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Subject: Helpful article on service dogs
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SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:1986


10/26/2017 9:30 AM  
This is more related to people who try to pass off any ole' critter as a service or emotional support dog/cat/rat, etc., in public places, like restaurants, but HOAs may be able to glean useful information as they try to establish/update pet policies.

https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2017/10/23/states-leash-fake-service-dogs/24328/

Note you get a limited number of articles to view on this website - after 5 you have to subscribe
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


10/26/2017 9:52 AM  
The key info from the article:


"(Emotional support dogs are not covered under the ADA and can legally be denied access.)"


This applies to a 'place of public accommodation'.
FredS7
(Arizona)

Posts:784


10/26/2017 10:27 AM  
Recently I saw a posting at a grocery store stating that "emotional support" animals were not allowed, but stating that, for example, seeing eye dogs were.

Maybe the winds are shifting some on this issue.
AllumW
(Florida)

Posts:29


10/26/2017 10:47 AM  
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


10/26/2017 11:02 AM  
Great thread, good info.

The scary part for me is that we have people running around that "NEED" a pet for emotional support. If you deny that NEED, what will they become? Vegas Shooters maybe?? Would you want to sit in a movie theater with someone that was denied their emotional support animal's access?

It's time for another flood.....
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


10/26/2017 11:42 AM  
.....wait and see what the locusts accomplish.....

https://i1.wp.com/altereddimensions.net/main/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/image-129.png
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


10/26/2017 12:39 PM  
Posted By DouglasM6 on 10/26/2017 11:02 AM
It's time for another flood.....




Only if it can wash all the HOAs away.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


10/26/2017 12:52 PM  
Posted By CarlJ2 on 10/26/2017 12:39 PM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 10/26/2017 11:02 AM
It's time for another flood.....




Only if it can wash all the HOAs away.




In your mind the HOA's somehow created the need for emotional support animals??

HOA are people. If the people are nuts, the HOA is nuts.

But yes, it would wash away the HOAs
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


10/26/2017 1:58 PM  
Posted By DouglasM6 on 10/26/2017 12:52 PM
Posted By CarlJ2 on 10/26/2017 12:39 PM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 10/26/2017 11:02 AM
It's time for another flood.....




Only if it can wash all the HOAs away.




In your mind the HOA's somehow created the need for emotional support animals??

HOA are people. If the people are nuts, the HOA is nuts.

But yes, it would wash away the HOAs




No, I just don't care for the HOA concept at all. My opinion in the matter has nothing to do with support animals.
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


10/26/2017 3:02 PM  
Posted By CarlJ2 on 10/26/2017 12:39 PM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 10/26/2017 11:02 AM
It's time for another flood.....




Only if it can wash all the HOAs away.




Was that not juuust attempted down yonder in the republic of Texas ?


KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4381


10/26/2017 3:25 PM  
Let's, see. Carl's lived in an HOA for the first time for, what?, several months now? He's said in the past that "they" haven't tread on him yet. Imagine! But he feels compelled to insert his petty dig into this completely unrelated post.

I'm sorry to continue the hijack and hope others will return to the content of Sheila's HELPFUL contribution to this forum.

JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


10/26/2017 3:58 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/26/2017 3:25 PM
Let's, see. Carl's lived in an HOA for the first time for, what?, several months now? He's said in the past that "they" haven't tread on him yet. Imagine! But he feels compelled to insert his petty dig into this completely unrelated post.

I'm sorry to continue the hijack and hope others will return to the content of Sheila's HELPFUL contribution to this forum.





Well said.
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:770


10/26/2017 5:27 PM  
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."




Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog

JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


10/26/2017 10:52 PM  
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."




Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog




https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


10/27/2017 5:38 AM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/26/2017 3:25 PM
Let's, see. Carl's lived in an HOA for the first time for, what?, several months now? He's said in the past that "they" haven't tread on him yet. Imagine! But he feels compelled to insert his petty dig into this completely unrelated post.

I'm sorry to continue the hijack and hope others will return to the content of Sheila's HELPFUL contribution to this forum.





