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Subject: Long shot modification of CCRs in Florida Volntary HOA
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GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:750


10/28/2018 2:14 AM  
So, we made some progress this year ...
1. Bylaws updated and recorded
2. MRTA preserved and recorded
3. HOA Membership increased to 114 of 189 property owners
4. Reduced dues 30% based on increased membership
5. Filled Committees for architecture and audit per CCRs
6. Established new Beautification and Welcome Committees

Deep breath ... able to do all of this because the Board was flexible and interested in improvement from the low the community had been in for quite awhile.

My previous posts noted how our “voluntary” HOA, formed under FL S617, has made it very hard to maintain the common areas and the commonly owned, unsellable (recorded community prohibition) 1 plus acre park.

CCRs state 90% to modify the CCRs. Would this same percentage hold for modification that includes changing the membership to mandatory? If so, this means we would need at least 171 owners to agree.

This sounds really hard - and would certainly not be possible to attain at a special meeting - we would need to collect signatures, instead, on the new doc, from many long distance, non resident owners.

If there is a positive side, we would be able to simplify the covenants, and eliminate a couple that are unenforceable - like not allowing parking in the driveways. While this would interest many, I don’t know that it would be enough to get enough votes.

I would appreciate your thoughts on how to approach this ... tips, hints, etc, out of the box ideas, etc would be great.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


10/28/2018 4:57 AM  
Here is what our lawyer did for us. Our CC&R's required a special meeting to take the vote for the 90% vote. Which like you we knew was impossible. However, what the Lawyer did is draft up another document for us. That document went with the vote itself. What it did was remove the right to cast one's vote at the special meeting. Meaning you had to sign that document giving up your "rights" to attend a special meeting to cast your vote.

We then had another document that was the actual vote. It had the list of items we were going to change which was like 5 items. That way one didn't have to read the whole document. Just specified the actual changes so people could see them spelled out.

This still took about 3 years to accomplish. However, it did allow us to get signatures basically any way we could. Often bringing the sheet to the regular meetings and sometimes going door to door. Think it would have gone faster if the previous president and board did a bit more work. So your results may vary once you have the freedom to sign off not having the special meeting. Something may want to remove while updating...

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:750


10/28/2018 9:14 AM  
Thanks, Melissa,

I have heard of HOAs having an open ended doc that allowed a rolling signing ... start with Special Meeting to explain process and get the first signers, then work the neighborhood getting signatures, and then reassess those that didn’t sign initially by meeting with them, or waiting them out ... as the non signers move, try and get the new owners to sign.

How open ended can it be? If yours took 3 years, could it go to five as long as the current Board keeps working it?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7716


10/28/2018 9:50 AM  
We spent all that time to find out it may be along the lines of "honor system" . What happens is after you collect ALL those signatures, they get attached to the form for filing at the courthouse. There is a fee for filing. Ours was around $750. Our lawyer had to do the actual filing at the courthouse. There was a fee for the Articles of Incorporation I believe too. It is filed with the state. Do not remember those details. We attached our by-laws to the CC&R's even though they did not require filing. It's just for safe upkeep/distribution. Those documents are considered PUBLIC once filed. (By-laws are internal to HOA).


We did have a good and fast owner turnover after I took over. (Even had a waiting list to buy a home) I think what mattered is that the date the owner signed reflects their time of membership. So once 1 house sold, we usually didn't go and revisit. I don't think they really even reviewed the signatures. It was just important to us to be honest and reflect the time of what the owners wanted.

Former HOA President
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1263


10/29/2018 8:03 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 10/28/2018 2:14 AM

CCRs state 90% to modify the CCRs. Would this same percentage hold for modification that includes changing the membership to mandatory? If so, this means we would need at least 171 owners to agree.


I would be surprised if you could force people into a mandatory association without their consent, so I would think only those that voted in favor would be required to belong. A good lawyer question though.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:750


10/29/2018 11:53 PM  
Douglas,

Good point ...

Question I guess is - since deeds link to the CCRs, and the CCRs make clear that all property owners must conform, but the HOA itself is voluntary ...then can the 90% factor in the CCRs be used as basis for ANY modification.
RoyalpitA


Posts:0


10/31/2018 6:44 AM  
GeorgeS21,

The issue is:

90% of OWNERS or 90% of MEMBERS ?

IMO (worth 1.3 cents) it would be 90% of ALL OWNERS required to amend.

Presently,

All members are owners, not all owners are members.

All owners must comply with the restrictions.

Members (who are also owners subject to the restrictions) voluntarily pay for association's nonessential 'amenities'.

So,
can 90% of all owners force, via amendment to CCRs, membership by the remaining 10% ?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

for your consideration:
Perhaps, since y'all have no ESSENTIAL common elements, the original intent was for the people who want a 'pretty' entrance to fund same.

John B.
RoyalpitA


Posts:0


10/31/2018 6:51 AM  
ps.

Many CCRs refer to 'by signed instrument' (or similar) as a method for amending.

Time frame for signatures is almost immaterial,

BUT,

all signatories must be owners AT THE TIME of 'finalization' of said instrument.

Ownership of property can and will change over the course of time - a valid signature of an owner may no longer be valid 'down the road' - a logistical nightmare to 'get right'.

IMO: don't take longer than 6 months to garner the signatures

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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Long shot modification of CCRs in Florida Volntary HOA



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