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Subject: Voting for HOA related votes, vs deed restriction changes voting.
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Author Messages
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 3:51 PM  
In the deed restrictions it has language that appears that each LOT owner gets a VOTE.

In the by-laws handbook it a person in a house gets a vote, but if you pay 5.00 more you can have your spouse vote to.

Correct me if I am wrong.

By-laws stipulate voting for home owner association voting i.e. bylaw changes or voting for a president.

Deed restriction voting is totally its own rules, and if someone owns 5 lots, they get to vote 5 times?

If this is not the case, how does one get to the bottom of deed restrictions (covenants) that run with the land voting? Is that state statues? or just what the verbiage is in the last version of the deed restrictions?

I feel that if you own multiple lots you get multiple votes, but I gotta be able to prove it.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2751


07/02/2018 3:57 PM  
I call BS
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5389


07/02/2018 3:58 PM  
Noah, It's always best to use the exact words of your covenants, in this case, about how many votes an owner gets. It's typical that they get one for every lot they own.

Please give us the exact words of your bylaws about the $5.00 & you get two votes per house. I've never heard of that and maybe others haven't either. Does it say to "vote for the president"???? Covenants (CC&Rs) are stronger than bylaws, so IF your bylaws say what you claim, they contradict your covenants and can't be enforced.

There is a good article in the News section today about FL HOAs that you should read.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 4:01 PM  
What do you mean you call b.s.

it IS b.s. that the president , vice president and the whole board has no idea what their doing.....but its because nobody is making them accountiable but me and 30 other people around here.

To give a example they have had NO record of our bylaw book til 2 months ago.

What does our dictator president do the DAY he gets that book, sits down and crosses out what he does not understand, and rewrites how he would LIKE things to run.

He is the same presidnet that at his 3rd meeting said "any community memembers that attend a board meeting cannot talk just listen"

Now I repeat. since their is talks about a massive vote to butcher the deed restrictions.......does each LOT owner even if it is the same owner get to vote as many times as they have a lot? Or does one owner even if its 4 lots get 1 vote?

I don't know if this is a state statue? or what, I'm just trying to find out how one would figure it out, as our deed restrictions say each lot owner gets 1 vote.

But in our bylaws and constitution book it says "each paid member gets a 1 vote and 2 votes for a househould if you pay 5.00 more.

I'm just trying to see how many votes I can get to make sure they bad guys don't rig the vote to allow livestock in what could be a nice community if they would get rid of these filthy chickens.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 4:17 PM  
Section 2. Voting Rights
Each individual property owner, whose dues are currently paid, is entitled to one vote on
each matter put before the voting membership.

Ok , yes I guess someone misinfomred me the ONLY verbage in the deed resctrions says below.

A clear majority of the lot owners may make reasonable modifications,
amendments or additions to these restrictions applicable to the said lots, provided,
however, that any such additional restrictive covenants or modifications or
amendments thereto shall not affect the lien of any mortgage then encumbering
any of the said and shall not affect the rights and powers of any mortgagees under
said mortgages, unless modified.


So I guess who told me that was wrong. But at the meetings historically, if a household of a husband and wife paid 5.00 dollars more they got 2 votes . and it was maximum 2 votes for househould, 1 vote for single person. or 1 vote is the couple only paid 5.00 dollars less.



So I guess its one vote per house. Where I got the 5 dollars extra for a 2nd vote came from a newsletter which is pretty much legally non-since.

Please remember that ALL ASSOCIATION AND BEAUTIFICATION FEES are due 1/31/06. Our voluntary association
fees remain at $5.00 for individuals or $10.00 per family. In addition the beautification and maintenance fees are
$ 15.00 per household.

THIS IS THE ONLY VERBIAGE the word voluntary shows up is in newsletters.

Their is no word VOLUNTARY in the deed restrictions or the constitution and bylaw book.

I'm living in a community where over 1/2 the people think the deed restrictions are voluntary
some say the dues are, and I can see why as the newsletters starting in the mid 90s started putting it in their.

The president even to this day has no idea if we are under the 720, or if the deed restrictions are mandatory or not. He just tells people that unless we resubmit deed restrictions to the county and put up a sign that says were "now going to start enforcing things" we can't do anything til then.

Who knows maybe he is right about that. Hes been wrong about alot though.


KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5389


07/02/2018 4:19 PM  
Noah, again, give us the exact words in the covenants & in the bylaws or we cannot reply.

What, by the way, is the real name of what you call a "Constitution Book?"

I think Richard wrote BS because he thinks you're a troll. But I'm not sure.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 4:25 PM  
I'm not a troll.

The cover of the book has picture of front entrance.

The first words opening it up say.

