Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Saturday, November 25, 2017
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!


SBCA: Free education for HOAs and condos on satellite placement issues.
(National Trade Organization)
Helping HOAs, condos and property managers with satellite placement issues since 1986.
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: HOA Copy of Driver's License
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/22/2017 9:37 AM  
Hello'
I wish to know is the HOA in the state of Georgia legally authorized a copy of my driver license. I have refused to give the HOA a copy of my driver license to be allowed to park on the property; where I own a home. And the HOA have left three notices on my vehicle stating to tow it. I have paid the fee for the parking permit and I have not received the parking permit or a refund. I have not received notice stating why I have not received my parking permit or notice stating why they are going to tow my vehicle.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:1986


05/22/2017 9:50 AM  
If you want legal advice, you need to see a private attorney. You might also want to check your documents to see what it says about parking.

As a practical matter, I don't see why the HOA would need a copy of your driver's license (most don't list the make, model or color of the car, nor its license plate). That said, you said you received three notices threatening to tow your car. What happened after you got the FIRST one - had you already paid for the parking permit? If so, did you notify the property manager (and give them a copy of your receipt?) Have you brought this to the attention of the HOA board of directors? If so, what was their response?

You didn't say if you are a homeowner or are renting the unit - that shouldn't make a huge difference, but this sounds like you are. If that's the case, you need to contact the landlord and have him or her fight this on your behalf. The landlord is a member of the HOA, not the tenant, but he/she is ultimately responsible for ensuring all his/her visitors, tenants or members of the household comply with HOA rules. Therefore, the owner should have arranged for you to get a parking pass when you rented the unit.
MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:215


05/22/2017 10:23 AM  
The OP is a home owner.

Read your CC&Rs, and follow the rules. As a home owner, we can assume you have the absolute right to park your vehicle where you are allowed to do so.

Inquire where your pass is, and why you haven't recieved it. Also ask by what authority in the CC&Rs they are witholding your pass. If you get towed take them to small claims for every cent you lose.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:894


05/22/2017 10:49 AM  
I'm not familiar with GA law, but my guess is that there is no law against them asking. As Mark mentioned, whether the HOA has authority to require the DL should be in your governing docs. If you have doubts about the requirement, ask the board under what authority they are asking for the DL.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


05/22/2017 3:26 PM  
I would also ask what they intend to do with the information, who will have access to the information and how that information will be protected.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:6789


05/22/2017 3:57 PM  
I don't have my social security number on my Driver's license. All I have is my address and my picture. Not much information to be gleamed from it that isn't already public.

Former HOA President
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


05/22/2017 3:58 PM  
I'm with Tim. We have gated underground garages and even then, though we ask for lots car info of residents & guests, we do not ask for DL info. What's the purpose??
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:4386


05/22/2017 4:01 PM  
I'm with Tim. We have gated underground garages and even then, though we ask for lots car info of residents & guests, we do not ask for DL info. What's the purpose??
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/22/2017 5:21 PM  
What is a cc&r?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


05/22/2017 5:50 PM  
Posted By HenryH on 05/22/2017 5:21 PM
What is a cc&r?




CC&Rs

also known as:

Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions
The Declaration
The Covenants
Deed Restrictions
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


05/22/2017 5:51 PM  
Let me add that the deed restrictions (CC&Rs) is considered the contract you agreed to comply with when you purchased your property.
MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:215


05/22/2017 9:05 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/22/2017 3:57 PM
I don't have my social security number on my Driver's license. All I have is my address and my picture. Not much information to be gleamed from it that isn't already public.




With the glaring exception of your DL number.
PitA


Posts:0


05/23/2017 5:48 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/22/2017 3:57 PM
I don't have my social security number on my Driver's license. All I have is my address and my picture. [I]Not much information to be gleamed from it that isn't already public[/I].




WRONG AGAIN

YOUR DATE OF BIRTH IS ON THE LICENSE

Give me your full name, address, and DOB and I will show you the danger.

While your DOB 'may' be a public record at your local 'bureau of vital statistics' it is NOT published nor obtainable w/o proper cause or ID.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:14861


05/23/2017 7:40 AM  
Having been the victim of identity theft, I don't wish that on anyone.

Here are some articles:



8 Numbers Identity Thieves Want to Steal From You

What is Identity Theft?

Top 16 Pieces of Your Information Identity Thieves Crave
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:1986


05/23/2017 9:05 AM  
To recap Henry, you need to read your documents (CCRs) to see exactly what the rules are regarding parking. In light of what Tim said about identity theft (and my own work as an investigator), I think you probably do have legitimate concerns as to what the HOA will do with the information and how it’ll protect it from unauthorized individuals. But first, you need to get this parking permit business settled – I’d concentrate on getting that, especially if the fee’s been paid. Once you have it, ask for a hearing before the board and make your case.

By the way, the fact that you didn’t know what CCRs are concerns me, although it doesn’t surprise me. Unfortunately, homeowners aren’t always told what it means to live in a HOA community and are surprised when they get violation notices like this. This is a good time for you to read through everything so you’ll know what to expect – and what you need to expect out of the Board. If they aren’t following CCRs or their own rules, someone needs to point that out.
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/23/2017 11:33 AM  
First' I wish to say thanks to you all !_!
The property manager for the HOA did respond and she denied my parking permit. No' she have not refunded my money. Her reason for denying me the parking permit; she said that she need to be able to see the driver's license number and the expiration date on the license, I did mark over this information. She stated that she need to be able to see if the license have not expired. She did not say why she need to be able to read the license number. The only thing I allowed her to be able to read on the license was; name, address, gender, and photo.

Now' I did request a copy of the CC&Rs and Bylaws, thanks to you all! No where is the CC&Rs, Bylaws and the HOA Handbooklet. Do it say anything about give them a copy of my driver's license. It just states to apply for a parking permit to be allowed to park in the common parking area. Also' I want to let you all know, that the property manager per the HOA stated they need copy of everyone that reside in our home copies of thir license. They did not state why they need everyones license. The property manager did state that they have requested a hearing with the HOA Board. I was not given a date. But' per the CC&Rs they have not less than 7 days nor more than 21 days to conduct the hearing. In the meantime per the CC&Rs they can still fine me and each fine is seperate and tow my car. Now' help me to understand something, I thought this was about a parking permit. Not about my driver's license. This is about my car parked in the common area parking on the HOA's property; is it not? And' please can someone explain to me, if they do not respond or have the hearing within 7 - 21 days, what will have or what should be me next action to take?

Oh' I am going to visit the Law Library to do futher researching! Once again' THANKS !_!
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/23/2017 11:33 AM  
First' I wish to say thanks to you all !_!
The property manager for the HOA did respond and she denied my parking permit. No' she have not refunded my money. Her reason for denying me the parking permit; she said that she need to be able to see the driver's license number and the expiration date on the license, I did mark over this information. She stated that she need to be able to see if the license have not expired. She did not say why she need to be able to read the license number. The only thing I allowed her to be able to read on the license was; name, address, gender, and photo.

Now' I did request a copy of the CC&Rs and Bylaws, thanks to you all! No where is the CC&Rs, Bylaws and the HOA Handbooklet. Do it say anything about give them a copy of my driver's license. It just states to apply for a parking permit to be allowed to park in the common parking area. Also' I want to let you all know, that the property manager per the HOA stated they need copy of everyone that reside in our home copies of thir license. They did not state why they need everyones license. The property manager did state that they have requested a hearing with the HOA Board. I was not given a date. But' per the CC&Rs they have not less than 7 days nor more than 21 days to conduct the hearing. In the meantime per the CC&Rs they can still fine me and each fine is seperate and tow my car. Now' help me to understand something, I thought this was about a parking permit. Not about my driver's license. This is about my car parked in the common area parking on the HOA's property; is it not? And' please can someone explain to me, if they do not respond or have the hearing within 7 - 21 days, what will have or what should be me next action to take?

Oh' I am going to visit the Law Library to do futher researching! Once again' THANKS !_!
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:1633


05/23/2017 12:05 PM  
Boards can enact reasonable Rules & Regulations governing the community and the property. If they claim the requirement to show a driver's license is a "reasonable" prerequisite for obtaining a parking permit then that's going to be where you should focus. In that case nothing in the other governing documents will necessarily help you, unless, of course, the rules for obtaining a parking permit contradict anything in the other docs.

Personally, I think it is not reasonable.
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/23/2017 12:14 PM  
They want a copy not just show it to them
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:1986


05/23/2017 12:40 PM  
If it’s not in the documents or HOA handbook, do you know if the board set another rule about this some time ago? If so, when? Check the board meeting minutes – there may be a copy of a resolution in which this rule was adopted, perhaps before you moved in. Ideally, the board would have notified all homeowners with an effective date and updated the HOA handbook accordingly.

If you don't find anything in the law library about a situation like this, that doesn't mean the board can't (or can) enact such a rule - the real issue is whether it's really necessary. I suspect someone thought it would be a good idea to collect driver’s license information to better match it with the car, but personally, I think the only information the Association might need is information on your car (make, model, year, color and VIN). That can be cross walked to a specific permit, so if you see two 2007 black Cadillac Escalades, for example, you can see which one has a permit and if the VIN number matches office records. That can help prevent unauthorized cars from clogging up the parking lot.

Or the association can simply assign parking spaces and let the homeowners be responsible for who parks there We recently repainted our parking lots and the assigned parking spaces have numbers that correspond to a specific unit. If someone's in a numbered spot, it's up to the homeowner to file a complaint and have it towed.
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/23/2017 12:40 PM  
I told the property manager I am willing to show it to them, dhe said that is not sufficient
MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:215


05/23/2017 12:52 PM  
What would the PM company do if a vehicle was owned by a company? The car permit is independent of the driver.
MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:215


05/23/2017 12:53 PM  
You're not asking for a driving permit, you are asking for a parking permit.
GwenG
(Florida)

Posts:552


05/23/2017 1:23 PM  
PITA does it again! HE is exactly right. The HOA/Condo has no right to driver license information. It states a date of birth and the information there can be used for identify theft. I have been victim of identity theft. It is unknown how my info was "thieved" but you can believe I am much more mindful of sharing personal identification information with anyone just because they ask.

My HOA is required to re-certify its Over 55 status every two years and asks everyone for copies of the Driver License or birth certificate. I say "No".

Even if the Covenants attempted to force me to disclose my personal information, I would disregard what the Covenants say about it. I would rather deal with the HOA than deal with the hell that the IRS and banks put me through when my SS# was filed on and credit was opened in my name.
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/23/2017 4:25 PM  
Hello' Everyone,
Okay I have given in to the request for copy of my driver's license. But' per there CC&Rs and Community Handbook. The other two autos are on my personal private lot, per the CC&Rs. Therefore' I am not giving them copies of these driver's license for the other two autos. I just sent them the copy of my driver's license, so' I will inform you all of the outcome. I state in the email that the permit is for parking in the community common parking area. And the PM do not need anymore info.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:6789


05/23/2017 4:34 PM  
Confused? Do you mean they want a copy of your Driver's license of which your legal to drive or a copy of the Car license on the car? Do they want both?

I agree don't think they need a copy of your driver's license but should be able to view it to verify your identification. Your Car Tags a bit different. Need to verify those are your vehicles and registered. I am sure that's in place to make sure proper licensed vehicles are in compliance with the law. (NOT just HOA law).

Former HOA President
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/23/2017 4:49 PM  
They want the license not tag info
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


05/26/2017 7:48 AM  
Posted By HenryH on 05/23/2017 4:49 PM
They want the license not tag info




Henry- Please define License and Tag for us.

is the vehicle registration they are asking for?

I don't understand how there are other licenses for the other vehicle? Do people in GA have more than one driver's license?
MarkM31
(Washington)

Posts:215


05/26/2017 7:53 AM  
Many people refer to the proof of yearly vehicle registration (the little stickers that go on the license plate and say things like May 18) as tags. The OP is refering to the actual drivers license that you take a drivers test for and renew sporadically.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


05/26/2017 8:09 AM  
Posted By HenryH on 05/23/2017 4:25 PM
Hello' Everyone,
Okay I have given in to the request for copy of my driver's license. But' per there CC&Rs and Community Handbook. The other two autos are on my personal private lot, per the CC&Rs. Therefore' I am not giving them copies of these driver's license for the other two autos. I just sent them the copy of my driver's license, so' I will inform you all of the outcome. I state in the email that the permit is for parking in the community common parking area. And the PM do not need anymore info.




In bold is what threw me off. I'm guessing he means the driver's licenses of the people who drive those cars.

Thanks
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/26/2017 8:28 AM  
Subject: COPY of State of Georgia Driver's License
Sorry' if confused anyone. The PM/HOA wants copy of everybody's GA Driver's License, for issuing one permit. They stated they want to validate everyone's. They stated that they want a copy of everybody's GA Driver's license. I have given them a copy of mine Ga Driver's License but the copy I gave to the PM (Property Management) I blocked out the driver's license numbers, date of birth, height, weight, eye color and driver's license expectation date. The PM said no, she want to be able to see all of the information on the driver's license for everybody. By the way' I am hiring a lawyer that have delt with HOA/PM. I did tell the PM that I am willing to show them the driver's license of my wife and son. Again I was told no, I was told to give them copies of everybody's driver's licenses with the information visible. Then I will be issued a parking permit.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


05/26/2017 8:36 AM  
Consulting an attorney is exactly what I would do in this case. Take all your governing documents with you. If it were me, I'd tell the president that I'm going to a attorney and invite her to tag along. (in writing).
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


05/26/2017 8:45 AM  
The copy of Ga Driver's License I gave to the PM for my wife and son. I blocked out the information on their Ga Driver's license ; I did not block out the information on my Ga Driver's License.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


05/26/2017 8:49 AM  
Sounds like invasion of privacy to me.
HenryH
(Georgia)

Posts:11


09/13/2017 2:16 PM  
Hello'
Everybody will' I had the meeting with my HOA Board. We discussed the matter concerning the parking permit, I did have a lawyer present. The HOA Board stated "That's the way we have always done it." The HOA lawyer stated "If you do not want to did it their way, you can park you vehicle some where else off the property". The HOA Board president stated "This is a hearing, we are only here to hear what you have to say". At the end of the meeting the HOA President said they will vote and inform me of the outcome. That was two months ago! I nor my lawyer have not heard from the HOA. And I figured that I will just leave it at that. So' that is the latest update at this time.
DouglasM6
(Arizona)

Posts:438


09/13/2017 3:39 PM  
So the Board said ___________.
The HOA lawyer said __________.
The President said ___________.

What did your lawyer say?
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:307


09/13/2017 9:50 PM  
Posted By HenryH on 05/23/2017 12:40 PM
I told the property manager I am willing to show it to them, dhe said that is not sufficient




I could see them wanting a copy of your vehicle registration to have it on file to prevent your car from being towed. That information is not on your drovers license, and the HOA IMHO does not have the right to have that information.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:307


09/13/2017 9:52 PM  
Posted By HenryH on 09/13/2017 2:16 PM
Hello'
Everybody will' I had the meeting with my HOA Board. We discussed the matter concerning the parking permit, I did have a lawyer present. The HOA Board stated "That's the way we have always done it." The HOA lawyer stated "If you do not want to did it their way, you can park you vehicle some where else off the property". The HOA Board president stated "This is a hearing, we are only here to hear what you have to say". At the end of the meeting the HOA President said they will vote and inform me of the outcome. That was two months ago! I nor my lawyer have not heard from the HOA. And I figured that I will just leave it at that. So' that is the latest update at this time.




If you do not hear anything tomorrow, have your attorney hit them with a 15 day demand response letter.
GeorgeR8
(Arizona)

Posts:138


09/14/2017 4:40 AM  
Posted By GwenG on 05/23/2017 1:23 PM
PITA does it again! HE is exactly right. The HOA/Condo has no right to driver license information. It states a date of birth and the information there can be used for identify theft. I have been victim of identity theft. It is unknown how my info was "thieved" but you can believe I am much more mindful of sharing personal identification information with anyone just because they ask.

My HOA is required to re-certify its Over 55 status every two years and asks everyone for copies of the Driver License or birth certificate. I say "No".

Even if the Covenants attempted to force me to disclose my personal information, I would disregard what the Covenants say about it. I would rather deal with the HOA than deal with the hell that the IRS and banks put me through when my SS# was filed on and credit was opened in my name.





For those not in a 55+ I would like to mention that age verification every 2 years is a Federal Law.

When I do age verification it is on the same form as emergency contact info. We do require date of birth for every person in the home. I don't want copies of anything. The drivers license or birth certificate must be shown at closing. I don't remember if the title attorney makes a copy or not.

It's nothing to get up in arms about. The form goes into the files and isn't gotten out unless we find you dead. That is why we put it on the emergency contact form. The police/ambulance/fire always seem to ask how old they are. It is also needed if we have to put out a silver alert when they go missing or if we have to call adult protective services.

PainintheA


Posts:0


09/14/2017 5:22 AM  
For those not in a 55+ I would like to mention that age verification every 2 years is a Federal Law.


Not quite correct.

It is a HUD requirement.

however

One is allowed to 'self certify' w/o producing any 'proof' by simply making a written SIGNED statement of one's age.

Wanna bet ?


from HUD:

Questions and Answers
Concerning the Final Rule Implementing
the Housing for Older Persons Act of 1995 (HOPA)


Question 9
Is there any other documentation that would be considered reliable for age
verification?
Answer
Yes. A self certification in a lease, application affidavit, or other document
signed by an adult member of the household asserting that at least one occupant
in the unit is 55 years of age or older will satisfy this requirement.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:894


09/14/2017 6:57 AM  
Posted By PainintheA on 09/14/2017 5:22 AM

One is allowed to 'self certify' w/o producing any 'proof'


Works for most senior discounts too.
GwenG
(Florida)

Posts:552


09/14/2017 8:13 AM  
Florida is very lenient about the age certification. It accepts pretty much whatever it is given. HOA often is paranoid and thinks the HUD police will come after them unless they collect age data every two years. HUD will be in touch if they don't like your recertification method.

In my experience, the main problem is potentially when an HOA is REPORTED as providing certification on OWNERS rather than OCCUPANTS. Two very different things. HUD requires certification of OCCUPANTS. In many older communities, that can mean TENANTS.

In another instance, owners challenged the age requirement as not being in the Covenants and there is FL case law ruling against the HOA and requiring them to market as a "family community". HOA's should be mindful of ALL the requirements of HUD for qualification as "over 55+".
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3642


09/14/2017 8:39 PM  
Posted By HenryH on 09/13/2017 2:16 PM
Hello'
Everybody will' I had the meeting with my HOA Board. We discussed the matter concerning the parking permit, I did have a lawyer present. The HOA Board stated "That's the way we have always done it." The HOA lawyer stated "If you do not want to did it their way, you can park you vehicle some where else off the property". The HOA Board president stated "This is a hearing, we are only here to hear what you have to say". At the end of the meeting the HOA President said they will vote and inform me of the outcome. That was two months ago! I nor my lawyer have not heard from the HOA. And I figured that I will just leave it at that. So' that is the latest update at this time.


Thank you for the update ... LOL ... This situation is beyond stupid!!! There is ZERO reason the HOA should have access to an individuals "Driver's License". All they need to know is potentially whether a vehicle is properly "registered" and which can be obtained via looking at the license plate tags! If your HOA is obtaining copies of "Drivers Licenses" are they being properly filed and cared for??? In many states companies who have CDL Drivers and require this type information MUST have separate files for these copies in Locked File Cabinets and kept separate from HR files. So ... is the HOA keeping these copies in separate Locked File Cabinets separate from other HOA files???
CarlJ2
(Texas)

Posts:165


09/15/2017 5:43 AM  
There is so much PII on Driver's Licenses I'd be skeptical too. At the least there are privacy laws to be complied with.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > HOA Copy of Driver's License



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement