Working with Legislators

I personally know my State Senator as he is the law partner of my lawyer. I do not see him that often and when I do see him, it is usually at a social event so I do not discuss politics. I do keep an eye on the bills in committee and when I see any movement, I write him a letter basically saying there is enough protection and another costly bureaucratic layer is not needed. I will also send a copy of the letter to those on the appropriate committees.

SC has a Horizontal Property Act that covers high rise condos. There is no act covering other type HOA's (townhomes, multi-plex, standalone homes, etc.). There are bills pending but so far none have gotten out of committee. I for one work to keep them dead as I believe there are enough laws, rules, regulations, etc. that another layer is not required.

In reality I see no major issue with the bills as they are very simple, feel good type bills which is typical for most SC politicians. The majority of complaints in SC HOA's concern developer/declarant control. The complaints die off when owners get control.

S 0819 General Bill, By Jackson
Summary: Homeowners' Association Act
A BILL TO AMEND THE CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, BY ADDING CHAPTER 52 TO TITLE 27 SO AS TO ENACT THE "SOUTH CAROLINA HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION ACT".
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12/10/13 Senate Prefiled
12/10/13 Senate Referred to Committee on Judiciary
01/14/14 Senate Introduced and read first time (Senate Journal-page 34)
01/14/14 Senate Referred to Committee on Judiciary (Senate Journal-page 34)
03/03/14 Senate Referred to Subcommittee: Malloy (ch), S.Martin, Thurmond

H 3248 General Bill, By Ryhal, Hardwick, Long, M.S. McLeod, Felder and Hardee
Summary: Homeowners Associations
A BILL TO AMEND THE CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, BY ADDING CHAPTER 28 TO TITLE 27 SO AS TO PROVIDE REQUIREMENTS CONCERNING THE GOVERNANCE OF HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS, TO DEFINE NECESSARY TERMINOLOGY, TO PROVIDE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS MUST REGISTER WITH THE REAL ESTATE COMMISSION AND FILE COPIES OF ITS GOVERNING DOCUMENTS WITH THE CLERK OF COURT, REGISTER OF DEEDS, AND THE COMMISSION, TO PROVIDE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS OTHERWISE ALSO MUST MAKE ITS GOVERNING DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AND PROSPECTIVE BUYERS IN A CERTAIN MANNER, TO PROVIDE MECHANISMS FOR THE AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF CONTROL OF PROPERTY GOVERNED BY A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION FROM THE DECLARANT TO AN ELECTED BOARD OF THE HOMEOWNERS, TO PROVIDE RELATED NOTICE REQUIREMENTS, TO PROVIDE TRAINING REQUIREMENTS FOR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION BOARD MEMBERS, TO PROVIDE HOMEOWNERS MAY INSPECT CERTAIN ASSOCIATION DOCUMENTS, TO PROVIDE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS MUST PROVIDE CERTAIN NOTICE FOR BOARD MEETINGS, TO PROVIDE THAT HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS MAY NOT PLACE A LIEN AGAINST THE PROPERTY OF A HOMEOWNER OR OTHERWISE FINE OR ASSESS COSTS AGAINST A HOMEOWNER WITHOUT FIRST GIVING THE HOMEOWNER A HEARING BEFORE THE BOARD, AND TO PROVIDE HOMEOWNERS OR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS MAY SEEK FROM MAGISTRATES COURT EQUITABLE RELIEF TO ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER, AND TO PROVIDE THAT THE PREVAILING PARTY IN SUCH AN ACTION MAY RECOVER REASONABLE ATTORNEY'S FEES AND RELATED COSTS; AND BY ADDING SECTION 40-57-63 SO AS TO IMPOSE RELATED POWERS AND DUTIES ON THE REAL ESTATE COMMISSION, AND TO DEFINE NECESSARY TERMINOLOGY.
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12/18/14 House Prefiled
12/18/14 House Referred to Committee on Judiciary
12/22/14 Scrivener's error corrected
01/13/15 House Introduced and read first time (House Journal-page 168)
01/13/15 House Referred to Committee on Judiciary (House Journal-page 168)
01/15/15 House Member(s) request name added as sponsor: Felder
03/17/15 House Member(s) request name added as sponsor: Hardee
04/22/15 House Recalled from Committee on Judiciary (House Journal-page 40)
04/28/15 House Amended (House Journal-page 64)
04/28/15 House Read second time (House Journal-page 64)
04/28/15 House Roll call Yeas-88 Nays-14 (House Journal-page 66)
04/29/15 House Read third time and sent to Senate (House Journal-page 13)
04/29/15 Senate Introduced and read first time (Senate Journal-page 9)
04/29/15 Senate Referred to Committee on Judiciary (Senate Journal-page 9)
05/01/15 Senate Referred to Subcommittee: Rankin (ch), Coleman, Hembree, Johnson, Thurmond

That is not always the case Melissa. When I made my presentation to the Legislators, only half lived in HOA's. The half who did not wanted no part of them, and for the most part were representatives from outside city limits. One representative was so tired of hearing HOA horror stories (and many people from HOA's were making presentations) that she was going to speak with developers to see if they would build communities without HOA involvement. She and I are in direct communication. I also copy one of the state community manager overseers (Not CAI) for lack of a better word making suggestions. My attorney's know I will continue to be a HO advocate to bring HOA's into compliance.

My first involvement with the State was in Feb 2015. I was only allowed 2 minutes to speak. I arrived at 8am when the committee met. I was the last to speak at 5pm and heard all the stories. None of us in attendance believed that any HO was exaggerating. Only one man, who had horrendous treatment was addressed with questions and allowed to answer. He managed to get about 45 minutes of the Legislators time. My situation is such that one Senator forwarded my story to the Attorney General (in June). I have not heard back from the AG and expect this is not something they deal with. There is no doubt that if I decided to tell my story again, here, as I did honestly a few yrs back, that I would be attacked by everyone on this website. Then when I get angry and start to fire back at you, Tim and likely others, bring me to the attention of the moderator and I'm banned. So I come back as someone else to hear stories that are or are not consistent with mine. I believe the HOA's attorney tried to correct my boards bad behavior. You could tell with some of the ways that she phrased things in her letters to my attorney. Then you could see her exhaustion when she gave up. Now the suit has been turned over to an attorney chosen by the insurance company. He seems to be extraordinarily weak from the feedback I'm getting. There's nothing flattering about him on the internet. He's jumped from one law firm to another. I'm glad he's their choice.

The answers I read from people like Tim, the Jon's or John's and particularly Melissa cause me to press on. You all have a one track mind, which is "the board is right, the HO is wrong!" HOs don't know where to turn for help, and when I asked for help here, I was appalled a how I was treated. I would have preferred help from anyone outside the regulars who post. Really, you are all too angry with the exception of Tim who leaves the impression he's above it all.

Below is my presentation to the State Legislators. Contrary to the abuse and incorrect accusations I rec'd on this website, I am working hard (along with spending a lot of money) to get this corrected. I am suing bc I want to bring to the courts attention how difficult it is to get information from the board when they don't want to release it. I want HOA's to be fined ... very little for the first violation and then serious fines later, when they fail to comply with governing documents, and I want Insurers to keep and maintain the names and SSN's of any board members who have been sued (when found responsible) from ever being insured in the future. I want to keep bad board members off HOA boards. This might wake up an apathetic community. I have such a strong well documented case (with lovely community HOs supporting me and writing the board) that I aim to see this all the way through. If this case does not go to court, it will be bc they decided to settle. When my attorney's asked me what I wanted most in this case, I said to see the board on the stand, to force them to follow the governing documents and then last to recover my legal expenses. It may make the local papers, or not. I have one reporter who's followed this for yrs, but has not involved himself YET at my request. So far, the listings are still selling here, but I expect anyone who will need a mortgage will be denied and the sale will crater, until such time as the suit is settled.

Thank you Mr. Chairman and members for allowing me the opportunity to address my State Legislators. For the record, I am XXX , from XXX HOA in XXX. I have never had a CC&R violation. My dues are paid timely.
When I purchased my home in 2XXX, I knew I would need to comply with governing HOA documents. I believed everyone would need to comply with these documents, and it would make our development a better place to live. What I did not know when I bought my property but soon learned the hard way is that an HOA Board of Directors does not have to promptly respond to a request for architectural approval, it is not penalized for failing to provide information a HO is entitled to under state law, it cannot be required to provide the information a HO is entitled to unless they hire an attorney to demand the information and file a lawsuit, and that members of an HOA Board of Directors or Committee can enforce CC&Rs and other restrictions against certain homeowners, but refuse to enforce such restrictions against themselves or their friends.

Although state law allows a HO to attend Board and Committee meetings, nothing allows a HO to respond at these meetings if a HO is publicly accused – and improperly accused – of doing something improper. A HO is not provided an opportunity to defend themselves or set the record straight, and they have no recourse against a Board Member who chooses to circulate the information about an HOA dispute with other homeowners of the Association who are not involved with any business the HO may have with the Board or Committee.

My recommendations! Any Board of Director must go thru a certification process paid for by the HOA. A HO’s privacy must be protected with a path for recourse. BODs cannot use their position to extract personal revenge. Whether or not a Board agrees with the current CC&Rs & ByLaws they enforce them as written, not selectively. Recourse is imperative when a HO is not allowed access to HOA documents, and should a HO need to hire an attorney to access said documents, the HOA needs to shoulder the responsibility to reimburse. An HOA management company needs to withhold services when they know a HOA is not compliant. I have serious questions about the CAI and believe its motivation and practices should be reviewed. In every HOA in America, HOs are being trained to be submissive observers, to shut up and submit to a totalitarian micro-gov’t. HOA’s are a breeding ground for czars. Thank you.

I agree with you Geno. It's why I am suing and it's why this may make at the very least local headlines and put some pressure on the Legislators. I almost hope they don't settle, as it will be a lost opportunity to make serious corrections to a bad HO scheme.

PamM6 (Michigan) :

By any chance are you subject to (Michigan's) Act 137 of 1929 : “The Michigan Summer Resort Owners Act” aka “INCORPORATION OF SUMMER RESORT OWNERS : Act 137 of 1929”
http://micondolaw.com/michigan-summer-resort-law/the-michigan-summer-resort-owners-act/

( which appears to even empower authority to appoint an armed Marshal. PLUS many obligations similar to municipal ) ?

The forum actually discussed this in the past. I wish I could find the thread.
I don't have an issue with education, but there are other issues that arise if such a suggestion is implemented:

Will the Association also pay for the Director's use of leave or loss of pay from their work to go through said certification?

Will being certified result in loss of protection volunteers currently have under the law?

Must they become certified prior to serving or while serving?

What would be covered in the certification process?

Will such a requirement lessen the pool of volunteers because they are willing to offer time to serve but not the additional time to become certified?


I agree. However, I also think that this already exists with current privacy laws and the court system.


Agreed.

However, proving that said position was used for this vs. enforcement of actual violations, etc. may be difficult.


That is what they are supposed to do.
Keep in mind, choosing not to enforce a specific covenant on anyone is not the same as selective enforcement.

From my experience, Boards who appear to be selectively enforcing are not really intending to do so (though there are boards that do). A volunteer is only willing to donate x amount of time. The day to day activities of a working Association takes a lot of time. Enforcement actions take more time. If there are a limited number of volunteers, some Board will only perform enforcement actions on things brought to their attention (vs. looking for violations throughout the development). This is because there is only so much time a volunteer is willing to give.


Define Recourse? Legal action (it's currently available), Gather support and through the bums out (it's currently available).

However, I agree that members should always have access to documents that the law allows them to see. In my Assocaition, these are posted on the Associations website.


I agree and disagree with this. It would depend on the specific circumstances.


Sorry. I disagree.

The MC, like the HOA, are tied to the terms of the contract.

The MC is not an attorney and (as we found out in FL) MC may not make that determination without risking practicing law without a license.


I too have serious concerns about CAI and don't support many of their actions.
This is why I don't support CAI and am not, nor ever have been, a member of CAI.
However, I will defend their right to do what they think is best even if I don't agree with it.
This is what the US was founded on.

However, the Government has minimal say in how any organization chooses to run things. That is up to the members themselves. Once the government has entered into any organization to tell how things are to be ran, it applies to all organizations. Do you want the government in your Church? How about in your PTA or local card club?


Completely disagree. Homeowners are not be trained to act that way. They are choosing to.

The apathetic portion of my Associations membership has enough votes to control the Association and rewrite the governing documents with zero say on by those who are currently active within the Association. However, they can't even be bothered enough to show up at a meeting to vote or simply sign a proxy to allow someone else to vote on their behalf.

I agree that when asked it's important to express an opinion.

I'm just pointing out the potential issues associated with your solutions to the issues you see and expressed in your opinion. Simply trying to show other perspectives so better solutions may be thought of that can have the desired result but minimize the associated issues that such a result could bring.

Well said.

First, let me say I work on a legislative committee and an education committee for the CAI chapter in which I reside. I pay annual dues to CAI and part of the dues goes to CLAC (California Legislative Action Committee) of which I am know a big fan of and which I didn't have to pay dues there, but have no choice.

CLAC is a pretty powerful lobbyist. California has over 50,000 HOA or Condo associations with 14.3 million people (or 38% of the population) living in these associations, with the number to continue to grow.

I am not a big fan of government regulations, but this is one that cries for it. How many times have people come onto this site and stated the language of their CCRs and we come away scratching our heads. Who wrote these CCRs we can't begin to understand, lawyers did. If they wrote something we could understand and grasp, what need would we have of them afterwards?

In California, our associations are governed by the Davis-Stirling Act (a sub section of Civil Code) and Corporation code. All associations, whether Condo, PUD, townhomes) have to abide by those rules. The formation of the Davis-Stirling Act came about in 1985, through some VERY interesting circumstances. It was actually written by an attorney who happened to be the President of one of the largest HOAs in the United States at the time. 95% of my heart believes this was good legislation. Subsequent legislation by legislators have been written by "fools and their money".

From my perceptive and under current conditions I don't see any good coming out for either HOAs or homeowners. The only real winners are the lawyers.

I really believe in the concept of HOA's. We expect the employees of a management firm to be certified and experts, yet nothing for the volunteer Board members. For example, we could expect a HOA to require that their manager be certified all the way up to a PCAM, yet no requirements for an HOA that wants to be self-managed.

I was reading an article from our Department of Real Estate and they suggested that management company be paid $45.00 per door for their services. We are out here killing each other for $8.50 per door. In 10 years, we may be paying them for the privilege of walking on their property, LOL.

But, at the end of the day (what a terrible cliche) I have high hopes for this industry.

May I add there is NO such thing as a HOA Industry???? Seriously that term is not real. Am industry is like food, clothing, finance, or medical etc... It is something one can pursue a degree or a professional carreer in. No one goes to school to be a HOA member. They just buy property. The PM, lawyer, or realtor may be in an industry on their own accord. The CAI does not count as an industry but a lobby group...

Actually, that term is becoming real.

Although you are correct that Industry is defined as "the process of making products by using machinery and factories" it also has other definitions.

Per Merriam-Webster, industry is "a group of businesses that provide a particular product or service"

There can be no doubt that there are a group of businesses that provide services to running an Association. Be it the MC, PM, Attorney, Political action groups, software developers targeted to Associations, etc., they are all geared to the running of Associations. Add to that the legislation in many States creating license requirements for MC/PMs.

Therefore, an HOA Industry would be a correct term even if an Association doesn't utilize the services offered by said industry.

Of course, this same reasoning can say that their is a PTA industry, Scouting Industry, etc.

In my opinion, Scouting is very much an industry.

Melissa,

EXACTLY when did I ever make a statement about lawyers. I said lawyers write the governing docs and no one, including other lawyers can fully interpret what they wrote, and legislators are even worse.

Comparing HOA's to the Girl Scouts? Are you out of your flipping mind? When was the last time the Girl Scouts fined you for not putting your trash cans behind your fence? When was the last time your Girl Scouts fined you $450.00 for letting your pet walk 10 feet from the elevator to the front door. When was the last time your Girl Scouts. liened your house or even foreclosed on it.

An HOA EARLY on might have been a sales tool, but not any longer. Cities and Municipalities are now mandating that any new home construction be done as some form of HOA. Why, to take away the cities responsibilities to provide some services while still collecting your property taxes. That is reality!

HOA's DON'T have to be incorporated to collect money. There are many HOA's that aren't. They still collect assessments per their CCRs and pay taxes to the Feds or States.

People say a buyer is responsible for know exactly what they are getting themselves into. Is there any education for buyers. Don't see anything on the news. Occasionally, and I mean very seldom do I see anything about an HOA on TV and in many cases they only half a story. So we blame the buyers for not educating themselves, right?

As some of you might know, I came from the mortgage industry (?), not sure it's an industry in Melissa's eyes. Back around 2005, a loan program came out called a Pay Option ARM. Some called it Pick a Payment Loan. Bankers were criticized for the loan because it caused many homeowners to lose their homes due to the negative amortization and the loan resetting. Today, that loan would have an interest rate less than 3% because of the indexes they were tied to. Should we blame the homeowner for getting into something they didn't understand because the SALES PITCH was so attractive?

Prior to 2000, there were around 20 types of loan programs. From 2000-2008 there were OVER 500! Did we educate the buyers, no! We still continue to levy fines against Bank of America for actions that Countrywide may or may not have done. Different story.

CAI is a national organization, just like the Girl Scouts. It serves a specific part of the population that live in HOA's. There are almost 400,000 HOA's in country. More than 62 million people, or 1/5 the entire population of the U.S. 1.6 million sit on Boards. They lobby and do so through separate legislative entities.

You say no one goes to school to be a HOA member. Maybe they should. Maybe a class should be available at a vocational school or junior college. "You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make them drink".