Constitution and Bylaws

NAME OF DEVELOPMENT HERE

Preamble

Then it starts rattling off about how the development started

Then it goes Article 1 ADDRESS
Article II Constituency
Seciton 1. membership
Section 2. Voting rights...

That is where i got the voting rights form......so what this books "name " should be called I dont know as it don't have anything on the cover of it except a pciture.

I have a 1991 version that says name of development and it says "Constitution and bylaws 1999" at the bottom of cover.

In the DEED restrictions, the ONLY area it talks about voting at all it says.


Section 10.01 is hereby amended to read:
A clear majority of the lot owners may make reasonable modifications,
amendments or additions to these restrictions applicable to the said lots, provided,
however, that any such additional restrictive covenants or modifications or
amendments thereto shall not affect the lien of any mortgage then encumbering
any of the said and shall not affect the rights and powers of any mortgagees under
said mortgages, unless modified.
Signed, scaled and delivered
in the presence of:

I wish I was a troll just giving you guys a hard time. This civic association every extra piece of news letters from the past, and the lack of any professionals...makes me think they should make a TV show about what happens when a HOA is ran by a butch of volunteers that dont know anything.



NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 4:29 PM  
Just a example form a 2008 newsletter...



2008 Current Fees are:
Beautification Fees $15.00
and
Individual Membership $5.00 or Family Membership $10.00


they always for whatever reason had 5.00 to vote for 1 person.....and 10.00 if 2 people wanted to vote.

Now where they legally have that right to do so , i have no idea.

I just know that reading on the internet it says that when DEED restrictions are going to change, that every LOT owner gets a vote, and it should be a FREE vote , not have to pay to vote.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2751


07/02/2018 4:45 PM  
Here is the reason for calling BS.

You CANNOT change the CCRs that states one vote per lot, unit, whatever, which some BS language in the Rules or Bylaws. It is against the law, so to speak.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 4:47 PM  
Ok cool,

So since your saying that as a fact.

If one person owns 20 lots. they should be able to get 20 votes correct?
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2751


07/02/2018 4:58 PM  
Posted By NoahA on 07/02/2018 4:47 PM
Ok cool,

So since your saying that as a fact.

If one person owns 20 lots. they should be able to get 20 votes correct?




Depends entirely on the verbiage of the CCRs. If you were developer and owned 20 lots, you could have 60 votes or 100 votes. These are based on keeping a developer in complete control while they are building the community. Once they leave and turn control over to homeowners the language of two classes of members should disappear.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 5:00 PM  
The developer sold it off to another company, then that company turned it over to the HOA to run things on their own as the 30 years is up.

What i posted above is the ONLY line and verbiage in the deed restrictions.

So I guess its 1 vote per lot , regardless of paying dues or regardless of how many lots you own.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 6:10 PM  
This is the kinda @#$#@ i get from this punk. (the illegally elected hoa dictator presidnet)

I sent a email saying I wanted the meeting notes form 4 seperate dates.

His reply below.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Noah,

Why not tell us what point you made and we can go from there?

Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I write back

If your denying me access to records, just put it in writing and we can handle this another way.
Otherwise hand over the 4 meeting notes. I request on 7 2 2018. Their is a deadline for written requested records.

Noah

-------------------------------------------------------------------

He writes back
Noah,
I did not deny you any records. Why would you not just tell us what your point is and save us the effort?

Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I write back

-------------------------------------------------------------------
You got 10 days. or plan on jean writing me a nice check.

that would be 2000.00 check. *500.00 for each record denied.

Its up to you, you can't brow beat me with money. This could work out well, I'd prefer the money but I'll just settle for the papers I asked for.

The only email I want to see back are 4 attachments of what I asked for , or you can have jean mail me a check, its your choice but I'm not going to have you waste any more of my time with this fruitless banter.

720.303(5)
(b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association’s willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.

Well have a 500.00 check for each record denied payable to Noah,

If you do not want to provide me with these records in digital format. On the July 16th I except a 2000.00 check if you wish to withhold the records.




-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2228


07/02/2018 6:48 PM  
Posted By NoahA on 07/02/2018 6:10 PM
If you do not want to provide me with these records in digital format. On the July 16th I except a 2000.00 check if you wish to withhold the records.

That's not really how it works. It's not that simple. You have to submit a written request for access to the records. You do not need to state any reason for wanting to see them, but it should be sent certified mail, return receipt requested.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/02/2018 7:22 PM  
Well for him asking me back on the same night, that is pretty solid proof they got my written request.

But ill mail out one to the POBOX they rarely check, and that way I might acutally get my 2000.00 outta it , since I am asking for 4 records.

GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2228


07/02/2018 9:19 PM  
Posted By NoahA on 07/02/2018 7:22 PM
Well for him asking me back on the same night, that is pretty solid proof they got my written request.

