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Subject: Service Dogs in Pool
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Author Messages
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/11/2018 9:49 AM  
Our HOA has a community pool and in our R&R it clearly states no pets allowed in the pool area. The same is on a sign at the entrance of the pool. We have one member who keeps bringing their dog into the pool area. When I mentioned to her that pets are not allowed in the pool, she replied "this is a service dog, I can take it anywhere I want". This is the third time she violated the rules.The first two times she stated that she kept the dog outside the pool area while she was there even though we have her on camera bringing the dog into the pool. She says that HIPPA laws allow her to take her dog anywhere she wants. With a little research, I found that in Florida this only applies to public areas (stores, restarants, etc) Since our pool is a private pool, HIPPA laws regarding service dogs would not apply and it would be up to the discretion of the Board as to allow her to continue bringing the dog to the pool.
Would like to hear from others that may have dealt with this and how your board handled it. Thanks in advance!
AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/11/2018 10:05 AM  
Hi JerryV, you appear to be referring to laws like the federal Americans with Disabilities Act. As you wrote, this applies to places of public accommodation. Many people think HOAs, being private, do not have to accommodate disability. Not so. At HOAs, the Fair Housing Act is the proxy for the ADA when it comes to disability.

If I were on your HOA board, and with a nod to the havoc that HUD and state agencies can cause a HOA not accommodating disability, I would ensure the member's and dog's papers were in order and inform her that she may bring her dog into the pool area. I view pools as vital to many people's health, and in some cases, especially the health of the disabled.

Disability seems to be the area of direct discrimination where HUD is the most active these days. Maybe because disability discrimination typically offers the most concrete proof. We are talking about thinks like unsat sidewalks; parking; service dogs; restrooms; and so on.
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/11/2018 10:48 AM  
After I posted, I realized I meant ADA. The dog owner referred to HIPPA meaning she did not have to disclose her disability, which I never asked for.
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/11/2018 11:31 AM  
AugustinD,
I see your point,but if a person doesn't have to disclose a disability, then people can just do whatever they want. I know this person is not disabled. In fact, when I was on the Board we had a person with a service animal who was allowed to use the pool. We had no problem with that. But in this case, this is a "companion" dog which is not recognized by ADA. Heck EVERY dog is someone's companion! By the way, we're not talking about a lap dog. It must weigh 50 lbs and runs all around the pool, basically out of control.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5767


10/11/2018 12:43 PM  
We don't allow dogs in our pool area either. IF we did for some reason, we certainly would require it to be on a leash just as we require for all of our interior and exterior common areas.

Butt I see Jerry's not on the board so needs to persuade them to enforce the rule.
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/11/2018 12:47 PM  
What does the Florida Department of Health say?

http://www.floridahealth.gov/%5c/environmental-health/swimming-pools/index.html


Remember: Y'all are NOT, repeat NOT, a place of public accommodation.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5767


10/11/2018 12:52 PM  
We don't allow dogs in our pool area either. IF we did for some reason, we certainly would require it to be on a leash with a minimum length just as we require for all of our interior and exterior common areas.

But I see Jerry's not on the board so needs to persuade them to enforce the rule.
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/11/2018 1:03 PM  
To go where 'no man wants to go':

NO ANIMALS IN POOL AREA - PERIOD

Does one want a blind person swimming except with 'specialty' life guards present ?

Would paying such 'guards' be an unreasonable expense ?

Does one want an emotionally disabled person who can not function w/o 'emotional support' swimming ?

Who will pay for the REQUIRED pool closing if/when the animal has an 'accident' ?


MOST 'authorities having jurisdiction' (eg. dept of health) PROHIBIT animals at the pool PERIOD.



There ARE exceptions to ADA and FHA and HUD rules.



let the debate begin
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/11/2018 1:07 PM  
HOWEVER

Direct from my link above,

unfortunately,

Can service dogs go into public swimming pools or the pool area?

Service animals are allowed onto the pool deck, but ​not into the pool. While service dogs are generally allowed to accompany their owners​ anywhere the public would normally be allowed to go, they may be excluded under certain conditions, such as a threat to the health and safety of others. ​The Department of Health considers any animal in a public pool a public health threat.


The HOA can, however, require that the appropriate letter from a health care provider be provided before allowing the animal.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:669


10/11/2018 1:16 PM  
yep - first part is easy.

Insist on the letter required for the animal to be a service animal - NOT a companion animal.

If the Board will not do this, then let them know you will be calling the local department of health, etc to report and unsafe and unsanitary condition.

The Board will likely do the easy thing. :-)
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/11/2018 1:23 PM  
George,

In case you are curious:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0413/Sections/0413.08.html


JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/11/2018 2:03 PM  
Thank you all for your insight, suggestions and links. Lots of good info. We have our Board meeting tonight and I'll find out how the grievance I filed is addressed.
Jerry
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5767


10/11/2018 2:49 PM  
You haven't mentioned, Jerry, if dogs are allowed off leash in your HOA's common areas.
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/11/2018 3:03 PM  
KerryL1, all dogs must be on a leash on common areas.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2435


10/11/2018 3:30 PM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/11/2018 9:49 AM
Since our pool is a private pool ...

Are you sure about that? Condo pools in Florida are considered private but HOA pools are "public swimming pools" for the most part.

If the woman has a legit service dog then you likely have to allow her to have it in the pool area, but NOT actually IN the swimming pool. And I don't think it's the HIPPA laws that govern service animals. I think it's a combination of HUD regulations, Fair Housing laws (federal and state), and maybe the Americans with Disabilities Act.
AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/11/2018 5:22 PM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/11/2018 11:31 AM
AugustinD,
I see your point,but if a person doesn't have to disclose a disability, then people can just do whatever they want. I know this person is not disabled. In fact, when I was on the Board we had a person with a service animal who was allowed to use the pool. We had no problem with that. But in this case, this is a "companion" dog which is not recognized by ADA. Heck EVERY dog is someone's companion! By the way, we're not talking about a lap dog. It must weigh 50 lbs and runs all around the pool, basically out of control.


Jerry, if she is asking for a reasonable accommodation on account of disability, and the disability is not obvious, then she has to provide verification of the disability. See for example: https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/ReasonableAccommodations15 and
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF

Mental disability counts as a possible reason for an "emotional support animal."

As needed the board should inform this member that she will have to provide proof of disability, pursuant to HUD guidelines.

This topic comes up a lot here. Forget about ADA. Forget about HIPPA. The law here is all from the Fair Housing Act and HUD guidance on same.
AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/11/2018 5:44 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 10/11/2018 3:30 PM
I think it's a combination of HUD regulations, Fair Housing laws (federal and state), and maybe the Americans with Disabilities Act.



Geno, you're right, and I am a bit off in my analysis. For example, here's North Carolina on when North Carolina HOA pools have to comply with the ADA: https://wmdouglas.com/new-ada-pool-accessibility-mandates-the-hoa/
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1312


10/12/2018 4:18 AM  
I'm not sure why there's a debate. No dogs in the pool or at the pool. I see references to North Carolina in this thread and animals in the water does violate some health rules. It's not the end of the world but it's not good practice.
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/12/2018 4:54 AM  
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/12/2018 4:18 AM
I'm not sure why there's a debate. No dogs in the pool or at the pool. I see references to North Carolina in this thread and animals in the water does violate some health rules. It's not the end of the world but it's not good practice.




ALL jurisdictions ban animals IN the water.

'MOST' jurisdictions permit 'service animals' on the pool deck.

The debate becomes: What are the requirements for a service animal ?


JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/12/2018 5:45 AM  
At last night's board meeting, our grievance director read my grievance and said that the woman told her the dog is a "service" animal and that she doesn't have to disclose the nature of her "disablity", citing HIPPA. So I produced the Florida Statute that said service animals must demonstrate what they are specifically trained to do and must be leashed. If we let her continue bringing the animal to the pool, everyone else will start doing the same (at least 6 other people said they'd like to bring their pets to the pool also) One of them has their OWN pool in the backyard and when asked why don't you just use it, he said he would prefer the community pool so his "service" dog can socialize with the other dogs. They want to turn our pool into doggy water park!
I suggested that in the future, if anyone wants to bring their "service" animal to the pool they should come before the Board to explain what service the animal actually performs. If they can't or won't prove that it is a service animal, then they will not be allowed pool privileges. "NO PROOF, NO POOL"
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:510


10/12/2018 7:18 AM  
Being a security guard and having to deal with this issue constantly, we are not allowed to ask why you need the service animal or what your disability is.
We are allowed to dance around the issue by asking a simple question, what tasks is your service companion trained to perform? That's it. Period end of story.
When I ask this question I usually get blank stares leading me to interpret that they are B$ing me. Anyone with a bonafide service animal will be able to articulately answer the question without reservation or hesitation.
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/12/2018 8:02 AM  
LetA, that's what I'm suggesting to our board. Anyone wanting to bring a service animal to the pool must prove that it is indeed a service animal. That will weed out the people who just want to bring their dogs swimming.
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/12/2018 10:28 AM  
Posted By LetA on 10/12/2018 7:18 AM
Being a security guard and having to deal with this issue constantly, we are not allowed to ask why you need the service animal or what your disability is.
We are allowed to dance around the issue by asking a simple question, what tasks is your service companion trained to perform? That's it. Period end of story.
When I ask this question I usually get blank stares leading me to interpret that they are B$ing me. Anyone with a bonafide service animal will be able to articulately answer the question without reservation or hesitation.




D'OH

+ an 'emotional support animal' requires a letter from a 'health care professional' certifying 'emotional need' on the part of the owner (w/o specifying the diagnosis)
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/12/2018 10:46 AM  
Update on Service Dogs in Pool:

When confronted with the copy of FL statutes clearly stating the definition of "service" the woman replied "I am fostering this dog and it is being trained to be a dope sniffing dog for the Sheriff's Dept." I feel that answer doesn't pass the sniff test! (pun intended) She just made our case.
JenniferG12
(Texas)

Posts:103


10/13/2018 3:22 AM  
Posted By RoyalpitA on 10/12/2018 4:54 AM
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/12/2018 4:18 AM
I'm not sure why there's a debate. No dogs in the pool or at the pool. I see references to North Carolina in this thread and animals in the water does violate some health rules. It's not the end of the world but it's not good practice.




ALL jurisdictions ban animals IN the water.

'MOST' jurisdictions permit 'service animals' on the pool deck.

The debate becomes: What are the requirements for a service animal ?






SERVICE dogs have no jurisdictions. They are Federally protected and may go in the pool area, full stop, IF it is a SERVICE dog. If it's an ESA, no it may not go in the pool area.

Can't run around off leash, tho.
JenniferG12
(Texas)

Posts:103


10/13/2018 3:26 AM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/12/2018 10:46 AM
Update on Service Dogs in Pool:

When confronted with the copy of FL statutes clearly stating the definition of "service" the woman replied "I am fostering this dog and it is being trained to be a dope sniffing dog for the Sheriff's Dept." I feel that answer doesn't pass the sniff test! (pun intended) She just made our case.





LOL. Just FYI, you always need to look at Federal Law. Many states have different definitions but Federal of course trumps them all. But this doesn't sound like a real service dog!
JenniferG12
(Texas)

Posts:103


10/13/2018 3:32 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/11/2018 5:22 PM
Posted By JerryV on 10/11/2018 11:31 AM
AugustinD,
I see your point,but if a person doesn't have to disclose a disability, then people can just do whatever they want. I know this person is not disabled. In fact, when I was on the Board we had a person with a service animal who was allowed to use the pool. We had no problem with that. But in this case, this is a "companion" dog which is not recognized by ADA. Heck EVERY dog is someone's companion! By the way, we're not talking about a lap dog. It must weigh 50 lbs and runs all around the pool, basically out of control.


Jerry, if she is asking for a reasonable accommodation on account of disability, and the disability is not obvious, then she has to provide verification of the disability. See for example: https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/ReasonableAccommodations15 and
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF

Mental disability counts as a possible reason for an "emotional support animal."

As needed the board should inform this member that she will have to provide proof of disability, pursuant to HUD guidelines.

This topic comes up a lot here. Forget about ADA. Forget about HIPPA. The law here is all from the Fair Housing Act and HUD guidance on same.




Not entirely correct. A person with a psychiatric disability could have a service dog or an Emotional support animal. Which one they have determines the access they are permitted, and looking at state laws is a waste of time. They are all different, and any deviation from Federal law is invalid.

Service dogs fall under ADA and HUD, there is no 'forgetting' ADA when it comes to *service* dogs.

Service dogs and ESAs are entirely different animals, pun intended.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:669


10/13/2018 5:15 AM  
Look, everyone is trying to be nice and to be authoritative regarding this circumstance.

It sounds like this is going to go down the right way - the OP/BoD has cornered the woman with the dog and gotten enough information to walk the dog back to the likely fact the dog is not protected and should not be in the pool area.

If we weren't nice, we might say something like ... "yeah, another owner who doesn't care about the rules, they just want what they want."

OP - hold this one tight on the rules, get everything in writing, make certain you know what you are talking about ... then toss her and her dog out of the pool. The dog because it isn't supposed to be there, and her for continually lying to the representatives of the BoD.
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/13/2018 6:42 AM  
Posted By JenniferG12 on 10/13/2018 3:22 AM
Posted By RoyalpitA on 10/12/2018 4:54 AM
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/12/2018 4:18 AM
I'm not sure why there's a debate. No dogs in the pool or at the pool. I see references to North Carolina in this thread and animals in the water does violate some health rules. It's not the end of the world but it's not good practice.




ALL jurisdictions ban animals IN the water.

'MOST' jurisdictions permit 'service animals' on the pool deck.

The debate becomes: What are the requirements for a service animal ?






SERVICE dogs have no jurisdictions. They are Federally protected and may go in the pool area, full stop, IF it is a SERVICE dog. If it's an ESA, no it may not go in the pool area.

Can't run around off leash, tho.




protected at places of public accommodation


in SC (probably elsewhere also): a HOA class 'b' public pool is NOT a place of public accommodation

it may be rated 'class b public' because a member may invite a guest from the general public
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/13/2018 6:53 AM  
She's claiming that the dog is being trained to be a drug sniffing dog for the Sheriff's dept. (her husband is a deputy) I don't think that qualifies as a "service dog" Also, we have video showing the dog running unleashed around the pool and jumping in the pool to fetch balls tossed by the owner!
AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/13/2018 7:15 AM  
Posted By JenniferG12 on 10/13/2018 3:32 AM
Service dogs fall under ADA and HUD, there is no 'forgetting' ADA when it comes to *service* dogs.



Both service dogs and emotional support animals fall under the purview of the Fair Housing Act and so HUD.


If either a HOA or condominium does not have any part of its grounds that qualifies as a place of public accommodation (and this is so for many HOAs and condos), then the federal ADA does not apply to the HOA/condominium and may be forgotten.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/14/2018 2:32 AM  
Posted By RoyalpitA on 10/13/2018 6:42 AM
Posted By JenniferG12 on 10/13/2018 3:22 AM
Posted By RoyalpitA on 10/12/2018 4:54 AM
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/12/2018 4:18 AM
I'm not sure why there's a debate. No dogs in the pool or at the pool. I see references to North Carolina in this thread and animals in the water does violate some health rules. It's not the end of the world but it's not good practice.




ALL jurisdictions ban animals IN the water.

'MOST' jurisdictions permit 'service animals' on the pool deck.

The debate becomes: What are the requirements for a service animal ?






SERVICE dogs have no jurisdictions. They are Federally protected and may go in the pool area, full stop, IF it is a SERVICE dog. If it's an ESA, no it may not go in the pool area.

Can't run around off leash, tho.




protected at places of public accommodation


in SC (probably elsewhere also): a HOA class 'b' public pool is NOT a place of public accommodation

it may be rated 'class b public' because a member may invite a guest from the general public




A service dog may go anywhere their handler needs to go. Period.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/14/2018 2:35 AM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/13/2018 6:53 AM
She's claiming that the dog is being trained to be a drug sniffing dog for the Sheriff's dept. (her husband is a deputy) I don't think that qualifies as a "service dog" Also, we have video showing the dog running unleashed around the pool and jumping in the pool to fetch balls tossed by the owner!





Slam dunk for the board. There is a 'service dog in training' thing, like IF the dog really was. In Texas, service dogs in training, the handler may ask for accommodation *to* train, but no one has to say yes. Your state might have something similar, but this one is blowing smoke.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/14/2018 2:37 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/13/2018 7:15 AM
Posted By JenniferG12 on 10/13/2018 3:32 AM
Service dogs fall under ADA and HUD, there is no 'forgetting' ADA when it comes to *service* dogs.



Both service dogs and emotional support animals fall under the purview of the Fair Housing Act and so HUD.


If either a HOA or condominium does not have any part of its grounds that qualifies as a place of public accommodation (and this is so for many HOAs and condos), then the federal ADA does not apply to the HOA/condominium and may be forgotten.




True Service Dogs may go anywhere their handlers go, period.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/14/2018 3:05 AM  
ADA cannot be forgotten. If I invite a friend to the pool, as is my right, I can bring guests, and that friend has a service dog, the dog has to be admitted along with the guest. The pool is semi-public access due to the aspect of guests.

This does not apply to ESAs. They don't get public access, except on planes, which is bizarre, but not relevant to us. In an HOA setting, ESAs may be in the home and of course have access to common areas, They must be allowed to walk and 'do their business', but they are not entitled to go to the pool or any other area that *pet* dogs may not go.

Service dogs are because the owner of the service dog needs them at all times to do whatever task/s they do. The ADA and HUD rules intersect at some points.

Now, if this dog that my friend brings is running about off leash, or otherwise misbehaving, it will likely be deemed not a real service dog, but either way, even if a real one was having some sort of issue, misbehaving dogs, service or not, may be ejected.

RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/14/2018 5:58 AM  
CORRECT

but

still not allowed (for public health reasons) [b/in the pool itself, merely allowed on the deck
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/14/2018 5:59 AM  
drat, no edit

Posted By RoyalpitA on 10/14/2018 5:58 AM
CORRECT

but

still not allowed (for public health reasons) in the pool itself, merely allowed on the deck



AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/14/2018 7:56 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/14/2018 3:05 AM
ADA cannot be forgotten. If I invite a friend to the pool, as is my right, I can bring guests, and that friend has a service dog, the dog has to be admitted along with the guest. The pool is semi-public access due to the aspect of guests.


Not so. By your reasoning a person's home is "semi-public" because a person has guests over once in awhile.

This topic is well-covered on the net. Condos and HOAs are not necessarily subject to ADA law. Not that it matters, since Fair Housing Act/HUD law against disability discrimination is about as good as the ADA.
AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/14/2018 7:58 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/14/2018 2:37 AM
True Service Dogs may go anywhere their handlers go, period.


Not so. From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html:

Q33. Are gyms, fitness centers, hotels, or municipalities that have swimming pools required to allow a service animal in the pool with its handler?

A. No. The ADA does not override public health rules that prohibit dogs in swimming pools. However, service animals must be allowed on the pool deck and in other areas where the public is allowed to go.

AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/14/2018 8:15 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/14/2018 2:37 AM
True Service Dogs may go anywhere their handlers go, period.


Service dogs may also be prohibited from churches, synagogues, mosques etc. From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Q34. Are churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, and other places of worship required to allow individuals to bring their service animals into the facility?

A. No. Religious institutions and organizations are specifically exempt from the ADA. However, there may be State laws that apply to religious organizations.
RoyalpitA
(South Carolina)

Posts:149


10/14/2018 8:34 AM  
From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html:

Q33. Are gyms, fitness centers, hotels, or municipalities that have swimming pools required to allow a service animal in the pool with its handler?

A. No. The ADA does not override public health rules that prohibit dogs in swimming pools. However, service animals must be allowed on the pool deck and in other areas where the public is allowed to go.



PRECISELY

it is a pity that common sense needs documentation
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/14/2018 10:58 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/14/2018 7:56 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/14/2018 3:05 AM
ADA cannot be forgotten. If I invite a friend to the pool, as is my right, I can bring guests, and that friend has a service dog, the dog has to be admitted along with the guest. The pool is semi-public access due to the aspect of guests.


Not so. By your reasoning a person's home is "semi-public" because a person has guests over once in awhile.

This topic is well-covered on the net. Condos and HOAs are not necessarily subject to ADA law. Not that it matters, since Fair Housing Act/HUD law against disability discrimination is about as good as the ADA.




The HUD guidelines defer to the ADA for the definition of a *service* dog. In other aspects, it talks about ESAs and service dogs, but doesn't outline the higher status and rights of a *service* dog.

It's complicated!
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/14/2018 11:09 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/14/2018 8:15 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/14/2018 2:37 AM
True Service Dogs may go anywhere their handlers go, period.


Service dogs may also be prohibited from churches, synagogues, mosques etc. From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Q34. Are churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, and other places of worship required to allow individuals to bring their service animals into the facility?

A. No. Religious institutions and organizations are specifically exempt from the ADA. However, there may be State laws that apply to religious organizations.




"One other thing of importance with regards to churches and service animals one area that many forget is that although the ADA does not directly influence churches and accessibility for service animals or other needs of the disabled is the area of public funding. In accordance to ADA any entity receiving public funding cannot deny access to the disabled to include those that require service dogs.

All too often churches apply for federal and local government for grants and other public funding for their various services and projects in their communities. Churches can deny allowing an individual with a service dog but the government can also refuse or deny any public funding for non compliance with the ADA."

Ergo, deny the dog at your own peril. And hope the person doesn't file a complaint if you do that.
AugustinD


Posts:1127


10/15/2018 2:14 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/14/2018 10:58 PM
It's complicated!


Says you. Under the law, HOAs need to reasonably accommodate the disabled and their service animal or their emotional support animal. A key word is "reasonably." HOAs may require certain documentation when the disability is not obvious. HUD has much guidance on the subject and many example lawsuits where HUD prevailed in a disability discrimination case. What seems to be fairly common are (1) people who do not have documentation but try to test the patience of HOA boards (as appears to be the case in this thread); and (2) HOA boards who typically are ignorant of the law and eager to make battles into ego wars or displays of their ability to bully.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:669


10/15/2018 11:56 AM  
JerryV,

Please keep us updated- this is something that is going to gain more and more attention.

What works legally should be shared.
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/16/2018 12:01 PM  
Thanks to all for the insights and thoughts. I will update with any new developements.
Thanks again!
JerryV
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/19/2018 6:19 AM  
UPDATE...
When a second violation was presented to the grievance director (along with video of the infraction), the woman is threatening a law suit claiming to be a victim of "video voyeurism" Examination of surveillence video needs approval from a Board member, and only for specific event. Let's see what happens at next months' board meeting.

Jerry













MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:111


10/19/2018 6:37 AM  
Jerry,
We have to assume that you have signs informing people that the area is under Video surveillance 24 hours a day. I would tell her to take that frivolous lawsuit and go to Wal Mart who has dozens of cameras watching every move customers make while in and around it's stores. She is trying to scare the board and bully you.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5767


10/19/2018 12:07 PM  
Mark is right--there should be no expectation of privacy in your HOA's common areas (except restrooms/dressing rooms, of course).
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/19/2018 12:50 PM  
Posted By JerryV on 10/19/2018 6:19 AM
UPDATE...
When a second violation was presented to the grievance director (along with video of the infraction), the woman is threatening a law suit claiming to be a victim of "video voyeurism" Examination of surveillence video needs approval from a Board member, and only for specific event. Let's see what happens at next months' board meeting.

Jerry

















She's a hoot!
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:510


10/19/2018 9:52 PM  
Honestly I was told by my last sergeant that comfort companions are not allowed in the pool area at all. Service dogs that assist the blind, disables are allowed, and trust me you will be able to identify the people that have legitimate service dogs.


JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/19/2018 10:20 PM  
Posted By LetA on 10/19/2018 9:52 PM
Honestly I was told by my last sergeant that comfort companions are not allowed in the pool area at all. Service dogs that assist the blind, disables are allowed, and trust me you will be able to identify the people that have legitimate service dogs.






You really can't. How can you identify someone whose service dog detects seizures or blood sugar changes or panic attacks? But yes, only service dogs, not ESA's, aka 'comfort' animals have access rights to areas pets may not go.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:510


10/20/2018 8:13 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/19/2018 10:20 PM
Posted By LetA on 10/19/2018 9:52 PM
Honestly I was told by my last sergeant that comfort companions are not allowed in the pool area at all. Service dogs that assist the blind, disables are allowed, and trust me you will be able to identify the people that have legitimate service dogs.






You really can't. How can you identify someone whose service dog detects seizures or blood sugar changes or panic attacks? But yes, only service dogs, not ESA's, aka 'comfort' animals have access rights to areas pets may not go.





Those dog will have harnesses that clearly label them as working animals, sadly people can buy knockoffs online. I think it's time that A.) people are allowed to demand proof and B.) The agencies that train and approve these dogs issue collar tags with serial numbers or QR scans that can quickly verify their legitimacy.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:464


10/20/2018 11:51 AM  
Posted By LetA on 10/20/2018 8:13 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/19/2018 10:20 PM
Posted By LetA on 10/19/2018 9:52 PM
Honestly I was told by my last sergeant that comfort companions are not allowed in the pool area at all. Service dogs that assist the blind, disables are allowed, and trust me you will be able to identify the people that have legitimate service dogs.






You really can't. How can you identify someone whose service dog detects seizures or blood sugar changes or panic attacks? But yes, only service dogs, not ESA's, aka 'comfort' animals have access rights to areas pets may not go.





Those dog will have harnesses that clearly label them as working animals, sadly people can buy knockoffs online. I think it's time that A.) people are allowed to demand proof and B.) The agencies that train and approve these dogs issue collar tags with serial numbers or QR scans that can quickly verify their legitimacy.




There is no requirement for a harness or a vest or an ID tag. ALL of those are things people just buy. Anyone can. There is no agency that certifies dogs, so there are no 'legit' labels to have 'knock-of' labels/badges/etc.

People buy them either for their own reasons, wanting the dog to be identified as working so that people know it's not a pet to be petted and so forth, OR to appease people who believe they are supposed to be wearing one. Even though there is no basis in law for that, it just makes things easier for the person to get what people want to see.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2435


10/20/2018 2:16 PM  
Posted By LetA on 10/20/2018 8:13 AM
Those dog will have harnesses that clearly label them as working animals, sadly people can buy knockoffs online.

They're all "knockoffs" since there's no requirement for a harness or vest to identify service animals and "official service animal vests" don't exist. People sell them often under false pretenses that they're somehow required by law.
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Service Dogs in Pool



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