All true, the most prevalent issue I have with my HOA at the moment is that it exists.
AllumW
(Florida)

Posts:29


10/27/2017 5:52 AM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/26/2017 10:52 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."




Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog




https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/




Thanks Janet. As most businesses and HOA's are run by people not well versed or prepared for potential backlash from denying someone access because of a service animal, you're in a position to allow everyone access. You simply can't deny someone especially if it's illegal to ask for paperwork.
MichelleK5
(New York)

Posts:152


10/27/2017 6:47 AM  
DaveD3 - If an animal is trained by a professional organization, then yes, it is registered with them. So the question: "is your animal registered"? is misleading. Just because there aren't any official registries, doesn't mean a dog isn't registered. Like I said above - legitimate service dog trainers have their own registries, and they're perfectly legal.

Oh, and according to Civil Rights Division of the DOJ, it's pretty easy to have a "service" animal. Hell, you can train it yourself.

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
TimM11


Posts:102


10/27/2017 7:13 AM  
For this issue, it's federal law and the FHA that are relevant here, not what states legislate about stores, restaurants, etc. They're covered by different laws.
MichelleK5
(New York)

Posts:152


10/27/2017 8:47 AM  
This is actually the ruling under the FHA:
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF

Section II, paragraph II spells it out.

The ADA definition of "service animal" applies to state and local government programs, services
activities, and facilities and to public accommodations, such as leasing offices, social service
center establishments, universities, and other places of education.

"Because the ADA requirements relating to service animals are different from the requirements relating to assistance
animals under the FHAct and Section 504, an individual's use of a service animal in an ADA covered
facility must not he handled as a request for a reasonable accommodation under the
FHAct or Section 504. Rather, in ADA-covered facilities, an animal need only meet the
definition of "service animal" to he allowed into a covered facility."


In other words, it appears emotional support animals are covered under the FHA.

7Ibid.
II28 C.F.R. § 35.104; 28 C.F.R. § 36.104.
28 C.F.R. § 35.136(i); 28 C.F.R. § 36.302(0(9).


PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


10/27/2017 9:52 AM  
..... All true, the most prevalent issue I have with my HOA at the moment is that it exists. .....


Yet you voluntarily purchased property with Restrictions and Covenants.

CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


10/27/2017 10:10 AM  
Posted By PaininyourA on 10/27/2017 9:52 AM
..... All true, the most prevalent issue I have with my HOA at the moment is that it exists. .....


Yet you voluntarily purchased property with Restrictions and Covenants.





I never said otherwise.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


10/27/2017 1:31 PM  
Posted By MichelleK5 on 10/27/2017 8:47 AM
This is actually the ruling under the FHA:
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF

Section II, paragraph II spells it out.

The ADA definition of "service animal" applies to state and local government programs, services
activities, and facilities and to public accommodations, such as leasing offices, social service
center establishments, universities, and other places of education.

"Because the ADA requirements relating to service animals are different from the requirements relating to assistance
animals under the FHAct and Section 504, an individual's use of a service animal in an ADA covered
facility must not he handled as a request for a reasonable accommodation under the
FHAct or Section 504. Rather, in ADA-covered facilities, an animal need only meet the
definition of "service animal" to he allowed into a covered facility."


In other words, it appears emotional support animals are covered under the FHA.

7Ibid.
II28 C.F.R. § 35.104; 28 C.F.R. § 36.104.
28 C.F.R. § 35.136(i); 28 C.F.R. § 36.302(0(9).







Am I reading this wrong? Or is there no "definition of service animal" in there?

Can you go to the site you got that from and copy/paste their definition of "service animal"?

I'm curious now.
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:770


10/31/2017 6:30 PM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/26/2017 10:52 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."




Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog




https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/




I could go to those sites and register the meanest, most unsocial dog around and get (for a nominal fee) some sort of registration or tag that means absolutely nothing. For a little more, I can buy an official-looking vest for the dog that also means nothing.

I once saw a Golden Retriever at Disney World all decked out in "Allergy Dog" garb. Really? Nice dog, but sorry, you're full of it if you think Fido is any sort of actual service dog.
DrC1
(South Carolina)

Posts:18


11/02/2017 6:22 AM  
That is somewhat not true. Correct Service Animals are trained animals and covered by the ADA a Federal Law. Another Federal Law is the Fair Housing Act which DOES cover Emotional Support animals that DO NOT require any training or certification. It states that any person who has a disability and needs an emotional support animal cannot be denied access to housing, no pet policies, extra pet fees, etc. ---other acts cover public accommodations that are not housing.

All those with disabilities are protected.
Suggest you read the Fair Housing Act Section 504 OR the Public Accommodation Act.
DrC1
(South Carolina)

Posts:18


11/02/2017 6:22 AM  
That is somewhat not true. Correct Service Animals are trained animals and covered by the ADA a Federal Law. Another Federal Law is the Fair Housing Act which DOES cover Emotional Support animals that DO NOT require any training or certification. It states that any person who has a disability and needs an emotional support animal cannot be denied access to housing, no pet policies, extra pet fees, etc. ---other acts cover public accommodations that are not housing.

All those with disabilities are protected.
Suggest you read the Fair Housing Act Section 504 OR the Public Accommodation Act.
DrC1
(South Carolina)

Posts:18


11/02/2017 6:29 AM  
Service Dogs protected under the ADA are certified and trained to provide a service to those disabled. It is Emotional Support animals that have no required certification or training; however, if the person has a disability they can have their animal in housing, when dining, shopping or flying.....Disabled people are protected by the ADA, and Fair Housing Act ---
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/02/2017 7:31 AM  
However, for an Emotional Support Animal, the following documentation applies:




Sample letter for Companion Animal

As per: http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/PIRC/DocumentsAbstracts/Disability-Law-Center-R8/Letters/DLC-Animal-Letter/Sample-letter-for-Companion-Animal.doc


DATE

NAME OF PROFESSIONAL (therapist, physician, psychiatrist, rehabilitation counselor)
ADDRESS

Dear [HOUSING AUTHROITY/LANDLORD]:

[NAME OF TENANT] is my patient, and has been under my care since [DATE]. I am intimately familiar with his/her history and with the functional limitations imposed by his/her disability. He/She meets the definition of disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Fair Housing Act, and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

Due to mental illness, [FIRST NAME] has certain limitations regarding [SOCIAL INTERACTION/COPING WITH STRESS/ANXIETY, ETC]. In order to help alleviate these difficulties, and to enhance his/her ability to live independently and to fully use and enjoy the dwelling unit you own and/or administer, I am prescribing an emotional support animal that will assist [FIRST NAME] in coping with his/her disability.

I am familiar with the voluminous professional literature concerning the therapeutic benefits of assistance animals for people with disabilities such as that experienced by [FIRST NAME]. Upon request, I will share citations to relevant studies, and would be happy to answer other questions you may have concerning my recommendation that [FULL NAME OF TENANT] have an emotional support animal. Should you have additional question, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,

Signature

[NAME OF PROFESSIONAL]


W/O above 'certification' a claimed emotional support animal CAN be denied.

A Service Animal who maintains '4 on the floor' and absolute silence (except while warning a visually impaired partner) is covered by the ADA as long as wearing a vest.

The key is '4 on the floor' - 'google' it.
DrC1
(South Carolina)

Posts:18


11/02/2017 10:15 AM  
No not correct. Emotional support animals with a disability confirmed by doctor is covered by the Fair Housing Act section 504 and is protected under this Federal law.
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/02/2017 1:46 PM  
As per: http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/PIRC/DocumentsAbstracts/Disability-Law-Center-R8/Letters/DLC-Animal-Letter/Sample-letter-for-Companion-Animal.doc


Can we not read ?

As per HUD ..........
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/02/2017 1:49 PM  
Posted By DrC1 on 11/02/2017 10:15 AM
No not correct. Emotional support animals with a disability confirmed by doctor is covered by the Fair Housing Act section 504 and is protected under this Federal law.




The ONLY acceptable disability for an 'emotional support animal' is a MENTAL disability.

AS PER HUD

All other disabilities require a 'service animal' which adheres to '4 on the floor'.


An animal used to 'make me feel better' is NOT legitimate.
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:770


11/02/2017 6:45 PM  
Posted By DrC1 on 11/02/2017 6:29 AM
Service Dogs protected under the ADA are certified and trained to provide a service to those disabled. It is Emotional Support animals that have no required certification or training; however, if the person has a disability they can have their animal in housing, when dining, shopping or flying.....Disabled people are protected by the ADA, and Fair Housing Act ---




No certification is required for a service dog.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:1986


11/02/2017 7:30 PM  
Wow, this article certainly generated a lot of comments! I hope everyone has gotten something out of the discussion.

Just to muddy the waters even more (or clean it up a little), I found more articles on this matter:

https://www.hoalawblog.com/2010/11/what_are_homeowners_rights_reg_1.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/home-garden/michael-hunter/article9262943.html

From my read of these articles, it seems to me the following could be best practices for HOAs

1 – know the difference between a therapy dog, service or assistance dog and emotional support dog. Note I said dog – it doesn’t appear the laws applies to cats, potbellied pigs, monkeys, boa constrictors, etc. In fact, the HOA's policy might want to put those definitions in the policy so people will know exactly why the board will approve a reasonable accommodation request or not

2 –If the accommodation is granted after a doctor’s letter has been provided, document this decision via a board resolution. If other people squawk, tell them the owner has been granted a reasonable accommodation in accordance with fair housing laws – and leave it at that (if you disclose the disability, that’s a FHA violation)

4. Once you establish a policy, notify the homeowners, along with an effective date, how to apply for a reasonable accommodation, appeal rights, etc

5 – Be careful of how much information you ask for – you can’t ask the homeowner what the disability is or why the animal helps the owner. If you ask for more information after the doctor’s letter has been presented or still say no to the reasonable accommodation, you may be subject to an FHA violation

6. Renters have the same rights regarding service animals, but the article doesn’t say if the reasonable accommodation request has to go through the owner/landlord. I do think the boards should do something to ensure he/she is aware of and approves – because if the dog becomes a nuisance or damages common areas, the owner will ultimately be held responsible. How that should be done should be discussed with the association attorney.

7 - Whether it’s a service animal, emotional support animal or therapy animal, the board should insist on responsible pet ownership, just like with any other animal. In other words, clean up after your pet, keep it on a leash and under the owner’s control when it’s outside, make sure it’s had its shots and control the noise.

8 - If people have complaints about the dog or owner’s behavior or lack thereof, they should try to settle the matter with the owner first – the Board will only get involved if the common area has been damaged or several neighbors also complain. Do not accept anonymous complaints.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


11/02/2017 11:40 PM  
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/31/2017 6:30 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/26/2017 10:52 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."


Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog



https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/


I could go to those sites and register the meanest, most unsocial dog around and get (for a nominal fee) some sort of registration or tag that means absolutely nothing. For a little more, I can buy an official-looking vest for the dog that also means nothing.

I once saw a Golden Retriever at Disney World all decked out in "Allergy Dog" garb. Really? Nice dog, but sorry, you're full of it if you think Fido is any sort of actual service dog.


LOL ... YEP my point made ... you stated there is no such thing as a "registered" service dog. Yet you turned around and stated you could "register" the meanest, most unsocial dog around ...
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:770


11/03/2017 6:07 AM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 11/02/2017 11:40 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/31/2017 6:30 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/26/2017 10:52 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."


Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog



https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/


I could go to those sites and register the meanest, most unsocial dog around and get (for a nominal fee) some sort of registration or tag that means absolutely nothing. For a little more, I can buy an official-looking vest for the dog that also means nothing.

I once saw a Golden Retriever at Disney World all decked out in "Allergy Dog" garb. Really? Nice dog, but sorry, you're full of it if you think Fido is any sort of actual service dog.


LOL ... YEP my point made ... you stated there is no such thing as a "registered" service dog. Yet you turned around and stated you could "register" the meanest, most unsocial dog around ...




Frankly, I have no idea what point you're actually trying to make.

From the first link you posted, "Simply registering a dog does not make a dog a Service Dog".

