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Subject: HOA is going into my home to do repairs when i stated in writing they do not have my permission? is this legal
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SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/24/2018 4:29 PM  
We have a town home in Southeast Idaho. The complex had mold issues due to issues with the contractor/developer and faulty architecture. Long story short the contractor passed away and architect is defunct. Each owner has to pay for the repairs. They are duplex like units and share a common wall. The repair expenses are 40-50,000 per owner. I have finally paid for the repairs which we had 4 months to cover and they sent me a letter stating they will be doing repairs on my unit next week . I had shared with the HOA earlier that we have our unit rented until September and have people who have made vacations plans and such. I responded in writing saying they can enter as of sept 3rd to do the repairs and to please complete the other units first. i stated they do not have permission to enter my unit or my property to complete my repairs until then. the HOA president said that is my problem and they will be proceeding on the work next week. Can they legally do this and enter my property and begin repairs without my consent? I am so angry and the HOA president is rude, condescending and has never been willing to work with us. If I didn't pay for all the repairs by this month they threatened that they would shut my water off? Please help if you have any insight on who to contact. I am afraid i will be sued by renters who have purchased flights and made plans over a year ago. The property is located in Driggs Idaho
thanks so much
Sharla
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7388


05/24/2018 4:53 PM  
Read your CC&R's. It may be this is the only time the HOA can schedule the work. You not participating could mean a delay on the entire project. Which means could be facing more expenses due to the delay.

Our HOA we are allowed to do this. If the HOA needs to correct a violation/repairs, we can enter to complete. We then send the owner the bill. If the owner does not pay, then we can lien them for that money.

If you want to know if something is "legal" ask a lawyer. Which if you mean business you will need to anyways.

Former HOA President
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/24/2018 5:56 PM  
Thank you Melissa. The construction will be on going and there are many other unit owners waiting and ready to do the repair . He could easily start in another unit . Issue I think is the person we share a common wall with is on the board of directors and wants his and my unit done first which is why the urgency. Construction will be ongoing for a year. I do think that receiving 3 days notice of when work will commence is not sufficient in any way. We have renters coming in two days as well . I’m at a loss . I guess the next call is an attorney and the. The sheriffs department if I have to enforce the no trespassing
AugustinD


Posts:964


05/25/2018 4:34 AM  
Sharla, how awful to have to go through all these repairs and pay all this money. As Melissa pointed out, you will want to read your HOA's (condo's?) Declaration and/or Covenants. It is usual for a HOA's (condo's) Declaration or Covenants to say that the HOA (condo) may enter (with repair staff, say) one's unit at any time to make repairs. Of course as a courtesy, one would hope the HOA (condo) coordinates with each owner at least a little bit. But if the Declaration or Covenants say entry is allowed, then a court is obliged to uphold these contractual documents (for the greater part) and would agree the HOA (condo) is within its rights.

If you think the timing would result in a loss of rental income, then keep trying. Maybe a letter from your attorney would help compel the HOA (condo) to be more considerate. Then again, there are many homes where you are that need these repairs. If each owner asked to have the work done at the time the owner specifies, would this hinder the work getting done? I would not get my hopes up. I am sorry for all of what you are going through.
AugustinD


Posts:964


05/25/2018 4:49 AM  
About shutting off your water: This remedy is controversial. Your question comes up a lot nationwide. It is possible it is allowed in Idaho. As an introduction, see links at https://www.google.com/search?q=shut+off+water+hoa+legal&oq=shut+off+water+hoa+legal&aqs=chrome..69i57.3846j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 . Again, read your Declaration and Covenants and also, if things elevate to the point that the HOA (condo) is shutting off your water, you may have to hire an attorney.
KimberlyW2
(Tennessee)

Posts:18


05/25/2018 7:43 AM  
I am not an anyway an expert here...and this is just my humble opinion.

Call your renters. Explain the situation. Do it today. Remember this is Memorial Day weekend and next week is a holiday week for many. You will probably need an attorney to make it legal to stop them from proceeding and it will be doubtful to get an appointment and some sort of legal work up to stop them from entering your home- all of that within days. And during a holiday.

Could you call the police? Yes. But, they will likely immediately tell you this is a domestic and civil matter and walk away. And, do you really want your renters to be in the middle of that?

I would take the loss from this first set of rentals- even if it means a possible lawsuit ( which is probably not going to happen ) and maybe you can salvage the rest of the summer if they do get the work done this next week.

This sounds like an epic mess. I am so sorry.

