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PaulW4 (Oregon)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I live in Oregon. I recently discovered that the City Planning Department and City Surveyor made an error in recording the plat of my HOA's subdivision.

25 years ago the Planning Commission approved a 16-unit subdivision.. I'll call this Subdivision A. It was approved in two phases.

Subdivision A - Phase I (consisting of 3 units). Subdivision A -Phase II (consisting of 13 units).

The error made was that the common areas are included in Subdivision A - Phase I's plat map.

When the plat was recorded for Subdivision A -Phase II, the subdivision name was changed to another name ... (lets call it) Subdivision B. By doing that Subdivision B was created as a separate and distinct subdivision unrelated to Subdivision A -Phase I.

In other words, the common area belongs to Subdivision A NOT to Subdivision B.

The problem is that Subdivision B has been for the past 25 years paying to improve and maintain the common area owned by Subdivision A. Subdivision A has not been paying anything to maintain their common areas!

This is a total mess. The City legally has no obligation to correct things as the statute of limitations has run out. They are unwilling to give any assistance.

So far no one in the HOA is willing to contact an attorney to resolve this problem.

My main question is ..."Does the City have the right to require Subdivision B to continue to pay for maintenance of the common areas that we do not own?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Paul,

That is a legal question that needs to be asked of an attorney.

I suspect that the City has the right to require payment based on the recorded documents until such documents are changed or challenged and changed by a court of law.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulW4 on 12/18/2014 4:11 PM

My main question is ..."Does the City have the right to require Subdivision B to continue to pay for maintenance of the common areas that we do not own?


Paul,

I know Oregon is screwy in many ways (can't pump your own gas, for example) but I am confused by your question.

Common areas in an HOA are normally private property owned by the association. The association levies assessments to cover the costs of its operations, including maintaining the common areas. How does your city get involved with maintaining private property and forcing the subdivision residents to pay?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
could be a special tax district.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
could be RE taxes on the common area.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
My question would be same as LarryB13 ... Why is city involved in HOA? As a general rule the city would implement an HOA for the subdivision so they do not have to monitor. The city in essence puts future regulations on the homeowners who must meet or exceed the city ordinances.

If your HOA does not own the property and it is not attached to your property titles. Then I would contend you are not responsible for maintaining. I am not an attorney and that is only my personal opinion.
PaulW4 (Oregon)
Posts: 3
Posted:
The City Director of Planning sent a letter to to all homeowners of Subdivision A and B stating that due to numerous recent enquiries about the common area he wanted to clarify that the City had only approved one subdivision and not two separate subdivisions and all 16 units should share in the maintenance of the common areas. Subsequently the County (the level where legal documents are recorded) stated that there were two subdivisions recorded not one.

To muddy the waters further, neither HOA is registered with the State. There is no elected Board, no Bylaws,no annual meetings, and no accountability for the funds that are collected by self appointed individuals to maintain the common areas. My wife and I were not aware of any of this when we purchased our home. Everything looked fine then. It was only recently when my neighbor privatised one of the common areas and made it her fenced in backyard (she's in Subdivision A) that any of this surfaced.

The deeds, CC and R's,and recorded plat for Subdivision B do not reference the common areas of Subdivision A.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Paul,

I think you and your neighbors are the victims of an ignorant developer and a negligent city who allowed this to happen.

There are many solutions but the simplest one would be to amend both sets of CC&R's so that you end up with one set that covers maintaining the common areas. This assumes that there is a provision in both CC&R's to amend them and that enough owners will agree to an amendment. This will not change the recorded plats but without seeing them and the CC&R's it is not clear what action, if any, should be taken. I would suggest a consultation with a real estate attorney to remove all doubts.

Somewhere towards the other end of the scale would be to take it all to court to reform all the plats and CC&R's. This is expensive and time-consuming; you and your neighbors will pay a high price for not being able to work together.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
From reading what you have written so far, the city isn't responsible for anything that has to do with your association. You have an internal HOA issue that you must solve on your own.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulW4 on 12/18/2014 4:11 PM
I live in Oregon. I recently discovered that the City Planning Department and City Surveyor made an error in recording the plat of my HOA's subdivision.

