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Subject: Flying an American Flag
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Author Messages
AugustinD


Posts:1045


06/30/2018 8:12 AM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 06/30/2018 12:19 AM
1. Yes the State provides the authority. Which means that CCR’s which limit are Null and Void on that point and issue.


The statute in question states "may" not "shall" as follows:

"An association may prohibit the display of political signs earlier than forty-five days before the day of an election and later than seven days after an election day;"

GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:349


07/01/2018 9:12 AM  
Sheesh.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7477


07/01/2018 10:50 AM  
But this is a flag not a political sign... A bit of a difference. However, if you want to make your HOA more expensive to live in because you want to fight "Them/They" then go for it. Enjoy suing yourself and your neighbors. That should go over like a dumb flag no one gives a crap about or knows what it is.

Former HOA President
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:29


07/01/2018 11:18 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/01/2018 10:50 AM
But this is a flag not a political sign... A bit of a difference. However, if you want to make your HOA more expensive to live in because you want to fight "Them/They" then go for it. Enjoy suing yourself and your neighbors. That should go over like a dumb flag no one gives a crap about or knows what it is.


I don’t believe that suing the HOA is suing yourself, she can sue to correct the contract that her own neighbors are violating, she can even go further and sue the directors individually but the process must first go through the HOA. The middle man is the HOA so neighbors don’t continue to fight and sue each other for very little thing. Suing is protecting the rights of all individuals subject to that contract so your claim of suing your own neighbors is ridiculous. She is protecting their rights as well to restore the contract to whomever is subject to it.

Neighbors love to bring the lame excuse saying thanks for suing during meetings but the neighbors don’t realize this is a contract they signed and should stay well informed if that contract has been breached. And the neighbors should not be surprised by such notices of a lawsuit. They should get involved and try to get better people elected and even try to settle the issues when neither side is backing down.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7477


07/01/2018 12:55 PM  
Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. It is a CONSEQUENCE of your lawsuit. Whether or not your issue is worth bringing one your STILL suing yourself and your neighbors. How do you think a HOA is funded? It is funded ONLY by the Dues paid by the members. (You are a member). So when you sue your HOA where do they get the money to pay the lawyer? From the HOA's budget of which the members (you and your neighbors) contribute to each month (Or yearly). If the HOA does NOT have enough money to afford a lawyer or the consequences of said lawsuit, then they need a special assessment. Who pays for the special assessment? YOU and YOUR neighbors.

So now that you decide (right or wrong) to bring a lawsuit against your HOA, then the consequence is such that dues can raise and/or a special assessment is made. It also can make the insurance cost rise or be cancelled altogether. Suing HOA board members individually is a waste of time as if their actions were a part of HOA operations, they are protected from individual lawsuits to their personal life. This is true of many corporations. You can't sue Bill Gates as an individual because your Windows 8.1 was taken away. It has to be the whole of Microsoft.

There is no "They or Them" in a HOA. It is YOU and your neighbors. You are in a "Club" of other homeowners of which you all decide the rules/restrictions to live by. You all monetary contribute evenly amongst each other to fulfill the financial needs of your HOA. A HOA ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. The HOA lawyer is NOT your lawyer but the one that represents the HOA as a whole.

So until you can tell me where your HOA gets money outside of you and your neighbor's dues contributions, then if you file a lawsuit it is against yourself and your neighbors. No way around it period. So accept that consequence and proceed or try a different method which is ALL in your CC&R's. Funny how the CC&R's and By-laws allow one to make changes to their OWN documents without the need of going to court...

Former HOA President
JenniferB14
(Colorado)

Posts:58


07/01/2018 1:13 PM  
In Colorado if you are the prevailing party an assessment for legal fees may not be charged to those parties. Therefore assuming I sued and won I wouldn’t be suing myself.... and per the law my attorney fees would also be paid. Not that I like hurting my neighbors....this case isn’t going to court at this time... but many other more important matters are coming before the courts from a group of us. Again... we have board after board who breaks the rules and doesn’t know how to respect the owners
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:29


07/01/2018 1:26 PM  
You make a good point however, people sue to restore the contract once it has been breached. The neighbors money is not only paying for the HOA to protect the contract but also to enforce it. You can call it a lawsuit or sometimes the HOA runs to the attorney for each problem and runs up a similar legal bill. No lawsuit needed but each member is paying to maintain the contract.

