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Subject: Street parking
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Author Messages
JillS8
(California)

Posts:33


04/19/2017 8:05 PM  
Question,
Our CC&Rs under Restrictions have a Vehicle section that says ..
A reasonable number of trucks , trailers, boats, recreational vehicles, and inoperable vehicles may be STORED within the project if kept behind a fence or in the garage.

There is no mention of parking in driveways, streets or any parking restrictions. We also have single family houses with no assigned parking or parking stalls. My question is the board made a rule that says no parking on streets between 2 and 5 am. Can this rule be enforced ? In California we have Davis Sterling Act that says rules can't be more restrictive than the CCRS. Since there is no mention of parking restrictions can the board enforce a no parking rule? Seems unreasonable to me.
Any suggestions would be appreciated
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3427


04/19/2017 10:09 PM  
Are your streets owned by local government or the HOA?

If the HOA owns and maintains the streets then you are bound by the rules and regulations.

If the streets are "public" streets then in some states they allow the HOA to regulate while others such as (NV) Do Not allow the HOA to regulate public streets. I would recommend you ask your local government agency if the streets are "public" If the HOA can regulate. If they state yes ... ask them what State Statute or Local Ordinance states such fact ... LOL, bet they cannot provide.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2032


04/19/2017 10:19 PM  
Two things would have to happen. One, the CCRs must give the Board the authority to create parking rules or restrictions. Second, and more importantly, the rules have to be "fair and reasonable". Is there an issue that would make the Board create a rule prohibiting parking between 2 am and 5 am?
JillS8
(California)

Posts:33


04/20/2017 6:32 AM  
Our streets are private and gated. The reason I was given for no street parking between 2:00 and 5:00 am is because " I don't want cars parked in front of my house."
There are no city restrictions on street parking, only storing wehicles for 96 hours. We have wide streets so there's no issue there. A homeowner has a lot of cars because they have a large extended family living at the home. Large 6 bedroom homes with small house in backyard so obviously there is going to be a lot of cars. Our CCRS under use restrictions have no references to parking in driveways or streets. Asking a family to park outside our community to me seems totally unreasonable and unenforceable. there are no limit of vehicles anywhere in our docs. The board wants to tow theses vehicles from streets and driveways. As a board member, I think these families have a right to enjoyment and would be burdened to park outside our community. It seems the law is clear and rules and regulations cannot be more restrictive than the CCRS and there is clearly zero parking restrictions. Trying to find a reasonable resolution.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2032


04/20/2017 9:21 AM  
" I don't want cars parked in front of my house."

That in itself take care of the issue. The Rule is not Fair and not Reasonable. It does not meet the standards of creating rules. There is case law that would defeat what the Board has done.

The street and or area in front of your house IS NOT the individual owner, it is part of the common area that EVERYONE should be able to enjoy.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:868


04/20/2017 9:36 AM  
Posted By JillS8 on 04/20/2017 6:32 AM
Our CCRS under use restrictions have no references to parking in driveways or streets. The board wants to tow theses vehicles from streets and driveways.


Your first post suggest that the overnight parking rule is for streets, this post adds "and driveways". Can you clarify if driveways are included in the parking restriction? If they are on the homeowner's private property, towing from driveways seems like a recipe for disaster.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:6879


04/20/2017 10:27 AM  
Posted By DouglasK1 on 04/20/2017 9:36 AM
Posted By JillS8 on 04/20/2017 6:32 AM
Our CCRS under use restrictions have no references to parking in driveways or streets. The board wants to tow theses vehicles from streets and driveways.


Your first post suggest that the overnight parking rule is for streets, this post adds "and driveways". Can you clarify if driveways are included in the parking restriction? If they are on the homeowner's private property, towing from driveways seems like a recipe for disaster.




Good question.
JillS8
(California)

Posts:33


04/20/2017 5:47 PM  
As of now the rules say "no street parking between 2 and 5 am. (Rule)

CCRS say....
A reasonable number of boats, trailers, motor homes , recreational vehicles, trucks, commercial vehicles, campers, boats and inoperable vehicles belonging to an owner belonging to an owner may be stored within the prject if kept within a fenced yard or within a accessory building constructed upon the lot.

That's the only parking reference. The board also sent a draft that added. The word " automobiles" to that wording , I challenged that word as it also makes more restrictions.

So bottom line question is if no parking restrictions are in CCR section under restrictions, can the board make restrictions for no reason other than a home has what they think is too many cars, or the board not wanting any cars parked in front of their house.

I'm pretty sure the law is clear just like my ducks in a row.
Thank
JillS8
(California)

Posts:33


04/20/2017 6:16 PM  
Yes reasons no is that they don't want cars in front of their house. And no I'm not kidding.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:6879


04/20/2017 6:17 PM  
Jill

Do not confuse Covenants/Bylaws with Rules and Regulations (R&Rs), nor with local laws. Covenants/Bylaws and R&R's can be tougher/more restrictive than laws as owners agreed to them. Quite common for local laws to allow overnight parking but for an association to ban such. In such a case, the association usually wins especially when "they own" the streets.

R&Rs cannot override Covenants/Bylaws. Many associations try this approach.

Adding a 2am to 5am street parking ban via R&Rs is probably not legal. Owners voting for such a Covenant change would probably be legal.



RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2032


04/20/2017 6:32 PM  
IMO, and based on experience, the Board cannot create a rule as they did. They would need to amend the CCRs allowing them the authority to create those specific rules.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3427


04/21/2017 11:05 AM  
Posted By JillS8 on 04/20/2017 6:32 AM
Our streets are private and gated. The reason I was given for no street parking between 2:00 and 5:00 am is because " I don't want cars parked in front of my house."


If your streets are private and gated, then yes can be reasonably regulated. Those streets are in essence "private property" owned by the HOA vs. "public property" owned by the local government.

Here is some info from Davis Stirling:

http://www.davis-stirling.com/Main-Index/Traffic-Violations

RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2032


04/21/2017 11:36 AM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 04/21/2017 11:05 AM
Posted By JillS8 on 04/20/2017 6:32 AM
Our streets are private and gated. The reason I was given for no street parking between 2:00 and 5:00 am is because " I don't want cars parked in front of my house."


If your streets are private and gated, then yes can be reasonably regulated. Those streets are in essence "private property" owned by the HOA vs. "public property" owned by the local government.

Here is some info from Davis Stirling:

http://www.davis-stirling.com/Main-Index/Traffic-Violations




The can regulate only IF given the authority in the CCRs. I have been down this road in California. Presently, there is a $20M lawsuit against my former HOA because we were not allowed to regulate our private streets.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3427


04/21/2017 12:25 PM  
Thank you Richard ... good info for CA owners to know. Do you have a link for the statute your old HOA violated? It might help the OP to understand what his documents need to state.
JillS8
(California)

Posts:33


04/21/2017 12:30 PM  
Thank you for the info. I am clear that rules can't be more restrictive than the ccrs, which these rules would be. No parking restrictions in ccrs means no parking rules just for the sake of not wanting parked cars on the street.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2032


04/21/2017 4:18 PM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 04/21/2017 12:25 PM
Thank you Richard ... good info for CA owners to know. Do you have a link for the statute your old HOA violated? It might help the OP to understand what his documents need to state.



I didn't say anything about my old HOA violating anything. I said there was a $20M lawsuit because the city where the HOA is located wouldn't enforce any speed limits placed on the street because the judges said they were private streets. In this instance, someone fractured their hip while riding a bike and blowing through stop signs. Six months prior two kids were killed doing 100 MPH and blowing through the same stop signs. To slow traffic, we installed speed bumps. Now the city wants them removed, even though they don't own the street nor will they enforce speed limits.

In our case, the CCRs gave the Association the authority to create rules regulating parking and speed limits. An association can create parking rules only if the CCRs give them the authority. In the OP post, she doesn't make any reference to the Association having the authority to regulate parking. IF silent and they want parking rules, first get it into the CCRs.

As the OP posted, they don't want cars parked in font of their houses. Sorry, that space is shared equally among ALL homeowners, as it is common area.

This is based on my experience within the HOA legal field.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:3427


04/22/2017 12:11 AM  
Sorry ... my question is actually what are they trying to claim as the statute or law violation? Because the HOA owns the streets as "private property" and CCR's gave them authority to regulate, I am curious what the city is trying to file under?

On one side I am against HOA's who do not own property (such as streets) regulating and fining; however, on the other side it also is not right for government entities to regulate private property in some instances. To me it should be somewhat he who has liability has right to regulate, and when streets are private that usually or can be the HOA owners.
JillS8
(California)

Posts:33


04/22/2017 6:40 AM  
In my case, the streets are private and common area but the developer, 15 years ago, did not add any parking restrictions or add language in the CCRS that gave them authority to do so. I understand the board has the authority to make rules and enforce them. According to the laws in California, the rules can't be more restrictive.
This has actually been going on for over 10 years when the board put a rule in saying no street parking from 2 to 5 am on the streets. I was on the board then and gave all this information then and was just ignored then. At the time I shared the law stating this then too and said there were not even no parking signs up and there still are not but that's another issue. The rules were added to our rules but never enforced. Now the board feels they want to tow vehicles parked on the street. I am again on the board and I am trying to save them from a legal battle, which there will be from homeowners. We are a small community of single family homes with at least 5 bedrooms and many homes have casitas or granny flats so there are a lot of people living in some houses. We have to be reasonable and find a solution for these homeowners.
RichardP13
(California)

Posts:2032


04/22/2017 8:47 AM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 04/22/2017 12:11 AM
Sorry ... my question is actually what are they trying to claim as the statute or law violation? Because the HOA owns the streets as "private property" and CCR's gave them authority to regulate, I am curious what the city is trying to file under?

On one side I am against HOA's who do not own property (such as streets) regulating and fining; however, on the other side it also is not right for government entities to regulate private property in some instances. To me it should be somewhat he who has liability has right to regulate, and when streets are private that usually or can be the HOA owners.



They didn't violate anything. Unlike the OP, we had authority written into the CCRs to create parking rules and speed rules.
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