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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The meeiting took place last night.

It is apparent that the other Directors do not care for any corporate knowledge I had.
One Director (the Bully) actually demanded to know where in the documents Association approval is required to plant a tree on their property.

In a vote of 4 to 1, they voted not to award 2 contracts for storm water projects. 1 contract would have addressed a complaint from owners outside the HOA claiming erosion is now having water go to their property and home. The other contract would have addressed a safety issue (and potential liability risk) between two rows of town homes. Reason - if we spend that money now, what happens if something more important comes along. Therefore, even though a County official has been out, evaluated the areas of concern, made suggestions on how to address the issues seen and prioritized them for us combined with my corporate knowledge of walking the property with contractors, obtaining proposals and overseeing the storm water projects, they want to take a look and decide at a later meeting - perhaps a couple months out.

In a vote of 4 to 1, they are forming committees to evaluate adding signs that say "Reserved" to assigned parking spaces. Keep in mind, I've already did that leg work, obtained bids and presented the findings to the Board as this was a request from the general membership at the annual meeting.

In a vote of 4 to 1, they are forming a committee to determine if sidewalks need repaired. Of course my recommendation of take a notebook when you walk the dog would provide that info in an hour or two.

I proposed obtaining a playground audit based on the Nevada lawsuit we discussed earlier. After a 15 min debate on if we could afford the audit and what legal ramifications would occur if an audit was done but nothing was addressed, the fact it's not required by the insurance company do we need it at all, could we afford correcting issues an audit might find, etc. they finally approved obtaining bids.

In a vote of 4 to 1, they are forming a communication committee to handle the newsletter, social events, etc. I proposed that since this is a long term committee a resolution should be made to identify how members are assigned, the purpose and the authority of the committee. Question was asked, is that required by the Bylaws. Answer was no but it's important to do to give guidance to future boards and committee members. In a vote of 4 to 1 the voted not to create a resolution based on the fact if it's not required, why do it.

A Facebook page was actually created in Dec and turned over to the spouse of the bully to administrate. When asked, the Board responded that that was the work of a private member, not an Association site and does not need to be discussed. Note: this is the first time the spouse sat in the meeting taking notes.

In a vote of 4 to 1 they are forming a committee to see if the mailbox enclosures (rural mailboxes group mounted in housings) should be repaired or go to cluster boxes because they lock and there were those package bombs in NV (Note: they were not delivered by the post office). They didn't believe me when I said you can obtain rural mailboxes that lock and that I had been looking into this issue over the past three years to find replacements for the Board to consider.

Proposal was made to form a committee to look into a request from the membership (at the annual meeting in Oct) to add (paint) a lane divider on our roads that enter the intersection. I informed them that the work had already been done, quotes obtained and presented to the Board in November when the transition to the new board occurred. I presented the minutes from that meeting that had the costs, the pros/cons etc. In a vote of 4 to 1 they are forming a committee.

I wonder where they are getting all the volunteers from to form the committee.

I am now under the impression that this group came onto the Board for the sole purpose of creating Association social media platforms and hold social events. Everything else that needs to be done and procedures that should be followed are ignored unless there is a written requirement for the specific procedure or task to perform.

I am very concerned on how they will want to spend the Association funds, including the reserves. At this point in time, that is the only reason I see of staying on the Board. Honestly, I'm not sure it's enough of a reason.

JeffS28 (Tennessee)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Make note of everything and see how many laws and bylaws are being broken. If they want to redo all the work you’ve already done, let them. Reserved parking violates access to parking for elders but many HOA’s get away with it. Are they paying for all these committees? Let them delegate the work unless it’s costing the HOA in some way. It’s looks like you got through to them on the playground. My thought they should of setup the communication committee properly, they make a mistake, insurance might not cover the committee that wasn’t approved. Same thing on mailboxes. The Facebook person should have oversight, your HOA is heading for the exact opposite of what you wanted.

Reserves should not be enhancements, so let them do it and make note of it. They will not be indemnified if they do something with the reserves, far as I know.

I think you have said it before, the board should have one voice of reason.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is a question what happens if you walk away? Try it. Just say for a month or 2 you are "busy" and can't make it to the meetings. Matter of fact, go out to dinner and stay away. If you can handle what happens in that time period, then you can walk away. If things don't go so well, then stop being so "busy".

Although I hate my ex-FiancĂŠ, he did teach me something about management. He was a "top level" manager. Sometimes I would call him and he would be out playing golf in the middle of the afternoon! Knew he had issues and project due. It would frustrate me to no end... Then found out the "logic". If he could not walk away from that project, then that means the team wasn't one. A cohesive team is one that if one member leaves, the others can step up or fill that space. A team that can't stay together is missing a cog in their wheel... Which you have to ask yourself? Are you that Cog or the Wheel?

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
If VA corporations codes are similar to CA, Tim, your Board is completely responsible for the committees. For that reason, our (and perhaps your) HOA has charters for each committee and members are appointed only by the Board at a duly noticed meetings. We have a minimum of three on committees. If the Board only acts if things are in writing, corp. code might be helpful.

Even though your HOA is self managed, sounds like too many committees to me and I guess most are ad hoc committees. Perhaps you'd be interested in chairing one. I think I remember that your board meets in homes. Might be crowded with so many committee members.

It's frustrating that the Board won't take advantage of your research & knowledge, but we know it's for personal reasons. And now you are a minority member.

With the resignation of an independent Board member here, who sold his unit, and it looking like the board won't replace him, I'm nearing the same situation and also fear most of the remaining directors will make harmful decisions. So I think my role is transforming from activist to watch dog.

I'm going to urge more of my friends & neighbors to attend monthly meetings and speak up during open forum--all remarks are recorded in the meeting minutes--and see if we can't keep the gains made over the past few years of hard work. Our usual attendance of 15-20 has dropped to 5 last month & in Jan. due, I'm told, to the surly attitude of our very own bully president. My own spouse now refuses to attend. He has a glass of wine waiting when I get home!

So maybe you can get folks to attend and voice their opinions and offer support. All I can think of now, maybe more will come to me....

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/17/2018 6:04 PM
Our usual attendance of 15-20 has dropped to 5 last month & in Jan. due, I'm told, to the surly attitude of our very own bully president. My own spouse now refuses to attend. He has a glass of wine waiting when I get home!


Somehow the above is a little uplifting to read, if only to know that bullying presidents are pretty common. I am glad you have good support at home.

Regarding the creation of committees not explicitly created by the Bylaws: I think this is often the managerial refuge of amateurs and the inexperienced.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I think Melissa has the right idea – skip the next meeting or two, clear your head and then decide how you feel. Some of your colleagues may think you’re staying away out of spite – let them. If they can get homeowners to man all these committees, wonderful, but if not, at least you tried – in the end, that’s all anyone can and should expect. Too bad people are less interested in doing it the right way because it’s sexier and faster to do the work half ass thinking no one will notice. Sadly, they’re right in too many instances.

AugustinD also makes a great point about committees - although they can cut down a lot of time by having a small group of people doing a deep dive into an issue, too often boards don't give committees any kind of direction, put all their pals on it (who are just as inept and lazy) and then nothing gets done while the board members blame the committee and the committee members blame each other.

Some of what you’re experiencing (and a little more) is why I left my board three years ago. I didn’t care if I was outvoted, but it was frustrating that no one else came up with any other ideas. In fact, they often took the easy way out and skip addressing the issue altogether or let the property manager make the call on something that was really the board’s duty.

And then people wonder why some HOAs are full of chaos and disorder – people more in love with the title of board member or board officer (especially president) than doing the work.

I believe you mentioned in your last post that the homeowners sacked nearly everyone on the previous board except you, so you can be secure in the knowledge that some people did respect and appreciate your efforts. Apparently, these guys and gals have forgotten about all that – hope that bully doesn’t turn around and go after them. Sometimes you do have to step back and let people do their thing – sometimes they stumble into doing what you suggest or end up begging you to return to clean up their mess.

As for you, you did your part, so be happy with that. If you find it’s best for you to resign, do it, don’t look back and don’t have any regrets.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tim

Are they breaking laws and Bylaws as one poster said? Seems to me they are scared of making decisions. In business I was taught to never raise a problem unless I had a solution and most times, they took my solution.

I say lead them to the water.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Tim, I appreciate your concerns but hope you chose to stay on the Board. It appears that you either have several new Board members who want to proceed cautiously or they may not yet be ready to follow up on all of your efforts. Good Board members like you are hard to find. I hope you will continue to try to give the other Board members the benefit of your knowledge.

I appreciate anyone who is willing to serve on a Board. But sometimes I get impatient with incompetent Board members who serve for their interests over those of the association. When they will not accept my logical reasoning I try not to take it personally. Instead I ask myself "how can I do a more effective job".
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Something that both Sheila & Roger, and Jon too, wrote suggest that you give it a little more time, Tim, IF it's not interfering much or at all with the rest of your life.

It's the non-acceptance of logical reasoning and the others on my board's lack of ideas that bothers me too. But, I'm thinking that some boards, when they lack knowledge, will resort to their own sort of reasoning which, at last here right now, doesn't have sound bases. And details too, seem to annoy them.

Wish I could be more helpful, Tim.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/17/2018 9:50 AM
I am very concerned on how they will want to spend the Association funds, including the reserves. At this point in time, that is the only reason I see of staying on the Board. Honestly, I'm not sure it's enough of a reason.

I think that alone is plenty of reason to stay. Are the new directors newbies when it comes to being on the board of an HOA? There's a chance they'll eventually come to their senses. My own board shot down motions to create two new committees last month after it was pointed out that we don't even have enough volunteers to fill the committees we already have.

I have also experienced doing work - many hours of it - at the behest of one board only to have it kicked to the curb by a follow-on board. That happened twice over a three-year period and each time it sapped my energy and enthusiasm to do anything at all. Both times the board ended up re-inventing the wheel without so much as an acknowledgment that someone else had already spent a considerable amount of time researching the problem and trying to evaluate potential solutions. The fact that we have some decent neighbors is what keeps me engaged.

Nevertheless, I think it's better to be on the inside where you can observe what's going on up-close rather than be on the outside looking in and having to guess. It's better to light one candle than curse the darkness.

(I also have a selfish reason why I hope you don't resign. If you resign you may be posting here less and that would be a tremendous loss for the forum.)
BrandyJ2 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
A board without a squeaky wheel is a board sure to fall off the rails.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
When the inmates took over the asylum, I resigned and then moved out of the community.

While I manage HOA's, my wife and I would NEVER live in another one as there is NO accountability.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
First and foremost, thank you for the kind words.

I agree with those that said watching the money may have to be enough of a reason.
We will be moving in a year or two and I want to be sure that the Association has a good financial footing so any sale is not impeaded.

Side note to Richard - our next home is in an Association because my wife wanted one. However, it has no amenities, no common area and provides no services. The assessment amount is $50 per year and stated as such in the Covenants. Therefore, I think it's the best alternative I could find to satisfy my wife's desires and mine (to not be in an Association).

I've decided that I'll take the suggestion initiated by Melissa and echoed by many. I'll skip a meeting or two and see what happens.

I do appreciate the feedback from all of you !!

Tim
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
I also would do what Melissa stated. In meantime maybe discuss concerns with neighbors so that when start back attending the meetings maybe many of those neighbors will attend as support and for themselves to see first hand the issues.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tim

I have lived in 6 or so HOA's in 3 states. They ranged from one that owned a golf course, clubhouse/restaurant, the septic systems, private streets, and every amenity one could think of to one (my present one) with no amenities. While I like the concept of association control, the amenities can kill you financially and problem/disagreement wise thus I chose my present one for having none. Best of both worlds. Controls with no amenities.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/20/2018 5:48 PM
Tim

I have lived in 6 or so HOA's in 3 states. They ranged from one that owned a golf course, clubhouse/restaurant, the septic systems, private streets, and every amenity one could think of to one (my present one) with no amenities. While I like the concept of association control, the amenities can kill you financially and problem/disagreement wise thus I chose my present one for having none. Best of both worlds. Controls with no amenities.



Amen ... my new HOA financially is responsible only for the irrigation system to everyone’s pump on their property. From their pump the rest of the system is the owner’s responsibility. We essentially only pay for our irrigation water which mine for like 5.76 acres is $99.62 per year plus an additional $100 HOA fees of which most goes to build our reserves for when the system needs to be repaired or replaced down the road. Last year we raised from $50 to $100, so in future will not need any special assessment. I pointed out was better to pay a little more each year vs special assessment for thousands due to not having funds to replace down the road.
RobertM25 (Florida)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Tim I have always appreciated your vast knowledge and wisdom .Come to FL an I would love to have you on our Board anytime. thank Bob
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Tim- You should be able to watch the spending even though you are not on the board, correct? I know it's a pain to request the info but there should be a way to get it.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertM25 on 03/23/2018 9:55 AM
Tim I have always appreciated your vast knowledge and wisdom .Come to FL an I would love to have you on our Board anytime. thank Bob

You'll have to get in line
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
We have a similar situation where one board member is often in disagreement with the rest of the board. In my opinion, it is because he refuses to consider others' ideas and takes any opposition to his ideas personally. I wouldn't try to guess who is right or wrong based on the information you provided but if I was the odd man out on so many issues I think I would consider that maybe I am the one who is wrong. Compromise is essential for any board to work well together.

I do have a comment on one statement you made: "One Director (the Bully) actually demanded to know where in the documents Association approval is required to plant a tree on their property." It sounds like you are suggesting he was wrong in this situation. If someone is telling an owner they need approval to plant a tree then they better be able to show where in the governing documents that it is required. Although, as a director, he should know the answer.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Thanks again for the kind words.

I agree that some of this may be perspective. This is why I asked a friend to attend a recent meeting and give me their opinion (the friend would have no problem telling me I'm being a horses behind if need be).

For Ben, a little clarification about the tree comment:

This is the same group of people that reported the Association to the County for removing trees and planting trees without permission from the County (required for common areas).

This group has approved an spring cleanup where they are purchasing 50 tree saplings and giving them out as a thank you for participating in the cleanup. They wrote a newsletter article saying that those who participate will receive a tree that can be planted in the common area (violation of county codes they are aware of) or own their own property (requires approval per CC&Rs).
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sooner or later these decisions this other group is making will bite them. I've seen it happen and let it happen. Which was very painful to watch. When I stepped aside as president (Stayed as board member for transition) the new board were not competent. I used to joke that if you watched one of their meetings it was like watching a Tennis match with a shared brain cell... You could actually see them bounce around looking at each other like 1 had caught the brain cell...

Had to let them make their own mistakes. If it was something that was going to do some real damage, then I'd assert my opinion/vote. Otherwise, I stood back and let them get out their own mess. I'd see how they handled that then decide what level of involvement. It may be stepping back in or gaining support for complete removal. I am still a member after all.

Cultures are slow to change in a HOA. When they do change, it's a struggle between the good and the bad. This just may be a ebb in the flow of things... Just hop on your surf board and go with the flow... Just watch out for sharks in the under tow!

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/25/2018 5:48 AM

When they do change, it's a struggle between the good and the bad.

OR, and this is something I haven't made a decision on yet, it may be a struggle between old and new.

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