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Subject: HOA wants to evict roomates
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JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/03/2018 7:43 AM  
Georgia HOA wants my roommates evicted, and I believe they do it because one of them is black.
I leave in a small neighborhood, about 60 houses, and have a lease to own contract with my best friend who owns the house and also lives in the same neighborhood.
I have the lease since 2010 and have about 80k in equity.
The HOA, AFTER my roommates moved in this year in February, add some new rules to the HOA covenant that subleasing is not allowed, and leasing has to be approved.
I was grandfathered in for the lease, but they want my roommates OUT. They are very good friends and they would have nowhere to go in such a short time.
Of course, I can not prove that they only do that because of race but I do not see another reason.
House owners are in fact allowed to have roommates, just because I lease the house I do not? I really do not understand that.
Anyway, long story short, can someone please tell me if the HOA, in fact, has the power to evict my roommates and or MYSELF( and my wife)?
And what is the procedure that they would have to take to get to that point? Will the police come to get me out? Can I get my things?
I have the contracts available for review in case someone could take the time to please help me out?
I lived in this neighborhood for 8 years now, never had any problems or was a disturbance, now suddenly living here is very uncomfortable and causes sleepless nights.
I would really appreciate any suggestions you might have. I know I will have to get a lawyer soon but currently not able financially, I just filed Chapter seven bankruptcy.

Thank you for reading this. Any help appreciated.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/03/2018 8:24 AM  
How do you have 80K of equity in a home you LEASE? If you are in a lease, you are NOT a HOA member. Your landlord/Friend is a member. They are the one of which the HOA holds their feet down to the ground on their tenants issues. The HOA can't evict anyone. The owner is the one who does it. It has to be written in the lease agreement that violating the HOA's rules constitutes reasons to cancel the lease.

You are putting your own ASSUMPTIONS on why they want your roommate out. Your the one choosing it to be the color of their skin. There are plenty of other reasons the HOA doesn't want your roommate situation. It most likely has nothing to do with their skin color you assigned as the reason. How about them apples?

So your landlord is the actual HOA member not you if your in a lease. You have to work through them with the HOA. The other option is to buy the house and become a member yourself. If you do, then you will be the one who has to enforce the HOA's rules.

Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:1141


11/03/2018 10:00 AM  
Posted By JulesV on 11/03/2018 7:43 AM

The HOA, AFTER my roommates moved in this year in February, add some new rules to the HOA covenant that subleasing is not allowed, and leasing has to be approved.


I need some clarification. Maybe other readers do, too.

What do the official covenants say about leasing one's home? If you do not have a copy, ask the management for one. Alternatively typically HOA covenants are on file with the county clerk. You can phone the county clerk and see if they can help. Usually they are. It's their job to help members of the public with official land documents, including typically covenants.

Have the covenants been amended by a vote of the members? Or did the Board simply institute this new rule about subleasing?
JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/03/2018 11:42 AM  
The house owner is my best friend, there are no assumptions and he has no intentions to evict me. The problem solely lies on the HOA.
JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/03/2018 11:49 AM  
Posted By JulesV on 11/03/2018 11:42 AM
The house owner is my best friend, there are no assumptions and he has no intentions to evict me. The problem solely lies on the HOA.




here we go, its not the best ocr scan:
Thank you very much for all your replies.


The Declaration is hereby amended by adding a new Exhibit “C” Section 2(q), entitled
to read as follows:
(q). ln order to protect the equity of the individual Owners of
Units, to carry out the purpose for which the Association was formed by
preserving the character of the Community as a homogenous residential
neighborhood of predominantly owner-occupied homes and by preventing the
Community from assuming the character of a renter-occupied neighborhood,
leasing of Units shall he governed by the restrictions imposed by this Section.
Except as provided herein, the leasing of Units shall be prohibited. The Board
shall have the power to make and enforce reasonable rules and regulations and to
fine, in accordance with this Amendment, the Declaration and By-Laws, in order
to enforce the provisions of this Section.

(A) means the regular, exclusive occupancy of a Unit
by any Person(s) other than the Owner for which the Owner received any
consideration or benefit, including, but not limited to, a fee, rent, gratuity or
emolument. For purposes hereof the following shall not constitute leasing: (1)
occupancy of the Unit by a family member of an Owner; (2) occupancy of the
Unit by a roommate of an Owner-occupant; (3) occupancy of the Unit by one or
more wards if the Unit is owned by their legal guardian; or (4) occupancy of the
Unit by one or more beneficiaries of a trust if the Unit is owned in trust by the
trustee.
Grandfathered Unit means any Unit
being leased as of the Effective Date. Grandfathered Units may continue to be
leased until title to said Unit is conveyed to any Person or entity other than the
Person or entity holding record title as of the Effective Date and the tenant shall
comply with all regulations pertaining to the use of the Unit set forth in the
Declaration and any amendments thereto, the By-Laws and any rules and
regulations of the Association. All Owners of Grandfathered Units shall tile a
copy of the lease agreement in effect with the Board within thirty (30) days of the
Effective Date. If an Owner fails to provide a copy of the lease agreement in
effect to the Board within the thirty (30) day time period, the Unit shall lose its
Grandfathered Unit Status.
Each Owner desiring to lease a Unit shall submit
a request for a leasing permit to the Board of Directors. The Board of Directors
-4-



