BruceM8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Rcently the HOA enacted a rule that bans all type of work/workers (all services) from being performed on Sundays (except in cases of emergency).
Is this legal ???
Is this legal ???
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HOA bans lawn work on Sundays
Started by BruceM8 • 24 replies • 2444 views
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GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sheesh - always something weird.
Was this a change to a rule by the Association, by the Board?
Was it in a rule or regulation modification?
What was the vote?
What was the reason? Religious? Noise?
Was this a change to a rule by the Association, by the Board?
Was it in a rule or regulation modification?
What was the vote?
What was the reason? Religious? Noise?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi, I have seen Boards impose prohibitions on non-emergency construction and similar work on Sundays. The prohibitions have not been explicit in the CC&Rs but could be said to fall implicitly under the 'preventing nuisances' section of the CC&Rs. I happen to support the rule of no non-emergency construction work on Sundays. I admit I am not sure how strong the legal ground is for such a rule.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Augustin,
I agree re construction, but this sounded like a slippery slope ...
Could I help pressure wash my house with my professional pressure washing third causing (:-) ex
Can I paint my house? Can I hire my fixit guy to repair a downspout on my gutter system? (non emergency)
Can my yard guy trim and mow grass? (ex: its been raining for two weeks on every day except Sunday ..)
I agree re construction, but this sounded like a slippery slope ...
Could I help pressure wash my house with my professional pressure washing third causing (:-) ex
Can I paint my house? Can I hire my fixit guy to repair a downspout on my gutter system? (non emergency)
Can my yard guy trim and mow grass? (ex: its been raining for two weeks on every day except Sunday ..)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Bruce,
Bottom line is, to find out what is legal or not you need to consult an attorney.
Personally, I think your HOA ban, if challenged in court, would not stand.
Had they simply said no work prior to 9 am (for example) that might have withstood a challenge.
My suggestion, gather others who agree with you that this ban is unrealistic and make your voices known (but have everyone contact the board separately so they know it's not just one person). Recognize that their may have been a good reason for this action but that a different action might be better (the 9 am example).
To gather support, you can make flyers with the issue, the fact you believe it's unrealistic and having no work prior to 9 makes more sense, then include the contact info for others to voice their opinion to the board.
Bottom line is, to find out what is legal or not you need to consult an attorney.
Personally, I think your HOA ban, if challenged in court, would not stand.
Had they simply said no work prior to 9 am (for example) that might have withstood a challenge.
My suggestion, gather others who agree with you that this ban is unrealistic and make your voices known (but have everyone contact the board separately so they know it's not just one person). Recognize that their may have been a good reason for this action but that a different action might be better (the 9 am example).
To gather support, you can make flyers with the issue, the fact you believe it's unrealistic and having no work prior to 9 makes more sense, then include the contact info for others to voice their opinion to the board.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/28/2018 9:49 AM
Augustin,
I agree re construction, but this sounded like a slippery slope ...
Could I help pressure wash my house with my professional pressure washing third causing (:-) ex
Can I paint my house? Can I hire my fixit guy to repair a downspout on my gutter system? (non emergency)
Can my yard guy trim and mow grass? (ex: its been raining for two weeks on every day except Sunday ..)
Augustin,
I agree re construction, but this sounded like a slippery slope ...
Could I help pressure wash my house with my professional pressure washing third causing (:-) ex
Can I paint my house? Can I hire my fixit guy to repair a downspout on my gutter system? (non emergency)
Can my yard guy trim and mow grass? (ex: its been raining for two weeks on every day except Sunday ..)
George, I read you. I would hope the Board cuts people some slack.
Some years ago I had a neighbor with whom I shared a wall replacing the floors in her 2000 square foot unit. It was not an emergency. She and her partner were paying unlicensed contractors under the table, with the work running from 5 PM to 8 PM and all weekend for three weeks. I was steamed. This is when I wanted the rules enforced.
But I admit to, say, taking out my power drill on Sundays for a half hour or so from time to time. Your points have merit.
Maybe the OP should do what he has to do but also try not to make Sunday construction work a habit. For one, the "free enjoyment of one's property" rule from case law might kick in and protect those who work intermittently on Sundays. Doing such work regularly on Sundays might be closer to crossing the line to being a "nuisance."
BruceM8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
This is a new community rule for our community.
The community is fully developed, so there is no new construction
The rule was directed at landscapers and remodelers.
The board vote was 4-1 in favor
It reads
1.15 Vendors are excluded from performing work on any part of the property (common and homeowner property) within Independence East on Sundays.
This regulation is inclusive of all workers (including landscapers) except in emergencies."
The community is fully developed, so there is no new construction
The rule was directed at landscapers and remodelers.
The board vote was 4-1 in favor
It reads
1.15 Vendors are excluded from performing work on any part of the property (common and homeowner property) within Independence East on Sundays.
This regulation is inclusive of all workers (including landscapers) except in emergencies."
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Ahh, now we see the language.
This keeps contractors out but does not prevent the owner or resident from doing work on Sundays.
This keeps contractors out but does not prevent the owner or resident from doing work on Sundays.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
I'm with Tim that a consultation with a lawyer would be in order. It seems to me that this could be challenged on the basis of religious discrimination, it seems to favor some religions over others.
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
BruceM8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Some are interpreting the word "workers" to include vendors and owners. Thoughts ?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I agree with Tim. This is for Contractors not individual homeowners. Now that does exclude situation like a burst pipe where one may need to call a plumber. Do not see where it says that an owner can't perform work. We have a similar rule where no contractor/vendor can do work before 7 am nor after dark. Just for the noise issues.
Former HOA President
BrettH3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posts: 47
Posted:
I’m a biblical Sabbath keeping Christian and have no work done on Saturdays. This rule discriminates against many religions and probably wouldn’t stand up in court.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The new rule says: "1.15 Vendors are excluded from performing work on any part of the property (common and homeowner property) within xxx xxx on Sundays. This regulation is inclusive of all workers (including landscapers) except in emergencies."
Owners aren't "vendors" so they're included in the rule. But it does seems to even say housekeepers are excluded on Sundays. If they aren't excluded it probably should say "exterior" work. Or does it also mean interior that might be, let's say, a noise nuisance.
Our rules don't permit vendors who do noisy work to be in our elevator building condos on weekends, holidays, before 8am or after 5pm. In 17 years, no owner has taken us to court. Detached homes are different though.
Owners aren't "vendors" so they're included in the rule. But it does seems to even say housekeepers are excluded on Sundays. If they aren't excluded it probably should say "exterior" work. Or does it also mean interior that might be, let's say, a noise nuisance.
Our rules don't permit vendors who do noisy work to be in our elevator building condos on weekends, holidays, before 8am or after 5pm. In 17 years, no owner has taken us to court. Detached homes are different though.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Does anyone else see where it says Owner/Member can't do work? It just says Vendor which is a paid contractor. As for being a "Biblical Christian" I've done volunteer work for Habitat for Humanity with plenty of them. They were not allowed to work on Saturdays. However, there is rule that to get a house with Habitat you have to put in "work hours". They have to be done by you or have someone volunteer their hours on your behalf. Much of the work was done on Saturdays. So we would not see the owner most of the time till maybe the late afternoon. Some would pick up a broom but admit their religion prevented them from much more.
So I understand this. However, this rule your quoting does not indicate anything about discrimination of religion. It's just they don't want vendors working on the exterior of the home. Which most contractors do not work weekends anyways. So don't see this as a big deal at all that your making it. If you want to paint your house go for it. Just don't hire a painter to do it on Sunday.
So I understand this. However, this rule your quoting does not indicate anything about discrimination of religion. It's just they don't want vendors working on the exterior of the home. Which most contractors do not work weekends anyways. So don't see this as a big deal at all that your making it. If you want to paint your house go for it. Just don't hire a painter to do it on Sunday.
Former HOA President
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
They can only do it if it is in your Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&Rs) or if your CC&Rs give them the authority to make such a rule. Boards often have the authority to make rules as they apply to common areas but rules governing your personal property are governed by the CC&Rs and usually require the approval of the owners to change.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/28/2018 3:36 PM
Does anyone else see where it says Owner/Member can't do work? It just says Vendor which is a paid contractor. As for being a "Biblical Christian" I've done volunteer work for Habitat for Humanity with plenty of them. They were not allowed to work on Saturdays. However, there is rule that to get a house with Habitat you have to put in "work hours". They have to be done by you or have someone volunteer their hours on your behalf. Much of the work was done on Saturdays. So we would not see the owner most of the time till maybe the late afternoon. Some would pick up a broom but admit their religion prevented them from much more.