So when the HOA decides to sue they sue to protect the contract, to restore it. Up to this point you are correct the 1000 members being sued by one of their own members and then same 1000 members are attempting to restore or defend it but from here volunteers can be sued individually and pay for the legal fees, volunteers are not always covered by insurance, insurance policies have a lot of loopholes when HOA members will not be covered. You are right, the answer is in the covenants and usually they state volunteers will not be covered by insurance if the damage is bad enough, the thread from GuyM1 is one example.
TimM11


Posts:166


07/01/2018 1:31 PM  
Posted By JenniferB14 on 07/01/2018 1:13 PM
In Colorado if you are the prevailing party an assessment for legal fees may not be charged to those parties. Therefore assuming I sued and won I wouldn’t be suing myself.... and per the law my attorney fees would also be paid. Not that I like hurting my neighbors....this case isn’t going to court at this time... but many other more important matters are coming before the courts from a group of us. Again... we have board after board who breaks the rules and doesn’t know how to respect the owners




The idea is that the HOA would be hurt by this financially, and as a member of the HOA, that would eventually impact you as well. That being said, if it's what it takes to get the HOA to do what it needs to do, and to get the other homeowners to pay more attention to who they put in charge, then that's what it takes, despite the consequences.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7477


07/01/2018 1:53 PM  
You don't most likely pay the special assessment for paying for the damages of the lawsuit if awarded. There is a risk of a special assessment prior in covering the costs of the lawyer/legal costs the HOA incurs. It would be AFTER the judgement the JUDGE decides who pays what legal fees. It may be your responsible for your own and the HOA's theirs. If that is the case then, your money still went to pay for the HOA's lawyer.

There are OTHER ways if YOU put in the effort to make changes in your HOA instead of court. Yes it is the "hard way" and it takes EFFORT. However, yours and every HOA is set up to make changes without going to court ever. Accept to file the proper paperwork to make the changes official. It's called "Majority rules" that makes the rules. Meaning you get enough support to change a rule in your CC&R's, Articles of Incorporation, or by-laws it can be changed. Simple as that.

Imagine the power to make changes in your HOA is in your and your neighbor's hands! Wow! I don't have to imagine it I can READ it and APPLY it! What prevents one from doing so? Being behind in dues and losing your right to vote. Your voting power is your answer. You may have 1 vote but if you have 50 others out of 55, then majority rules. You win! For example, I don't want the rule of only white shades in front windows. (Which is an actual rule in many HOA's). I can put that up for a vote for ALL the membership to vote to remove that. They sign a document agreeing to it, present it to the board, it is then changed in the CC&R's. That change is then taken to the courthouse to be filed. Now the rule has been changed, documented, and applied. Who knew?

So when I hear I want my HOA to change a rule or I sue, my head hurts. Obviously you never read your documents or are too lazy to pursue or desire for change, you ain't doing nothing useful. My HOA was a nightmare when I moved in. The President was a con man. The lawncare guy was a drug dealer. The place looked crappy. You know what I did? Ran for Vice-President to learn the game. Got into the game and changed out everything. Fired the lawncare, put the ex-President in check, and beautified the neighborhood. All while working 2 jobs, going to college, and volunteering for Habitat. I even changed our CC&R's/By-laws/Articles. No lawsuits and only hired lawyers to file necessary paperwork for liens, foreclosure, and rule changes.

For me, this whole flag thing is just ignorance flying high. No one knows your in HOA. Someone shopping for a home in the area going to see it and go "What is that about". Once explained they most likely going to take a hard pass in pursuing houses. Why? Because they don't want to deal with "Drama" or especially yours...


Former HOA President
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:29


07/01/2018 2:41 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/01/2018 1:53 PM
You don't most likely pay the special assessment for paying for the damages of the lawsuit if awarded. There is a risk of a special assessment prior in covering the costs of the lawyer/legal costs the HOA incurs. It would be AFTER the judgement the JUDGE decides who pays what legal fees. It may be your responsible for your own and the HOA's theirs. If that is the case then, your money still went to pay for the HOA's lawyer.

There are OTHER ways if YOU put in the effort to make changes in your HOA instead of court. Yes it is the "hard way" and it takes EFFORT. However, yours and every HOA is set up to make changes without going to court ever. Accept to file the proper paperwork to make the changes official. It's called "Majority rules" that makes the rules. Meaning you get enough support to change a rule in your CC&R's, Articles of Incorporation, or by-laws it can be changed. Simple as that.

Imagine the power to make changes in your HOA is in your and your neighbor's hands! Wow! I don't have to imagine it I can READ it and APPLY it! What prevents one from doing so? Being behind in dues and losing your right to vote. Your voting power is your answer. You may have 1 vote but if you have 50 others out of 55, then majority rules. You win! For example, I don't want the rule of only white shades in front windows. (Which is an actual rule in many HOA's). I can put that up for a vote for ALL the membership to vote to remove that. They sign a document agreeing to it, present it to the board, it is then changed in the CC&R's. That change is then taken to the courthouse to be filed. Now the rule has been changed, documented, and applied. Who knew?

So when I hear I want my HOA to change a rule or I sue, my head hurts. Obviously you never read your documents or are too lazy to pursue or desire for change, you ain't doing nothing useful. My HOA was a nightmare when I moved in. The President was a con man. The lawncare guy was a drug dealer. The place looked crappy. You know what I did? Ran for Vice-President to learn the game. Got into the game and changed out everything. Fired the lawncare, put the ex-President in check, and beautified the neighborhood. All while working 2 jobs, going to college, and volunteering for Habitat. I even changed our CC&R's/By-laws/Articles. No lawsuits and only hired lawyers to file necessary paperwork for liens, foreclosure, and rule changes.

For me, this whole flag thing is just ignorance flying high. No one knows your in HOA. Someone shopping for a home in the area going to see it and go "What is that about". Once explained they most likely going to take a hard pass in pursuing houses. Why? Because they don't want to deal with "Drama" or especially yours...



The thing on the flag is a valid point but when all the HOA volunteers are being unreasonable and not enforcing the contract then a lawsuit is the only way. Sometimes the breach is so serious that no amount of email or letter complaints, winning elections, would undo the damage. Plus, If the neighborhood is split 50/50 on the lawsuit then technically Jennifer is right, it’s not suing herself.

I think jenifer’s angle is to use the flag issue to show the community the overall issue with community directors. She picked an easy obvious covenant ambiguity of the HOA and is getting a decent response from the HOA. She won this one but the overall issue hasn’t changed the officers and directors. It may be now up to the HOA to set up a complaint process but it’s goes back to what I stated earlier, if the breach is so serious, even if you are an officer and think you sit in a good position to bring change, then a lawsuit is the only way. Since most HOA’s are elections are staggered, there is almost no chance to bring change, lawsuits are the only way.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7477


07/01/2018 4:17 PM  
SHE IS SUING HERSELF AND HER NEIGHBORS!!! NO matter WHAT angle you approach it right or wrong. It is a CONSEQUENCE of your actions. Which EVERY action has an equal and opposite reaction. (Or in some Lawsuits and unequal one). What do you NOT get??? The ONLY money the HOA has is what the members put in. That is the EXACT money the HOA spends. Whether that is hiring a lawyer to represent the HOA in court or (Which they are required to do as a corporation) assign someone. (Who would want a non-licensed person in court to represent them is beyond me (Charles Manson...)

Follow the bouncing ball: You the member of the HOA pays dues. Those dues goes into the HOA's budget to pay it's bills. It is the ONLY money source for the HOA. If the HOA needs to hire a lawyer, then they take the money out of the HOA's budget. The SAME budget your dues funded. The lawyer represents the HOA as a WHOLE as you are a member of the HOA. That means you have to hire your OWN lawyer to sue the HOA of which you are a member. A member that pays dues. The same dues paying for the HOA lawyer from it's budget.

