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Subject: Our HOA Treasurer's house electricity was turned off for non-payment...
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JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/03/2018 3:38 PM  
Our HOA Treasurer's house electricity was turned off for non-payment.

The electric company left a flyer on my door by accident instead of my neighbors (The HOA Treasurer)

It said his electric was being shut off as of 10/1 for a past due balance of $900 (wow!)
It also showed his electric bill has been late for the last 15 months in a row.

How can I give this information to the rest of the community as a reason to remove him from the Board?

I've thought up 3 options so far:

A) Mailing a picture of the notice anonymously to everyone on the street
B) Tell my neighbor directly what happened, and give him the chance to save his dignity by resigning before I make the info public at the next HOA meeting
C) Wait until the next HOA meeting and present the info there to everybody

What would you do?
MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:160


10/03/2018 4:03 PM  
Jeremy,
Desperate times calls for desperate measures. This works for both parties in this case.

I would start with option B first and tell him that he has a week to resign or you will go to the A option. I have seen a lot of people who were way behind in dues and other bills. Utilities is not usually a bill the average guy would ignore. He may be in real bad straights and if he has any access to any HOA funds who knows what he may do. If he does not resign it costs less than a dollar a home to send a letter informing the community of this issue. Pretty scary that he was seated as a Treasurer of your HOA. I have often raised the question as to why boards can't do Credit Checks on Candidates and possibly background checks. Homeowners vote people into office with very little thought as to the decisions they will make on their behalf's.


Please let us know how it goes.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/03/2018 4:09 PM  
Option B has me a little unsure because this neighbor and I already don't like each other and have a history.
But if I do the anonymous mailing to everybody immediately, there's a 99% chance he'll just "know" (assume) that it's me that did it anyways.

(We have a small HOA of 50 houses)
MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:160


10/03/2018 4:13 PM  
Jeremy,
You can mail it anonymously and say the next batch will be mailed in 10 days.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5961


10/03/2018 4:16 PM  
Whoa--do a little brake-tapping.

Does this treasurer have any access to your HOA's checkbook?

If so and you're on the board, why not just have the board vote to remove him form that office?

Do your bylaws say anything about good credit being a requirement to serve on the Board?

Has he been paying his dues?

JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/03/2018 4:20 PM  
We have an independent 3rd party management company, so the treasurer can't steal our funds...

I'm no longer on the board. I used to be the Treasurer and did a great job, but the residents removed me because I was the only board member trying to actually enforce the covenants (not let people park trailers in driveway etc...now people do whatever the hell they want without the HOA doing anything)

The current Treasurer used to be 1 year past due on HOA payments, and 4 months behind on his mortgage. Now I learned he pays electric late every month and gets it cut off occasionally for non-payment.

Our dues are due January 1st. Currently 1 house has NOT paid their dues, but I don't know who since I'm not on the board, but I'd bet money on it being our current treasurer.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7767


10/03/2018 4:47 PM  
Excuse me? Does anyone else see this is a PERSONAL matter and NOT a HOA one? That is truly a violation of one's privacy to run one's mouth about this situation. I would SO be beyond angry if some neighbor did this to me. You do NOT know the whole story. Plus them being the HOA treasurer doesn't mean they run the HOA's money like their own.

So before you run your mouth. Think about how you would feel if someone did this to you? Seriously people this is just WRONG!

Former HOA President
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/03/2018 5:05 PM  
Melissa,

So if you found out your HOA treasurer was 1 year past due on HOA dues, 4 months behind on mortgage, and had their electricity cut off for nonpayment after 15 months of being late, you would be OK with them staying on as your Treasurer? Come on I doubt it.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7767


10/03/2018 5:27 PM  
I would say it's NONE of my business. It would not have been someone would have elected in the first place. However, they were elected to that office. So it's up to the board to remove them if they want. However, it should be based on JOB performance.

Besides how do you know so much personal information about this person? Seems kind of sketchy...

Former HOA President
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5961


10/03/2018 5:28 PM  
The thing is, Jeremy. He has no access to HOA $$. It is up to the Board whether to keep him on as treasurer. And they DO know who's behind on their dues.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2319


10/03/2018 6:40 PM  
Is he behind in his dues? Do your documents state that delinquent homeowners can't serve on the board? If the answer to these questions is yes, you remove him for THAT reason. Whatever's going on between him and the electric company is between them and none of your business.

In later responses, you said you were removed (voted out or recalled?) because you "were the only board member trying to enforce the covenants." Frankly, I think there's a lot more there there if you're vindictive enough to spread this man's personal business throughout the neighborhood. Your options are BS and until you grow up, I suggest you stay away from association business - you don't have the temperament.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/03/2018 6:42 PM  
Shelia,

1 house out of our 50 hasn't paid their 2018 dues that are now 10 months late.
Since I'm not on the board, I don't know who it is. But the Treasurer was 12 months late 2 years ago, so I'd bet it's them again.

The documents say they can serve on the board, but the board can remove them as well without needing a vote by the residents.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2319


10/03/2018 6:48 PM  
You're not on the board, so whoever it is or isn't still isn't your business - as long as the board has taken the appropriate steps to collect, that's all you need to concern yourself with. And just because the man was late 2 years ago doesn't mean he's late now.

Really, Jeremy, stay out of this before you do something that everyone will regret - your threatening to blab the man's business in front of everyone can't end well. Even if he leaves the board, karma is a bitch and I don't think you want her looking in your direction.....
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16050


10/03/2018 7:10 PM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 10/03/2018 3:38 PM

What would you do?




I would first and foremost give the notice to the individual.
As a neighbor, I would ask if there is anything I can do (short of giving funds).
As a neighbor and a member, I would inform the individual that I believe this issue should be brought to the board and offer him an opportunity to present it to the board himself or I would at the next board meeting.

I would be aware that I may be losing a friend (or a friendly neighbor) because of this.

I would also offer to serve as Treasurer to the Board.


Jeremy,

You didn't state if you are on the board or not. Are you on the board?

I also get the impression that you and your neighbor are not on friendly terms (based on your desire to bring this to the whole community vs. the board).
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/03/2018 7:20 PM  
Shelia, the board has done nothing for collection on the past due account besides adding a $20 late fee.

Tim, I'm not on the board. I used to be the treasurer (and have a background/Master's degree in Finance), but the residents voted to remove me because I was the only 1 trying to enforce the covenants (stop people from parking trailers in driveways, yards with 80% weeds, grass 18-24 inches high, big oil spills in driveways, etc)

Our HOA only has 1 meeting per year that's open to the residents, and 1 private board meeting per year.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16050


10/03/2018 8:06 PM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 10/03/2018 7:20 PM

Our HOA only has 1 meeting per year that's open to the residents, and 1 private board meeting per year.




That's different from what I'm used to.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2525


10/03/2018 8:53 PM  
I wouldn't do anything. It's his business, not yours.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7872


10/04/2018 5:21 AM  
Jeremy

This sounds like a personal vendetta versus a business decision. Him being behind is none of your nor the HOA's business.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:79


10/04/2018 5:47 AM  
If I were in the OP's position, I would:

* Tape the notice to the neighbor's front door, although I'm sure the neighbor is well aware that non-payment can lead to shutoff of the service.

* Not disclose to anyone else, although my answer would change if the treasurer had access to the HOA's money (big red flag there). A former board member should know that disclosing private info about a member of the HOA is a a no-no, and in my mind disclosing such would disqualify that person from serving on the board in the future since I'd question the person's judgement.

* Sell my home. Why live with the disadvantages of being in an HOA if you don't have any of the advantages (ie, proper enforcement of the restrictions and diligent collection efforts)?
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:107


10/04/2018 6:09 AM  
I'm horrified that you would even consider sending this to all your neighbors. That is a gross violation of privacy and frankly just gross. Give your neighbor his misdirected mail and mind your own business.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/04/2018 6:38 AM  
Barbara,

To be clear, it wasn't mail. It was a notice taped to my front door from the electric company. No envelope, no stamp.
But I'm sure that won't change your opinion, just wanted to clarify so people don't think I'm guilty of opening somebody else's mail.
ND
(PA)

Posts:213


10/04/2018 7:56 AM  
What I’m gathering from most posters here is that they’d be perfectly comfortable if someone with an inability to manage their personal finances was on their HOA Board helping to manage their HOA corporation’s finances and make other important decisions on behalf of all owners. I doubt it.

I do agree that relaying the electric co. info to other neighbors is not appropriate.

It seems the rest of your neighbors may not really care anyway. And they’re oblivious to the entire situation because they don’t have the full knowledge you’ve gained over the years. Unfortunately you’d end up being the bad guy if you tried to force this individual to resign by shaming him. And in attempting to further explain to your neighbors the rationale for getting him off the Board, you’d also have to relay his mortgage trouble and HOA assessment-paying issues. But doing that also would not be appropriate.

You’re in a no-win situation, and I wouldn’t let your previous issues with this neighbor cloud good judgment at this latest “opportunity”.

I would make a copy of the flyer for potential future need and get the original immediately and anonymously to the neighbor.

