Statistics on Property Values

That's a tricky question. It's not so much that Rv's, boats, or other such items depreciate "property" value as much as it "distracts" buyers from purchasing the property. In those terms, that means the sell price of the house is "depreciated" cause it won't sell to anyone.
I am sure some communities Rv's, boats, or other items are NOT a violation. They may welcome such items if they are in communities that support this kind of lifestyle. In those types of communities this may attract buyers to being able to keep such items.
Property values essentially comes down to how well your property can sell at what price. It's "subjective". For example: We have a subdivision of nice affordable homes nearby. It's convenient to the city with a great school system. However, there are giant power lines running almost in the middle of the subdivision. What do you think the property values are there versus a house 2 miles down the road?
So I can't say that having Rv's, boats, or other items exactly depreciate property value. If they are a violation of the rules and those rules aren't enforced, that may effect values. No one wants to move into a neighborhood that touts it has a "HOA" and it doesn't enforce restrictions. (HOA's are a double-edged sword in that way. People want control of their community but don't like it when it controls them.)
I'd ask several realtors in your area to jot down a list of things buyers want currently. Then take that list, and compare it to what your community has to offer in order to get a better idea if your property values are appreciating or not.

Thanks for your responses Mellisa and Gloria. We are aware or the decreased marketablity of homes in such areas. Our CEO is an experienced real estate agent and we also have an appraiser. So I am very aware that property values are depreciated by the presence of recreational vehicles. What I am searching for is published statistics. Appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks.

RogerB - your inquiry is difficult if not impossible to produce any statistical verification. my search on google did produce some studies on noise and it's impact upon a home's market value. Some potential buyers may feel that an RV, boat, etc. parked in communities does detract from the aesthetic beauty of the landscape, I know I would be one. Whereas trees can boost the market value of a home by an average of 6 or 7 percent, representing $30,000 to $35,000 on a $500,000 home. Landscaping, especially with trees, and depending upon it's elaborateness, can increase property values as much as 20 percent or $100,000 on a $500,000 home. So proponents of a pastoral landscape void of over sized vehicles may say that an RV, or boat reduces their property values by a percentage of the landscape elements that increase it. Given that concept, you could develop a subjective figure for a reduction in property value based upon what raises value. In other words, over sized vehicles increase visual distractions to the landscape which, depending on the buyer, may result in a percentage reduction of a homes market value that saw an increase of 6 - 20% because of the beautiful landscaping.

I too would be interested in seeing them. We are facing an issue near where we live. There is a zoning proposal to erect 248 apartments on 13 acres near us. We wouldn't be impacted the most, but we are fearful of property values dropping, increased crime, traffic and noise. Fortunately we have gotten about 5 HOA's in the area together and are planning on attending the planning commission meeting in full force to show our disapproval. Petitions have been signed and flyers sent out. If for some reason it does pass I will be able to give you statistics on how apartment complexes affect property values because I think it will be a big effect.

Melissa:

Considering we live in a small town that is a suburb with no apartment complexes in this city I would disagree and say it will lower values. Our town is known for having great schools, good communities and homes. Apartments by nature are many people in one area which increase traffic, increase potential for crime, increase noise and overcrowd schools. All of those things are not desirable traits for a neighborhood. I agree, depending on the type of complex the values may not go down as much, but they will go down. I am thinking with 5 hoa's involved representing over 500+ homes with about 1/3 to 1/2 of those planning on attending the meeting that the city will think twice before granting this, at least we all hope.

Melissa:

Apparantly you and I view things differently. Our community will grow with the continued addition of commerce and new housing subdivisions. I am not totally against apartment complexes, I just don't think sticking it between four current subdivisions when the land was originally zoned as single family is the right thing to do. There was a new hospital just built and part of that tract of land was proposed mult-family dwellings. I disagree with the location.

Why do people rent? Rentors don't have the pride in community and city that landowners do because they don't have any invested in it. I care what happens in my city because it affects my home, its value and our way of life. If I am a rentor then I don't care because I am mobile and can move. I think a nice housing subdivision is more attractive than a big complex. That is why I decided not to live in the big city.

I also think that allowing storage or parking of these recreational vehicles will depend on the area where they are going to be stored. A boat along side a home on a canal or waterway would probably be an asset to a prospective buyer where a boat stored along side an upscale property 10 miles away from a waterway, would be a detriment. So to have a formula for bringing down property values will be hard to establish. Where do you draw a line as to an asset or a detriment for them being a property devaluer?

