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Subject: HOA Dog off of leash.. friendly doesn't matter..
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Author Messages
MichelleC7
(California)

Posts:108


07/07/2012 4:38 PM  
This has been an issue in the past. One of our residents and board members has a very friendly dog that has been seen NUMEROUS times off the leash within out buidling.

The issue is that this person has been notified over and over again, but alas she is on the board and witnessed accounts and documentation of her dog off the leash has gone NOWHERE. The board was put on notice as was the management if this continued animal control would be notified.

Multiple people are willing to sign a witness attestation stating the above. I really feel this is the last straw here.

Today this friendly dog was seen running around by the pool with the owner behind it ( dog off leash ) calling its name. The other day I heard her asking the cleaning person if she saw the dog as it was "lost".

I dont' have the time nor energy to go against a board that has no desire to fix one of it's own.. is it time for animal control? I can provide photos of this situation. and documentation of sightings including witnesses..

Yes, our city does have authority within the complex as far as having unleashed dogs... it's been researched and confirmed.
CarolR11


Posts:0


07/07/2012 5:00 PM  
You write that the person has been "notified" over & over again. by whom?

Have you & the many others sent a letter, signed by all, to all members of the Board asking that this rule (assuming it is a rule) be enforced? Or sent the same letter to your property mgr.? Have one or more of you brought this up at your open board meetings demanding enforcement of the rule? ?

If you all have have done this to no avail, sure call animal control.

(You're right, it doesn't matter one bit that the dog is friendly.)
PeachesP1
(Alabama)

Posts:2


07/07/2012 5:31 PM  
Not a good idea to let your precious pet take chances. If the owner was really responsible, assuming there are leash laws, he would follow the rules, like everyone else, and safely walk him where he wishes within reason of course. Not all pet owners are responsible though. In my HOA, the whole BOD's are "the chosen few." Don't know why it is always one person who lets it go to their head. My idea of being a great board member is to DO, what is in the best interest of the whole community, NOT just the boards best interest! It is unfortunate, and sad to see a board member break the rules, just because he is a board member. I say, sorrowfully, for the "friendly lil pooch, warn the owner one last time then, call animal control. Good luck!
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


07/07/2012 8:04 PM  
contact animal control.

an unsupervised dog (I won't go into leashes, voice commands, etc., because I have seen far too many idiots with their dogs roaming unsupervised on one of those 25 foot tether lines, and I drive past border collies herding sheep every day this summer, who are under complete control of a shephard 1000 feet away) is a danger to himself first and foremost.

If it makes you feel better, remember that the life you save by calling could be the dog's. Unsupervised, it could fall into the pool, and drown. Down the stairs, and be injured. It could rush out into the street, and be hit by a car. It could run towards a more alpha dog, who IS on a leash, and be attacked, bitten, or killed (bottom line, your unleashed dog tries to attack my leashed dog, you are in the absolute legal wrong). I don't care how friendly it is, if a child corners that dog, or steps on it accidentally, or even kicks it intentionally, and it bites the child, who do you think is in the wrong? The unattended dog, that's who.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4922


07/08/2012 12:47 AM  
I agree with BrianB. Contact animal control as it is NOT an HOA duty to enforce. I would take what he said about the dog dangers and tell a story of the "Endangered dog". Maybe that will give a hint to the owner what they are doing.

I am annoyed by people who let their dogs off leash. I have 2 dogs myself. It scares me to have my leashed dogs meet an unleashed one no matter how "good" they are. Dog's can sense a dog on a leash and natural tendancies can kick in. My one dog won't go 2 feet if his leash/colar falls off by accident. He comes straight back to me to put it on. That is not to say I don't let them out without a leash sometimes. It just in the fenced yard or out in the country in a huge field. Otherwise they are on leashes like the law says. I know the dangers I would put them in otherwise and myself.


Former HOA President
JM10
(California)

Posts:483


07/08/2012 6:19 AM  
Posted By MichelleC7 on 07/07/2012 4:38 PM
This has been an issue in the past. One of our residents and board members has a very friendly dog that has been seen NUMEROUS times off the leash within out buidling.

The issue is that this person has been notified over and over again, but alas she is on the board and witnessed accounts and documentation of her dog off the leash has gone NOWHERE. The board was put on notice as was the management if this continued animal control would be notified.

Multiple people are willing to sign a witness attestation stating the above. I really feel this is the last straw here.

Today this friendly dog was seen running around by the pool with the owner behind it ( dog off leash ) calling its name. The other day I heard her asking the cleaning person if she saw the dog as it was "lost".

I dont' have the time nor energy to go against a board that has no desire to fix one of it's own.. is it time for animal control? I can provide photos of this situation. and documentation of sightings including witnesses..

Yes, our city does have authority within the complex as far as having unleashed dogs... it's been researched and confirmed.





I have to say that my two dogs were off-leash when they were young at our former condo, but usually only in the early morning and late evenings and were limited to the lawn area in the back.

Friendly, of course, doesn't matter.

Complaints should be in writing and should be specific. In our CC&R the board is required to acknowledge and discuss written complaints. The board member in question should recuse his/herself.

I would actually question why a dog or any animal would be allowed near the pool.

The on-leash CC&R should be enforced for all pets--cats and dogs.

I would ask the board to officially address it by sending a written complaint. The more people who send in a complaint the better.

If you've already done that, then I'd call animal control, but animal control needs to get there when the animal is actually out and about and be able to round the animal up. They usually give the owner a first warning.

In this economic climate, however, many cities have cut back on their animal control staff. So if you're in a city like Los Angeles or LA-county, good luck.

It's unfortunate that animals have to suffer when their owners are negligent.
MichelleC7
(California)

Posts:108


07/08/2012 10:13 AM  
Thank you all. I have as a couple of other units in the complex put this person on warning of all things last SUMMER! I found the certified letter I sent to our managment company telling them that since they are not willing to enforce or neither is our board..

We are going to be taking pictures of these incidents and releasing them to Animal Control. My spouse is also disabled, with a cane and doesn't like the idea of a dog running uncontrolled around his feet.

If he fell.. where would that lead us.

CarolR11


Posts:0


07/08/2012 10:18 AM  
Sorry, Michelle, i cannot follow your first paragraph.

But . . . is there a reason why you & others who're concerned do not complain about this problem during the Open Forum portion of your board meetings? You probably know that Open Forum is required in CA.

As I and another poster suggested, the more who complain, the better!
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1111


07/08/2012 10:27 AM  
Michelle,

You can call the Dog Catcher to handle the situation. I've seen most animal control officers to be upfront w/ pet owners, regardless of HOA board status. There's nothing the board can do over matters of law to circumvent your protection.
MichelleC7
(California)

Posts:108


07/08/2012 10:29 AM  
Posted By CarolR11 on 07/08/2012 10:18 AM
Sorry, Michelle, i cannot follow your first paragraph.

But . . . is there a reason why you & others who're concerned do not complain about this problem during the Open Forum portion of your board meetings? You probably know that Open Forum is required in CA.

As I and another poster suggested, the more who complain, the better!



Our board does not allow any comments that are away from the agenda during open forum. Meaning.. they control the agenda as does the dogs owner.. Hope that makes sense.

I work evenings. I am not going to take a day off of work to discuss this and then be dissed as thisi s not "on the agenda".

Homeowners are not able to get anything on the agenda, it's set up by the board.

Animal Control is the only option I think at this point. I can an will provide pictures. Just this week alone I have seen the mutt of the leash twice.
MichelleC7
(California)

Posts:108


07/08/2012 10:30 AM  
Posted By MichelleC7 on 07/08/2012 10:29 AM
Posted By CarolR11 on 07/08/2012 10:18 AM
Sorry, Michelle, i cannot follow your first paragraph.

But . . . is there a reason why you & others who're concerned do not complain about this problem during the Open Forum portion of your board meetings? You probably know that Open Forum is required in CA.

As I and another poster suggested, the more who complain, the better!



Our board does not allow any comments that are away from the agenda during open forum. Meaning.. they control the agenda as does the dogs owner.. Hope that makes sense.

I work evenings. I am not going to take a day off of work to discuss this and then be dissed as thisi s not "on the agenda".

Homeowners are not able to get anything on the agenda, it's set up by the board.

Animal Control is the only option I think at this point. I can an will provide pictures. Just this week alone I have seen the mutt of the leash twice.



Meetings are actually opened.. Open forum.. does anyone have any questions regarding the agenda or comments? We will only listen to items on the agenda..
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1111


07/08/2012 10:36 AM  
Michelle,

If there's a leash ordinance covering your neighborhood - a city law - then there's is zero need to attend the HOA meeting to vent. It's purposeless. The HOA board member knows exactly how she's behaving but doesn't think her pooch is a threat. We humanize our "babies" a lot and don't realize that others may be fearful of loose beasts on the property.
MichelleC7
(California)

Posts:108


07/08/2012 10:47 AM  
Posted By KellyM3 on 07/08/2012 10:36 AM
Michelle,

If there's a leash ordinance covering your neighborhood - a city law - then there's is zero need to attend the HOA meeting to vent. It's purposeless. The HOA board member knows exactly how she's behaving but doesn't think her pooch is a threat. We humanize our "babies" a lot and don't realize that others may be fearful of loose beasts on the property.



Thanks Kelly M It wasn't until the weather is conducive that I noticed the dog issue again..In review of the records and emails with a documented list of dates, times, witnesses etc this person was warned over a year ago.

I feel that really myself and the few others involved have tried. It's obvious its on deaf ears. Will let the city take care of this. Pictures are worth a thousand words.. just make sure they include time and date stamps.
CarolR11


Posts:0


07/08/2012 11:34 AM  
Meantime, Michelle, even though you cannot attend your HOA meetings, maybe the others whom you've mentioned can. There SEEM to be a number of problems with your Board. But perhaps directors are ignorant about the below. See especially paragraph 3 below:

You & they should know that the board may NOT restrict Open forum to agenda items.

"OPEN FORUM
As provided for in the "Open Meeting Act," association members have the right to speak at open meetings of the board. Civ. Code §1363.05(h). This is commonly referred to as the "Open Forum" portion of the meeting. Members have a right to observe the conduct of the boards business but they do not have a right to participate in the meetings. This is the same rule followed by municipalities.

Time Allocation. The only time members have a right to participate in meetings is during the "open forum" portion of an open (non-executive session) meeting (Civ. Code §1363.05(i)) and only for a reasonable time established by the board. Members can ask questions but directors are limited in how they can answer them.

Unreasonable Rules. Boards cannot create unreasonable rules that would stifle homeowners' right to address the board. There is no limit on the number of topics owners may address during Open Forum. The Open Meeting Act allows the board to establish reasonable time limits, but there is no limit on the number of topics. Civ. Code §1363.05(h)."


Read more: Open Forum http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/OpenForum/tabid/1295/Default.aspx#ixzz203PSv2m0
from Davis-Stirling.com by Adams Kessler PLC.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4922


07/08/2012 12:24 PM  
I say the next time the dog is loose and they are not around...Take the dog and hide it...Give them a few minutes or an hour or two of panic to realize the danger they put their dog in...Funny if they call animal control they have to admit it was off leash when it was "lost"....

This is bad advice of course, but it may be the only way to get the message through...

Former HOA President
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5205


07/08/2012 12:40 PM  
Either that or claim you were scared the dog was vicious and hit it with a dose of pepper spray; on the body not the face, maybe if she has to keep washing the dog, she'll get the message.

"Common sense is like deodorant--the people who need it most never use it."
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


07/08/2012 2:29 PM  
if you switch the target of your aim to the owner, i love the pepper spray. I hate to punish the animal, it has no idea what it is doing is wrong or unsafe. the owner does.

Oh my gosh, I totally meant to just keep that dog away, i am SUCH a lousy aim with this thing. I never knew it would go that direction, I must have triggered it wrong. I am SOOOO sorry, Mrs Hildebrand, so sorry.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4922


07/08/2012 3:00 PM  
LOL!!! We are getting sooo mean now...Pepper spraying dogs or owners? Okay, I did state to kidnap it... This is a free country let the dog roam free!!! Free I say!!! Us HOA people need to get a life and leave poor dogs alone...LOL!!! Just having some fun....

Former HOA President
MichelleC7
(California)

Posts:108


07/08/2012 4:44 PM  
You guys made me smile. thank you! LOL As bad as it sounds, I carry pepper spray on my keyring. I have NO intention of using it.. unless I HAVE TO!
CarolR11


Posts:0


07/08/2012 5:21 PM  
Melissa & Glen; I love your deviously clever solutions!
JM10
(California)

Posts:483


07/09/2012 5:25 AM  
I agree with Carol. You have several problems with your board.

1. The open forum.
2. Request for resolution: Section 1369.520
3. Enforcement and fines.

I do not know if you HOA has a fine schedule, but most should.

As I mentioned above, many animal control venues have been hit by these economic times. Many require that they actually catch the animal and owner in violation. Calling the city animal control doesn't mean they will respond immediately. If you can find a pattern, then you can tell them and if they have the person-power, they usually try to get there.

In a request for resolution, the board is required by California civil code to respond and meet to discuss.

I also agree with the person who posted that it is also a matter of the safety of the animal.

I know some suggestions were made in jest, but be sure that no one decides to add stolen property or assault to the list of problems. I've even seen animal control taken to court when they caught a dog out and off-leash because the dog wandered back to the property when they caught up with it.

It would be interesting to hear what the other dog owners think as well.

Sometimes just spraying an animal with water is enough to get the owner's attention and to let the animal know it shouldn't be in some areas. The pool, IMHO, is one of those places. Also, I lived in a small community with dogs and cats that ran loose (from one household) and this resulted in a problem for everyone--everyone else had to pick up the poop for the owners. So I'd emphasize dogs AND cats. Midnight cat courtship is a good time to get up and spray animals with water.


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