Unless there are some important and immediate needs to remove this individual from the Board, I’d just wait to see how things play out into the future. I think CathyA3’s last bullet might be the best advice so far. Seems like apathy has overcome your HOA and it would be a difficult, lonesome battle to stay in that neighborhood and try to turn the apathy around.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/04/2018 8:29 AM  
Selling my house and moving is too drastic I think...
Could sell for $275k - 6% realtor fee and $2k moving costs...

That would cost me $18,500 to move.

Doesn't seem like there's any good solution to this.
CarolF
(Florida)

Posts:411


10/04/2018 2:16 PM  
This is from the Florida Statutes. Anything similar in your state?

Chapter 720 Section 306 - 2017 Florida Statutes - The ...
www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2017/720.306

A person serving as a board member who becomes more than 90 days delinquent in the payment of any fee, fine, or other monetary obligation to the association shall be deemed to have abandoned his or her seat on the board, creating a vacancy on the board to be filled according to law.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/04/2018 4:06 PM  
Carol,

I'm not seeing anything similiar after a quick search

North Carolina: https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByChapter/Chapter_47F.pdf
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7767


10/04/2018 6:37 PM  
Let's put a human spin on this. What is causing this Treasurer to not meet paying their bills? Your treating them like they are some kind of financial deadbeat. It seems strange that a person all of sudden is not paying a mortgage, dues, or electric bills. Have they become unemployed? Have health issues? Was there some kind of life event that is now effecting this person?

I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Plus is the HOA having financial issues besides the 1 collection? It's not a one person job to run the budget. It's not like the Treasurer decides how the bills are paid. They are told to pay them and make sure enough money is there for the checks to pass. Our HOA we have a 2 signature system. So it's more than 1 person signing the checks.

Former HOA President
JenniferG12
(Texas)

Posts:103


10/06/2018 3:05 AM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 10/03/2018 5:05 PM
Melissa,

So if you found out your HOA treasurer was 1 year past due on HOA dues, 4 months behind on mortgage, and had their electricity cut off for nonpayment after 15 months of being late, you would be OK with them staying on as your Treasurer? Come on I doubt it.




I think the only relevant part is being behind on HOA dues. Does your state/your docs call for board members having to be 'in good standing'? Texas, for HOAs but not condos, did away with this. No docs that say board members must be in good standing are valid anymore. They can serve.
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1325


10/06/2018 2:10 PM  
Jeremy,

This is none of the HOA's business nor is it a concern of any of the Treasurer's neighbors. Your strategies are quite malicious and I sincerely hope purposeful malice isn't your intent.
JoyceR2
(Virginia)

Posts:137


10/09/2018 12:01 AM  
Good point.
AugustinD


Posts:1222


10/09/2018 10:13 AM  
JeremyM3, the Treasurer is not behind on his HOA dues. There is nothing in your governing documents justifying removal when a person is not keeping up with other, non-HOA debts owed or not managing his personal finances the way you or I would prefer. Furthermore, for all you know the electric company might have made a mistake. You cannot know without delving further into the Treasurer's private affairs.

If I could re-write the law, I would prohibit anyone who had less than 20% equity in their home from serving on a HOA board or even being a HOA member. But we each have our own way of managing our finances and loans. My personal finance standards are not anyone else's standards. I think his has to be respected until the law says otherwise. This Treasurer's personal debts are not anyone's business but his own.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7872


10/09/2018 7:54 PM  
So Jeremy after all the comments, what do yo have to say?
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/09/2018 7:56 PM  
I put in a request to our management company to find out which lot has unpaid dues still.

Per NC law, the board must give the information if requested.

If the unpaid dues are the Treasurer that had his electric turned off, then I will decide what to do from there.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7872


10/09/2018 8:09 PM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 10/09/2018 7:56 PM
I put in a request to our management company to find out which lot has unpaid dues still.

Per NC law, the board must give the information if requested.

If the unpaid dues are the Treasurer that had his electric turned off, then I will decide what to do from there.




The unpaid dues could be valid, depending on your Bylaws yet it still says you are being vindictive.
JeremyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:107


10/10/2018 5:15 AM  
John,

If they have unpaid dues as well, I will request they resign for that. If they refuse, I will make it public knowledge to the community that the Treasurer is not paying their dues. I will most likely keep the electric info private.
AugustinD


Posts:1222


10/10/2018 7:34 AM  
Posted By JeremyM3 on 10/10/2018 5:15 AM
If they have unpaid dues as well, I will request they resign for that. If they refuse, I will make it public knowledge to the community that the Treasurer is not paying their dues.


If my HOA's treasurer was delinquent in his or her HOA dues, I would want to know. I would also not support a board who would appoint such a person as treasurer. Regardless of what a HOA's governing documents say, I believe case law nationwide supports disallowing a person delinquent in paying his or her HOA dues from serving as a HOA director or HOA officer.
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