25 years ago the Planning Commission approved a 16-unit subdivision.. I'll call this Subdivision A. It was approved in two phases.

Subdivision A - Phase I (consisting of 3 units). Subdivision A -Phase II (consisting of 13 units).

The error made was that the common areas are included in Subdivision A - Phase I's plat map.

When the plat was recorded for Subdivision A -Phase II, the subdivision name was changed to another name ... (lets call it) Subdivision B. By doing that Subdivision B was created as a separate and distinct subdivision unrelated to Subdivision A -Phase I.

In other words, the common area belongs to Subdivision A NOT to Subdivision B.

The problem is that Subdivision B has been for the past 25 years paying to improve and maintain the common area owned by Subdivision A. Subdivision A has not been paying anything to maintain their common areas!

This is a total mess. The City legally has no obligation to correct things as the statute of limitations has run out. They are unwilling to give any assistance.

So far no one in the HOA is willing to contact an attorney to resolve this problem.

My main question is ..."Does the City have the right to require Subdivision B to continue to pay for maintenance of the common areas that we do not own?

Sounds like our Community, our section doesn't have a HOA but was granted a common space by the new builder of the rest of the development after buying out all the property around our section, new developer attempted to resurrect a dysfunction ate HOA. section challenged them and the new developer had to come up with new HOA and name and exempted all lands of the original development, and once they did that they still used the community name and had to correct the deed plat of our section common area that was actually owned by the city, since our HOA was never activated or even completed being developed.

Hence that section is YOUR HOA responsibility now and forever more unless you can get them 100% voluntary join them, that is unless when started developing those new sections yaws made a new community up not a HOA Name but a Entirely different community and made a new access to it. This HOA legally has to pay for our street repairs, our sewage and street lightings. They've been trying for over a decade now to get/force us into their HOA, and the only thing they've accomplished was huge legal bills and they're getting bigger and bigger every time they try.

All they need to do is tell you show us in writings we've acknowledged were in a HOA, sure you can point to recorded deed restriction and we point at it too and at our contracts we've signed, our actually entire section on our warranty and deed states a deed restriction of where the original developer bought land off someone would be something for them to fight if one or a couple were allegedly deeded wrong.. but Never a Complete Phase, section.

3 lots just not worth the fight and cost for legal issues. 25 years and now you want to change it? Good Luck. best you can hope for is to approach them and ask them to join and provide them with legal documents their time in the HOA just started on this date. Yet chances them joining is slim to none. Who knows you might find someone looking for a HOA fight and knows how to drag it out in time and costs and they know their going into this HOA issue and knowing their going too win. That HOA here tried everything in the book and even tossed in the kitchen sink.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulW4 on 12/19/2014 7:52 AM
The City Director of Planning sent a letter to to all homeowners of Subdivision A and B stating that due to numerous recent enquiries about the common area he wanted to clarify that the City had only approved one subdivision and not two separate subdivisions and all 16 units should share in the maintenance of the common areas. Subsequently the County (the level where legal documents are recorded) stated that there were two subdivisions recorded not one.

To muddy the waters further, neither HOA is registered with the State. There is no elected Board, no Bylaws,no annual meetings, and no accountability for the funds that are collected by self appointed individuals to maintain the common areas. My wife and I were not aware of any of this when we purchased our home. Everything looked fine then. It was only recently when my neighbor privatised one of the common areas and made it her fenced in backyard (she's in Subdivision A) that any of this surfaced.

The deeds, CC and R's,and recorded plat for Subdivision B do not reference the common areas of Subdivision A.

Sounds like a typical hit and build developer and just made a deed restriction recordings to keep inferior houses out of it till he was done building and never bothered actually doing a HOA. Like our HOA was the original builder had plans to broaden the development but a Big bad bully developer bought out the lands around it.

Simplest thing to do is research the common lot plat and see who's been paying the tax's for the last 25 years, don't be surprised it's now the City Property because it was abandoned by the Developer 25 years ago and now is the City Common area lands.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/18/2014 5:29 PM
Posted By PaulW4 on 12/18/2014 4:11 PM

My main question is ..."Does the City have the right to require Subdivision B to continue to pay for maintenance of the common areas that we do not own?


Paul,

I know Oregon is screwy in many ways (can't pump your own gas, for example) but I am confused by your question.

Common areas in an HOA are normally private property owned by the association. The association levies assessments to cover the costs of its operations, including maintaining the common areas. How does your city get involved with maintaining private property and forcing the subdivision residents to pay?


We'll they can force you to pay for mowing's because of the weeds heights in them if not kept.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesO6 on 12/19/2014 9:54 PM
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/18/2014 5:29 PM
Posted By PaulW4 on 12/18/2014 4:11 PM

My main question is ..."Does the City have the right to require Subdivision B to continue to pay for maintenance of the common areas that we do not own?


Paul,

I know Oregon is screwy in many ways (can't pump your own gas, for example) but I am confused by your question.

Common areas in an HOA are normally private property owned by the association. The association levies assessments to cover the costs of its operations, including maintaining the common areas. How does your city get involved with maintaining private property and forcing the subdivision residents to pay?



We'll they can force you to pay for mowing's because of the weeds heights in them if not kept.

they do that to houses all the time.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesO6 on 12/19/2014 9:55 PM

they do that to houses all the time.

James,

The issue here is under what authority does the city compel a person, such as Paul, to maintain property that he does not own?

JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/19/2014 10:06 PM
Posted By JamesO6 on 12/19/2014 9:55 PM

they do that to houses all the time.


James,

The issue here is under what authority does the city compel a person, such as Paul, to maintain property that he does not own?


I and several of my neighbors maintains our community HOA common area lot, even though were not in their HOA about under 5 acres of a open field, valued at about 1.5 mill. If you own a lot and you don't maintain your property and find out a bunch of non HOA lots owners in your community are going to seize your HOA property because after 20 years in this state you maintain it, it's yours after I believe 2 decades 20 years. even though their paying taxes on it. you can now see another point of view. bout property rights.

If say the OP is talking about a new developer in the same named community, one section without a HOA and the other/s has a HOA, some states they have to maintain the entire community even if the other sections are not in their HOA but in the same community like mine Community were in a HOA community only because the new developer created it, even though we have a recorded deed restriction.

there's one community that has 11 sections yet only 2 sections are in a HOA, when time comes for road repairs those 2 sections will have to pay for the entire 11 sections road job. Sounds unfair but HOA's are based upon a Community not sections, careful joining a HOA and your community has lots of sections that has no HOA in them. you'll be paying for their free rides, because they had city responsibility for their community roads, lights and sewage. Just becaue other sections starts a HOA, don't expect to waltz in and GO OBTW your now in our HOA.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/19/2014 10:06 PM
Posted By JamesO6 on 12/19/2014 9:55 PM

they do that to houses all the time.


James,

The issue here is under what authority does the city compel a person, such as Paul, to maintain property that he does not own?


Usually city agreements with developers for tax breaks if they finish their community in a certain time frame, now say if the developer puts that clause in a recorded deed restriction even by accident of it and say a new developer doesn't finish the development or record an entire plat of the proposed development by that stipulated time of the original plans for the HOA community. that one section or those sections under an Old developer recorded deed restrictions breaks the tax's break for the developer of the original development and their lots in it.

Say off topic the new developer missed that say 10 year dead line by just a few months only they had a agreement with the city to finish their HOA plans. Any further deployment are now under a New HOA and by some state laws have to maintain even section's that are not in a HOA but in their community.

There's so many things that can go wrong designing a HOA, some sections are exempted from them due to the silliest of things if the developers just dot their I's and cross their T's. or they just do it on purpose to mess with a new builder that bought up land around their development.

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