No they didn't. You don't listen.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:243


07/02/2018 10:06 PM  
I think you are being way too confrontational. Does Bob know exactly what you want? I don't, from what you wrote. You want the minutes from 4 meetings?

I would try asking more politely and leaving off the threats, being very clear and concise in what you are seeking.

It it is not forthcoming, go the certified mail route, with the understanding that until they receive it, your clock for charging them money or whatever doesn't start until they do. Perhaps send it to their attorney at the same time if they don't check the POB often.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:349


07/03/2018 5:12 AM  
Noah,

I don’t know you at all, but if you sent me an email like that I would tell you to submit your request and we would follow Florida law in responding. I would then do what was legally required.

I would also put you in the category of obnoxious jerk.

Btw - any judge hearing your case would put you you in the category of a property owner who is trying to cause trouble.

Dude, you need to chill and be more cooperative.
NoahA
(Florida)

Posts:199


07/03/2018 6:44 AM  
No obnoxious is a quazi president who tells community members at the board meetings that , "they can only observe and watch" and that the board member's will be the ones doing the talking , voting and making decisions.

Obnoxious is the quazi president who tells people he wants to abolish the architectural control committee so the HOA board can call all the shots even though the ACC is one of 2 factions required by the 720 law. He clearly never read any of the rules that govern his position, and when we was sworn he never read the by-laws , he was only gave that bylaws book in MAY of 2018. I asked him if he ever seen those before and he said NO. So that is grounds to have him removed.

Obnoxious is a president that tells people who are mowing lawns in the area that they have no business mowing lawns here if their not licensed with the county to mow lawns, while he himself does the same thing for other people.

Obnoxious is a quazi president who says he wants to INCLUDE after the fact into the deed restrictions that dues payments are mandatory and raise the rate while doing so. (this is not legal to do )

Obnoxious is a quazi president who when I email a request for records, wants to play jeopardy on the WHY I want the records, instead of just emailing them back to me.

Obnoxious is a quazi president that that refuses to tell people burning soiled toilet paper & plastic in a burn barrel in their backyard to stop doing so

Obnoxious is a quazi president that tells old women at meetings that community members that walk their dogs that @##@$ all over the road , the "Best he can do is address it in the community newsletter and if that don't work he cant do anything else"

Obnoxious is a quazi president that says if someone owns 5 houses here, they can only vote once.

Obnoxious is a quazi president that no matter how many times people tell him that deed restriction regulations are not the same rules for by-laws change proceidures , he just claims to have a bad memory and "all this stuff is too confusion to underrated"

Obnoxious is a quazi president that can't even speak clearly. His email to another community memeber said .
QUOTE:
The next board meeting we will be addressing my resignation which will take place in July.

Does that above sentence mean at the board meeting he will be just flapping his gums about considering stepping down? Or does that mean at the meeting he WILL BE resigning ?

I mean I've never meet anyone more incompetent ever.

He is literally the president of ONE person. ONE peron at a non publicized meeting made a single motion to "Elect bob president". Their was no VOTE by the present board members, and if people can't understand this is hands down the worst HOA gaggle of people in the history of the universe, they just won't ever understand.

This guy can't even keep the neighborhood kids from playing in HIS OWN FRONT YARD....so he can't command the respect from his own neighbors on his own street, their is no hope for him to get any charge of the entire community.

I hope this clears up why I don't want to send him any emails unless I need them.

But me asking "Hey I would like the 4 secretary notes from these 4 board meetings" It does not get any nicer or more non-confrontation than that.

But instead of doing what the community asks him to do (its not like I'm asking for a ton of papers and I have not asked for anything in months)

He starts making a game to wonder about the hows and the whys and today Ill just print out same request and send it certified with return receipt and if he ends up ignoring my request I'll just make $$$$ for him failing to do so.

The guy is TOTALLY incompetent . The reason I do not want to tell him why I want those papers is that he is not beyond re-typing up those notes to LEAVE OUT COMPLAINTS I have been making for years. So I can't tell him the specifics of fwhy at those meetings I want them, but if he had eyes to see, he would just read the notes and it would be abundantly clear why I want that set of notes.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:243


07/03/2018 7:15 AM  
Posted By NoahA on 07/03/2018 6:44 AM
No obnoxious is a quazi president who tells community members at the board meetings that , "they can only observe and watch" and that the board member's will be the ones doing the talking , voting and making decisions.





Under open board meeting law in Texas, this would be correct. It might be for your state as well.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:349


07/03/2018 8:19 AM  
Noah,

Quit the ranting and work on taking the Board apart by action that is outlined in Chapter 720 and your CC&Rs.

You are going about it completely wrong.

Take a breath, learn what you need to know and then act.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:243


07/03/2018 9:25 AM  
Agree. Noah, you are freaking out. Nothing productive is going to come from that.
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