Me, as a non R.Vr or non boater person do not like to see them. My neighbors all are fishermen and would love to keep their boats at home so I guess this is all relevent to where the location is.

RE: the original question.

I think that the issue is whether or not there are local ordinances in effect dealing with storage and/or parking of these recreational vehicles and whether or not the laws are enforced.

On the other hand, you may lose a sale if the new owner believes he cannot park his boat on his own lot during the winter.

Very subjective . . . I doubt if you could put a dollar amount on it.

Then I suggest he run real estate comparables on properties in 2 like-communities - one that has an ordinance, and one that doesn't.

Enforced blight and recreational storage ordinances keep property values high.

as someone trying to sell a home for 11 months now, i can firmly tell you that the ONLY thing that affects property value is square footage.

It is the price per square foot of home that sells. My home, with 1/3 acre, 3 car garage, and 1800 square feet is priced higher than other homes with 0.12 acre lots, 2 car garages, and 1800 square feet. My home is five years younger. And my realtor says it will never sell until my $/sq ft is at or below the other homes, no matter their age, condition, location, etc.

So, curb appeal? No. RV's? No. Acreage, land, garage size, paint, siding, pool or not... NO. square footage baby, that's all that matters in the market now.

BrianB,

That’s a pretty BROAD analysis as to what impacts property values. I’m sure others will contest as well. My first suggestion would be to get a different realtor. Besides with the housing market (buyers market) the way it is currently living in/owning or selling a house in an HOA, COA, POA, etc certainly won’t HURT your chances, unfortunately, it just won’t be a quick sale.

Being a sales consultant for the past 12 years, I can honestly say (as foolish as it may sound) paint choice, hardware, interior/exterior appearance (basically cosmetics), RV, above ground swimming pools, lawn condition, side walks/driveways being edged and mowed, Christmas decorations in July and of course curb appeal (flowers, shrubs, fresh mulch, condition of the driveway) will all collectively play a role in the selling of your HOME.

To sell a home takes more than JUST sq. ft and acreage, there are many things that may appear to the some buyers but not others. Keep that in mind, as you are selling your home. You want your home to appeal to those interested in purchasing your house. What you like may not be what others like.

I know I can overlook all those things. However, my wife and many others can not. If the house/property doesn’t look good from the outside she isn’t going to waste her time and to be quite honest I may not either, UNLESS the price can justifies its appearance.

All I’m saying is it takes more than a realtor to sell a home.
Good luck selling your home.
I wish the best for you.

Chuck W

BrianB - How long has your home been on the market, what is your price per sq. foot?

Everyone is kind of right in this "Property Value" debate. Property value are two fold. There are "Attractive Property Value" and there is "Property Value".

"Attractive Property value" are things such as restrictions (no motorhomes, HOA control, etc...), cub-appeals, and finally, location, location, location. It's how attractive and how that property will fit into your lifestyle. A great house that feels like a "Home" will sell to almost any buyer for almost any price. The property has value based on emotion.

"Property Value" is based on price per square foot, comparible pricing in the area, and what the bank is willing to loan. Now a days, it's how much the bank is willing to loan. Which is MUCH tougher now, and is driving the price of homes down.

The "trick" of house buying is combining BOTH the Attractive Property Value with the REAL Property value of the home/property. Basically, it's your heart versus your head decision. That battle could be on the buyer's side or on the seller's. Whatever the market is in your area be it a "Buyer's market" or a "Seller's market" you will find that property values will swing and change.

If it's really a matter of the restrictions of a HOA that you think effects your Property Value, then your going to attribute that any kind of property value evaluation. A HOA doesn't necessarily make or break Property values, their purpose is to protect the value that exists in it. That value goes up and down to whatever effort the HOA are willing to put in it. A strong united HOA, gets more bang for it's buck. A HOA that's weak and hanging on by a thread, may struggle a bit in the Real estate market. If your concerned about your property values in your HOA or the one you may purchase in, then I suggest getting involved with the HOA and work with in it. In a HOA, You the Homeowner make what your property is worth.

CharlesW1, I think we all tend to generalize as you have done when you said "Besides with the housing market (buyers market) the way it is currently living in/owning or selling a house in an HOA, COA, POA, etc certainly won’t HURT your chances,"

I too have seen ads stating 'no home owners association'. More telling here in the subdivision built by the same developer, with identical models, it is the non-hoa homes that have, and continue to sell, at least for the last couple years, and for the same prices that the hoa homes are listed, which are not selling or have been taken off the market. ~114 homes, ~16 non-hoa. About 3 years ago one lakefront hoa home sold but the new owners bought for the lakefront feature. All the lakefront homes were hoa homes.

Brian, I have not heard anything on these. Could you provide a link for the info?

"WHen the media becomes saturated with stories of Colorado HOA's sueing members for grass seed violations, or HOA's attempting foreclosures for $50,000 fines/fees for light bulb violations, etc., the tar and feathers get heated up."

There are growing numbers of "NON-HOA" signs being hung with for sale signs, and in the classifieds.

I agree with Donna. People don't look past the "headlines" when it comes to HOA's. Foreclosures and/or liens don't just "happen" without notice or proven violation. The court doesn't allow that. As someone who has put liens and foreclosed on houses in a HOA, notice is given in a multitude of ways. The first of which is usually discussed in the OPEN meetings conducted by the HOA. Other notifications are: Letters by the HOA, possible phone calls, certified letters, and PUBLIC notification in the local newspaper in the LEGALS section. I am NOT even including the "neighborhood chatter" about the violating member. I don't care if your using the HOA property as rental or live there yourself, Violation notices don't get shoved under the rug by the HOA board nor the court system.

I do disagree that liens or foreclosure be based on "Fines". That is illegal in most states. Fines are "Extra's" in most cases. Proof that a cost has been incurred by the HOA to clean up that "Fining violation" situation IS a cause for a Lien or Foreclosure.

This is where it's confusing to most people when they do hear the "headlines". Let's do say that a person has too many "Pink flamingos" in their front yard. That yard is owned/controlled by the HOA. (In our HOA, the owner owned the lot the house sat on but NOT the land around that lot..ie grassy areas. ALL the owners owned a piece of that area - common area). The ARC rules state that NO Plastic characters or yard ornaments that can interfere with mowing/maintenance is allowed. Pink Flamingos are plastic characters and their placement puts the mowing equipment at risk.

The HOA gets a complaint from the lawn contractor and/or other homeowners. The HOA board then votes on it at a public meeting or private that this is a violation according to the ARC rules. They send the owner notification to REMOVE the Flamingos ASAP with the statement of the rules they violate. The owner refuses to remove the flamingos. They get angry and refuse to communicate to the HOA anymore. Ie... don't attend meetings, rip up letters, or don't accept certified letters.

The HOA may have a "fining" policy in place. The HOA may decide to put a fine on the owner until they remove the flamingos. If a HOA has a fining policy, then they can assess the owner fines. However, collection on those fines may not be legal. (Longer story). The HOA does have the power to pay someone to come in and REMOVE the flamingos. That cost of removal is PROOF of damages that can then be collected on as a "Lien". Hence, the owner can now have a lien on their property.

Essentially, the HOA has to suffer a cost damage for it to pursue lien or foreclosure options. Not paying dues is a damage and a violation of a contract. The HOA suffers damage by not having it's income (dues) and it's got legal costs to pay to collect on that loss income. So essentially, a Lien or Foreclosure is NOT a money-making proposition. It's getting back the money that is OWED to the HOA. Anyone who thinks a HOA is putting liens or foreclosing on property as a "profit-making scheme" by the HOA is SADLY mistaken.

So hold your judgement on thes "headlines" of the poor suffering owners in a HOA. The money they are suing the HOA for is their own and their neighbors. As a homeowner in a HOA, I know I wouldn't appreciate someone suing me because they violated a rule, and now don't like facing the reprecautions of their actions. Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So be careful, and pursue lightly.

DJ,
Yes, there are worlds of possibilities for not having a great system, a good system or even a so-so system. I think it is called the human animal, all full of error.

Before we get some feathers riled up here, I just pointed out that ther are always 2 sides to the story.

My Journalism teacher always said Believe HALF of what you see and NOTHING of what you read.

Interesting.

There are none here.

Not in the paper, not on for sale signs, (at least none anywhere that I've seen) and not in any online searches. In fact, it's not even an option you can input into an online search in our area for real estate.

There are plenty of older subdivisions that don't have HOAs (though more and more are creating one, even the older, inner city neighborhoods), so it's not like every home in the county falls under an HOA, but "non-HOA" is not listed as a feature in any advertising or real estate searches.

Brian,
You may well be right about all HOA's being painted with the same brush. A potential buyer does not know if they will be dealing with a "good" or a "bad" HOA until after they lay their money down. What I suspect few home buyers are aware of until after they have had a run in with an HOA. is that, the only right that they have is the right to pay the morgage and that may not stop them from suffering the loss of their home, at worst, or thousands of dollars in legal fees (and usually the legal fees of the HOA attorney) until they have had a lien placed on their house for a $50-$250 dues payment. The quickest solution discussed here in solving most problems is to place a lien or take other legal action against the homeowner. If the national trend with the real estate market continues and the press (across the country) continues to print stories about what you are terming "rogue" HOA's continue, less and less people are going to want to buy in to potential problems. A lot of people now tell realtors right off the bat, "I don't even want to look at anything in an HOA". Perhaps HOA's overall are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the right to vote, but more and more often its not being portrayed that way.

JustinW

I'm also scanning through these and a TON are saying: "we have no HOA data at this time." and mention "Your Home for sale" . . .

So, again, color me skeptical.

And I say the same thing, many are excerpting the terms, while there are many that do say No Hoa, many say No Hoa Data or other phrases of the word; some or craigslist listings, and a whole grab bag of other versions. All a page had to do was have the words "for" "sale" "HOA" and "no" in it!

Not any of it is proof in any way, shape or form that there's some massive move to promote homes in non-hoa's.

There always has been and always will be people who list that way. There are some people who don't want HOAs. However, I am still skeptical that there is some spike in demand for sales of no hoa homes and don't see how anyone can extrapolate or infer that from a Google search!

We are seeing just the opposite here. As I said, not one Real Estate listing in the paper or online locally has that as a feature.

So again, not convinced.

I mean seriously, here is a random example from that search (cut and pasted)

OREST HILLS HOA VS BENNETT'S / Cable Van Petition : [ powered by ...
Petition FOREST HILLS HOA VS BENNETT'S / Cable Van DUE TO THE OVER WHELMING RESPONSE ... I offered to put our home up for sale, but was given no response. ...

www.ipetitions.com/petition/FORESTHILLSHOA/ - 25k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
Santa Rosa California Real Estate and listings for Real Estate ...This is a newer condo style home with no Home Owners Association dues. ... You can get a deal if your lucky enough to close a short sale or even better a ...
www.rigzin.com/santa-rosa-california-real-estate.php - 45k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Atlanta Townhomes, Atlanta Townhouse, Vinings Townhomes ...
Community Contacts. E-mail HOA · E-mail - Post a Home for Sale ... In no means, is the number of units for sale a reflection on the Community. ...
www.chattahoocheebluffs.com/ - 26k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

House For Sale - NO HOA! in Culpeper, VA - HotPads.com
House - NO HOA! in Culpeper, VA on HotPads.com - Apartments, Rental Homes and Houses for Rent Location-based Search.
hotpads.com/search/viewListing.htm?listingId=gi1gt1qu3l5_Z57 - 26k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

[PDF]
Sycamore Creek Homeowners’ Association Board of Trustees Minutes ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
sale this month and five (5) units were sold. There are three units for rent. ... Sycamore Creek HOA in. Fairborn Municipal Court. No change in status from ...
www.siscom.net/~schoa/documents/Meeting%20May%206,%202003%20minutes.pdf - Similar pages - Note this

Legislators OK restrictions on HOA foreclosure powers ...
May 11, 2007 ... Restricts associations from regulating for-sale signs in yards. .... I sit on our HOA board. I have NO spare time, I do it because very few ...
www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/89466 - 60k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Roger: That's my point. A Google search is hardly definitive - it's like casting a net into the ocean and expecting to ONLY haul in one type of fish and one type of fish only. You're gonna pull in a LOT of fish. Granted some or even many may be the one you were hoping for, but there will be a lot of others as well.

I'm sure there are many people who want to buy a house that is not in an HOA (my dad is one of them). But to imply there are at least 200K+ advertising that way from a Google search is not quite a reasonable assertion.

That's all I'm saying.

OH, and one more thing before I bury this Dead Horse, let's assume that 200k+ WAS an accurate listing of people either promoting non-HOA homes or looking for non-HOA homes.

We have no barometer to assume that is either a high number or a low number, because we don't know what it was last year, or the year before, or the year before. In other words, there is no history to indicate a trend one way or the other. So, it's sort of a pointless exercise.

Okay. Shutting up on it now. . . .

To your point,

1) The in-process discussion doesn't prove that at all. It only shows, as far as I can tell, that there are no available statistics that show that RVs or campers decrease a home's value.

and

2) I would never assume to use a Google search to make such a claim anyway.

Honestly, who would?