareholder’s demand or is the holder of record or beneficial owner of at least five percent of all of the outstanding shares;
• The shareholder’s demand is made in good faith and for a proper purpose;
• The shareholder describes with reasonable particularity the shareholder’s purpose and the records the shareholder desires to inspect; and
• The records are directly connected with the shareholder’s purpose.
4. Virginia Nonstock Corporation Act. Under this act, a member is entitled to inspect and copy certain records of the corporation. However, this right is limited to when
• She has been a member of record for at least six months immediately preceding the demand;
• The demand is made in good faith and for a proper purpose;
• She describes with reasonable particularity his purpose and the records to inspect; and
• The records are directly connected with the purpose.
5. Virginia Limited Liability Act. Finally, under this Act, a member has the right, upon reasonable request, to inspect and copy any of the limited liability company records required to be maintained by the Act. However, even that right is qualified. If the information demanded is unreasonable or otherwise improper under the circumstances, inspection can be limited. Further, access can be limited by the company’s operating agreement.
Depending upon the entity, access to records for inspection and copying can be confusing. Generally, we would expect a court to rule expansively on a member or shareholder’s right to access. Make sure your company, homeowner’s association, or condominium association is well advised on its obligations to maintain records and provide access to those records.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4168


11/16/2018 11:38 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 11/15/2018 5:51 PM
At the risk of being contrarian, I interpret the language, "... shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot," to mean ANY lot owner may see a statment of unpaid assessments and other charges against ANY lot.

That's the law in Florida and that's the way I think it should be everywhere. So maybe I'm looking at it from the POV of the way I want it to be. But maybe not. If it was meant to be restricted to a lot owner's OWN statement of unpaid assessments it would have said that explicitly. I don't think it's ambiguous at all.


I agree ...
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


12/17/2018 4:12 PM  
My demand letter I sent our management company was returned to me as undeliverable, even though the address I sent to is 100% correct.

The management company is playing games and evading this.

I called them and their call center literally laughed at me on the phone, told me good luck, and hung up on me.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3511


12/17/2018 5:15 PM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 11/15/2018 7:36 AM
I'm a resident and the HOA management company is refusing to tell me which 1 house has unpaid dues (They were due January 2018 and they are still unpaid as of November 2018)

I'm in North Carolina, and the North Carolina Planned Community Act law says:

Chapter 47F-3-118. Association records
"(b) The association, upon written request, shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot. The statement shall be furnished within 10 business days after receipt of the request and is binding on the association, the executive board, and every lot owner. "

It says "shall furnish to a lot owner or the lot owner's authorized agents a statement setting forth the amount of unpaid assessments and other charges against a lot."

I am a lot owner. The last words there say "against a lot". Not "Against your lot only".

Is the mangement company correct, or am I correct?



Sorry, in speaking with an HOA attorney friend of mine, the reference is to your lot and your lot only. Sorry

Been there, Done that
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:692


12/17/2018 7:29 PM  
..... (They were due January 2018 and they are still unpaid as of November 2018) .....


The issue is: ? was the lien recorded ?

if so, you simply use the 'search for deeds' function on your county's web site to verify the lot in question
(a matter of public records)

if not, you have bigger issues re: collection of assessments
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


12/18/2018 5:05 AM  
Our HOA has not placed a lien on anyone for unpaid dues (We only have the 1 house with unpaid dues, but they are a board member and won't vote to put a lien on himself)
SueW6
(Michigan)

Posts:489


12/18/2018 7:38 AM  
Isn’t the real issue that the OP is concerned that a member not in “good-standing” is sitting on the board?

The bylaws should state the qualifications of a board member - boilerplate list is to be a member in good standing.

THAT is your issue. The MC or Treasurer should have their eye on this qualification at all times.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


12/18/2018 7:40 AM  
Posted By SueW6 on 12/18/2018 7:38 AM
Isn’t the real issue that the OP is concerned that a member not in “good-standing” is sitting on the board?

The bylaws should state the qualifications of a board member - boilerplate list is to be a member in good standing.

THAT is your issue. The MC or Treasurer should have their eye on this qualification at all times.




Our bylaws allow board members to be past due on their dues
But if they are, it gives the board the power to remove the member without a community vote.
But the board isn't willing to do that...
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


12/18/2018 7:40 AM  
And we haven't had a community meeting in over 1 year now... even though our bylaws state a meeting is required in the 3rd quarter of the year.
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:359


12/18/2018 9:22 AM  
Jeremy, most association documents I have seen describe a process for calling a Special Meeting. The threshold is often surprisingly low--10% of the association members petition the Board, etc.

If your documents contain such a process, invoke it. The meeting must have a specific stated purpose, such as recalling members of the Board and electing replacements, or holding a meeting to approve X, Y, or Z, etc.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:122


12/18/2018 10:00 AM  
Posted By BillH10 on 12/18/2018 9:22 AM
Jeremy, most association documents I have seen describe a process for calling a Special Meeting. The threshold is often surprisingly low--10% of the association members petition the Board, etc.

If your documents contain such a process, invoke it. The meeting must have a specific stated purpose, such as recalling members of the Board and electing replacements, or holding a meeting to approve X, Y, or Z, etc.




Yes our documents do allow for that with a 10% of houses signing petition. We have 49 houses so only need 5 to sign to call special meeting.

Problem is, we've always had trouble getting volunteers to be on the board. I don't think anybody else wants to do it.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16287


12/18/2018 6:57 PM  
If individuals are not willing to serve, members are stuck with those who are willing.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6350


12/18/2018 10:23 PM  
I entirely agree with Tim. You've been advise many times, I believe, Jeremy. I truly sympathize with you if you're able to get a coalition to oust the current Board.
ND
(PA)

Posts:283


12/19/2018 6:59 AM  
Jeremy,

My suggested options for you would be:

1) Move . . . and if going to another HOA or if you have neighbors close by, change how your operate such that you don't end up in a similar situation.
2) Learn to be satisfied with whatever the current BOD/MC does or doesn't do, only calling them out for significant issues or missteps that put you, your neighbors, or your HOA at risk of issues to financial health, safety, health, and/or welfare.
3) Make amends with your immediate neighbor, other neighbors, BOD, and MC and learn how to work with them instead of against them.

Your current living situation could be relatively permanent . . . in which case constantly being at battle with your neighbors is either something that you enjoy doing (doubtful) or something that causes you unnecessary and avoidable angst.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2892


12/19/2018 1:12 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 12/18/2018 6:57 PM
If individuals are not willing to serve, members are stuck with those who are willing.

It certainly can get pretty bad that way, too. We're coming off of 2 years with a functionally illiterate president and a wannabe dictator sandwiched in between for 5 months. Things had to get really, really bad in order to generate enough interest from the homeowners to run for the board in January so that an attempt may be made to right the ship. We were (a) stuck with a bad board because not enough competent owners wanted to serve, and (b) stuck with an awful president because none of the other board members wanted the job.
LisaD6
(Connecticut)

Posts:53


01/02/2019 9:26 PM  
To know exactly who not legal. to know if there is a unit owner who is not paying yes you can know. IF you were in the situation of not paying your fees would you want it to be out there it is you not paying the fees. And someone letting all the association know it is you not paying. I doubt it.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > HOA Management company refusing to say which houses have unpaid dues



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement