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Subject: HOA Responsible to Clean Yard of Absentee Owners
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Author Messages
AuroraF1
(California)

Posts:3


06/14/2018 7:53 AM  
I would like to know if the HOA homeowners are responsible to pay for yard cleanup on a vacant property with an absentee owner. I belong to Sierra Dawn North here in Hemet. The board insist we are non common interest community. There are about 335 properties. We have 2 properties that has been empty since I moved in the community last August 2015. Yards have been unkept since. In fact, both properties had homeless people lived in it. We were able to get rid of them. They just had it cleaned up and we paid $1000 total. I believe both houses are going to foreclosure. When I asked if we are going to be reimbursed for the clean up of $1000, they told the board in the meeting that we are NOT going to be reimbursed. I asked why not when it can be recovered from the foreclosure process. Is my assumption correct? They insist no. In fact, the current president started to yell at me because I had asked this in the prior HOA meeting. The reason why I asked is because there are charges in the financial statements that are questionable. Maintenance without any details, 3 or maybe 5 attorney fees in 1 year that we had to pay. 2 of the attorney fees did not even have attorney names but we paid $1000/lawyer.. They said their current lawyers want them to keep $100K reserve in the bank for lawsuits. These are just a few that I have problems with. If someone could shed light on this issue, I would greatly appreciate it.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:15999


06/14/2018 8:59 AM  
Aurora,

Welcome. Please review the sites posting rules.

If the property is going into foreclosure, it is unlikely the Association would recover any monies from that process. This is because the Association lien would be below the Banks lien. The only way the Association would see money from the foreclosure would be if the property sold for more then was owed to the bank and more then was owed to any other creditor before the Association. Typically, foreclosed properties sell for what is owed to the foreclosure or less.

The Association would do better going to court to seek a judgement on the owners and then garnish wages or seize other property they own. However, this is an expensive process and the Association would likely not be fully reimbursed for it's legal expenses.

AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


06/14/2018 9:05 AM  
Luckily in my state, we have local township trustees who have authority to compel homeowners to mow their grass, absent of HOA rules. If the homeowner does not comply, the trustee will mow the lot and put the expense on the homeowner's tax bill.

Because my HOA is low on funds, we ask the homeowners adjacent to unmowed lots, to contact the trustee's office for resolution. Do you have any sort of agency that may assist?
AuroraF1
(California)

Posts:3


06/14/2018 9:40 AM  
I am sorry I did not see the rules and I mentioned the association. Thanks for the input though. I appreciate them all.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3058


06/14/2018 9:42 AM  
The attorney who filed your papers with the Secretary of State did so improperly based on the language of your CCRs. He is also the agent for that association. The expense of the $1000.00 may be a reimbursable expense and the only way to know is submit the bill to the bank who owns the property. You should know the bank, if the property has been foreclosed, are liable for dues once the deed is recorded, if they record, Some will foreclose but not record to get out of paying their obligation to the HOA.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3058


06/14/2018 1:25 PM  
Wondering if anyone ever read the PUD Rider attached to their Security Instrument and tried to enforce with lender the payment of assessment by the borrower in the Deed of Trust. This language is from a FHA Multistate PUD Rider revised in 9/2014.


C. If Borrower does not pay PUD dues and assessments when due, the Lender may pay them. Any amounts disbursed by Lender under this paragraph C shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Unless Borrower and the Lender agree to other terms of payment, these amounts shall bear interest from the date of disbursement at the Note Rate and shall be payable, with interest, upon notice from Lender to Borrower requesting the payment.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:531


06/14/2018 4:14 PM  
I think the HOA has a responsibility to at least try to get reimbursed. They apparently forget they are spending other people's money. They should at least file a lien on the property.

I don't know about California, but in some states a lien withstands foreclosure. That doe not mean you will necessarily get your money from this foreclosure, but the lien will remain and you will eventually get it.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7664


06/14/2018 4:26 PM  
I agree with Ben. You all can lien for this money. It is owed the HOA. However, it depends on how your HOA is set up and what dues cover. Our HOA, you owned the house and the lot it sat one. Everything else outside of it was "common property". Which our documents our only responsibility was to keep common property mowed. So our dues paid for lawn mowing. Which is what we continued to do with these "abandoned" homes. If we did not keep up the yard, it would not be consistent. Since this was taken care of in the dues, those dues were already part of the collection process of the lien/foreclosure.

If we had done "extra" work, then we most likely add it to the lien or took the loss. Which may not be much of a loss if it meant keeping up appearances made the house sell to someone who would pay the dues. It may be the cost of doing business in the end.

Former HOA President
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3058


06/14/2018 4:55 PM  
Sorry folks, in California, only properties with unpaid assessments can have a lien placed on them. In order to foreclose, the lien on the property will need to be either 12 months or $1800.00.

You CANNOT place a lien on property solely for the purpose of recovery a fine, nor can any part of the $1800.00 be from a fine.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7664


06/14/2018 5:18 PM  
This isn't a fine. It is work done. Which counts as "damages". It's like how our HOA can fix a violation and send the owner the bill. If they do not pay it, then we can lien for the amount owed for our work. This is what this falls under. Do not see it as a fine. Fines typically can not be part of a lien/foreclosure.

Former HOA President
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3058


06/14/2018 5:29 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/14/2018 5:18 PM
This isn't a fine. It is work done. Which counts as "damages". It's like how our HOA can fix a violation and send the owner the bill. If they do not pay it, then we can lien for the amount owed for our work. This is what this falls under. Do not see it as a fine. Fines typically can not be part of a lien/foreclosure.



STILL A FINE, anyway you slice it.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7664


06/14/2018 6:23 PM  
No it is NOT a fine. It is damages. Meaning money was paid out of the HOA budget NOT paid in. It was NOT punitive in nature. A fine is a PUNITIVE action. Fixing the issue is CORRECTIVE. Which means in the eyes of the court as "Damages". Which the court is to make one "Whole". Which is an expense one would not have incurred IF the condition had been fixed by the owner. Fines are a PUNISHMENT applied to an owner to CORRECT their issue. It is money the member PAYS the HOA. The HOA doesn't pay out for a fine.

Former HOA President
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3058


06/14/2018 6:33 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/14/2018 6:23 PM
No it is NOT a fine. It is damages. Meaning money was paid out of the HOA budget NOT paid in. It was NOT punitive in nature. A fine is a PUNITIVE action. Fixing the issue is CORRECTIVE. Which means in the eyes of the court as "Damages". Which the court is to make one "Whole". Which is an expense one would not have incurred IF the condition had been fixed by the owner. Fines are a PUNISHMENT applied to an owner to CORRECT their issue. It is money the member PAYS the HOA. The HOA doesn't pay out for a fine.



Sorry, Melissa, I have been down that road and you lose,why??, because the court says so.

Now, would I have done it differently, yes. I know this particular HOA and well, not very bright.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7664


06/14/2018 6:35 PM  
Fine is punitive. Damages are what one pays to correct a situation. They are NOT the same no matter how much crap you try to blow out your crap hole...

Former HOA President
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3058


06/14/2018 6:51 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/14/2018 6:35 PM
Fine is punitive. Damages are what one pays to correct a situation. They are NOT the same no matter how much crap you try to blow out your crap hole...



I would try and explain, but you're from Alabama and that pretty much says it all.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7664


06/14/2018 7:19 PM  
Ah that California Corinthian Leather smell wreaks it's better than you attitude yet again. Alabama is great and hates Californians more than Yankees.

Former HOA President
FredS7
(Arizona)

Posts:854


06/14/2018 7:30 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 06/14/2018 6:51 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/14/2018 6:35 PM
Fine is punitive. Damages are what one pays to correct a situation. They are NOT the same no matter how much crap you try to blow out your crap hole...



I would try and explain, but you're from Alabama and that pretty much says it all.




No comment.
AuroraF1
(California)

Posts:3


06/15/2018 8:40 AM  
I just wanted to thank all of you who gave inputs to my subject. I am very pleased with all of them. Now I have more knowledge so this board does not think they know more than their members. I just wish the other members speak out in the meetings and not let the board run over them. I know this is a wishful thinking. Thanks again.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3058


06/15/2018 9:19 AM  
Posted By AuroraF1 on 06/15/2018 8:40 AM
I just wanted to thank all of you who gave inputs to my subject. I am very pleased with all of them. Now I have more knowledge so this board does not think they know more than their members. I just wish the other members speak out in the meetings and not let the board run over them. I know this is a wishful thinking. Thanks again.



There was someone elese that came on this forum asking similar questions about your community, so you are not the only one.
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > HOA Responsible to Clean Yard of Absentee Owners



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