shall approve an Owner's request for a leasing permit and shall issue the same if
no more than six (6) of the Units in the community are leased.
If six (6) or more of the Units are leased, including Grandfathered Units that
are leased, no additional leasing permits shall be issued, except for hardship leasing
permits as provided below, until the number of leased Units, including
Grandfathered Units that are leased, falls below six (6) Units. Owners who have
been denied a leasing pennit shall be placed on a waiting list to be issued such a
permit. When the number of leased Units falls below six (6) Units, the Owner at the
top of the waiting list shall be issued a leasing permit and shall have ninety (90) days
to lease such Unit at which time if the Unit is not leased, the leasing permit shall be
revoked and the Owner shall automatically be placed at the bottom of the waiting
list. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein, the issuance of a hardship
leasing permit to an Owner shall not cause such Owner to be removed from the
Waiting list for a leasing permit.
Leasing permits are automatically revoked upon: (A) the sale or transfer of a
Unit to a third party (excluding sales or transfers to an Owners spouse); (B) the
failure of an Owner to lease such Owner's Unit within ninety (90) consecutive days
at any time atter the issuance of such leasing permit; or (C) the occupancy of the
Unit by the Owner.
If an Owner must lease such Owner's
Unit to avoid an undue hardship, the Owner shall apply to the Board in writing for a
hardship leasing permit. The Board may issue or deny requests for hardship leasing
pennits in its discretion after considering the following factors, which include, but
are not limited to: (A) the nature, degree and likely duration of the hardship; (B) the
harm, if any, which will result to the community if the hardship leasing pennit is
approved; (C) the number of hardship leasing permits which have been issued to
other Owners; (D) the Owner's role in causing the hardship or ability to cure the
hardship; and (E) whether previous hardship leasing permits have been issued to the
Owner.
A hardship hereunder shall include, but not be limited to, the following
situations: (A) an Owner dies and the Unit is being administered by the Owner’s
estate; (B) an Owner must relocate outside metropolitan Atlanta and cannot, within
six months from the date that the Unit was placed on the market, sell the Unit except
at a price below the current appraised market value, after making reasonable efforts
to do so; or (C) an Owner takes a leave of absence or temporarily relocates out of the
metropolitan Atlanta area and intends to return to reside in the Unit Within one year.
Hardship leasing permits shall be valid for a tenn not to exceed one (1) year.
Owners may reapply for additional hardship leasing permits at the expiration of a
hardship leasing permit in accordance with the procedures set forth herein.


Leasing authorized under this Section shall be
governed by the following provisions:
(A) Notice. Within ten (10) days after executing a lease
agreement for the lease of at Unit, the Owner shall provide the Board of Directors
with the following information: (l) a copy of the fully executed lease agreement;
(2) the name of the lessee and all other people occupying the Unit; (3) the phone
number of the lessee; (4) the Owner‘s address and telephone number other than at
the Unit; and (5) other such information as the Board may reasonably require.
(B) General. Units may be leased only in their entirety; rooms,
basements or fractions or portions of a Unit may not be leased without the prior
written approval of the Board of Directors. All leases shall be in writing. There
shall be no subleasing of Units or assignment of leases unless approved in writing
by the Board ot‘Directors. All leases must be for an initial term of at least one (1)
year, except with written approval by the Board of Directors, which shall not be
unreasonably withheld in cases of undue hardship. The Owner must provide the
lessee with copies of the Declaration, By-Laws, and the rules and regulations and
architectural standards of the Association, if any, and the lease shall provide that
the Owner has made available to the lessee copies of the Declaration, By-Laws,
and the Associations rules and regulations and architectural standards.
(C) Qoni,oh§._11:_e;l;ial3flity for Assessments. If a Unit is leased
or occupied in violation of this Section 2(q‘), then the Board of Directors shall be
authorized, in addition to all other available remedies, to terminate the lease and
occupancy, to suspend all voting rights and the right to use and enjoy the
Common Area of the Owner and any unauthorized tenants(s) or occupa_nt(s), and
to impose tines in accordance with this Declaration.
Each Owner covenants and agrees that any lease of a Unit shall contain
the following language and agrees that if such language is not expressly contained
therein, then such language shall he incorporated into the lease by existence of
this covenant, and the lessee, by occupancy of the Unit, agrees to the applicability
oi‘ this covenant and incorporation of the following language into the lease:
. Lessee shall abide by and comply
with all provisions of the Declaration, By-Laws, and rules and regulations and
architectural standards adopted pursuant thereto and shall control the conduct of
all other occupants and guests of the leased Unit in order to ensure such
compliance. The Owner agrees to cause all occupants of the Owner's to comply
with the Declaration, By-Laws, and the rules and regulations and architectural
standards adopted pursuant thereto and is responsible for all violations caused by
such occupants, notwithstanding the fact that such occupants of the Unit are fully
-5-



liable and may he sanctioned for any violation of the Declaration, By~L-aws and
mles and regulations and architectural standards adopted pursuant thereto.
In the event that the lessee or a person living with the lessee violates the
Declaration, By-Laws, or a rule or regulation for which a fine is imposed, notice
of the violation shall be given to the Owner and the lessee, and such fine may be
assessed against the lessee in accordance with the provisions contained herein. If
the tine is not paid by the lessee within the time period set by the Board of
Directors, the Owner shall pay the fine upon notice from the Association of the
lessee‘s failure to pay the fine. Unpaid fines shall constitute a lien against the
Unit.
Any violation of the Declaration, By-Laws or rules and regulations and
architectural standards adopted pursuant thereto by the lessee, any occupant, or
any guest of the lessee, is deemed to be a default under the terms of the lease and
authorizes the Owner to terminate the lease without liability and to evict the
lessee in accordance with Georgia law. The Owner hereby delegates and assigns
to the Association, acting through the Board, the power and authority of
enforcement against the lessee for breaches resulting from violations of the
Declaration, By-Laws or rules and regulations of the Association adopted
thereunder, including the power and authority to tenninate the lease without
liability upon such violation(s) and to evict the lessee and/or the occupant(s) as
attorney-in-fact on behalf and for the benefit of the Owner, in accordance with the
terms hereof, it being hereby agreed that in such instance the Association shall
have standing to terminate the lease and initiate dispossessory proceedings against
the lessee and/or the 0ccupant(s). In the event the Association proceeds to evict
the lessee and/or the occupant(s) ofa Unit, any costs, including attorneys fees and
court costs, associated with the eviction shall be an assessment and lien against
the Unit.
(2) [email protected];£~§[email protected] If
an Owner who is leasing such Owners Unit fails to pay any annual, special or
specific assessment or any other charge owed to the Association for a period of
more than thirty (30) days after it is due and payable, then the delinquent Owner
hereby consents to the assignment of any rent received from the lessee during the
period of delinquency, and, upon request by the Board of Directors, lessee shall
pay to the Association all unpaid annual, special and specific assessments and
other charges payable during and prior to the term of the lease and any other
period of occupancy by lessee. However, lessee need not make such payments to
the Association in excess of, or prior to the due dates for, monthly rental
payments unpaid at the time oi‘ the Board ot‘Director‘s request. All such
payments made by lessee shall reduce, by the same arnount, lessees obligation to
make monthly rental payments to lessor. if lessee fails to comply with the Board
of Director's request to pay assessments or other charges, lessee shall pay to the
Association all amounts authorized under the Declaration as if lessee were an
-7-



Owner. The above provision shall not be construed to release the Owner from
any obligation, including the obligation for assessments, for which such Owner
would otherwise be responsible.
(3) Rig_lz_t_tp_Q;n;;ng9n_ The Owner transfers and
assigns to the lessee, for the term of the lease, any and all rights and privileges
that the Owner has to use the Common Areas.
(v) lixemgtions. This Section shall not apply to any leasing transaction
entered into by the Association or an institutional holder of any first mortgage on
a Unit who becomes the Owner of a Unit through foreclosure or any other means
pursuant to the satislaction of the indebtedness secured by such first mortgage.
9.
, .
The Declaration is hereby amended by adding a new Exhibit “C’ Section 2(r), entitled
Tiansre_n_t_R§nta_l_s” to read as follows:
(r) Transient Rentals. Under no circumstances shall a Unit be leased, rented
or used for short-term transient or hotel purposes or rented through short-term
intemet rental services, including, without limitation, VRBO, Airbnb, HomeAway,
or such other similar rental services.
10.
The Declaration is hereby amended by adding a new Article V, Section 5.4 entitled
Garbage Pick-Up” to read as follows:
Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Association
reserves the right, but is not under the obligation, to contract with a private trash
removal company to pick up all usual and customary household trash on a regular
basis for the benefit of all Owners and Occupants within the Community. All
charges for usual and customary trash collection shall be assessed to each Unit
equally as part of the general assessment in accordance with Section 8.3 hereof.
While the removal of normal household trash will be covered by any such
contract, additional charges may be incurred for the removal of used appliances or
other large items. Any such additional charges incurred by the Association may
be Specifically Assessed against the applicable Unit pursuant to Section 8.6
hereof. lfa Unit Ovmer, for any reason, refuses trash collection service provided
by the Association, such Owner shall nevertheless still be obligated to pay the full
general assessment. Trash and recycling receptacles shall be placed at the curb no
earlier than 5:00 p.m. the day before pick up and shall be removed Within twenty-
four (24) hours. All Community trash removal and recycling shall be subject to
such further rules and regulations as the Board may adopt, including Without
-3-



limitation, the designation of a particular trash pick-up day throughout the entire
or a portion of the Community.
ll.
The By-Laws are hereby amended by adding a new Paragraph IV, Section l(d) entitled
“Use of Technology” to read as follows:
( d) Due to the ongoing development of new technologies and
corresponding changes in business practices, to the extent permitted by law now
or in the future, any notice required to be sent or received by the Board of
Directors or any signature, vote, consent or approval required to be obtained by
the Board of Directors pursuant to the By-Laws may be accomplished using the
most advanced technology available at the time if such use is a generally accepted
business practice. Use of technology would include, without limitation, the
internet. electronic mail transmissions and facsimile transmissions. Any
requirement for a signature under these By-Laws maybe satisfied by a secure
electronic signature, which is a signature by electronic or digital method executed
or adopted by a party with the intent to be bound by said signature and which is
unique to the person using it. In order to provide ample time for directors to take
action by written consent and/or be notified of upcoming meetings, notices given
to the Board of Directors by electronic mail or facsimile transmissions must be
transmitted at least seven (7) days before a response is due or before a time
specified for the meeting being noticed.
12.
Unless othervwise defined herein, the capitalized words used in this Amendment shall
have the same meaning as set forth in the Declaration.
13.
This Amendment shall be effective only upon being recorded in the records of the Clerk
of Superior Court of Forsyth County, Georgia and shall be enforceable against the current Owner
of any Unit subject to the Declaration.
14.
Except as herein modified, the Declaration shall remain in full force and effect.
_ 9 .




MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/03/2018 4:08 PM  
So your not the owner nor a member of the HOA? How then does this effect your or your roommate? It sounds like your friend is subject to these rules and thus enforcing them on you and your roommate...

Former HOA President
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5852


11/03/2018 4:31 PM  
Sorry, not time to read all the verbiage. does it say the board can evict your roommate ...or you? that would be very unusual. as Melissa notes, only the Owner should be contacted by the HOA board and unless really weird covenants are in place, only the Owner can evict any of you.

But you say you've been grandfathered in, so you're in a good position and the board cannot ask your owner evict you.

Just skimming, it appears you may have a roommate. So why would your owner evict your roommate? A2 says roommates are OK.

MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/03/2018 11:05 PM  
The HOA can't evict a tenant unless the HOA is the owner of the property that is being leased. (A VERY RARE occurrence). If anything, your friend is guilty of sub-leasing. They have a lease with you and then you have an agreement with a roommate. Which I am sure you have some kind of lease agreement with to pay rent etc...

So have to say your worried because you and your friends ARE guilty of the very reasons the HOA is changing the rules. It also sounds like you want to use the color of the skin of your room mate to make this a racist thing to defend your violation. What better way to deflect a situation than make everyone else look bad?

Just going to call it as I see it. Your NOT a HOA member. Proof is that you have a lease! Your friend is the actual Owner/HOA member. This rule change then puts you and your room mate in jeopardy of eviction because of the new HOA enforcement. Although your "Grandfathered" in. It doesn't mean your not guilty of sub-leasing because of the agreement with your room mate. Hence your room mate is subject to eviction via your friend (The HOA member) due to the sub-leasing situation you created... Did I get this right with the bouncing ball?

Former HOA President
JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/04/2018 12:41 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/03/2018 11:05 PM
The HOA can't evict a tenant unless the HOA is the owner of the property that is being leased. (A VERY RARE occurrence). If anything, your friend is guilty of sub-leasing. They have a lease with you and then you have an agreement with a roommate. Which I am sure you have some kind of lease agreement with to pay rent etc...

So have to say your worried because you and your friends ARE guilty of the very reasons the HOA is changing the rules. It also sounds like you want to use the color of the skin of your room mate to make this a racist thing to defend your violation. What better way to deflect a situation than make everyone else look bad?

Just going to call it as I see it. Your NOT a HOA member. Proof is that you have a lease! Your friend is the actual Owner/HOA member. This rule change then puts you and your roommate in jeopardy of eviction because of the new HOA enforcement. Although your "Grandfathered" in. It doesn't mean your not guilty of sub-leasing because of the agreement with your room mate. Hence your room mate is subject to eviction via your friend (The HOA member) due to the sub-leasing situation you created... Did I get this right with the bouncing ball?




You got it. I never said I was a member, and yes, my friend, the landlord has all the hassle. But, if I would own the place, it is perfectly fine for me to have roommates, so what is the big problem, maybe you can enlighten me?

I lived here for over eight years, I am pretty sure I know exactly why they changed the rules just now. I do not believe in coincidences. Why wait that long?
All I wanted to know is if the HOA can FORCE my landlord (the HOA member), to evict them and or maybe myself?
By force, I mean put a lien on the house or some other mechanism for him to fold.

But thank you for your great reply.


JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7820


11/04/2018 12:49 PM  
Jules

You are a renter and maybe the association had rules about rentals all along but were not enforcing them. Maybe you sub-renting raised the red flag. Maybe they changed rental rules especially if they felt you were turning the home into a quasi rooming house which sounds like you might have done.
JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/04/2018 1:44 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/04/2018 12:49 PM
Jules

You are a renter and maybe the association had rules about rentals all along but were not enforcing them. Maybe you sub-renting raised the red flag. Maybe they changed rental rules especially if they felt you were turning the home into a quasi rooming house which sounds like you might have done.




Again, what is the difference to have two roommates or eight family members living in the same house....
We are all older, 40+, nobody ever does anything outside the house, everybody working mainly all day, I just don't get the issue.

Anyway, I got your point, thanks.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1263


11/04/2018 8:30 PM  
Covenant changes would need to be approved by the owners, did the owner of your home agree? If not, this page has a discussion that starts with the verbiage below but includes some potential caveats:
https://www.luederlaw.com/restricting-leasing-through-amendment/

Section 44-5-60 of the Georgia Code states that no change in covenants that imposes a greater restriction on the use of property will be enforced unless agreed to in writing by the owner of the affected property. For instance, if a community passes an amendment to restrict the number of properties that may be leased, Code Section 44-5-60 could potentially be asserted that the leasing restriction will not be enforceable against any owner who rejects the amendment because such owner did not agree to the amendment in writing.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/04/2018 10:48 PM  
The HOA can't lien but for unpaid dues. They can fine your landlord for not obeying the rules. Which if the fines are large enough, then they may decide to evict you. The HOA could restrict the owner from use of amenities which sometimes can extend to those they rent to. If the owner is not allowed to use the amenities, then why can their renter?

Why can't you have roommates versus a family of 8? 1st those roommates PAY money and should have a rental agreement/lease to be there. A family doesn't have a lease with their kids or spouse... A tenant is different than a family member living in a home.

This situation isn't far from a "Frat house". Not saying your house is a Frat house. It is just similar to how one operates. Those are also the types of housing arrangements HOA's are against. The flow of traffic and lack of control the main reasons. It is why HOA's have rules against type of situations you are in.



Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:1141


11/05/2018 6:04 AM  
Jules, a few things:

-- DouglasK1's quotation is something to put in your notes, in bold and underlined. In case the HOA takes the owner of your home to court.

-- You wrote the HOA amended the Declaration (a.k.a. "covenants") around February 2018 to prohibit subleasing unless a member has the board's permission. Then you quote at length the particular amendment. Can you please state whether a vote of the members took place to implement this amendment?

-- Have you asked the owner of your home to ask the board for permission for you to sublease? The latter is not obvious to me.

-- You say the HOA wants your subleasing roommates out, and you think it may be because of your roommates' race. I can absolutely believe this is so. But as you note, and unless there is other evidence, then I think this is not an avenue you can pursue using the federal and state laws on housing. Other evidence would be something like the Board uses racial epithets when talking with others, or tolerates one resident using racial epithets against another resident.

-- You could consider tearing up the sublease you have and informing the owner and the HOA there is no longer a sublease. Whatever financial arrangements you make with these roommates is then arguably not a sublease. If the HOA took the owner of your homr to court, then he or she tells the court there is no sublease. Your friends are roommates. They pitch in when they can with the costs of upkeep of the home. But they are not required to do so.

-- It sounds like you understand that a lot of this hinges on what the owner of the home wants to do. I think the HOA is supposed to be addressing the owner and not you about this situation.

-- The police cannot and will not evict you over an internal HOA dispute.



GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:750


11/05/2018 7:50 AM  
Augustin,

Certainly you aren’t recommending lying about the rental status?
TimM11


Posts:212


11/05/2018 10:53 AM  
George, how would it be a lie?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:750


11/05/2018 11:36 AM  
Well, if you intentionally tear up a contract and then say something that isn’t true ....?
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:103


11/05/2018 2:17 PM  
HOAs that attempt to restrict who resides in a particular house are overreaching, and this is exactly the sort of thing that makes people hate HOAs in general. Are they going to knock on every door and demand the name, relationship, and DNA profile of every person residing there?

The language in the amendment is grotesque. To preserve a "homogeneous" neighborhood and avoid the "characteristics of a rental" - at best they are snobs who think renters are subhuman and not good enough walk amongst them. At worst, I do think you have a case for racial profiling and I'd ask for clarification on just what they mean by "homogeneous".

OP I think you are on to something. Amending the governing documents is an elaborate process and to go to all that trouble - and expense, since attorneys are involved - to target one group of people is an abuse of power and a waste of the HOAs money.

Talk to a lawyer. I think you could at least credibly argue the appearance of a Fair Housing Act violation.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/05/2018 3:34 PM  
Woooo People. Let's jump off the "Race" claims on this one. The issue is that the HOA voted in new rules about sub-leasing. Why? Because they probably saw the situation where this was happening and did not like it. Wasn't the color of one's skin that set them off. Last time I check people of color, sexual orientation, or are transgender surely have the right to rent. The HOA is just saying they don't want Sub-leasing as it tends to attract more traffic and appearance of "frat" house.

Former HOA President
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3107


11/05/2018 5:11 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/05/2018 3:34 PM
Woooo People. Let's jump off the "Race" claims on this one. The issue is that the HOA voted in new rules about sub-leasing. Why? Because they probably saw the situation where this was happening and did not like it. Wasn't the color of one's skin that set them off. Last time I check people of color, sexual orientation, or are transgender surely have the right to rent. The HOA is just saying they don't want Sub-leasing as it tends to attract more traffic and appearance of "frat" house.



You've been on the forum long enough to know that you just don't create rules for this sort of thing, but you have to amend the CCRs.
AugustinD


Posts:1141


11/05/2018 5:28 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/05/2018 3:34 PM
Let's jump off the "Race" claims on this one.


You do not know the reason is not race. However my counsel stands: No sure proof, and lot of it, then leave this issue alone.
AugustinD


Posts:1141


11/05/2018 5:31 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/05/2018 7:50 AM
Augustin, Certainly you aren’t recommending lying about the rental status?


George, if she tears up the lease, there is no rental agreement. Jules takes the risk that these people suddenly split, leaving her or him without rental income.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/08/2018 6:55 AM  
The OP is NOT, repeat NOT, a 'renter' nor a 'leaser'.

He is a 'contract sale' purchaser.

In effect, the mortgagor (seller) is accepting payments w/o turning over title until paid in full.

The mortgagee (buyer) may, or may not, be permitted to have room-mates.



Let the attorneys order new cars
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3105


11/08/2018 8:41 AM  
TIP: Hope you filed your contract-to-own with the registry of deeds to make it public record. If not the seller could sell it to someone else and your out of luck. Or the seller could die and the heirs could sell it out from under you not having a copy of the contract, thinking its fraud, etc... and because its not public knowledge.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:62


11/08/2018 9:31 AM  
Posted By RoyalP on 11/08/2018 6:55 AM
The OP is NOT, repeat NOT, a 'renter' nor a 'leaser'.

He is a 'contract sale' purchaser.

In effect, the mortgagor (seller) is accepting payments w/o turning over title until paid in full.

The mortgagee (buyer) may, or may not, be permitted to have room-mates.



Let the attorneys order new cars




The OP is paying money to live in property owned by someone else, which sure sounds like a rental situation to me. He is not a homeowner until the sale closes and his name is on the title, and until then does not have the rights and obligations of a homeowner.

By the by, it's not unusual in my area to have rental restrictions in CC&Rs that prohibit all sorts of things, such as no short-term rentals (less than six months), no hotel or "corporate" style rentals, and **no subleasing**. I think it may be a legal thing. The CC&Rs give the homeowner the right to lease the unit. However, a tenant is not a homeowner and does not have the same rights as a homeowner. An owner cannot pass to the tenant the right to, for instance, attend board meetings or inspect the books. Why is leasing the unit any different?



RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/08/2018 9:40 AM  
from the OP:

..... and have a lease to own contract .....


poor/improper terminology, probably actually is: a 'contract sale', which is an 'iron clad' method of eventual ownership



steve,

good advice re: recording
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/08/2018 2:27 PM  
Steve,

'google' deed in trust


When used for a contract sale (a/k/a rent to own):

This document works hand-in-hand with a promissory note to "legalize" the mortgage and give your lender the right to foreclose the property without lengthy legalities if you default on your mortgage payments.



...sooo the purchaser should ensure recording said deed
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3107


11/08/2018 2:42 PM  
Googled "deed in trust" and got nothing.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/08/2018 3:28 PM  
The house we foreclosed on was set up as a "Rent to own" situation. The "renter" was paying the owner additional monies to purchase the home with their rent. However, the owner actually had a 2nd mortgage. They were taking the "renter" money to pay off their 2nd mortgage. Thus they owned the 1st mortgage to the house. So the Renter put themselves in a bad situation. (Not knowingly). See the Renter could have essentially paid off the owner's 2nd mortgage but yet never receive the actual title as they had it under the 1st mortgage. Kind of a "switch and bait' scheme.

Mind you the owners stopped paying their dues for several years. The previous board had liens on it. I decided it was time to foreclose on those liens after that many years. All the owner had to do was pay the $2K+ they owed us. Instead they evicted their "renter" and then tried to make them pay the dues they owed! The owner then put another renter in while we were foreclosing. Again they found out what was going on and left.

We ended up foreclosing on the home. The "Renter" then took that owner to court and sued them for several thousands of dollars. It was for their extra money and breach of contract I believe. I had to testify on the HOA's behalf on our part of the foreclosure and responsibilities etc... The Renter ended up winning their case.

So my advice is to be very careful entering a lease to own situation. Make sure it's not you paying off a 2nd mortgage. You are going to get the title in a certain time frame. Your not necessarily inheriting "Equity" into that house. It's most likely the owner is using that equity for their own use.

This situation is a sub-lease situation with the room-mate. It's got nothing to do with the color of that roommate. It has everything to do with the # of people living in that home of which are not owners but renters. HOA's don't like renters and the issues they cause. So still not calling this the HOA wants to kick someone out due to race. It's more they don't want sub-leasing situations with multiple room mates.

Former HOA President
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3105


11/08/2018 5:26 PM  
Posted By RoyalP on 11/08/2018 2:27 PM
Steve, 'google' deed in trust


Sure.

Doesn't matter what its called, as long as its publicly recorded.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5852


11/08/2018 6:47 PM  
I think Steve's right & RoyP too. I think he meant Deed of Trust, but what it's called isn't th main point.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/08/2018 7:04 PM  
oops

Deed OF Trust

RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/08/2018 7:06 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 11/08/2018 2:42 PM
Googled "deed in trust" and got nothing.




try 'bing'

I use the term 'google' as a generic 'search'.


RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/08/2018 7:07 PM  
https://www.bing.com/search?q=deed+in+trust&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=EUPP_CMDTDFJS
JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/10/2018 6:23 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 11/05/2018 6:04 AM
Jules, a few things:

-- DouglasK1's quotation is something to put in your notes, in bold and underlined. In case the HOA takes the owner of your home to court.

-- You wrote the HOA amended the Declaration (a.k.a. "covenants") around February 2018 to prohibit subleasing unless a member has the board's permission. Then you quote at length the particular amendment. Can you please state whether a vote of the members took place to implement this amendment?

-- Have you asked the owner of your home to ask the board for permission for you to sublease? The latter is not obvious to me.

-- You say the HOA wants your subleasing roommates out, and you think it may be because of your roommates' race. I can absolutely believe this is so. But as you note, and unless there is other evidence, then I think this is not an avenue you can pursue using the federal and state laws on housing. Other evidence would be something like the Board uses racial epithets when talking with others, or tolerates one resident using racial epithets against another resident.

-- You could consider tearing up the sublease you have and informing the owner and the HOA there is no longer a sublease. Whatever financial arrangements you make with these roommates is then arguably not a sublease. If the HOA took the owner of your homr to court, then he or she tells the court there is no sublease. Your friends are roommates. They pitch in when they can with the costs of upkeep of the home. But they are not required to do so.

-- It sounds like you understand that a lot of this hinges on what the owner of the home wants to do. I think the HOA is supposed to be addressing the owner and not you about this situation.

-- The police cannot and will not evict you over an internal HOA dispute.







Yes, they all voted for it In July I think and it has been accepted.
I have two good friends living with me, I never considered them to be Sublease or whatever the legal term is used.

The HOA now will FINE my friend, the homeowner $500, and then $25 each day after until my friends have moved out.
They have nowhere to go in such a short term before the holidays. most places want first and last rent, they can't afford that. I was providing a safe haven for them. They are very friendly, there has never been even one incident, I just do not understand why this is happening.

Of course, he now is going to fold, without any options.
Because of my bankruptcy, I am not able to but the house or I would, I need to wait for at least two to four years. I need a $270k loan.

I feel horrible for the people that leave here, they of course really have nowhere to go or any idea what to do now.


JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/10/2018 6:24 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 11/05/2018 5:31 PM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/05/2018 7:50 AM
Augustin, Certainly you aren’t recommending lying about the rental status?


George, if she tears up the lease, there is no rental agreement. Jules takes the risk that these people suddenly split, leaving her or him without rental income.




Because of the fact that they are my friends, I do NOT have anything in writing, there are NO rental agreements.
JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/10/2018 6:30 PM  

And whoever mentioned Deed OF Trust, THANK YOU, I will check this out and research it.
You guys are all very kind to take the time to read about my hardship, I really appreciate it.
JulesV
(Georgia)

Posts:9


11/10/2018 6:33 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/08/2018 3:28 PM
The house we foreclosed on was set up as a "Rent to own" situation. The "renter" was paying the owner additional monies to purchase the home with their rent. However, the owner actually had a 2nd mortgage. They were taking the "renter" money to pay off their 2nd mortgage. Thus they owned the 1st mortgage to the house. So the Renter put themselves in a bad situation. (Not knowingly). See the Renter could have essentially paid off the owner's 2nd mortgage but yet never receive the actual title as they had it under the 1st mortgage. Kind of a "switch and bait' scheme.

Mind you the owners stopped paying their dues for several years. The previous board had liens on it. I decided it was time to foreclose on those liens after that many years. All the owner had to do was pay the $2K+ they owed us. Instead they evicted their "renter" and then tried to make them pay the dues they owed! The owner then put another renter in while we were foreclosing. Again they found out what was going on and left.

We ended up foreclosing on the home. The "Renter" then took that owner to court and sued them for several thousands of dollars. It was for their extra money and breach of contract I believe. I had to testify on the HOA's behalf on our part of the foreclosure and responsibilities etc... The Renter ended up winning their case.

So my advice is to be very careful entering a lease to own situation. Make sure it's not you paying off a 2nd mortgage. You are going to get the title in a certain time frame. Your not necessarily inheriting "Equity" into that house. It's most likely the owner is using that equity for their own use.

This situation is a sub-lease situation with the room-mate. It's got nothing to do with the color of that roommate. It has everything to do with the # of people living in that home of which are not owners but renters. HOA's don't like renters and the issues they cause. So still not calling this the HOA wants to kick someone out due to race. It's more they don't want sub-leasing situations with multiple room mates.




Thank you very much for the advise, the house owner is my best friend, his house and a few others are all paid off, he owns a restaurant and is doing very well.
There isn't even a small doubt that he will not be on my side, or ever screw me over.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3105


11/10/2018 7:15 PM  

There isn't even a small doubt that he will not be on my side, or ever screw me over.


Lets say he dies in a car accident tomorrow. Where does that leave you "legally"?
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/10/2018 7:15 PM  
y'all get an attorney

draw up a contract sale agreement

record the deed of trust

couple of hours 'billable time'

anyone you like may then live with you as you will be an owner/member of the association

win - win situation
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/10/2018 11:21 PM  
May I also mention that most that do a "Rent to own" agreement usually have really bad credit. Meaning they don't have the credit to buy a house on their own. A "Rent to own" could help them buy a home but doesn't necessarily help anyone's credit. An owner willing to make a rent to own contract is really a good friend, using the situation to their own benefit, or have financial issues themselves.

Your lucky you have such a good friend but also believe they are getting some kind of benefit. However, this "new" rule put into place is hurting that benefit. Which is making them have no choice but to evict those extra "friends". It is also not their problem about your friends finding a new home. However, there are such things as "Tenant's rights". Which would give YOU the ability to extend an eviction. It doesn't extend to your friends.

So what I am reading into this is that your best friend is using their extra house to rent it to you. It benefits them to have it as rental for tax purposes and other financial reasons. By keeping you in it, they can keep it listed as rental. If they need to unload it, then they have someone to buy it. A win-win for your friend. However, by you allowing your friends to live in the home, makes them in violation of the HOA rules. That spells "Fine and punishment" for them. Your lease probably doesn't allow them to pass the fines onto you. (Something I would have in my rental agreements). It's not necessarily the HOA's that is causing the issue. It's kind of you by creating this situation for your friend.

Former HOA President
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:62


11/11/2018 6:28 AM  
By the way, check your local ordinances. There may be restrictions on the number of unrelated adults living in a home (this is true in my area). These laws exist to prevent people from turning "singe family residences" into unlicensed group homes. So even if the OP is OK with the HOA, he may not be OK with his local city/township/etc, and local city/township/etc laws take precedence over any HOA rules.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 6:37 AM  
The OP is NOT a renter.

He is a 'contract buyer'.

'Our' advice is merely to RECORD said contract and 'deed of trust'.

The seller can NOT 'back out of' said recorded contract.

The buyer may cancel at any time merely by not making monthly 'payment' and thereby relinquishing all monies paid to date.

Unfortunately, the HOA can only 'pound sand' unless and until the Covenants themselves restrict contract sales.

No 'rule' can bar the sale of a fee simple private property.

While the OP may NOT rent out any space, the OP is free to have room-mates or guests WITHOUT a lease or rental agreement. (day to day tenancy)

Tenant: Anyone residing in/on a property with the owner's consent.


The HOA is NOT an omnipotent dictator (as much as it would like to be, or seem to be).

It is in fact itself governed by law.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


11/11/2018 6:43 AM  
Exactly Cathy. This is what the HOA is doing by passing this rule. This home is coming across as a frat house. NOT that they are partying or doing bad things. It's just the living arrangements of multiple room mates (no matter the color) isn't ideal in a HOA. It increases traffic, noise, and the appearances. The HOA passing this rule or finally deciding to enforce it, not too surprising. Many HOA's already have such restrictions.

These guys are just learning a lesson in life. It may wake them up to be adults. So far it's not sounding like they have made that transition. NOT meaning it to be an insult. Just that once you get to a certain age, you should be paying your bills so you don't end up in situations like these. Your room mates too broke to rent an apartment? Your in a lease to own for multiple years with a friend. Not getting equity nor building your credit to purchase that home. Want to blame others for making rules based on someone's skin color for the situation you are in.


It's just time to pull up those boot straps and sign some paperwork... Besides what if you were the owner in this HOA and saw the same thing happening? Would you not be going to the HOA asking them what is the deal with allowing so many people live in a house?

Former HOA President
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 8:09 AM  
..... This is what the HOA is doing by passing this rule. .....


The HOA may NOT 'pass a rule' restricting private property, only a common element.

The HOA may amend the Covenants and Restrictions while adhering to same.

The HOA may NOT limit who may live in one's home (exception for HOPA).

The HOA's Covenants may restrict the ability to lease or rent.

The OP is NOT renting or leasing, they are PURCHASING.

Sheeez, here we go again ...............................

and again

and again

RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 8:19 AM  
..... Would you not be going to the HOA asking them what is the deal with allowing so many people live in a house? .....


NO

The HOA does NOT limit occupancy (exception for HOPA) unless there is an actual restriction in the Covenants and Restrictions. (sneaking same into bylaws does not count)

The local 'authority having jurisdiction' (code compliance) may, or may not, have limits.

Single Family doe NOT, repeat NOT, mean related individuals - merely common entrances and common kitchen(s) as opposed to multiple independent dwelling units in the structure.

ps. Threads like this are why I 'quit' this forum periodically. The HOA is merely a contract to maintain the common elements, not a moral social club. ORIGINALLY, HOAs were created to keep out the 'undesirables'. Evidently we have hold-overs today. Young-Uns, the horror the horror.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 8:24 AM  
Occupancy Standards

The U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development (HUD) issued a statement of policy describing the guidelines it will use in evaluating occupancy limits to determine whether they comply with the Fair Housing Act's prohibition on familial status discrimination. The guidelines effective date was December 18, 1998 and places as standard a March 29, 1991 memo that is referred to as "The Keating Memo."

This memo states that HUD believes that an occupancy policy of two persons in a bedroom, as a general rule, is reasonable under the Fair Housing Act. However, the memo also states that the reasonableness of any occupancy policy is rebuttable, and should not imply that they will evaluate compliance solely on the number of people permitted in each bedroom. Rather, it believes that in appropriate circumstances, owners and managers may develop and implement reasonable occupancy requirements based on factors such as the number and size of sleeping areas or bedrooms and the overall size of the dwelling unit.

Other factors HUD will consider include the size of the bedrooms, the configuration of the unit (for example the presence of a den or small extra room), the overall size of the dwelling, capacity of septic, sewer or other building systems, existence of state or local laws, and any pretextual evidence of discrimination by the housing provider.

as per: http://www.fairhousing.com/index.cfm?method=page.display&pagename=HUD_resources_keatingmmo
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 12:07 PM  
above is a bad link
------------------------------------

see: https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_35681.PDF (page 2 for keating memo)
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 12:09 PM  
test
---------------------

[url]https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_35681.PDF[/url]

{url}https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_35681.PDF{/url}

[url]https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_35681.PDF[url]

{url}https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_35681.PDF{url}
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 12:14 PM  
test
------------------------

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_35681.PDF
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 12:15 PM  
was attempting to create a 'hot link'

GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2466


11/11/2018 12:22 PM  
Posted By RoyalP on 11/11/2018 12:15 PM
was attempting to create a 'hot link'

You have to use straight HTML. The notations used to do it from bboard and other kinds of forums don't work.

<a target=_blank href="http://www.example.com/some_article">Clickable Link Text</a>


Ignore the above line if it doesn't appear as a proper example of an HTML link.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2466


11/11/2018 12:23 PM  
Except for the "target=_blank" part it doesn't look bad! Not sure where that came from since I didn't type that.
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 1:50 PM  
thank you

I'm not 'into' coding or hyper text markup language.

Was once upon a time a good 'flow charter'.

Back when COBOL & SOBOL ruled.

Left the actual coding to the clerks.

Now, I merely punch the keys for entertainment.

RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 1:53 PM  
final test
-------------------------

RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 1:58 PM  


keating
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 1:58 PM  
yeeaaaah

will forget how by tomorrow

RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 1:59 PM  
spoke too soon
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 2:05 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 11/11/2018 12:22 PM
Posted By RoyalP on 11/11/2018 12:15 PM
was attempting to create a 'hot link'

You have to use straight HTML. The notations used to do it from bboard and other kinds of forums don't work.

 
<a target=_blank href="http://www.example.com/some_article">Clickable Link Texta>


Ignore the above line if it doesn't appear as a proper example of an HTML link.




keating

keating
RoyalP
(South Carolina)

Posts:65


11/11/2018 2:12 PM  



GOT IT

(hyperlink text)


HOPE TO REMEMBER
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