Best of luck to you!
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/25/2018 8:52 AM  
I agree Kathy. The timeline right before the holiday is a nightmare. I certainly don't want to put vacation renters in the middle of this fiasco, but giving us 6 days notice on a holiday weekend is unacceptable. we are contacting an attorney to see how to proceed and have also contacted the sheriff.
Prior to making our payment we told them in writing that our unit would be occupied from end of may- September. Never once did they state that this would be an issue or problem. Once we paid the last $34,000 we get a letter stating that was our problem and they were starting 6 days later. We let them know they do not have permission to begin repairs and that it will be occupied. They have stated they we need to plan to have our unit available for repair for 3 months. June-August. That is quite a lot of rental income (which we used to pay some of the repair bills ) lost as well as ramifications from these renters some of whom have flights and such from as far away as Australia. I'm wondering if we could have legal ramifications due to breach of contract with them as well. It's even more frustrating that others in the complex ( 20 units) are ready and eager to get started, yet they placed our unit first since one of the board members shares our common wall and wants his done right away. I just find it hard to believe that when we are paying personally such large amounts of money for these repairs and the HOA is not covering them that they can still dictate when it occurs and demand we break contracts with our renters. He is claiming its a health and safety issue as there may be mold in the walls of the units. I worry and want it rectified in a timely manner as well but if it is a dire safety hazard why are they doing the repairs in stages and not demanding everyone be out or begin now. I have spoken to other owners and they
were already notified that their units will not be repaired until after the winter season. I just don't see the big deal with moving to another unit to start repairs and swapping with another owner who is slated later after the winter. They just refuse to work with us and in response to our letter he stated " the answer to your question is brief is -No and as President this decision is final". They also refuse to call and communicate directly and instead choose to send nasty threatening emails.
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/25/2018 8:56 AM  
Augustin
thank you so much for your link and observations on this. I appreciate your insight and information.
KimberlyW2
(Tennessee)

Posts:18


05/25/2018 9:32 AM  
I do think it is possible you could win this in a legal fight. In court. However, that will take months to make happen. Even if you are able to get an appointment today with an attorney- I don't see that happening, but maybe?? All they would be able to do is write a letter barring entry into your home and threatening a lawsuit. Again, this is a process. You stated you had renters arriving in 2 days! How will you stop this from interfering with your renters?

You may get sued for breach of contract from your renters. And, yes I suspect you will lose rental income this summer. Especially if this is expected to take months to complete.

My advice is to let them repair the unit. Cancel your rentals. Then sue. For all losses.

I just don't see you stopping this from happening without a fight and law enforcement will likely not get involved in this. If things get physical, someone is going to jail. Is it worth that?

Your HOA board seems resolute in this happening at your place- next week. I don't think they much care you rent your unit out for profit. I hope a judge will.

Please update on how things go.





KimberlyW2
(Tennessee)

Posts:18


05/25/2018 9:40 AM  
Also, I must ask...does your HOA have insurance? Why is the mold issue not covered by either the HOA policy or your personal homeowner's policy? Sorry. I should have asked that in the first place.

If your HOA does not have insurance- suing won't get you far. Do you know what your HOA financials look like?

AugustinD


Posts:964


05/25/2018 10:50 AM  
Here's what I am processing:

-- The HOA can likely legally enter at any time, pursuant to the governing documents.

-- Mold has health risks but it's clear this situation has been deemed a non-emergency (relatively).

-- The HOA needs three months to do the repairs.

-- The HOA could work on other units that do not have renters. True?

-- You will lose rental income.

If all the above is true, then I think I would write my own 'letter of demand' to the HOA saying I will be seeking the HOA paying me for my lost rental income and the costs of breaking a contract. You can google for the terse format such a 'letter of demand' requires. Alternatively you could spend say around $1000 for an attorney to do this. If the attorney has to review your CC&RS, the cost will be on the order of at least another $1000 for the review. Send the letter certified mail, return receipt requested to the person you know is the designated legal agent for the HOA on such matters. This could be the manager, the president or maybe the HOA attorney. If you're not sure, mail them all with your demand letter.

Can you check on whether the repair staff really will be in your unit every day for three months? Are you sure it's not a window, and the repair staff will only be in your unit for say a week or so?
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/25/2018 3:29 PM  
thank you that is very helpful. It looks as if the letter of demand is the way to go at this point. I am contacting my renters as we speak. This is an awful situation, due to the holiday weekend and such short notice I am very limited in my ability to respond. I have looked over the CC&R's and do not see much in there relating to this issue and access to my unit without consent. I am aware that this is standard if there is a repair needed for the health and safety of others. This is not however an emergency situation or they would have all owners vacate the units and preform the repairs all at once. As to your question on the home owners insurance policy, homeowners insurance would not cover these issues for any of the owners as it was a builder and design issue with roof line. It has been ongoing battle for over 4 years now trying to go back on the people involved. It translated into a cost of $50,000 per unit and owner, and there are 20 units involved. My husband is a licensed contractor and they would not allow anyone to bring in their own people despite the expensive cost. We are forced to use the people they have lined up. I spoke with another neighbor who paid in full for his repairs over a year ago and adamantly wants his repairs done now however he got a letter stating his unit wouldn't be repaired until after winter. He was very upset that he has to continue to wait. I don't understand the resistance to just swapping and completing his unit prior to ours. I still really believes it comes back to the board member we share a common wall with being adamant about his/ours being completed first. It seems that those that have paid their cost prior to us should be repaired first, mind you we just paid the last 35,000 to complete the repairs end of April. Augustine thank you so much for your detailed response and assistance.
Sharla
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:451


05/25/2018 5:17 PM  
Sharla, here is some advice.

May I ask what is the reason for the mold abatement?
If it is caused by another owner or element of the common area, I would reach out to their prospective insurance carriers.
If it is just routine abatement then you may not have any recourse.

If the mold treatment was caused by something else, your renter and you might benefit because insurance would put your renter up in a hotel or
similar accommodations, and you still get to collect rent money. it is sort of a win win for you.

PS I've seen this type of mold redemption happen when a penthouse owners infinity pool was overfilled, and the water caused flood damage to many units 20 floors below his.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:15812


05/25/2018 6:33 PM  
Sharla,

Personally, I think the renters would be appreciative that you cancelled due to mold issues.
If they are repeat customers, you may want to find them a hotel or something at the price they would have paid you.

I do think that you would rather deal with potential legal action over cancelling a contract vs. potential legal action by having the family stay there, discover that you knew mold was on the property and failed to warn them about it.

Hope this helps,

Tim
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7388


05/25/2018 7:11 PM  
Hold the horses... The renter situation you may have an issue and could be sued by your renters. Your responsible for their health and welfare in that home. A mold issue can put you on the hook or a reason for them to cancel the contract. Heck, they can even NOT pay you rent until the mold situation is fixed.

You can't withhold certain repairs on a rental property. Like if the heating/cooling system is broke. Serious plumbing issues. That can also be conditions that can effect health/safety. Mold could be one of those.

So before we jump on the HOA. Let's look at the whole situation. You have renters going to occupy a unit that has mold in it. Instead of being a responsible homeowner/landlord, your going to delay the fix so you can make money off the renters? Is it you don't want the HOA to enter the home to tip off your renters about the mold situation?

Former HOA President
MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:340


05/26/2018 6:29 AM  
I wonder why you have to pay it all yourself even if the builder is dead and the architect has quit the business. Both presumably had insurance in force at the time they were in business and your units were under construction. Design defects by the architect have a long SOL, and such defects if they exist would still be covered by that insurance campoany. The builders insurance would cover construction defects after the death of the builder as per your states construction defects SOL.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:196


05/28/2018 9:05 AM  
OK - it sounds like the HOA is trying to do the right thing, and you agree it is right thing.

But, it sounds like you don't like the timing and believe it is due to politics.

Sounds easy - tell your renters it is required repair that is not part of your ability to preclude.
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/29/2018 8:26 PM  
Just to be clear we do not know if there is mold and all other owners are still occupying their homes this is not any type of emergency situation and I would never put my tenants in jeopardy. We are not trying to mislead anyone and we are covering costs to repair roofline and such to address the architectural defects. Most all of the work is exterior but is still a noise and vacation Nuisance. We have notified our guest and will be Issuing a letter of demand for lost rental income and any legal costs that follow due to our breach of contact. Thanks to all of you that offered helpful suggestions
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7388


05/30/2018 5:06 AM  
Good luck on that. I don't think they owe you anything for loss of rental income. You are responsible for your home and thus if you choose to rent it. The HOA has a right/need to do work that they have scheduled. Just because those 2 overlap doesn't mean they owe you anything. It's just an inconvenience.

Former HOA President
GuyM1
(Ohio)

Posts:253


05/30/2018 6:04 AM  
Hi Sharla

Have you asked the timeframe of work scheduled? Like someone mentioned how long will the work take on your unit? Say it will take a week or two you could put the people up in a hotel until the work is completed. I would ask the HOA, what is the start date and the finish date and remember a few days for weather delays. Then I would have that in writing and hold someone liable either the HOA or the contractor and charge your daily loss of rent after the contracted time. They can give you a three-month timeframe but the work would only have a week or two of work to do this would be unfair. Your paying for the repairs where is your contract for your unit.

Have you contacted your Insurance company? They may cover your lost rent from damages. They may cover actual damage from the poorly constructed area but won't pay for mold.

Did the HOA contact the Association insurance company? Or did they just not want a claim so rates wouldn't go up?

The thing is we don't know anything about what anyone did to investigate if any insurance would cover anything. Was any mold testing done on your unit? To me, the HOA would need to show that mold was in your unit to say there is a health issue. I think a judge would want proof why the HOA can't work on other units first to allow you to rent at that time.

Problem is that we don't know what lead up to this.

Do your best to work with the HOA and keep everything in case you do end up in court this will show your willingness to compromise with the HOA.


AugustinD


Posts:964


05/30/2018 7:43 AM  
Sharla, thanks for the elaboration. Like Guy, I want to know how long the work will take. You wrote that most of the work is exterior. If it's only about a week that the repair crew will be working on your townhome, I would check wording in the lease on the point. If the wording allows repairs, and if the tenants can continue to reside in the home (setting aside some messiness and dust), I think I might work with the HOA and just get this done. It just depends.

Even if the HOA reschedules to say next year, won't you potentially be losing rental income? The difference would be that you can rent the unit letting people know in advance they are going to be inconvenienced for a certain period.

I know time is tight at this point. Hopefully your knowledge of the details will lead to a good decision in negotiating this with the HOA.
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/30/2018 8:56 AM  
thanks for your input. My attorney has all the details & correspondence over the last 6 months as well as the CCR's and believes our case is solid. With all that has transpired it's most definitely more than just an inconvenience.
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/30/2018 9:13 AM  
he has stated he will not give me specific dates or even an estimate of how long it will actually take. He will also not allow communication with the the work crew. If it's only a couple weeks, we could accommodate easily, but he will only state there is a 3 month window. I gave him the dates of our rentals and said he could have access if we could just let our renters know what was transpiring and what time noise and work would start and stop each day. He stated the decision is made he will not answer questions or provide any information. We really tried to communicate with him and work together so that everything can proceed in a timely manner. We have no other choice but to cancel and work through our attorney. Mold testing has never been done on any of the units. They have stated due to the roof issues units could be at risk for mold. I agree we know nothing on their side as to what they did on the insurance part and why its not covered. we were all given a blanket statement that it was not being covered and that there was no one to go back on. They stated that the repair costs were to be paid by each individual owner and range between $30,000- to $50,000 and then threatened that our water would be turned off if we did not have payment complete in a 6 month timeframe. They are completing the next 20 units over a one year time period. We will be completing our work and putting this home on the market. It is not worth the stress and headaches
KimberlyW2
(Tennessee)

Posts:18


05/30/2018 9:29 AM  
SharlaD,

I'm going to be honest...I am very confused as to why anyone would shell out $30,000 to $50,000 for repairs and/or mold removal ( without proof there is mold! ) and NOT know any insurance details.

Do you have homeowner's???? What did they say???
Does your HOA have a blanket policy covering repairs??? Why or why not? If they do not carry insurance for roof repairs- should not your homeowner's policy then step in?

This makes less sense the more you post.

Seems to me you are WAY, WAY behind in hiring an attorney. That would have been done when they presented me with a bill of $30,000 + without explanation or " no one to go back on ".

Were there NO meetings by your HOA board explaining in detail??

So many missing pieces to this story.



SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/30/2018 10:10 AM  
the HOA was in litigation on this matter for over two years with to try and hold them liable financially- planning department, architecture firm, developer etc. the end result was that it was not going to be covered by anyone except the homeowners. the homeowners insurance have stated this was pre existing and would not cover due to it being the developer, builders fault. they have gone round and round to no avail. It's an unbelievable situation and exhausting both mentally and financially during this whole process. So to answer your question, yes we should have had our attorney involved much earlier.
SharlaD
(Idaho)

Posts:10


05/30/2018 10:17 AM  
Melissa- Mold has never been found in the units just to be clear. they say we are at risk. No testing has been done and this is primarily a roof design issue. Homeowner are currently living in their units while work is being completed. this is not any kind of emergency health situation. I would absolutely never put anyone's health and safety in jeopardy like that.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:196


05/31/2018 9:20 AM  
Out of time, maybe ... attorney to ask for injunction of some sort to block? However this requires significant proof and audit trail.
GuyM1
(Ohio)

Posts:253


06/03/2018 11:17 AM  
Hi Sharla

Please let us know how things are going through this process so people in the future can see what and how things can help them.

Hope you are working it out with your HOA but it sounds this Board needs to be changed for new people that know how to communicate with its members.

Thanks,
Guy
WilliamC15
(Florida)

Posts:7


06/12/2018 12:42 PM  
Any update Sharla?
JoyceR2
(Virginia)

Posts:123


06/13/2018 10:12 AM  
I agree. The HOA has nothing to do with the owner receiving payments for renting or income from a rental.
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