Is it a "registered service dog"? No. It's either a service dog or not a service dog. There is no legal entity called a "registered service dog"

It could be a service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, in which case its JUST a service dog, not a "Registered service dog".
It could also be a non-service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, which still means nothing.





AdamD
(Indiana)

Posts:42


11/03/2017 7:24 AM  
A registered service dog is different than a registered, service dog. Guess we can't always distinguish the difference while speaking.
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/03/2017 7:50 AM  
service dogs are, by rigorous 2+ year training:

SILENT (unless performing a warning bark for a blind person prior to PULLING)

always, repeat ALWAYS, have 4 paws on the floor (unless standing to pass an object to their partner)

are NOT pets and provide an ACTUAL and REQUIRED service to their partner

PROTECTED BY FEDERAL LAW




Emotional Support Animals permit a mentally disabled person to 'navigate the world'. They are subject to the same hygienic requirements as any other animal, eg. not in a food shopping cart at the supermarket, not on the chair/table in a restaurant, etc.

Emotional support animals do NOT have the same 'admittance' requirements as Service Animals.

They merely can not be 'banned' by a landlord or HOA.

An ESA requires a SIGNED 'certificate of need' from a licensed mental health professional.
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/03/2017 7:53 AM  
Possession of an Emotional Support Animal is Prima Facie evidence of a mental illness.

Else, as per HUD, it does NOT qualify.


Tough Love, but true none-the-less.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


11/04/2017 7:28 PM  
Posted By DaveD3 on 11/03/2017 6:07 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 11/02/2017 11:40 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/31/2017 6:30 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/26/2017 10:52 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."


Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog



https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/


I could go to those sites and register the meanest, most unsocial dog around and get (for a nominal fee) some sort of registration or tag that means absolutely nothing. For a little more, I can buy an official-looking vest for the dog that also means nothing.

I once saw a Golden Retriever at Disney World all decked out in "Allergy Dog" garb. Really? Nice dog, but sorry, you're full of it if you think Fido is any sort of actual service dog.


LOL ... YEP my point made ... you stated there is no such thing as a "registered" service dog. Yet you turned around and stated you could "register" the meanest, most unsocial dog around ...


Frankly, I have no idea what point you're actually trying to make.

From the first link you posted, "Simply registering a dog does not make a dog a Service Dog". REALLY ... please show me where above I posted any such statement ... LOL ... all I did was post "service dog registry sites" in opposition to anyone stating there were no "service dog registration" available.

Is it a "registered service dog"? No. It's either a service dog or not a service dog. There is no legal entity called a "registered service dog". LOL ... Yet there are websites making such statements. If they are making potential illegal claims ... then my question would be why are they still in business???

It could be a service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, in which case its JUST a service dog, not a "Registered service dog".
It could also be a non-service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, which still means nothing. ??? Again ... why are sites bing able to have any such certificates if they are not following the law???

LOL ... you will find that I will debate an issue even if on the side of party I might go against ... WHY ... because these conversations are good!!!



JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


11/04/2017 7:28 PM  
Posted By DaveD3 on 11/03/2017 6:07 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 11/02/2017 11:40 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/31/2017 6:30 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/26/2017 10:52 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."


Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog



https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/


I could go to those sites and register the meanest, most unsocial dog around and get (for a nominal fee) some sort of registration or tag that means absolutely nothing. For a little more, I can buy an official-looking vest for the dog that also means nothing.

I once saw a Golden Retriever at Disney World all decked out in "Allergy Dog" garb. Really? Nice dog, but sorry, you're full of it if you think Fido is any sort of actual service dog.


LOL ... YEP my point made ... you stated there is no such thing as a "registered" service dog. Yet you turned around and stated you could "register" the meanest, most unsocial dog around ...


Frankly, I have no idea what point you're actually trying to make.

From the first link you posted, "Simply registering a dog does not make a dog a Service Dog". REALLY ... please show me where above I posted any such statement ... LOL ... all I did was post "service dog registry sites" in opposition to anyone stating there were no "service dog registration" available.

Is it a "registered service dog"? No. It's either a service dog or not a service dog. There is no legal entity called a "registered service dog". LOL ... Yet there are websites making such statements. If they are making potential illegal claims ... then my question would be why are they still in business???

It could be a service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, in which case its JUST a service dog, not a "Registered service dog".
It could also be a non-service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, which still means nothing. ??? Again ... why are sites bing able to have any such certificates if they are not following the law???

LOL ... you will find that I will debate an issue even if on the side of party I might go against ... WHY ... because these conversations are good!!!



GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:1631


11/04/2017 7:31 PM  
There really is no such thing as an "Official Service Dog Registration". Plenty of companies are out there willing to sell snake oil, however.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


11/04/2017 9:15 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 11/04/2017 7:31 PM
There really is no such thing as an "Official Service Dog Registration". Plenty of companies are out there willing to sell snake oil, however.


LOL ... but if our Legislators want to make Laws regarding this issue ... they need to insure that should not happen. The point that is coming out is this Law is potentially not worth the paper it is written on unless someone wants to SUE and prove a point. Newer laws do not even allow a business asking certain questions ... even if dog has a vest and but acting out and appears to be not properly trained. .
DrC1
(South Carolina)

Posts:18


11/05/2017 6:57 AM  
Only denied under the ADA for it does not cover Emotional Support dogs. However, it is not denied under the Fair Housing Act, which does cover Emotional Support animals. As far as public accommodations ---housing that is residential is considered a public accommodation if it allows people to drive on their street or walk on the sidewalks that are not residents but visitors.

HOA have to accept that those with DISABILITIES are a protected class. Now under Fair Housing Act if the disability IS NOT APPARENT you do have the right to ask for that resident to provide documentation by a doctor of the disability. BUT ONLY IF NOT APPARENT.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


11/05/2017 7:01 AM  
What a joke:

https://www.usserviceanimals.org/register/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Top%20Terms%20-%20AdWords&utm_term=emotional%20support%20animal%20certification&utm_content=emotional%20support%20animal
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/05/2017 8:08 AM  
thank you for providing the deadbeats with ammunition

MichelleK5
(New York)

Posts:152


11/05/2017 8:39 AM  
PITA, I don't understand why you're so against emotional support animals..??

There have been tons of studies that show they reduce stress, lower blood pressure, help with phobias, anxiety attacks, and depression. In some of these instances, they would qualify as service dogs, in others emotional support animals. But either way, you don't have be to "crazy" to have one.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/therapy-dog-offers-stress-relief-at-work-201107223111


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3408111/


In fact, considering some of your posts here, I'd bet you could benefit from one as well

DrC1
(South Carolina)

Posts:18


11/05/2017 9:53 AM  

My final comment.
Below is the Federal laws that protect those disabled. The ADA covers the Service DOG (Those professionally TRAINED to assist those that are disabled, which can include those with hearing or visual impairments. However, these dogs can be trained to assist those with other disabilities) These service dogs mostly wear vest but are not REQUIRED TO under the ADA.

Emotional Support dogs are support animals --and they DO NOT have to be only dogs. Do you remember the duck on the plane. Support animals assist those that are disabled. I can't believe that letter stated those with "mental illnesses" for Emotional support animals help those with medical problems, such as seizures and those that suffer seizures are not mentally ill.

Done --

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF
DrC1
(South Carolina)

Posts:18


11/05/2017 9:53 AM  

My final comment.
Below is the Federal laws that protect those disabled. The ADA covers the Service DOG (Those professionally TRAINED to assist those that are disabled, which can include those with hearing or visual impairments. However, these dogs can be trained to assist those with other disabilities) These service dogs mostly wear vest but are not REQUIRED TO under the ADA.

Emotional Support dogs are support animals --and they DO NOT have to be only dogs. Do you remember the duck on the plane. Support animals assist those that are disabled. I can't believe that letter stated those with "mental illnesses" for Emotional support animals help those with medical problems, such as seizures and those that suffer seizures are not mentally ill.

Done --

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/05/2017 11:38 AM  
Posted By DrC1 on 11/05/2017 6:57 AM
Only denied under the ADA for it does not cover Emotional Support dogs. However, it is not denied under the Fair Housing Act, which does cover Emotional Support animals. As far as public accommodations ---housing that is residential is considered a public accommodation if it allows people to drive on their street or walk on the sidewalks that are not residents but visitors.

HOA have to accept that those with DISABILITIES are a protected class. Now under Fair Housing Act if the disability IS NOT APPARENT you do have the right to ask for that resident to provide documentation by a doctor of the disability. BUT ONLY IF NOT APPARENT.





Mental illness is seldom apparent to the untrained

therefor

we-all DO have the right to ask for required documentation re: ESA
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/05/2017 11:48 AM  

Section IV. Conclusion
The definition of "service animal" contained in ADA regulations does not limit housing
providers' obligations to grant reasonable accommodation requests for assistance animals in
housing under either the FHAct or Section 504. Under these laws, rules, policies, or practices
must be modified to permit the use of an assistance animal as a reasonable accommodation in
housing when its use may be necessary to afford a person with a disability an equal opportunity
to use and enjoy a dwelling and/or the common areas of a dwelling, or may be necessary to allow
a qualified individual with a disability to participate in, or benefit from, any housing program or
activity receiving financial assistance from HUD.


WE ARE SCREWED


meter at 100%

OUT
PaininyourA
(South Carolina)

Posts:119


11/05/2017 11:54 AM  
PITA, I don't understand why you're so against emotional support animals..??


I am not as long as 4 on the floor applies.

How 'bout the rest of us with possible allergies who do NOT assume a shopping cart may have been occupied by an animal ?

Or a restaurant seat ?


If one is ill and requires a service/assistance animal - fine, but 4 on the floor AND TRAINED.

If one is 'ill' get a doctor's letter of need and STILL have the animal maintain 4 on the floor.


A yipping yapping small mutt in a shopping cart serves no legitimate medical need.

(or in a purse)

PERIOD

(I returned after being OUT due to a crossed post)
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:770


11/06/2017 5:01 PM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 11/04/2017 7:28 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 11/03/2017 6:07 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 11/02/2017 11:40 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/31/2017 6:30 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/26/2017 10:52 PM
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/26/2017 5:27 PM
Posted By AllumW on 10/26/2017 10:47 AM
These 2 statements means this will be difficult to be enforced.

"But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal."

"It is illegal to request documentation for the dog or to ask the nature of the owner’s disability."


Step 1
Ask if the dog is a registered service dog

Step 2
If the answer was YES, deny access because there's no such thing as a registered service dog



https://www.usservicedogregistry.org/

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/test-free-registration-redirect/

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-register-service-dog/


I could go to those sites and register the meanest, most unsocial dog around and get (for a nominal fee) some sort of registration or tag that means absolutely nothing. For a little more, I can buy an official-looking vest for the dog that also means nothing.

I once saw a Golden Retriever at Disney World all decked out in "Allergy Dog" garb. Really? Nice dog, but sorry, you're full of it if you think Fido is any sort of actual service dog.


LOL ... YEP my point made ... you stated there is no such thing as a "registered" service dog. Yet you turned around and stated you could "register" the meanest, most unsocial dog around ...


Frankly, I have no idea what point you're actually trying to make.

From the first link you posted, "Simply registering a dog does not make a dog a Service Dog". REALLY ... please show me where above I posted any such statement ... LOL ... all I did was post "service dog registry sites" in opposition to anyone stating there were no "service dog registration" available.

Is it a "registered service dog"? No. It's either a service dog or not a service dog. There is no legal entity called a "registered service dog". LOL ... Yet there are websites making such statements. If they are making potential illegal claims ... then my question would be why are they still in business???

It could be a service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, in which case its JUST a service dog, not a "Registered service dog".
It could also be a non-service dog with a fancy certificate with the word "registered" on it, which still means nothing. ??? Again ... why are sites bing able to have any such certificates if they are not following the law???

LOL ... you will find that I will debate an issue even if on the side of party I might go against ... WHY ... because these conversations are good!!!






Except:
1) you've made no point whatsoever
2) you're not actually debating anything with your posts
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
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