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Subject: Tie between two board candidates
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Author Messages
DanielL3
(Louisiana)

Posts:54


07/01/2018 7:06 PM  
Our Board has come to the conclusion that wording should be added to the bylaws for breaking a tie. The simple answer is to have the remaining members, which can be 10 to 30, at the Annual Meeting to revote and break the tie.


I personally think the entire community should partake in electing a Board member who would serve the next two years.
20 - 30 people should not have that power.

What say ye members?
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2993


07/01/2018 7:10 PM  
Draw straws
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:569


07/01/2018 7:12 PM  
I would think it more appropriate for the two to flip a coin, draw straws, or draw cards ...keep it simple.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2349


07/01/2018 7:26 PM  
Flip a coin.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2993


07/01/2018 7:54 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 07/01/2018 7:26 PM
Flip a coin.



One hand of Texas hold-em
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:436


07/01/2018 8:09 PM  
Posted By DanielL3 on 07/01/2018 7:06 PM
Our Board has come to the conclusion that wording should be added to the bylaws for breaking a tie. The simple answer is to have the remaining members, which can be 10 to 30, at the Annual Meeting to revote and break the tie.


I personally think the entire community should partake in electing a Board member who would serve the next two years.
20 - 30 people should not have that power.

What say ye members?




I would not want to have another election, I don't think. I would probably go with the option of the members at the meeting, but I would stipulate that in the mailer that goes out ahead of time, perhaps encouraging people to come, or to designate someone who will be there as their proxy to vote in the event of a tie.

This post sort of makes my head hurt, lol. We're already having a second election due to not meeting quorum, I had not thought of what if there is a tie this time?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5654


07/02/2018 12:57 PM  
Straws or coin flip are what I've seen when this question has come up.

I don't much care for the idea of those in attendance making the decision. It favors owner-occupants who live full time in the HOA. But ours has 25-28% landlords and another 10% who live here only part time. For owners present to make this decision discriminates against the two groups I mentioned. In addition, we have a fair number of active military, who are away a lot, and others who travel a lot on weekdays in their work.

If your Board insists on this, make sure it still would only one vote per household as couples often attend.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2251


07/02/2018 1:34 PM  
I'd go with a coin flip or drawing straws. However, it would be great to keep the other person involved somehow - how about placing him/her on an advisory committee (if he/she is exceptionally talented, that's your chairperson).

Kerry, I understand you're wanting a variety of people to participate in an election like this and I agree that's the preferred setup, but it also seems to me if these landlords and part time owners were really interested in what goes on in the HOA, they'd make time to attend an annual meeting or at least appoint a proxy (if your community has that option) to show up and speak up, and vote on their behalf. We're not talking about attending every meeting - the annual occurs once a year, so planning is a virtue (obviously emergencies wouldn't count).

Granted, I say this because I'm an owner-occupant myself and tend to lean towards folks like me anyway. Too often the ratios are reversed - you have a large percentage of landlord/owners who don't give a rat's behind about the association, only the rent checks they get every month, leaving the few owner-occupants to try and run the show because no one else will do it (because they aren't around). Home ownership isn't a spectator sport, especially in a HOA, and sometimes you need get up and go see and hear for your own dang self (maybe some of these people would learn something!)
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5654


07/02/2018 1:55 PM  
In CA, Sheila, we can vote by secret ballot by mail. This is, I believe the reason we don't have any trouble achieving quorum. I've done an informal count of who voted and absentee owners vote just as often as owner occupants. But many if not most landlords live far away-WI, MI, etc., etc., as do most part-timers.

Good idea about placing the short-straw person in an advisory role. Many bylaws permit the addition of an "officer" if the Board feels it needs one to be called whatever the Board allows. This person could then attend meetings though they'd have no vote, which would help them learn a lot for the next election or in the event of a resignation.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:569


07/02/2018 4:38 PM  
Daniel ...are you still there?
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2993


07/02/2018 4:59 PM  
Daniel left with Elvis.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:436


07/02/2018 7:51 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/02/2018 1:55 PM
In CA, Sheila, we can vote by secret ballot by mail. This is, I believe the reason we don't have any trouble achieving quorum. I've done an informal count of who voted and absentee owners vote just as often as owner occupants. But many if not most landlords live far away-WI, MI, etc., etc., as do most part-timers.





How does secret ballot assist in making quorum?
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2993


07/02/2018 8:21 PM  
I would like that answer too.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:531


07/02/2018 8:40 PM  
I think you could run into some issues by allowing some members (those present) to vote to break the tie. You would be giving those members more power than others over choosing the board members. If the members are going to decide, they all should have the opportunity to vote, which would require another election.

A better solution would be to keep it simple with a coin toss.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5654


07/02/2018 8:46 PM  
Mail in ballots mean no one must attend the annual meeting in person. And there are no need for proxies. No one votes by proxie here anymore because they can just mail in their secret ballot.

Even if a voter doesn't feel like they want to choose directors, there's a space to chai that says something like "for purposes of quorum only."

Of our 200+ units, we need 25% of qualified voters for quorum, i.e., roughly 56. We always get about 85 ballots returned in person or by mail.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:531


07/02/2018 8:53 PM  
I can't answer for Kerry but we vote by ballot also, even those members who show up for the annual meeting. The ballots don't count towards a quorum but, since everyone votes by ballot, the election is not part of the meeting. If we don't have a quorum, we can't have the meeting but the election still stands.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:436


07/02/2018 9:16 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/02/2018 8:46 PM
Mail in ballots mean no one must attend the annual meeting in person. And there are no need for proxies. No one votes by proxie here anymore because they can just mail in their secret ballot.

Even if a voter doesn't feel like they want to choose directors, there's a space to chai that says something like "for purposes of quorum only."

Of our 200+ units, we need 25% of qualified voters for quorum, i.e., roughly 56. We always get about 85 ballots returned in person or by mail.




OK, I was wondering how the secret part helps,, but from what you wrote I am not sure it does. We can also mail in ours, or email them.

If they are secret, how does anyone check that the voters are eligible to vote?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5654


07/02/2018 10:57 PM  
The "secret" part doesn't help achieve quorum, it just assures voters that no one knows who they voted for. So, this secrecy might encourage some to vote who would not if they identity is known. This means they don't have to worry about retaliation, etc. in situations where the voter & for whom they voted are known to someone. I don't know what that's like but have heard about it plenty of times on this forum.

Whether in person or by US mail in CA, the ballot is in an inside envelope with nothing to identify the voter on it. The outside mailing envelope has the member's HOA address on it as well as the voter's signature. When the ballot comes in, our property manager checks off their name from our list of owners. A few owners still like to vote in person at the annual meetings, and an inspector of election checks off their names from a list of Owners. So we all could know who voted, but not for whom they voted.

This is because when it's time to tally the votes, the outside envelopes are opened and discarded. Then all of the inside envelopes are sort of shuffled and then opened and counted by our three inspectors. Any Owner may observe the tabulation of ballots, but may not speak to the inspectors.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:436


07/03/2018 2:37 AM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/02/2018 10:57 PM
The "secret" part doesn't help achieve quorum, it just assures voters that no one knows who they voted for. So, this secrecy might encourage some to vote who would not if they identity is known. This means they don't have to worry about retaliation, etc. in situations where the voter & for whom they voted are known to someone. I don't know what that's like but have heard about it plenty of times on this forum.

Whether in person or by US mail in CA, the ballot is in an inside envelope with nothing to identify the voter on it. The outside mailing envelope has the member's HOA address on it as well as the voter's signature. When the ballot comes in, our property manager checks off their name from our list of owners. A few owners still like to vote in person at the annual meetings, and an inspector of election checks off their names from a list of Owners. So we all could know who voted, but not for whom they voted.

This is because when it's time to tally the votes, the outside envelopes are opened and discarded. Then all of the inside envelopes are sort of shuffled and then opened and counted by our three inspectors. Any Owner may observe the tabulation of ballots, but may not speak to the inspectors.




OK, thanks for the info!
DanielL3
(Louisiana)

Posts:54


07/03/2018 6:08 PM  
The HOA has absentee balloting and the procedure is outlined in the bylaws.
By tossing a coin, if both candidates agree, I see no problems because it is the candidate making the decision.
The absentee votes are counted and add to the quorum. Last year we had close to 50 households attending the meeting.
There were approximately 53 households voting absentee. By the time the vote was announced there were maybe 15 households
Present. Having 15 households elect a board member for 2 years is denying those others their right to vote to break the tie.
Even if is announced prior to the meeting how a tie will be broken, the absentees are still not involved in the process.
After all, this is a meeting of the membership and the only time votes are cast by the membership to elect their board.
Another election involving the tied candidates could be completed in less than 14 days.
In our HOA, THE BOARD officers are elected during a board meeting following the Annual Meeting. Interim officers can run
The HOA for two weeks.
DanielL3
(Louisiana)

Posts:54


07/03/2018 6:10 PM  
Thank ya, thank ya, thank ya very much.
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Tie between two board candidates



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