So I understand this. However, this rule your quoting does not indicate anything about discrimination of religion. It's just they don't want vendors working on the exterior of the home. Which most contractors do not work weekends anyways. So don't see this as a big deal at all that your making it. If you want to paint your house go for it. Just don't hire a painter to do it on Sunday.
Does anyone else see where it says Owner/Member can't do work? It just says Vendor which is a paid contractor. As for being a "Biblical Christian" I've done volunteer work for Habitat for Humanity with plenty of them. They were not allowed to work on Saturdays. However, there is rule that to get a house with Habitat you have to put in "work hours". They have to be done by you or have someone volunteer their hours on your behalf. Much of the work was done on Saturdays. So we would not see the owner most of the time till maybe the late afternoon. Some would pick up a broom but admit their religion prevented them from much more.
So I understand this. However, this rule your quoting does not indicate anything about discrimination of religion. It's just they don't want vendors working on the exterior of the home. Which most contractors do not work weekends anyways. So don't see this as a big deal at all that your making it. If you want to paint your house go for it. Just don't hire a painter to do it on Sunday.
CC&Rs only control owners and their property so, if they can't restrict the the owner working on their own property on Sunday, they cannot control what the owner's contractor does.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceM8 on 05/28/2018 10:07 AM
This is a new community rule for our community.
The community is fully developed, so there is no new construction
The rule was directed at landscapers and remodelers.
The board vote was 4-1 in favor
It reads
1.15 Vendors are excluded from performing work on any part of the property (common and homeowner property) within Independence East on Sundays.
This regulation is inclusive of all workers (including landscapers) except in emergencies."
This is a new community rule for our community.
The community is fully developed, so there is no new construction
The rule was directed at landscapers and remodelers.
The board vote was 4-1 in favor
It reads
1.15 Vendors are excluded from performing work on any part of the property (common and homeowner property) within Independence East on Sundays.
This regulation is inclusive of all workers (including landscapers) except in emergencies."
I don't think they can control what you or anyone else does on your own personal property unless it is in the CC&Rs. Condo associations may but not HOAs. This is a general rule so there may be something in your state law or case law that allows them to do it.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I am curious, if the CCRs, as you say, control the owner and their property, why it can't control an owner and their owner, in this case, on a specific day?
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
The CC&Rs can. It was unclear to me whether they changed the CC&Rs.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceM8 on 05/28/2018 1:46 PM
Some are interpreting the word "workers" to include vendors and owners. Thoughts ?
Some are interpreting the word "workers" to include vendors and owners. Thoughts ?
The language specified vendors. Hence, the workers referred to are the crew of the vendor.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Question #1.) Are you in a Condo building or town home community with on-site maintenance and guard gated?
If the answer is yes, then YES it is legal because there are procedures for vendors to follow and be checked in when entering condos and & such, where
only emergency vendors are called out like a plumber or electrician. And typically these on-site workers at condo and town homes are off on Sundays.
And believe it or not, there are a vast amount of people that don't want to hear lawnmowers and weed whackers on Sundays.
If the answer is yes, then YES it is legal because there are procedures for vendors to follow and be checked in when entering condos and & such, where
only emergency vendors are called out like a plumber or electrician. And typically these on-site workers at condo and town homes are off on Sundays.
And believe it or not, there are a vast amount of people that don't want to hear lawnmowers and weed whackers on Sundays.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
LetA,
Sure there are folks who don't want to hear lawn maintenance on Sunday.
But, gee - what if the owners work six days a week?
C'mon - this needs to at least make sense if it is an HOA (not a Condo).
Sure there are folks who don't want to hear lawn maintenance on Sunday.
But, gee - what if the owners work six days a week?
C'mon - this needs to at least make sense if it is an HOA (not a Condo).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/28/2018 3:20 PM
Owners aren't "vendors" so they're included in the rule.
Owners aren't "vendors" so they're included in the rule.
Kerry,
Are you saying the rule applies to owners or was there a typo and that the rules do not apply to owners?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
One, of my many typos, Tim. I meant, of course, that owners aren't included in the prohibitions as they're not vendors.
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
Yeah.. good luck enforcing that one.
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