Now there is the insurance factor. That again is paid by the HOA's dues. Again that money of which is paid by you and your neighbors as members of the HOA. They may hire their own lawyers in certain cases and/or pay out the damages. If this happens then the insurance can increase it's bill, HOA pays the difference the HOA pays out, or the insurance drops the HOA altogether.

This ALL damages the HOA's budget. They have to raise money. Which is by raising dues for ALL or having a special assessment. You may be exempt from paying the special assessment for the damages awarded but may be NOT for one for hiring the lawyer in the first place.

Whatever happens your going to make the HOA including yourself and your neighbors pay more money out of pocket. Whether it is justified or not is irrelevant. The FACT remains suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. there are CONSEQUENCES for doing so.

Like the Marx Brother said after he was asked why he did not join the club he sued for not allowing him to join and won..."I will NOT join a club that would have ME as a member"...

Former HOA President
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5389


07/01/2018 4:54 PM  
Recall that Jennifer wrote the faint snake on the American flag is only visible to one neighbor. unless someone else comes up to her acre and examines it closely. So, how is that a statement?? That's why I don't get why she just doesn't put a big billboard in her yard since there's no laws against them in her HOA or state.
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:29


07/01/2018 5:07 PM  
In the short term you can let look at that way but that money can be recovered by holding each volunteer responsible afterwards. You can get the volunteer to pay back the HOA as well. I look at lawsuits as a way to resolve issues with the contract, it is a service and process any member has a right to use. It’s costs money, it’s not very efficient but it’s better than living like a minion. All services and amenities of a community cost money, most people don’t use them and still pay for them. Someone destroys the pool, everyone pays in the beginning but that cost can be recovered if the member has done something very recklessly. But paying 1/1000th of a special assessment isn’t much. Paying a $200 special assessment is far better than getting involved sometimes. Far better than going door to door gathering support where in the end it’s very hard to get 2/3 to change the covenants. Almost impossible to remove the leaders as well and nothing is to stop the same people removed from doing the same thing you did to them or to volunteer in the next election. Nothing wrong with lawsuits.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7477


07/01/2018 5:24 PM  
EVERYTHING WRONG with lawsuits!!! OMG Seriously??? Did you NOT LISTEN??? Your HOA can LOSE it's insurance! If it does NOT lose it's insurance, then it will cost much more to have it. The HOA will be forced to raise dues and/or have a special assessment. Which Don't know about you but others live on a fixed income that can't afford these changes.

What you don't seem to know is a lawsuit effect the availability of loan programs and raises your refinance rates. FHA and other loans may NOT be available due to the number of lawsuits your HOA has on it's books. Which is very much reported to FHA through a HUD form. It's just as damaging or if not more so as too many rentals. So you now limit less potential buyers. Plus the existing owners will find it harder to refinance or do so at a good rate.

Because of your "laziness/Apathy" to take the hard way of asserting your rights, you now cost EVERYONE in the HOA more money and damage. All for what? To get your way? Plus against people who VOLUNTEER??? Please. Open your eyes and see the REAL damage lawsuit do before telling people to take the "easy" way instead of doing what is their right to do. Which is free!

Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:1045


07/01/2018 5:55 PM  
Posted By SheilaJ1 on 07/01/2018 5:07 PM
In the short term you can let look at that way but that money can be recovered by holding each volunteer responsible afterwards. You can get the volunteer to pay back the HOA as well. I look at lawsuits as a way to resolve issues with the contract, it is a service and process any member has a right to use.


I have yet to read of a HOA civil lawsuit where the judge ordered the volunteers to pay from their own pockets.

But I also disagree with Melissa that there is always another viable option, namely electing a new board. Apathy is often so bad that boards go rogue and retain power for a long time, abusing members they do not like. A lawsuit often yields the best chances of meaningful change and could save money in the longer run.

Being a HOA director is probably one of thee worst volunteer gigs around. Directors are paid nothing; take abuse from people who at least 75% of the time have failed to read and study (yes, study) the governing documents; and give many hours. This is not an excuse for a director to ignore the governing documents. It is an argument to cut them some slack when they do not do things either perfectly or to all members' satisfaction.

GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:349


07/01/2018 6:00 PM  
I don't often say this ... "Let it go ..."

Sheesh.

Does anyone still care? (just me expressing my exasperation)

And, I know, I could simply avoid the thread ...

Sheesh.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7477


07/01/2018 6:08 PM  
IF it's the "Worst" option to follow the documents on change, then why have that option available? The issue is that one would rather sue and blame everyone else, than take the necessary steps to make a true change. Saying "My board is crooked/bad/don't listen yada yada" is just an EXCUSE for you to not take action.

Sorry people but NOT falling for the whole "My board sucks and only way THEY listen is by lawsuit" crap. That is a bunch of lazy BS and just shows your insecurities. I live by the rule of what other people think of you isn't what you think of you. You want to make a change then how is applying your rights in a HOA that is DOCUMENTED better done by an outside source of a courthouse?

My HOA was terrible. Won't deny that. Apathy, crooked board, not enough money, and all the trappings of a HOA. Did I go to court? NO. What did I do? Got a copy of my CC&R's, By-laws, and Articles of Incorporation. Memorized them ad brought them to EVERY meeting. Reference them upon question or when writing a violation. We were self-managed and only had an accounting firm.

I could have lived in doubt, fear, anxiety, or the false belief one can't make changes. Realized the hardest things to do is to change a culture. It is something I learned in college. A culture change is the hardest thing to change. It's not your rules of your HOA but the behavior of the group. One change can make a huge difference. It can be a simple change of bringing documents to a HOA meeting. Whatever that change is, you have to make it and give it time.

My general rule if you want to change your HOA culture is to give it 3 years. The 1st year is when it's all new and your getting know things. The 2nd year is when actual changes can take fruition. The 3rd year is when you maintain those changes. I was President/Vice-President/Board member for 3 years. When I was out, the HOA was completely different. There was less apathy and more people wanting on the board. It looked great and houses went up in price.

So to tell me it can't be done, it's because you don't want it bad enough. Forcing others to do it doesn't work either. So either live with what your got or get up and get better at getting what you want by following the rules!

Former HOA President
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:29


07/01/2018 6:09 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/01/2018 5:24 PM
EVERYTHING WRONG with lawsuits!!! OMG Seriously??? Did you NOT LISTEN??? Your HOA can LOSE it's insurance! If it does NOT lose it's insurance, then it will cost much more to have it. The HOA will be forced to raise dues and/or have a special assessment. Which Don't know about you but others live on a fixed income that can't afford these changes.

What you don't seem to know is a lawsuit effect the availability of loan programs and raises your refinance rates. FHA and other loans may NOT be available due to the number of lawsuits your HOA has on it's books. Which is very much reported to FHA through a HUD form. It's just as damaging or if not more so as too many rentals. So you now limit less potential buyers. Plus the existing owners will find it harder to refinance or do so at a good rate.

Because of your "laziness/Apathy" to take the hard way of asserting your rights, you now cost EVERYONE in the HOA more money and damage. All for what? To get your way? Plus against people who VOLUNTEER??? Please. Open your eyes and see the REAL damage lawsuit do before telling people to take the "easy" way instead of doing what is their right to do. Which is free!


It’s not her way, it’s the way the law interprets her HOA contract. Yes, it will cause damage but that is very short term, lawsuit decisions are permanent. The board should of figured the potential damage before they tried to make an example out of her. I see a few things wrong with her board she may not have any other choice
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:2228


07/01/2018 6:09 PM  
If I'm one home in a 100 and sue the HOA then of course I have to pay my own legal costs and a lawyer. Of course the HOA will have to pay lawyers for legal representation, but I'm 1 in 100 so I pay 1% of those costs and OPM (other peoples' money) pays for the other 99%. On top of that, in Florida, if I prevail then I also have a good shot at getting the HOA to pay for most of my attorney fees. And on top of THAT I also have a good shot at getting my share (1%) of the total costs of the litigation - costs, fees, judgments - reimbursed to me because the law says if I prevail I don't have to pay any of the HOA's costs. That includes what would normally be my share of a special assessment levied to defray the cost of the litigation.

I'm made whole, a wrong is righted, the board learns a lesson (hopefully, albeit unlikely) and everyone else pays the price for their own stupidity. Not going to win any friends that way, I grant you, but I'd still consider that a win. Lots of dollars sent swirling down the hole of attorney fees, which is sad, but at least they're not MY dollars when all is said and done. I'll also grant that getting my costs reimbursed won't happen overnight. It may take months, or even years if there's an appeal, before that happens.

Of COURSE suing an organization that you belong to is, in some respects, suing yourself. NO ONE HAS EVER DISPUTED THAT. It's pretty obvious to everyone here except you, apparently, who keeps trotting this dead horse meme out as if you're revealing the All Souls Deuteronomy to the unwashed masses. You're not telling anyone anything they don't already know.
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:29


07/01/2018 6:19 PM  
It’s not about her not following the rules, it’s her board that is not following the contract. Plus the rules are so ambiguous in these types of contracts, it is good that melissa was able to bring change but have seen Jennifer’s old threads, a lawsuit may be her only option now, another option might be to join the board. But if she does and she’s outvoted, I don’t see many options here.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7477


07/01/2018 6:21 PM  
The option of NOT flying the flag is one... Just saying... It really serves no purpose to do so but to stick your thumb up. Which is not going to win yourself any friends or favors in your HOA. Especially if you decide to throw your hat into the ring. It's going to be "Aren't you the one that insisted on flying that flag and threatened to sue us all?". Yeah, don't think your going to get a vote to represent your fellow neighbors with that attitude.

Former HOA President
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:29


07/01/2018 6:29 PM  
From jennifer’s previous thread it does sound like she tried to gain support but if she feels strongly in something, I think that might turn people off from getting the support, it does appear that Melissa played and “politically correct card” and got elected but some people are just not like that. I don’t think this would work for Jeniffer, it’s hard gaining friends and support for some, it’s not laziness, some people just don’t want to be bothered.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4108


07/01/2018 8:17 PM  
Posted By JenniferB14 on 06/30/2018 2:34 AM
I still don’t think that you understand. The guideline is not in our CC&Rs... it is a guideline in the ARC and the CC&Rs do not provide the authority for the ARC to create rules on personal property. Thus the guideline contradicts the Declaration... and in fact the Bylaws as well. And most of CCIOA states Notwithstanding to the contrary in the Declaration. Our attorney has already reviewed this... and he has had a similar case on a personal property governance issue. Mind you also, the guideline is nonspecific.... if you have sued then you know that if something in a covenant is ambiguous CO rules for free use of property. I’ve already taken the association to small claims over them trying to prevent me from having a chicken coop when the covenants said I could have chickens! The covenants were silent on any other structures but they felt they had the authority to deny me. Summary to that... they let me build a bigger structure for my chickens. Property restrictions must be clear


NO ... YOU do not understand. IT does NOT matter if the guideline is in your CCR’s OR your ARC Guidelines ... Because the STATE LAW will SUPERCEED BOTH!!!

If you have an attorney telling you that you can violate the State Law ... then that attorney is an IDIOT!!! And believe me I have spoken with many attorney IDIOTS.

Again the State Law notes”

38-33.3-106.5. Prohibitions contrary to public policy - patriotic and political expression - emergency vehicles - fire prevention - renewable energy generation devices - affordable housing - drought prevention measures - definitions

(1) Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws, or rules and regulations of the association to the contrary, an association shall not prohibit any of the following:
(a) The display of the American flag on a unit owner's property, in a window of the unit, or on a balcony adjoining the unit if the American flag is displayed in a manner consistent with the federal flag code, Pub.L. 94-344; 90 stat. 810; 4 U.S.C. secs. 4 to 10. The association may adopt reasonable rules regarding the placement and manner of display of the American flag. The association rules may regulate the location and size of flags and flagpoles, but shall not prohibit the installation of a flag or flagpole.
(b) The display of a service flag bearing a star denoting the service of the owner or occupant of the unit, or of a member of the owner's or occupant's immediate family, in the active or reserve military service of the United States during a time of war or armed conflict, on the inside of a window or door of the unit. The association may adopt reasonable rules regarding the size and manner of display of service flags; except that the maximum dimensions allowed shall be not less than nine inches by sixteen inches.

The important aspect is you need to meet the “Federal Flag Code” OR bearing a “Star Denoting the Service” which per your prior statements you are not meeting.
JenniferB14
(Colorado)

Posts:58


07/06/2018 7:09 AM  
JanetB2- Please note the most important part of the law that you did NOT highlight. In paraphrasing, the section of CCIOA states that despite what the governing documents may say (which overrides the CC&Rs) the HOA SHALL NOT prohibit flying the American Flag given it meets the Flag code guidelines etc. Therefore the authority is that they can not restrict the flag under those conditions, but the law does not provide a blanket authority for the HOA to restrict otherwise. These are clearly two different things as we all know.

Now, we know they certainly CAN create restrictions per the right of the HOA if, and only if the governing documents (or another law) provides for that authority. As I state in our case, our HOA does not provide the authority, though they think otherwise. This is what I would challenge... not my flag specifically, but the authority for the HOA to restrict personal property, or to create use restrictions. They have the say over the flag pole, as that is an improvement and now real property, but what goes on it is not an authority provided in our declaration. I hope that makes sense... I am pretty saavy with the law. This is the overall and overriding issue with our HOA is extending their authority and their control beyond their allowance, and bending rules arbitrarily to benefit the HOA. Again, that is my beef.

Thank you all for your comments and information. As we can see from some of the above comments people get super heated in discussions over HOA topics... it is super sensitive.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4108


07/06/2018 11:38 PM  
Posted By JenniferB14 on 07/06/2018 7:09 AM
JanetB2- Please note the most important part of the law that you did NOT highlight. In paraphrasing, the section of CCIOA states that despite what the governing documents may say (which overrides the CC&Rs YES ... That has been my point ... that the State Law can supercede your CCR’s.) the HOA SHALL NOT prohibit flying the American Flag given it meets the Flag code guidelines etc. Which is 13 stripes and the proper number of stars. Therefore the authority is that they can not restrict the flag under those conditions, but the law does not provide a blanket authority for the HOA to restrict otherwise LOL ... It absolutely does when any FLAG other than what is “allowed” via the STATE and FEDERAL Statutes! Unless your HOA allows other flags above and beyond those statutes and stated currently in your CCR’s ... . These are clearly two different things as we all know. It is two different things in your dreams.

Now, we know they certainly CAN create restrictions per the right of the HOA if, and only if the governing documents (or another law) provides for that authority. YEP ... AND the State and Federal Law gives Authority for American Flags As I state in our case, our HOA does not provide the authority, though they think otherwise. The HOA DOES NOT have to give authority ... the State Law SUPERSEDES your HOA regarding American Flags meeting either STATE or FEDERAL LAW. This is what I would challenge... not my flag specifically, but the authority for the HOA to restrict personal property, or to create use restrictions. Sorry ... Those restrictions were in place PRIOR to YOUR purchase. YOU agreed to abide by them when they were given to you to read and AGREE to when you made your purchase.They have the say over the flag pole, as that is an improvement and now real property, but what goes on it is not an authority provided in our declaration. NOPE ... IS an authority provided via State and Federal Laws ... which neither YOU nor your HOA can VIOLATE! I hope that makes sense... I am pretty saavy with the law. This is the overall and overriding issue with our HOA is extending their authority and their control beyond their allowance, and bending rules arbitrarily to benefit the HOA. Again, that is my beef.

Thank you all for your comments and information. As we can see from some of the above comments people get super heated in discussions over HOA topics... it is super sensitive.


I put my above comments in bold so maybe you can better understand regarding your various stances. If you were in my HOA and wanted to fly any other flag not allowed in the CCR’s or via the State or Federal Statute ... I would take you on in a heartbeat and estimate a VERY high probability of winning. Which would mean YOU would pay not only your own Attorney fees but also potentially the HOA’s Attorney fees per CO Law.
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