Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Tuesday, November 13, 2018
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!


SBCA: Free education for HOAs and condos on satellite placement issues.
(National Trade Organization)
Helping HOAs, condos and property managers with satellite placement issues since 1986.
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Screened in porches on Limited Common Property
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:40


07/01/2018 5:28 AM  
We are a 36 year old, 20 buildings, 144 unit, stacked 2 story condo HOA.

Approximately 15 years ago, maybe longer, someone on the Board wanted to screen in their back porch. Other units followed and now we have around 12 screened in back porches. If ARC requests were approved they are located in one of the 7 boxes of files I have in my bedroom waiting for me to purge.

We are in the middle of a massive project replacing all the front and rear railings from wood to aluminum. We have been working in sections thanks to a wonderful vendor we found. First front, then second story railings beginning with the most posing a safety risk. Lower level back railings will be replaced last. Project is expected to take 2 more years as monies are available.

Due to our floor plans, we are able to complete the ones with no screening first. However, the time will come when we must schedule those.

My question is how do we deal with the screened in porches? Most are in very poor shape as they were not maintained by the owner as their limited common property. The wood railings are incorporated into the screening. Who pays the extra for the labor to remove them? Are we required to replace the screening? We anticipate issues with owners and the current Board has not/will not be approving screening.

We will consult our attorney, but was wondering if anyone tackled something like this before.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
AugustinD


Posts:1139


07/01/2018 6:28 AM  
I would be reading your HOA's governing documents closely to get clarity on who has maintenance responsibility for what. Is it clear the HOA has maintenance responsibility for the railings? Also is there a section that talks about owners making improvements to their limited common areas and who has the maintenance responsibility for the improvements?

Perhaps the HOA can put the burden on the screened-in porch owners to remove xyz so that the contractor has the same access to the railings as those without screens.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7713


07/01/2018 7:00 AM  
I say the HOA pays for the same standard work they are doing and the owner pays for their screened sections. I don't think the screen part is on the HOA's bill. It was just an approved "Upgrade" the HOA choose to allow. It's kind of the risk one takes on when doing such things. Eventually work was going to be needing done, so by installing the screening was a risk they took.

I'd treat it like any other porch with the owner's knowing where the line is. Which is any "extras" they did will be on them to pay for. The HOA did not pay for it in the first place just approved.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:746


07/01/2018 9:05 AM  
PatJ1,

You think you might have the ARC approvals in one of the boxes?

I would go there first - see if there was ARC approval - or, ask the owners for their copy of the approval. If no approvals, or even submissions, this sounds easier.

If paperwork is in order, then it gets harder ...
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7812


07/01/2018 2:56 PM  
The bottom line is the old screen porches were attached to the old wooden railing. Now the HOA is replacing the wooden railings with new metal railings so the question is who pays for detaching the screen porch fasteners from the wooden railing and who pays to reattach the screen porches to the metal railing.

I say detaching the screen porches from the railings is part of removing the old railings. I say reattaching the screen porches to the new railing should be a chargeable item and billed to the owner(s).
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5842


07/01/2018 3:56 PM  
I think the Owners should pay for everything involving their screens. The screens are not common area and they are not limited common area for which your HOA is responsible. I can't see why all owners should pay (via their dues) for a few of their neighbors' personal choice & property.

I'd stick with my above even if ARC approval.

At this time, it might be a good idea for your Board or ARC to come up with guidelines for screening these porches if the Board agrees to continue to permit the activity.

KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5842


07/01/2018 3:59 PM  
II think the Owners should pay for everything involving their screens. The screens are not common area and they are not limited common area for which your HOA is responsible. I can't see why all owners should pay (via their dues) for a few of their neighbors' personal choice & property.

I'd stick with my above even if ARC approval.

At this time, it might be a good idea for your Board or ARC to come up with guidelines for screening these porches if the Board agrees to continue to permit the activity. Make sure someone who knows about such things advises you on the acceptable materials and methods for the new screens.

GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:746


07/01/2018 6:06 PM  
I'm trying to think this through.

Notify owners of screened porches that they have two options ... either remove/have the screened components removed in advance of the workers arriving from the replacement contractor, or contacting the replacement contractor to negotiate their "upper" for removal.

I would definitely try and smooth this through - work with the contractor to help them work with the screened area homeowners - perhaps even supply contact information for those folks so they can proactively work it - frankly, the contractor would benefit, as would the screened in owners.

Now, back to my first line of questions - if the screened porches were not approved and needed to be, now is a good time to get to work on those boxes of papers for proof.
FredS7
(Arizona)

Posts:855


07/03/2018 3:28 PM  
Probably the cost of removing the screens will be negligible.

Consider notifying owners that they can either remove the screens before the repairs or they will be removed and discarded in the course of repairs.

JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4151


07/03/2018 9:40 PM  
Posted By PatJ1 on 07/01/2018 5:28 AM
We are a 36 year old, 20 buildings, 144 unit, stacked 2 story condo HOA.

Approximately 15 years ago, maybe longer, someone on the Board wanted to screen in their back porch. Other units followed and now we have around 12 screened in back porches. If ARC requests were approved they are located in one of the 7 boxes of files I have in my bedroom waiting for me to purge.

We are in the middle of a massive project replacing all the front and rear railings from wood to aluminum. We have been working in sections thanks to a wonderful vendor we found. First front, then second story railings beginning with the most posing a safety risk. Lower level back railings will be replaced last. Project is expected to take 2 more years as monies are available.

Due to our floor plans, we are able to complete the ones with no screening first. However, the time will come when we must schedule those.

My question is how do we deal with the screened in porches? Most are in very poor shape as they were not maintained by the owner as their limited common property. The wood railings are incorporated into the screening. Who pays the extra for the labor to remove them? Are we required to replace the screening? We anticipate issues with owners and the current Board has not/will not be approving screening.

We will consult our attorney, but was wondering if anyone tackled something like this before.


From what you have stated I would guess that those with “screened porches” would potentially be responsible for their screening. UNLESS you can note from your governing documents that the HOA is responsible. Which if potentially only applies to some and not all will not be found.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7713


07/04/2018 5:12 AM  
Being approved to make a change doesn't make the HOA responsible for that change. For example: We approve any fence installation. Your allowed to have a fence as long as you pay for it, it's wood, and around 6ft high. If we had to do some work where the fence needs removed/modified, then the expense is on you. We just approve. We don't purchase or maintain. Except we can enforce that you repair or replace if it goes bad.

Former HOA President
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Screened in porches on Limited Common Property



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement