Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Tuesday, November 13, 2018
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!


SBCA: Free education for HOAs and condos on satellite placement issues.
(National Trade Organization)
Helping HOAs, condos and property managers with satellite placement issues since 1986.
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Seller has delinquent dues
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
JohnD63
(California)

Posts:4


06/26/2018 2:18 PM  
I'm treasurer of an HOA located in California. Owner of a unit is behind in HOA dues and refuses to pay because they paid for pest control and shoddy dry wall patching out of pocket without bringing anything to the HOAs attention.

The home is not in escrow but the owner is requesting the HOA documents. Can I withhold documents until the dues are paid or until the unit goes into escrow? Again the unit is not in escrow but is for sale. My concern is the unit goes into escrow and closes without the boards knowledge so we cant make a demand through escrow.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7812


06/26/2018 2:46 PM  
Slap a lien on them immediately.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3107


06/26/2018 2:56 PM  
How much do they owe? If the amount is substantial, why wasn't anything done until the last minute.

Sorry, JohnC46, you can't just slap a lien on a property, especially in California and it's something you should know from experience. It will take a minimum of 76 days to "slap" a lien.

Do you handle your own escrows or have someone do them for you. Don't EVER without documents during a selling process. Make sure that whoever does the demand fills the form out ACCURATELY and CORRECTLY!
JohnD63
(California)

Posts:4


06/26/2018 3:16 PM  
We have been on them for months. The owner simply ignores our demands. They feel justified in not paying November and December dues because they had out of pocket expenses.

We looked into getting a lien but figured it was more trouble than it's worth. Again they are trying to sell the unit but as far as we know there's no offers and it's not in escrow. They just want the HOA docs ahead of time.

We got advice from a nonattorney to refuse HOA documents unless it's from an escrow officer as we can make a demand through escrow once we know who the escrow is.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3107


06/26/2018 3:27 PM  
Posted By JohnD63 on 06/26/2018 3:16 PM
We have been on them for months. The owner simply ignores our demands. They feel justified in not paying November and December dues because they had out of pocket expenses.

We looked into getting a lien but figured it was more trouble than it's worth. Again they are trying to sell the unit but as far as we know there's no offers and it's not in escrow. They just want the HOA docs ahead of time.

We got advice from a nonattorney to refuse HOA documents unless it's from an escrow officer as we can make a demand through escrow once we know who the escrow is.



My old HOA said that about an owner, that it was more trouble than it is worth and now they are $20,000.00 behind. The lien protects the HOA, the same one that you are the treasurer of.

Are you self-managed? Do you do your own escrows?

Good Luck
JohnD63
(California)

Posts:4


06/26/2018 4:03 PM  
They have paid subsequent dues but have not paid two months in 2017. The question is can we withhold HOA docs until requested by escrow?
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3107


06/26/2018 4:12 PM  
You might be best to speak to an attorney. It's not a path I would go down.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1260


06/26/2018 4:39 PM  
Posted By JohnD63 on 06/26/2018 4:03 PM
They have paid subsequent dues but have not paid two months in 2017. The question is can we withhold HOA docs until requested by escrow?


I'm not in CA, but a quick search of the Davis-Stirling web site suggests you can't. This page:
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Escrow-Disclosures#axzz1yjimSodF

includes:
Deadline for Production. Upon written request, the association shall, within ten days of the mailing or delivery of the request, provide the owner of a separate interest, or any other recipient authorized by the owner, with a copy of the requested documents. (Civ. Code §4530.)



Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1260


06/26/2018 4:42 PM  
Posted By DouglasK1 on 06/26/2018 4:39 PM
Posted By JohnD63 on 06/26/2018 4:03 PM
They have paid subsequent dues but have not paid two months in 2017. The question is can we withhold HOA docs until requested by escrow?


I'm not in CA, but a quick search of the Davis-Stirling web site suggests you can't. This page:
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Escrow-Disclosures#axzz1yjimSodF

includes:
Deadline for Production. Upon written request, the association shall, within ten days of the mailing or delivery of the request, provide the owner of a separate interest, or any other recipient authorized by the owner, with a copy of the requested documents. (Civ. Code §4530.)



I forgot to note that the page also says:
Associations are allowed to collect a reasonable fee
and
Delivery of the documents may not be withheld for any reason nor subject to any condition except the payment of the fee

You don't say how much the owner owes, but maybe a fee could recoup some of that. Richard might have an idea what "reasonable" might encompass.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3107


06/26/2018 5:12 PM  
IF the association handles escrow correctly, they will get all of their money back.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:746


06/26/2018 5:19 PM  
Couple of points:

1. Documents are pretty easy to provide, now. If they are already in pdf format, just send them. If they have been recorded, just send them the link. Holding up documents, or even talking about it the way you did sounds silly in the age of open information.

2. If they have not paid dues, and you have suitable processes and records of their failure to pay, simply write them a letter saying they either need to pay, or you will lien the property - this starts the ball rolling. California laws must be complied with when you do this. Not liening makes zero sense and is almost a failure to act as a fiduciary of the HOA.
JohnD63
(California)

Posts:4


06/26/2018 5:41 PM  
Our HOA is small with four units. We have no website. All documents are in paper. Our bylaws and CCRs say that if documents are sent to escrow they need to be sent via certified mailed, granted they were written in the 1970s before email.

Like I said we looked into a lien and it's not worth it based on the amount owed. In California it's more complicated than paying 50 bucks or so to record a lien with the county. The attorney fee exceeds the dues owed. Like I also said they listed their house for sale and there is no escrow yet. We have never had anyone request documents before escrow, but that is likely irrelevant.

I already mentioned the concern of the house selling without anyone being notified and thus, we cant place a demand through escrow.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:746


06/26/2018 6:00 PM  
Hmmm ... first order of business, then, is to scan your docs (CCRs and Bylaws and Rules and Regs) and then send them ...just get past the charging thing. It made sense 10 years ago, but does not now. Charging or delaying is something that simply makes things worse.

So, in California, you have to be an attorney to lien a property? Some states just use a form, downloadable, and then you fill it out and go to the courthouse and file it.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3107


06/26/2018 7:53 PM  
While you don't need an attorney to file a lien, it's not as easy as downloading a form in California.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Seller has delinquent dues



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement