Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Thursday, October 18, 2018
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!


SBCA: Free education for HOAs and condos on satellite placement issues.
(National Trade Organization)
Helping HOAs, condos and property managers with satellite placement issues since 1986.
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Pool
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
JoniL
(South Carolina)

Posts:47


06/05/2018 10:03 AM  
Hello I was asked to start new topic so here goes.SC swimming pool on HOA private property. My question is who owns the pool? Homeowners is my answer. We have been having issues with persons outside community using pool, bringing in numerous guests,no we do not have anyone as a monitor nor a lifeguard. My suggestion has been for years and just recently. Give keys to homeowners along with a form relinquishing their rights to the pool until such time as they are not renting unit. This way renter receives key to pool. We have a vinyl fence that can also be extended,so people can not jump it. I am told I am being discriminatory with my suggestion. Where I use to live being a renter I had to pay for braclets another idea to BOD also shut down. What are your thoughts on this subject or how have you handled your pool. Thank you
CjC
(Maryland)

Posts:138


06/05/2018 12:55 PM  
in our HOA, the renters as well as the owners have rights to the pool and any other amenity. The OWNER is allowed to bring up to 10 guest, the renters are only allowed 2 guests. There is a renter data sheet for them to fill out to be issued passes and a copy of the lease must be attached.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2282


06/05/2018 1:12 PM  
How do you not know if this is or isn't the HOA's pool? Is it in someone's backyard or at the clubhouse (assuming you have one)? What do your assessments pay for - if part of the money goes to maintain the clubhouse and the pool is in that area, it would appear this is HOA property. Also check your association budget - there should be line items for pool maintenance if this is, in fact, association property.

Our community had a pool when I moved in, but we got rid of it (finally!) a few years ago. Trespassing was one of the issues we had, but that's often the case, whether the pool is fenced in or not (that's why some insurance companies call them "attractive nuisances). Your community's problem is there are no rules whatsoever and without them, you have chaos - along with a huge liability risk if someone should get injured or drown.

As for the discrimination issue, it may be some people think your suggestion would only require renters to have keys to the pool, and that probably would be a problem. There's an easy fix to that - EVERYONE should be required to have a key and homeowners, whether they rent out their homes or not, are ultimately responsible for keeping track of them.

Following are some of the rules we used to have for our pool - take a look and bring this to the board to ponder:

Every home will get X number of passes for the pool (or keys). A maximum number of users will be set, with residents receiving priority if necessary. One pass per person so if you don't have one, stay out of the pool.

There will be a replacement fee if you lose your key.

A pool monitor will be hired by the association to check for passes - if a homeowner is delinquent in assessments, he/she, members of his/her household AND his/her tenants will not be allowed to use the pool until the account is brought current. Delinquent homeowners/tenants/household members cannot access the pool on a neighbor's pass

(To keep some semblance of order, our pool monitor was an off duty cop and he had the authority to shut the pool down and send everyone home if they couldn't behave).

Establish a set time for pool hours - no access before or after that time. Depending on the county health department rules in your area, you may also need to do weekly inspections to ensure the water's chemistry is ok so people can swim in it.

Kids and adults who have continence issues (you know what I'm talking about!) should be required to wear swimming diapers if they use the pool. If they do #1, #1.5 or #2 in the pool, it will need to be closed immediately and cleaned. Homeowners or their guests who are responsible for the mess will be required to pay for the cleanup.

No pets in the pool - this rule doesn't apply to service animals (yes, there's a difference between service vs. therapy animals - learn the difference and then talk to animal control and perhaps a disability rights organization to ensure your rules don't discriminate

Note a pool monitor isn't the same as a lifeguard - check with the health department to see if you're required to have one. If not, you need to make it clear this is a swim at your own risk pool, so parents and grown folk who can't swim or can't swim very well need to act accordingly. Put another way, parents need to ensure someone who can swim is with their children when they use the pool.

One way to help establish sensible rules is to work with your association insurance company so you can reduce the association's risk

So let's review - check your documents and budget to see where the pool falls in. If this is the association's pool (sounds like it), have a sit down with your association insurance company and the county health department to see what sort of rules should be set. You may want to send some draft rules to the homeowner for their review and comments before the board votes on a final version. Send the final version to everyone with an effective date, hire a pool monitor and/or lifeguard and begin enforcement. Have fun!

MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:109


06/06/2018 8:52 AM  
Joni,
I do not think keys are a good idea. Even if you make Do No Duplicate keys they are easy to make copies at the do it yourself machines. Key Fobs are the only way to go because it not only gives you the ability to control access and also get reports on who is entering. In many cases this comes in very handy when vandalizes cause damage. I highly recommend a good camera system to work hand and hand with the access control. Of course the cameras should only be in public spaces and very good signage in place to let people know they are being recorded.


Pools are board members worst problem in most HOAs. It is almost impossible to fix all issues but it is the boards job to do their best. I also do not recommend that you have different rules for renters and homeowners. Treat all the same and limit access to 5 guests. The idea of 10 guests reminds me of the time a homeowner invited his kids soccer team to our pool after they played a match on a muddy field. The group of course all came into the pool with all of the family and friends and they had over 50 people enter on one Key Fob. They turned a clean Hot tub into what looked like the Mississippi. We had all kind of maintenance issues as a result. A quick look at the cameras and the Card Access system clearly pointed to the culprit.


Sometimes you have to spend money to save money.
AllumW
(Florida)

Posts:67


06/06/2018 10:46 AM  
Our neighbourhood has key fobs which I think is better than a physical key. Easier to control who can access the pool. Renters have to get their fob from the owner.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5759


06/06/2018 12:49 PM  
Like some others, we have fobs and they cost $50 apiece. If someone abuses our (many) pool rules, we can after a hearing deactivate that condo unit's fob(s). We also have cameras

Our CC&Rs say that landlords may not use the pool or other recreational amenities, only residents may.

But we have very few violations as over 1/2 our residents are over 55 and the younger ones don't have kids. The only time there's too many poolside is Memorial Day, 4th of July & Labor Day, but even then it depends on the weather.
JoniL
(South Carolina)

Posts:47


06/08/2018 5:28 AM  
Thanks everyone great suggestions and advice as always. Unfortunately board is cheap and they do not care for pool. All has been suggested. As for cameras was suggested the only response given was who will monitor them? Course could have come in handy 3shootings around property and person decided to come to pool restroom to bleed out. Great huh? Security no where to be found,pool not locked its a mess here! I tracked our slack security last night as did last night. Laying in car sleeping in remote part of community. Asked our board how many nights are we going to allow him to do this? No one wants to take action. Thanks for all words of wisdom I enjoy ready all forums.Such nice people thank you Joni
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2282


06/08/2018 9:25 AM  
Looks like you have some other issues beyond who's responsible for the pool (which sounds more and more like it's the association's responsibility). You may think the board is cheap, but given some of the problems you've listed, addressing them will cost money. Depending on what your association's financial situation is, it may be the board is coming to the same conclusion our community did - lots of expense, but little use and a host of other problems. For example, before we hired the off duty cop as our pool monitor, we tried to hire teenagers, but some of them didn't show up or show up on time.

As for the slacker security guard, it seems to me the board should fire him or ask for a replacement if he's working for a security company. If they can't/won't do that or aren't taking a firm stance on what to do about the pool and its problems, you and your neighbors may need to decide if you want this bunch to continue as the board, which means voting them out (or recalling them - check your documents to find out how). you'll then need people to replace them - yep, that means YOU may have to be one of them.

In the meantime, I suggest it's time for the community to decide if it wants a pool or not (the board might not be the only group of people who don't seem to want to deal with it). A poll could be sent out among the homeowners or better yet, call a special meeting to discuss the problems and brainstorm how to resolve them. If it appears people want to ditch the pool once and for all, you may need to check the documents again to see if there has to be homeowner approval. You'll also need to do some research on how this is to be done (construction permits and such) and then decide what to do with that piece of land.

When we got rid of our pool, I was hoping we could create some sort of outdoor entertainment area, fenced in with space for picnic tables and a gazebo for grilling so people could use it along with the clubhouse for parties. Unfortunately, that didn't happen, so now it sits, with the grass (what's left of it) serving as some sort of buffet for the geese! And a toilet for the dogs - I don't walk on the grass, so I don't know if that's a huge problem.
MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:109


06/08/2018 11:07 AM  
Joni,
The one thing I know for sure is that the cameras will not fall asleep. They work 24/7 365 and with a simple DVR all the video is recorded and can solve many of the issues you seem to have. Once the vandals realize they will be caught and prosecuted they will bother some other community. Our community placed license plate capture cameras at our entrance and we caught several bad actors. As to who will monitor them well I suggest the same guards that they are paying to sleep. In our association board members had access if they wanted and until a homeowner threw a fit about some made up viewing issues that worked well. I have often thought that a committee could be formed of volunteers to monitor and report issues to the guards or the board. This is kind of a 2018 Neighborhood watch. I am just thinking out loud as to how that would work. With good signage and proper placement no one in a public space should expect privacy. I get a kick when people say that and then go to Walmart or any other store and are constantly under video surveillance. Big Brother is everywhere and if you are abiding the law you should appreciate it and if not you too will get caught.
JoniL
(South Carolina)

Posts:47


06/08/2018 1:15 PM  
Thank you all Yes we do have a lot more issues than just pool. Board has been given so many suggestions shoot pick one lets get started seems everything is in the works. I agree cameras would be a super plus as you said would not take much to monitor. As far as pool which is the only thing we have,no clubhouse just bathrooms and chemical storage,pump room. As far as grilling, no grills allowed on grounds. Use to but college kids set straw on fire and dumped charcoal in pond.You may have electric grill but then people complain smokes rises up into their sunroom.(condos) I will track security again tonight maybe I can get a board member to come with but they do not confront anyone. Board says owner of security keeps putting them off to meeting I suggested give him time and place does not show then Fired. Thanks for listening and suggestions we shall see. I have not begun to fight yet.
MaximoA
(Montana)

Posts:4


06/09/2018 2:35 AM  
Most of the loves to enjoy in the swimming pool.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement