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Subject: Formalize committees?
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Author Messages
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/03/2018 7:52 AM  
We have one committee passed via Board resolution. However, we have two other committees quasi functioning, both of which I have no idea (as a Board member) of what they are doing or which homeowners are working on it is they are doing.

Tell me, should these two "under the radar" committees be formally adopted by the Board via resolution or is it okay for them to continue doing whatever it is they are doing, as a loosely knit group of homeowners/random Board members? Why or why not?
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:531


01/03/2018 8:24 AM  
If they are not created by the governing documents or the board then they are not an association committee. They are just a group of people getting together. Until the board recognizes them officially as a committee, with the members duly appointed, I would treat them like any other homeowners.

The only concern I would have before then is that if you have more than one board member at one of these committee meetings then the meetings may be considered official and your state law may require them to be open, have notifications, and minutes be taken.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/03/2018 8:38 AM  
I agree with Ben that these are not committees if not recognized and approved by the Board as such. The may do whatever they wish, which might involve activities that the board doesn't think are good for the Association. One example could be a group that's interested in landscaping. The group sends a "member" to interview landscape companies giving the impression the Board wants this done.

Imo, it's better for the HOA and for the board if you formally approve them as committees. I would ask the one who seems to lead the committee to have the group write a "charter," which states their goals, maximum number of members, budget if any, and duties a requirement for a monthly written report to the Board, etc. Your state's corporation codes probably shows that Board appoints committees and members and may disband them. Your bylaws might say something similar.

It's a good idea to have a board liaison for each committee unless a director serves on it.

I think committees ares good for HOAs if managed well. They can be a really good pipeline to later board membership.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:15999


01/03/2018 2:03 PM  
Adam,

Have you reviewed past minutes to see if those committees were approved before you became a board member?

Ask the committee chair for written reports for each board meeting, perhaps with the initial report being a summary of who is on the committee and the committees purpose.

Have you requested meeting info from the chair so you could attend one of their meetings?
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/03/2018 2:09 PM  
No committees have been created prior to my time on the Board. It's all happening "under the table" right now.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:15999


01/03/2018 2:37 PM  
Have you asked these questions in a board meeting?
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/03/2018 2:59 PM  
There are no minutes or anything from those un-official committees. Honestly, I have no interest in those committees, and do a lot for the Board right now, so I think I'd prefer to stay out of their work, even if just in observation. I'd just thought those committees should be formally adopted via resolution so everything is on the up and up, no?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7760


01/03/2018 3:02 PM  
To me committees (and their members) are appointed by and serve at the pleasure of the BOD. I see no reasons for resolutions making them formal. In fact making a committee "formal" could come back and bite the BOD in the butt.
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/03/2018 3:05 PM  
In Indiana, the state non profit law requires formality in regards to committees. In fact, our HOA specific attorney gave us a resolution template for creating such committees. I understand different states and governing docs can vary GREATLY though.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/03/2018 3:40 PM  
I still think it's better to have the Board approve them than to have folks running around perhaps trying to say they ARE an "HOA Committee."

Your State requires them to be formal and you have a template to approve them. As I said above, in CA the Board also must approve Committees and their members.

Some HOAs like mine require an Architectural Review Comm. (ARC)

Yes, they can be extra work for board members, but the idea is to make LESS work for the Board. So pass any extra work onto other directors. How many directors are you? What size is your HOA?
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/03/2018 3:42 PM  
5 Directors.. 440 single family homes. Apathy rampant. Almost fell into receivership last summer. No CC&Rs have ever been enforced. 25% homeowners in arrears. Okay, I won't gloat anymore!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/03/2018 6:05 PM  
So sorry, Adam--no wonder you're working so hard. Do you have a property manager??

It doesn't seem like apathy is too bad or you wouldn't have these Owners who are quasi committee members. But, I still say, if you can harness their energy towards the good of your HOA, give it a try.

Not long after I moved into my HOA, some other newer owners wanted to do something to improve the aesthetics of our condo high rise. WE approached the Board and, I now believe, they didn't really know what to to do with us. So the president met with me and instructed me to have the committee write a charter. Well, we did and it gave the board something to chew on anyway. So they came back to us with some required revisions; we agreed ( of course) they and approved our committee of 7. Within a year, two of us members were elected to the Board and a third was appointed.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7760


01/04/2018 1:35 PM  
Posted By AdamD1 on 01/03/2018 3:42 PM
5 Directors.. 440 single family homes. Apathy rampant. Almost fell into receivership last summer. No CC&Rs have ever been enforced. 25% homeowners in arrears. Okay, I won't gloat anymore!




Adam

It sounds like your HOA has more problems then committee selections. Are you wanting committees to wrestle power away from the BOD?
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/04/2018 7:57 PM  
The committees in question are fluff committees, so to speak. They are safety and neighborhood improvement. So they aren't taking any work away from the Board, just doing some "extras" around the subdivision.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/05/2018 2:22 PM  
What "extras" are they "doing," Adam?
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:724


01/05/2018 3:20 PM  
The committees may be an attempt to get people involved, assuming the committees are not chaired by the same people. As I've said in the past, you want to get butts in the seats at your meetings, announce you are voting for something very strange like "painting all front doors purple" or "installing a helicopter landing pad". People will show up just to tell you you're crazy!

If there was a safety or improvement committee in my neighborhood, I'd be very interested in what they had to present to the board after an inspection.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/05/2018 6:08 PM  
I would too, Douglas, which is why I like formalized committees that must submit reports every month.
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/08/2018 2:50 PM  
They are looking at diseased trees, locating fire hydrants/street signage, fluff stuff like that.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/08/2018 4:14 PM  
But they don't have any authority to get arborists in and pay them, or remove trees, rights, Adam?
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/08/2018 6:20 PM  
They wanted to hire an arborist and the board director who is leading that unofficial committee did an AWM via email and motioned to hire an arborist. Luckily, I was able to shoot that down.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/08/2018 6:30 PM  
You know, Adam? This is the trouble with so-called committees that are not Board approved. They want to spend the HOA's $$ without the board voting on the tree removal.

This should not be an Action Without a Meeting (AWM), which should be reserved for urgent matters as has been advised to you here or elsewhere. the Board should actually review the proposal from the arborist.

If these were "real" committees, the committee chair would submit the arborist's bid to the board with the committee's recommendation AT a board meeting.
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/09/2018 5:48 PM  
I agree and thank you for all of your feedback. In your view, when should a Board utilize the AWM feature if given in the Bylaws?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7760


01/09/2018 6:20 PM  
Not appropriate AWM: We should consider removing that tree at the entry way before it falls.

Appropriate AWM: That tree at the entry way fell and is blocking a driveway. We need it removed now.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/09/2018 6:33 PM  
I think your previous post on Acting Beyond Approved Motion covered the topic pretty well, Adam. Last post was yours on 1/4.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/09/2018 6:35 PM  
Our Bylaws also permit us to use AWM. BUT CA civil Code only permits it in emergencies. So...what does IN law say.
And, too, do your bylaws say AWM can be used any old time?
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3054


01/09/2018 9:16 PM  
You are going to find, except for California, AWM can be used anytime as long as proper procedures are followed. Because proper procedures WERE NOT followed, outside of the "so-called" emergency, California legislators eliminated the corporate rule.

HOA's though, have thumbed their noses at that, for the most part.
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/10/2018 12:05 PM  
IN law is silent. Bylaws let us use AWM any time we like, so long as it is unanimous consent.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/10/2018 2:00 PM  
Clients of our MC do not thumb their nose at using AWM only for emergencies. Their PMs are instructed to not facilitate breaking the laws of CA.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3054


01/10/2018 2:57 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/10/2018 2:00 PM
Clients of our MC do not thumb their nose at using AWM only for emergencies. Their PMs are instructed to not facilitate breaking the laws of CA.



Good for them!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5749


01/10/2018 3:33 PM  
Well, Richard, you wrote "for the most part," which suggests "most" HOAs don't abide by that a statute. I'm positive that our MC manages waaay more accounts than you do, many in CA, so know that their other accounts don't ignore this statute either.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3054


01/10/2018 3:53 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/10/2018 3:33 PM
Well, Richard, you wrote "for the most part," which suggests "most" HOAs don't abide by that a statute. I'm positive that our MC manages waaay more accounts than you do, many in CA, so know that their other accounts don't ignore this statute either.



WOW, as my ex used to said, "how rude and condensing".

I am basing my remarks on experience, which probably is waaay more than yours.

Just saying.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:3054


01/10/2018 4:55 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/10/2018 3:33 PM
Well, Richard, you wrote "for the most part," which suggests "most" HOAs don't abide by that a statute. I'm positive that our MC manages waaay more accounts than you do, many in CA, so know that their other accounts don't ignore this statute either.



Kerry, I might not be as large as your MC, and that's ok. I'm do quite well, thank you very much.

I intend to semi-retire by the end of this year and will let my daughter and son-in-law take over, AND they will grow the business I would have if I started 30 years, but hell I was so busy and happy making allll that money working for Countrywide.
AdamD1
(Indiana)

Posts:167


01/10/2018 5:14 PM  
Oh enough boys, we have bigger HOA fish to fry!
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