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Subject: Annual Meeting this Week
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Author Messages
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/06/2017 6:37 PM  
Well here we go, I'll keep you all informed. Tying to make the best of living under an HOA and the restrictions it places upon me.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


09/06/2017 6:45 PM  
You will do fine. You have been out here and seen our opinions on certain subjects, read your documents, and know your rights. You always know if you have a question or concern to ask ... and we will all try to help. It might surprise you
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


09/06/2017 6:59 PM  
You will likely hear the following complaints:

dog poop
trash containers not taken in
vehicles driving too fast
various tree issues

(those have been brought up in every general membership meeting I have attended)


KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/06/2017 7:32 PM  
If Tim is right, Carl, you might learn the extent t which Owners in your HOA do or do not care about appearances in your HOA.

But what's on the agenda? Is the membership voting for board members? How many openings & how many on the board? Is there any competition for the open spots? Have any candidates been campaigning?
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


09/06/2017 8:50 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/06/2017 6:59 PM
You will likely hear the following complaints:

dog poop
trash containers not taken in
vehicles driving too fast
various tree issues

(those have been brought up in every general membership meeting I have attended)


LOL ... Yep generally what you hear. Of course then you need to ask them to please provide "proof" of their allegations. Keep in mind Carl ... pictures are great for your HOA ... especially the trash containers and tree issues. For dog poop you pretty much need to capture the dog taking its squat and not cleaned up. But hey ... that is why most of us carry cell phones with photo and video technology ... LOL.

CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/07/2017 6:25 AM  
We have one member up for reelection based on someone who is stepping down (recent widower,selling and moving). The budget will get a review as I'm sure happens every time. There are some new parking rules being considered as well. This concerns me the most as I don't like the idea of someone telling me who or what I can park on my own property. Of course this speaks to my general distaste for this form of government as a whole. What do property rights even mean when a third party can dictate so much of my life under such the ever present threat of foreclosure.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:1986


09/07/2017 7:27 AM  
We know you aren't crazy about living in an HOA, but you're here now, so try to keep an open mind and LISTEN to what's going on. I suspect the parking rules may be less about what you park on your property as opposed to what's going on in the street, which you share with everyone else. Perhaps the rules are needed because
there are people who:

are creating their own mini used car lot in their front yard and now the cars are spilling onto the street causing parking issues for everyone else

have an abundance of junk cars (the ones that don't run and are banged up) - you do know a yard full of junk cars or anything else doesn't look good and can even attract vermin that could get into your own yard, don't you?

park large vehicles (e.g. semi-trailer cabs and boats) in such a way that they're creating blind spots and thus a driving hazard for everyone else

And so on. When the time comes, ask questions about anything you don't understand and remember, these rules are being considered, but not yet set in stone. It may be your questions could prompt more study on the subject or other options could be considered.

As far as property rights go, I agree that HOA living isn't for everyone, but in your previous posts, some folks explained why they are so popular with legislatures, and that's where you need to look if you'd like to see more homeowner rights. Just remember homeowner responsibilities come along with that. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people think and act like the sun, moon and stars rise and sets on their behind and therefore they can do whatever they want to whomever they want because it's THEIR house, dammit. It would be great if people treated folks like they themselves want to be treated instead of needing rules requiring people to clean up after their pets, not play extremely loud music at 3 am, cut the damn grass when it's approaching your kneecaps and what not.
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:150


09/07/2017 7:40 AM  
Carl, in Texas you cannot be foreclosed upon for failure to pay compliance violation fines. Any outstanding amounts due the Association will be collected at closing should you sell your property. Should you refinance your property, amounts owed the Association will be reported to the title company or (new) mortgage company when the statement of account is requested.

Of course if you do not pay your mortgage holder they can and probably will foreclose. Failure to pay regular association assessments can also lead to foreclosure but HOAs are generally advised against doing so by counsel unless there are very extreme circumstances.
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/07/2017 7:59 AM  
Thank you, Bill I appreciate that insight. I understand I can be foreclosed on by a mortgage company and that is to be expected. It's the HOA's power I worry over. Still, I'm here now so I'll try to keep an eye on them and ask questions as needed.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


09/07/2017 9:59 AM  
At our recent annual meeting (112 standalone patio homes) the main questions were: Replacing shrubbery/trees and the answer was with identical only otherwise permission will be needed. Parking in general with no over night street parking allowed and only weakly enforced. Parking non-allowed vehicles such as boats, trailers, etc. Trash barrels left out days after collection. Amazingly no dog poop issues which always came up at past meetings. I believe the reason was the biggest poop complainer has moved.

One lengthy question session concerning installing a basketball hoop which is clearly not allowed by the Covenants. Issue was discussed with one said wanting to allow and a few saying follow the Covenants. Permission was requested and granted to allow portable basketball hoops in one's driveway only with no street play.

Year end financials were presented with no questions. New budget presented with only one question about reserves and that was getting interest on it. 4 people ran for 3 open (3 of 5) BOD spots.

Except for the basketball hoop ruling which a few were not happy with, it was a rather boring meeting.

TimM11


Posts:102


09/07/2017 10:58 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/06/2017 6:59 PM
You will likely hear the following complaints:

dog poop
trash containers not taken in
vehicles driving too fast
various tree issues

(those have been brought up in every general membership meeting I have attended)




Heck, I've heard two of those just this week so far in my HOA.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:6789


09/07/2017 3:46 PM  
You can NOT be foreclosed on for anything but NOT paying your dues in a HOA PERIOD. Now liens are a bit more complicated. Liens can be put on for unpaid dues or unpaid violation corrections (Special cases). The unpaid violation correction are those "Special cases" which an owner is non-compliant, refuses to become compliant, HOA pays for the correction, and the owner refuses to pay that bill. These special cases are so very rare don't know of any HOA who has even done this option. They usually fine or sue instead.

Most of the time these horror stories of HOA foreclosures 9 times out of 10 is the owner's own fault. They aren't all innocent victims who did not play a role in their own foreclosure situation. It's just best to make it sound like the big bad meanie HOA is to blame. The owner did not pay their dues to the HOA because of "Protest" of something that slighted them. What action should the HOA take when they aren't being paid dues? What action do you take when someone owes you a debt and doesn't pay it? The SAME action. You go to court and take something away that satisfies the debt. In the case of the HOA, it's your home.

Former HOA President
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/07/2017 4:57 PM  
I understand there are not many ways a HOA will work toward foreclosure and that the State Government has a few protections in place to help mitigate HOA power in that regard. I also think that HOA's themselves are themselves innocent of blame when those situations arise. HOAs can and do make errors either intentionally or not and they should be called to account if needed. I maintain that there are not enough ways to do that. It's never going to sit well with me that there is a way they could foreclose on me and not be my mortgage holder.

In other news my Wife received a "Welcome to the Neighbourhood" gift basket from what the HOA calls a "Newcomers Committee" so that was nice. She told me it was a pleasant bit of small talk. Apparently they're trying to get baskets out to new owners ahead of the meeting this Saturday. It also marks my family's first interaction with people acting in an official HOA capacity. So far so good, I suppose. I do like apples after all.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


09/07/2017 5:17 PM  
There's an outside chance that you are going to learn that the acronym HOA actually stands for "the people that live in your neighborhood, including you", and you may even like those people!
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


09/07/2017 6:38 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/07/2017 3:46 PM

You can NOT be foreclosed on for anything but NOT paying your dues in a HOA PERIOD.




MELISSA,

We have gone over this many times.

That statement is simply incorrect.

It depends on the applicable laws in the State the Association is in.

I have provided proof of that to you many times. Please stop making such matter of fact statements that you have been shown to be incorrect. Again, here is proof that monetary charges may be used for foreclosure within Virginia, see: VA § 55-513 which states (in part):

The amount of any charges so assessed shall not be limited to the expense or damage to the association caused by the violation, but shall not exceed $50 for a single offense or $10 per day for any offense of a continuing nature and shall be treated as an assessment against the member's lot for the purposes of § 55-516


Now see VA § 55-516, which says in part:

At any time after perfecting the lien pursuant to this section, the property owners' association may sell the lot at public sale, subject to prior liens.
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/08/2017 6:48 AM  
Posted By DouglasM6 on 09/07/2017 5:17 PM
There's an outside chance that you are going to learn that the acronym HOA actually stands for "the people that live in your neighborhood, including you", and you may even like those people!




I am sure we will like some of those people, but the HOA is another matter.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


09/08/2017 9:17 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/07/2017 6:38 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/07/2017 3:46 PM

You can NOT be foreclosed on for anything but NOT paying your dues in a HOA PERIOD.




MELISSA,

We have gone over this many times.

That statement is simply incorrect.

It depends on the applicable laws in the State the Association is in.

I have provided proof of that to you many times. Please stop making such matter of fact statements that you have been shown to be incorrect. Again, here is proof that monetary charges may be used for foreclosure within Virginia, see: VA § 55-513 which states (in part):

The amount of any charges so assessed shall not be limited to the expense or damage to the association caused by the violation, but shall not exceed $50 for a single offense or $10 per day for any offense of a continuing nature and shall be treated as an assessment against the member's lot for the purposes of § 55-516


Now see VA § 55-516, which says in part:

At any time after perfecting the lien pursuant to this section, the property owners' association may sell the lot at public sale, subject to prior liens.




I believe, which means I'm not 100% sure, that here in Az you can use all the fines, fees and assessments, but you cannot include legal fees and/or collection fees.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/09/2017 4:22 PM  
Thank you, Tim for correcting Melissa. What worries me about some of her sweeping answers is that they might give incorrect information for some readers here who're new and would have no idea how to follow up.

Meantime, can we stick with Carl's original subject?

It seemed a little unusual that there is only one vacant seat on the board and that's due to a resignation. Most Boards seem to serve staggered terms where there potentially would be open seats every year. Remind us Carl. What do you Bylaws say about how many directors you should have and how long their terms are?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


09/09/2017 5:14 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/09/2017 4:22 PM

It seemed a little unusual that there is only one vacant seat on the board and that's due to a resignation.




That isn't unusual to me.



Posted By KerryL1 on 09/09/2017 4:22 PM

Most Boards seem to serve staggered terms where there potentially would be open seats every year.




I wouldn't say most.
I would say some.

It likely depends on the State the Association is in.
The Bylaws I've read rarely have staggered terms.


KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/09/2017 7:57 PM  
Interesting, thanks, Tim. So that means that some years every director could be new to the Board. I'd think it'd be beneficial to have a mix of vets for continuity and new board members for fresh ideas.

Anyhoo, I'm wondering about Carl's Board.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


09/09/2017 8:24 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/09/2017 7:57 PM
Interesting, thanks, Tim. So that means that some years every director could be new to the Board. I'd think it'd be beneficial to have a mix of vets for continuity and new board members for fresh ideas.




It would be beneficial.

My Association has the potential of a complete new board every year (if nobody runs for reelection).

Due to the potential loss of corporate knowledge, I created binders for each Officer position. Within the binders are the procedures, examples and minimum requirements any Board must do.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:894


09/10/2017 5:58 AM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/09/2017 7:57 PM
Interesting, thanks, Tim. So that means that some years every director could be new to the Board. I'd think it'd be beneficial to have a mix of vets for continuity and new board members for fresh ideas.

Anyhoo, I'm wondering about Carl's Board.


We don't have staggered terms and out of a five member board, I don't think we've ever had more than two new members elected, mostly because they chose not to run again. Rarely has an incumbent member who has run lost their seat.

I'm curious too about Carl's board. His earlier post seems to equate seats being up for election with a director stepping down. Seats should be up for election for any board member whose term has expired. Only one seat being open suggests either a 5 member board with 3 year staggered terms, or a 3 member board with 2 or 3 year terms.
PitA


Posts:0


09/10/2017 8:06 AM  
Posted By CarlJ2 on 09/07/2017 7:59 AM
Thank you, Bill I appreciate that insight. I understand I can be foreclosed on by a mortgage company and that is to be expected. It's the HOA's power I worry over. Still, I'm here now so I'll try to keep an eye on them and ask questions as needed.




YOU granted 'them' the power by accepting the deed with its RECORDED restrictions and covenants.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


09/10/2017 8:42 AM  
Posted By PitA on 09/10/2017 8:06 AM
Posted By CarlJ2 on 09/07/2017 7:59 AM
Thank you, Bill I appreciate that insight. I understand I can be foreclosed on by a mortgage company and that is to be expected. It's the HOA's power I worry over. Still, I'm here now so I'll try to keep an eye on them and ask questions as needed.




YOU granted 'them' the power by accepting the deed with its RECORDED restrictions and covenants.




Sort of like enlisting in the military. You grant them the power.
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/11/2017 1:08 PM  
Hey folks, sorry for the delay...looks like y’all are interested in how it went.

To address the election question…in theory the HOA is a staggered five person board of Directors but like many HOA dominions the Directors tend to run unopposed so historically the same folks stick around. So the current set of Oligarchs has been in power for sometime unless someone actually dies. In this case that is accurate since the guy lost his wife recently.

So we held the election to replace the resignee and the gentleman that ran was also unopposed so he was likely hand picked as a successor. Our HOA is a mix of retired people and mid-career folks so the personality dynamics look to be interesting. Naturally the folks on the board are of the retired variety since they have the time to do such things.

The parking rule amendment regarded how long one could have an RV or similar vehicle outside their house to load or unload before needing to be tucked away in a garage or behind the house out of site. if the garage is in the rear of the home. From what I gathered by chatting with the neighbours someone had left an RV in their driveway for three days while they slowly moved a bunch of stuff out of it to the their garage. After that the RV was relocated outside of the HOA’s domain, but not before it annoyed someone enough to put it on the agenda for consideration. This is a HOA mentality thing as I will never understand why someone would care about that. So they passed a rule that you’e not allowed to keep an RV out on your driveway.

The Budget review went by without much comment. I don’t know if that is because it’s dry there is a lack of understanding for how large budgets work or what. I learned it has been a little over ten years since the last reserve study. That sounds too long to me, but that is a gut feeling. I don’t have a good sense of what the periodicity should be.

By meeting’s end I did not see any immediate threats to me, my family, or the neighborhood from our HOA so I chalk that up as good enough for now. The challenge in the long term is to maintain vigilance on them.
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/11/2017 1:14 PM  
Posted By CarlJ2 on 09/11/2017 1:08 PM

The parking rule amendment regarded how long one could have an RV or similar vehicle outside their house to load or unload before needing to be tucked away in a garage or behind the house out of site. if the garage is in the rear of the home. From what I gathered by chatting with the neighbours someone had left an RV in their driveway for three days while they slowly moved a bunch of stuff out of it to the their garage. After that the RV was relocated outside of the HOA’s domain, but not before it annoyed someone enough to put it on the agenda for consideration. This is a HOA mentality thing as I will never understand why someone would care about that. So they passed a rule that you’e not allowed to keep an RV out on your driveway.




Sorry last bit here should read... "for more than three days' time" I sure wish we had an edit button. This MB software strikes me as very old.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


09/11/2017 1:22 PM  
Posted By CarlJ2 on 09/11/2017 1:08 PM

From what I gathered by chatting with the neighbours someone had left an RV in their driveway for three days while they slowly moved a bunch of stuff out of it to the their garage. After that the RV was relocated outside of the HOA’s domain, but not before it annoyed someone enough to put it on the agenda for consideration. ... So they passed a rule that you’e not allowed to keep an RV out on your driveway.




This, to me, is where Boards pass rules to go after a single individual or to appease a single individual.

That should never happen. However, it does.

I find it happens more in Associations were the same Board has been sitting for a long time.

To fix this, others must step up and serve.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/11/2017 3:48 PM  
Say, Carl, an you remind us how many homes are in your HOA? How old is it?

When you write that "in theory" there are staggered terms, what, exactly do your bylaws say? How long is one term?

It's very common to have to beg homeowners to run for the Board, so I'm not sure "oligarch" is the right word.

Yes, 10 years without a reserves study is waaaay too long. Does TX have any laws that say they must occur more often? Do you have many amenities like swimming pools, tennis courts, clubhouse, or??

In CA, new rules have to be sent out to Owners for a 30-day comment period before final board approval. Do your governing docs have any such rules? Or does TX?

From what I've read on this site, 3 days limit in driveways is pretty common, btw. But a sudden rule change such as you say occurred doesn't seem quite right. One complaint at one meeting? Or maybe this has been an ongoing concern among quite a few?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


09/11/2017 3:55 PM  
Carl

It is common for how long does something go on before it annoys someone. I have never had a problem with a neighbor parking a boat/trailer over night when our Covenants say not allowed but some neighbors do and will report it. Same as trash barrels left out longer then allowed. How long before it annoys someone? Personally I think an RV in the driveway for 3 days is a bit much but at least it is a definition which is better then no definition.

So are you saying, all in all nothing exciting happened at the meeting?



SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:1986


09/11/2017 5:04 PM  
You barely know these people, so why call them oligarchs? Someone could say you continue to be pissed off because you’re in a HOA so it won't matter what they say or do. You said in earlier posts you live here because your wife really liked the house - if you're still pissed that she won the coin flip or whatever you did to go along with the decision to buy, take it up with her

I agree that changeover in a HOA is a good thing if only to prevent burnout of really good people, but did it ever occur to you that maybe they’re still there because they’re GOOD at what they do? That doesn’t mean they won’t make mistakes – I agree with Tim that the parking rule seems to be more of a selective enforcement issue and you'll find out soon enough if people rebel against it. On the other hand, it may be they're doing the job year after year because no one else wants it. Now that you're a resident, you can spend a little time observing and then decide if you’d like to offer your services or at least join an advisory committee to get some insight on why decisions are being made.

You might want to start with the budget committee, if there is one, because I agree 10 years is too long to go without a reserve study. Most recommend intervals of 3-5 years, so there’s an idea you might want to push – at least see if they can get one done next year.

In sum, it would appear the meeting didn’t have the fireworks you might have expected – I can’t tell if you’re relieved or a little disappointed. You ended with “I did not see any immediate threats to me, my family, or the neighborhood from our HOA so I chalk that up as good enough for now. The challenge in the long term is to maintain vigilance on them.”

It’s really not that difficult - be a good neighbor, read the board meeting minutes, attend a few meetings once in a while along with the annual meeting and don’t be afraid to ask questions. Above all, get to know these people and – you seem to be letting your dislike of HOAs get in the way of giving your neighbors a chance to show what they’re about. That can bite both ways – do you want wifey to be known as the really nice lady with a (fill in the blank) for a husband because you keep looking for something to pounce on? Give them a chance to get to know you – you may find you really like the people, even the ones on the board.

PS – should you run into a conflict, you might want to like your wife take the lead in resolving them, as she seems to have a better relationship with the neighbors or at least isn’t as judgmental.
AugustinD


Posts:603


09/11/2017 6:11 PM  
What Shelia said. Increasingly my preferred response to people who complain is, "Show me exactly where in the governing documents a violation has occurred. If you cannot do this, and you are not willing to serve on the Board or Architectural Control Committee, then I hope you can understand my disinterest in giving you anymore of my precious free time. It is time I need to renew from addressing, unpaid, all the legitimate concerns here."
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


09/11/2017 8:50 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 09/11/2017 6:11 PM
What Shelia said. Increasingly my preferred response to people who complain is, "Show me exactly where in the governing documents a violation has occurred. If you cannot do this, and you are not willing to serve on the Board or Architectural Control Committee, then I hope you can understand my disinterest in giving you anymore of my precious free time. It is time I need to renew from addressing, unpaid, all the legitimate concerns here."


LOL ... My same response ... SHOW me where the governing documents are being violated. MOST of the time they cannot show you and the issue dies.
GeorgeR8
(Arizona)

Posts:138


09/12/2017 3:39 AM  
Posted By DouglasM6 on 09/08/2017 9:17 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 09/07/2017 6:38 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/07/2017 3:46 PM

You can NOT be foreclosed on for anything but NOT paying your dues in a HOA PERIOD.




MELISSA,

We have gone over this many times.

That statement is simply incorrect.

It depends on the applicable laws in the State the Association is in.

I have provided proof of that to you many times. Please stop making such matter of fact statements that you have been shown to be incorrect. Again, here is proof that monetary charges may be used for foreclosure within Virginia, see: VA § 55-513 which states (in part):

The amount of any charges so assessed shall not be limited to the expense or damage to the association caused by the violation, but shall not exceed $50 for a single offense or $10 per day for any offense of a continuing nature and shall be treated as an assessment against the member's lot for the purposes of § 55-516


Now see VA § 55-516, which says in part:

At any time after perfecting the lien pursuant to this section, the property owners' association may sell the lot at public sale, subject to prior liens.




I believe, which means I'm not 100% sure, that here in Az you can use all the fines, fees and assessments, but you cannot include legal fees and/or collection fees.




You can't use fines for foreclosure in Arizona. Only HOA fees and assessments.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


09/12/2017 7:20 AM  
Posted By CarlJ2 on 09/11/2017 1:08 PM

By meeting’s end I did not see any immediate threats to me, my family, or the neighborhood from our HOA




Congrats!!


Thank you George for the correction on Az law.
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/12/2017 7:36 AM  
Kerry, I said, ‘in theory’ because the present board has run unopposed for the last few three year terms. So although the elections are staggered it has not made much difference since these folks keep getting elected anyway. Sorry I was not clear on that. The bylaws provide for a 45 day comment period by owners. This was done, but I did not take part since I was still finishing up closing on the house and moving in and all that. I learned at the meeting that I was on the mailing list now for that sort of correspondence so I’ll be seeing it in the future.

Tim, I don’t know if the recent RV parking situation was just one incident or a straw breaking the camel's back that caused the board to take action. I simply don’t have the history to know the answer, but it’s a good question. It may not be a sudden rule change or selective enforcement.
I’ll bring up the reserve study to the board since it is a long time. I’ll have to look up the applicable TX statute too. Even if the state allows ten years it’s certainly time to do it again based on the aggregate opinion of y’all.

I use the term Oligarch because that is what the board is. It’s rule by a few who have power within a government. I think you’re reading too much into my tone when I use the term so I’ll stop. I don’t mean to confuse folks. It’s also true I don’t like being part of an HOA so I’m trying to get through it as best I can. It’s all about mitigation at this point since I’m here now.

I was not necessarily looking for the meeting to be calm or have fireworks. I was interested in the tone of the board toward the people under them, of course. Primarily on the lookout for things that might hurt me or my family as time goes on. So, yes I’ll keep on paying attention to the HOA’s activities it’s the price I’m going to pay for living here. At the same time I’ll be a good neighbor, too. I’m interested in getting to know them and hopefully call them friends. This may include the board people too, though they’re all much older than I am.

The Wife seems happy so far so that is good. Also she’s free to lead on an issue with the HOA if we have one.
PitA


Posts:0


09/12/2017 8:45 AM  
So they passed a rule that you’e not allowed to keep an RV out on your driveway.


assuming: fee simple stand alone homes


any such restriction MUST be in the actual Covenants and Restrictions (as an actual restriction on the property)


to amend the CCRs would require a 'plurality' (generally 2/3) of the TOTAL membership voting AYE


their rule 'apparently' is as porous as their brains

again, assuming: fee simple stand alone homes
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/12/2017 2:44 PM  
Thanks, Carl, for your clear reply about Owners being permitted at 45 day comment period before a new rule is approved by the Board. At least that's how I understand what you wrote. Right? So when the 3-day limit for parking certain vehicles in the driveway was approved, it sounds like the correct procedure was followed.

Now about directors and terms: can you supply the wording of your bylaws? I really can't tell what "in theory" means unless I see the words. Do your bylaws also say there must be an election of board members annually?
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/12/2017 4:12 PM  
The terms are staggered so not every board member is up for election every year.

"Section 5.1 Terms of Office, The Directors shall serve staggered three (3) year terms. At the expiration of the initial term of office of each respective Director, his/her successor shall be elected to serve a term of three (3) years. The Directors shall hold office until their successors have been elected and hold their first meeting."

The "in theory" bit was meant to explain the fact that for at least the last three cycles the BOD members have run unopposed so they may as well not be staggered at all. It's all the same people over and over. The unusual thing this year was person who took the place of the resignee will simply finish out the term of the person that left in the interest of preserving the timeline.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


09/12/2017 5:08 PM  
Carl

As to if an appointee serves until the next election or fills out the entire remainder of the term should be in your Bylaws. If only to the next term this can throw off staggering terms and occasionally staggering terms need to be fixed. One way is if there are multiple people running designate the highest vote netter to a full term and the lesser vote netter to a lesser term to bring the staggering back in balance.

One other note. Typically a BOD appointed BOD Member can be replaced by the BOD.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/12/2017 5:56 PM  
Sorry my question wasn't clearer, Carl. Do your bylaws say that there must be an annual meeting of the members (Owners) and the purpose of the meeting? Usually it'd be to elect a board of directors.

If your bylaws don't say something like that and your HOA is incorporated, TX corporations code does most likely will tell you when elections must be held.

But, as noted above, in some HOAs it's very difficult to persuade Owners to be on the Board. Is there a Finance or Budget Committee that might be looking into your lack of a current reserves study?

Say, does your HOA have a property mgr.?
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


09/12/2017 8:00 PM  
Posted By CarlJ2 on 09/12/2017 4:12 PM
The terms are staggered so not every board member is up for election every year.

"Section 5.1 Terms of Office, The Directors shall serve staggered three (3) year terms. At the expiration of the initial term of office of each respective Director, his/her successor shall be elected to serve a term of three (3) years. The Directors shall hold office until their successors have been elected and hold their first meeting."

The "in theory" bit was meant to explain the fact that for at least the last three cycles the BOD members have run unopposed so they may as well not be staggered at all. That is due to one of two reasons: 1) The owners like who they have previously elected and feel they have been doing a good job, or 2) Your HOA has apathy ... where others are not willing to serve. Keep in mind everyone purchased in an HOA and potentially everyone should take a turn serving in some capacity whether it is on the Board or the ACC. While you have some who are willing to do the job for a time ... at some point even the die hands will need a break. It's all the same people over and over. The unusual thing this year was person who took the place of the resignee will simply finish out the term of the person that left in the interest of preserving the timeline. It potentially is not just to preserve the timeline, but also potentially due to governing documents or especially State Law. Most state laws allow the Board to fill a position of someone who stepped down ... then it is one of two scenarios 1) is to fill the position until the end of term, or 2) the position is filled until the next annual election whereby the Owners elect an individual to complete the remainder of the term. Either option would keep the staggard term limits if that is what the HOA governing documents contain.

JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


09/12/2017 8:02 PM  
Darn that no edit ... should be "die hards" and not "die hands" ... LOL
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/13/2017 6:44 AM  
I'm sorry, Kerry, I guess I was not seeing what you were getting at. I'm not trying to be cryptic. Yes the bylaws mandate an annual meeting of the owners and board. Yes the HOA has a Management Company.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/13/2017 9:31 AM  
So, since you must have an annual meeting, doesn't a ballot go out to Owners to vote for directors? And there's a space for write-ins? I'm not saying that all HOAs must send out ballots if there aren't enough volunteers to be directors. But doesn't your property mgr. (PM) send out a memo calling for candidates a few weeks before the annual meeting & election?

By the way, Your PM, if accessible, i.e., onsite full or part time, should be able to answer your questions about why it's been too long since you've had a reserves study. Even if not on your premises at all, you should be able to email the PM with that question.
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/13/2017 5:55 PM  
Sure the ballots were sent out, but only had the one name on it. I don't recall a spot for a write in, but there probably was. I did the bad thing this time around and did not vote for the one guy running. I did not think I had enough information to vote and don't know enough folks to write in so I let it go, but that is a one time deal. Remember, I've only been in the house about three months' total at this point. I will reach out the the PM and/or the board about the Reserves. Particularly since this group confirmed my thoughts that ten years is too long. I hope they don't give me any trouble for asking for financial information.
MaureenM1
(PA)

Posts:318


09/14/2017 4:20 AM  
I have our annual meeting tonight. We have one open seat, however, no one has stepped up to run for it. The current board member did not submit paperwork (which happened 3 years ago when they were up for reelection). I had to nominate from the floor and the board appointed at the Annual Meeting.

I will need to see if anyone nominates from the floor, but they usually don't.

Can the appointment be postponed until a Special Meeting of the remaining board members meet and decide on the appointment or does it have to be decided tonight?

Our bylaws do not specify and I will be checking with our board attorney who attends the annual meeting.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


09/14/2017 5:23 AM  
Maureen

If no ones steps forward or gets nominated tonight, the BOD does not have to fill the spot tonight. As a matter of fact the Annual Meeting is not a BOD Meeting. Filling the empty BOD position is BOD business. The BOD can wait until their next meeting.


DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:894


09/14/2017 6:55 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/14/2017 5:23 AM

If no ones steps forward or gets nominated tonight, the BOD does not have to fill the spot tonight. As a matter of fact the Annual Meeting is not a BOD Meeting. Filling the empty BOD position is BOD business. The BOD can wait until their next meeting.


John is right, but assuming notice requirements are met the BOD can have a meeting immediately following the member meeting. We do that if there is pressing business that needs to be addressed following the election.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


09/14/2017 8:19 AM  
There probably is a protocol, Carl, re: requesting records from your HOA. You'd want to make your request in writing to the PM and ask for a copy of the most recent reserve study. The PM can charge you for a copy if it wants to, but since most can be sent via email, our PM doesn't charge for copies.

Your bylaws probably say how to request records inspections. If silent, TX law --probably corporate law or HOA law if there is any--will tell you.
MaureenM1
(PA)

Posts:318


09/14/2017 1:43 PM  
Then would the board member who term expires not on the board until if and when reappointed by the remaining board members? or are they involved in the process of appointment?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:7010


09/14/2017 2:47 PM  
Maureen

Typically if no one runs for the BOD, the existing BOD stays in place. Thus if you had term(s) expiring, those BOD Members stay on.

Until someone resigns, they are still on the BOD and no vacancy exists. You cannot say well I am going to resign if I agree with who the BOD appoints to replace me. Resign or not.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


09/14/2017 9:54 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/14/2017 2:47 PM
Maureen

Typically if no one runs for the BOD, the existing BOD stays in place. Thus if you had term(s) expiring, those BOD Members stay on.

Until someone resigns, they are still on the BOD and no vacancy exists. You cannot say well I am going to resign if I agree with who the BOD appoints to replace me. Resign or not.


John hit the nail on the head regarding your issue ... Most likely your Bylaws and/or State Laws will note that existing Board remains if there is nobody running for the office. Later if any Board member does not want to remain they can resign ... then the other remaining Board members can "appoint" someone to fill the position for the remainder of that members term or until your next annual election, or as otherwise noted in your governing documents.
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